Guest guest Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 Jim HCG can make Estradiol levels go up this is way I told you about it. You let us know if it's high are you taking Zinc I think I told you about this taking ZMA at bedtime gives you Zinc and adding 2 mgs of Copper in the noon meal helps keep the Zinc from lowering your Copper levels. Taking Zinc helps keep your testis healthy and holds down Estradiol levels some. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jim <virtuosa150@...> > Subject: Re: Melatonin > > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 1:16 PM > My adrenals haven't been tested of > late. The last time the PM levels we at the bottom of the > normal range. I started working out in the PM the last 2 > weeks at low volume. I can't see this as a problem. > > I was to see Dr. O and HAN and they think I overshot my T > and E2 levels since starting on hcg. It was cut back. I'm > having the usual ED, low libido, etc. that goes with E2. I'm > going for bloodtests tomorrow. I think my E2 is high. It was > low before hcg. I had a lot of joint aches and tendonitis. I > don't have that presently. Last night I was hot as hell. > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing results. > I'm having a hell of time with my sleep. Can melatonin be > used long term? > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 HAN and Dr.O didn't think I needed ZMA just yet. We'll know after I get my blood tests. > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing results. > > I'm having a hell of time with my sleep. Can melatonin be > > used long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 Phil, I used songs for years. The VA gave it to me in buckets for panic and pts issues from Vietnam. I still use it as needed which is rarely anymore. It can be very addicting psychologically. You are taking a small dose and it let's you sleep. That's the important thing. I've been using Ambien every nite for over a decade for sleep issues. You are only suppossed to use it short term but the VA shrink gives it to me for over ten years. I am a terrible insomniac. An ambien and 3 mg of melatonin and a hearty glass of my homemade red wine usually puts me to sleep in short order which I consider a gift. Cheers, Rob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: Melatonin > > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:03 AM > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing results. I'm > having a hell of time with my sleep. Can melatonin be used > long term? > > > > I have various sleep disorders and have tried many > drugs. Melatonin did nothing for me except give me a > headache in high dose. I tried 1 mg to 18 mg. I > did find two drugs that put me to sleep with no adverse side > effects. They are Luneata and oxycodone, both > prescription drugs. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 I've used melatonin previously (1 or 2 mg) for about 2 weeks and it didn't seem to do anything for me. I believe it was Dr. Thierry Hertoghe in Suzanne Somers' book " Breakthrough " who stated that melatonin reduces cortisol. I take L-tryptophan (which becomes serotonin and then melatonin) as needed, and I notice its effect after an hour and a half at a dose of 2,000 mg. When I remember to take it, I fall asleep and stay asleep, compared to Trazodone, which would knock me out for 3-4 hours at most. In the same book I mentioned, Dr. Prudence Hall and Dr. Liebowitz mention melatonin as an aromatase inhibitor. It would be interesting if this is yet another benefit of melatonin. To date, I haven't found any studies to confirm melatonin's role as an aromatase inhibitor. ~Xian > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing results. I'm > > having a hell of time with my sleep. Can melatonin be used > > long term? > > > > > > > I have various sleep disorders and have tried many > > drugs. Melatonin did nothing for me except give me a > > headache in high dose. I tried 1 mg to 18 mg. I > > did find two drugs that put me to sleep with no adverse side > > effects. They are Luneata and oxycodone, both > > prescription drugs. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Well they know what they are doing I am not a Dr. but from what I have read about Zinc we all need it we don't get it from are meat we eat it's all corn fed. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jim <virtuosa150@...> > Subject: Re: Melatonin > > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 6:37 PM > HAN and Dr.O didn't think I needed > ZMA just yet. We'll know after I get my blood tests. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing > results. > > > I'm having a hell of time with my sleep. Can > melatonin be > > > used long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 I believe they want to see how I respond to the reduction in hcg before adding ZMA. I specifically asked them about ZMA. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing > > results. > > > > I'm having a hell of time with my sleep. Can > > melatonin be > > > > used long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Hi Rob, The Xanax I use was for Panic Attacks I had them for yrs. until I figured out it was due to the high Estradiol E2 levels I had from being on TRT. Once I got them down the Panic Attacks stopped. Problem is once you have them you can get set off easy. So I take this low dose not to help me sleep but to keep me from having a panic attack. I can have a bad dream and wake in one. Just last night I was watching a show and this guy had his Daughter Duck Tape him to a chair and over his mouth. She then was leaving him like this. He is wright a book and needed to get into the character. Just seeing her leave I felt Panic and broke out in a sweat. Once you have them anything can set you off but the idea of high Estradiol levels doing this was unheard of. Yet I have told a lot of men about this and they would have the same problem and getting there Estradiol levels down they felt better and would sleep better. Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: rayr_us <ray89012@...> > > Subject: Re: Melatonin > > > > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:03 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing results. > I'm > > having a hell of time with my sleep. Can melatonin be > used > > long term? > > > > > > > I have various sleep disorders and have tried many > > drugs. Melatonin did nothing for me except give me > a > > headache in high dose. I tried 1 mg to 18 mg. I > > did find two drugs that put me to sleep with no > adverse side > > effects. They are Luneata and oxycodone, both > > prescription drugs. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Xian, What brand tryptophan are you using? Do you take this 1.5 hr. before sleep? That trazodone is some heavy stuff isn't it? > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing results. I'm > > > having a hell of time with my sleep. Can melatonin be used > > > long term? > > > > > > > > > > I have various sleep disorders and have tried many > > > drugs. Melatonin did nothing for me except give me a > > > headache in high dose. I tried 1 mg to 18 mg. I > > > did find two drugs that put me to sleep with no adverse side > > > effects. They are Luneata and oxycodone, both > > > prescription drugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 This may just be a coincidence but since I started adding additional sea salt I believe my sleep has gone down hill. I'm having my aldosterone and renin retested. They were 3 months ago: aldosterone 14.5 range 1-16 renin 2.4 range .15- 2.3 my cortisol profile showed normal range morning then low the rest of the day. My blood pressure is always low to normal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing > > > results. > > > > > I'm having a hell of time with my sleep. Can > > > melatonin be > > > > > used long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Thanks Phil. I am working w HAN and Doctor O on similar issues. Recent blood work shows my vitamin levels are very low even tho I have been taking supplements for years. HAN believes my thyroid is all screwed up and causing these problems. Which may be related to my hypogonadism, which I believe I have had my entire life. It really sucks that I had to wait 63 years to find this all out. If it wasn't for HAN and Dr. O, I never would have learned about my problem. But better late than never. I am really disgusted with all the doctors I have seen over the years who didn't know jack shit about all this stuff. Just last week my URO told me not to worry about high estradiol. Told me it was good for me. Wants me to have a prostate biopsy as I had a PSA of 4.2 recently. Told me it is probably elevated from taking andogel for four years. Said it was like putting gasoline on a fire. It is pathetic that I know more about hypogonadism than my URO does. Forgive my rant. Have a good day. Rob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: Melatonin > > > > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:03 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing results. > I'm > > having a hell of time with my sleep. Can melatonin be > used > > long term? > > > > > > > I have various sleep disorders and have tried many > > drugs. Melatonin did nothing for me except give me > a > > headache in high dose. I tried 1 mg to 18 mg. I > > did find two drugs that put me to sleep with no > adverse side > > effects. They are Luneata and oxycodone, both > > prescription drugs. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 It is best to do your Sea Salt first thing in the morning your A and R levels look fine to me if you fasted from adding salt to your food a few days before doing your labs. I add a 1/2 a tsp of Pink Sea Salt to a 27oz canteen with a cup of G-2 and water the drink this when I go work out keeps me going. I don't do any Sea Salt after 4pm. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jim <virtuosa150@...> > Subject: Re: Melatonin > > Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 10:16 AM > This may just be a coincidence but > since I started adding additional sea salt I believe my > sleep has gone down hill. > > I'm having my aldosterone and renin retested. > > They were 3 months ago: > aldosterone 14.5 range 1-16 > renin 2.4 range .15- 2.3 > my cortisol profile showed normal range morning then low > the rest of the day. My blood pressure is always low to > normal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin > that is seeing > > > > results. > > > > > > I'm having a hell of time with my > sleep. Can > > > > melatonin be > > > > > > used long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 I loved what you said dam good to here after all them yrs. you doing better and you know it's not all in your head. Your story is much like mine of all the yrs I have been on TRT being told my Testis don't work. I now know this is not true it's my Pituitary that does not work. Now I treat all my low and low normal Hormones. I just started on Growth Hormone and Wow I am doing great on this. My Story for the ones that have not read it. http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239 Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > From: rayr_us <ray89012@...> > > > Subject: Re: Melatonin > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:03 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing > results. > > I'm > > > having a hell of time with my sleep. Can > melatonin be > > used > > > long term? > > > > > > > > > > I have various sleep disorders and have tried > many > > > drugs. Melatonin did nothing for me except give > me > > a > > > headache in high dose. I tried 1 mg to 18 mg. > I > > > did find two drugs that put me to sleep with no > > adverse side > > > effects. They are Luneata and oxycodone, both > > > prescription drugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 oops. I only fasted from the night before. I didn't know I needed it for several days. Why don't you do salt after 4 pm? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin > > that is seeing > > > > > results. > > > > > > > I'm having a hell of time with my > > sleep. Can > > > > > melatonin be > > > > > > > used long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 It energizes me keeps me up. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jim <virtuosa150@...> > Subject: Re: Melatonin > > Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 11:25 AM > oops. I only fasted from the night > before. I didn't know I needed it for several days. > Why don't you do salt after 4 pm? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using > melatonin > > > that is seeing > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > I'm having a hell of > time with my > > > sleep. Can > > > > > > melatonin be > > > > > > > > used long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Maybe this is the problem. I take about 1/4 tsp. anywhere around 2:00- 4:00 pm. I not going to take any in the afternoon today and see how I sleep. As always, thanks for your help and knowledge. Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using > > melatonin > > > > that is seeing > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > I'm having a hell of > > time with my > > > > sleep. Can > > > > > > > melatonin be > > > > > > > > > used long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Thanks for sharing. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: Melatonin > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:03 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing > results. > > I'm > > > having a hell of time with my sleep. Can > melatonin be > > used > > > long term? > > > > > > > > > > I have various sleep disorders and have tried > many > > > drugs. Melatonin did nothing for me except give > me > > a > > > headache in high dose. I tried 1 mg to 18 mg. > I > > > did find two drugs that put me to sleep with no > > adverse side > > > effects. They are Luneata and oxycodone, both > > > prescription drugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 I've had a sleep disorder for over 20 years. I used Melatonin, and it helped. After using it a while, I developed extreme daytime fatigue and depression. Stopped when I quit. Re-appears when I try it again. IMO, this is a serious hormone and shouldn't be taken lightly. > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing results. I'm having a hell of time with my sleep. Can melatonin be used long term? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 I don't want to get in the middle of this they must have a reasion for this that is above what I know about this. Everyone is not the same when a Dr. told me they wanted to lower my dose to control my Estradiol levels I crashed. But thats me and a lot of other men I have talked to and we were not just starting on TRT. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jim <virtuosa150@...> > Subject: Re: Melatonin > > Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 9:29 AM > I believe they want to see how I > respond to the reduction in hcg before adding ZMA. I > specifically asked them about ZMA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that > is seeing > > > results. > > > > > I'm having a hell of time with my > sleep. Can > > > melatonin be > > > > > used long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Dave you are right my levels were low when I tested this that is my only reasion for trying it. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Dave <dcbaden@...> > Subject: Re: Melatonin > > Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 12:37 PM > I've had a sleep disorder for over 20 > years. I used Melatonin, and it helped. After > using it a while, I developed extreme daytime fatigue and > depression. Stopped when I quit. Re-appears when > I try it again. IMO, this is a serious hormone and > shouldn't be taken lightly. > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing results. I'm > having a hell of time with my sleep. Can melatonin be used > long term? > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 good call jim, ZMA should work nicely provided thyroid is optimal other wards zinc with not uptake into intestinal tract resulting in funcitonal zinc deficiency, but one also needs melatonin for zinc absorption as well so one could start out of 500 mcg of time released which would not be a bad starting recommended dose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing > > > results. > > > > > I'm having a hell of time with my sleep. Can > > > melatonin be > > > > > used long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Jim, I take Optimized Tryptopure from Life Extension (http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01202/Optimized-TryptoPure-Plus.htm\ l) . I take it seconds before my last meal of the day (which is 90 minutes before bed). Trazodone makes me drowsy too, but it didn't keep me asleep longer than 3-4 hours. I would be concerned about combining trazadone and testosterone, seeing that either of them can cause priapism on their own (I rarely hear about testosterone being a culprit, though trazodone's erection-inducing record has led to some off-label use for erectile dysfunction). I would guess that combining the two would increase the chance of priapism. ~Xian > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing results. I'm > > > > having a hell of time with my sleep. Can melatonin be used > > > > long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have various sleep disorders and have tried many > > > > drugs. Melatonin did nothing for me except give me a > > > > headache in high dose. I tried 1 mg to 18 mg. I > > > > did find two drugs that put me to sleep with no adverse side > > > > effects. They are Luneata and oxycodone, both > > > > prescription drugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Thanks Xian for the info. I'll have to pick some of this up. I'm trying timed release melatonin right now. It's not working though. I have my same sleep pattern, asleep by 11:00, waking at 2:00, tossing the rest of the night. I feel like the walking dead. I think I'm going to go to my primary to get some serious meds for this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that is seeing results. I'm > > > > > having a hell of time with my sleep. Can melatonin be used > > > > > long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have various sleep disorders and have tried many > > > > > drugs. Melatonin did nothing for me except give me a > > > > > headache in high dose. I tried 1 mg to 18 mg. I > > > > > did find two drugs that put me to sleep with no adverse side > > > > > effects. They are Luneata and oxycodone, both > > > > > prescription drugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 If your tossing like this get some ZMA the Now brand it helps with this. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jim <virtuosa150@...> > Subject: Re: Melatonin > > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 8:20 AM > Thanks Xian for the info. I'll have > to pick some of this up. I'm trying timed release melatonin > right now. It's not working though. I have my same sleep > pattern, asleep by 11:00, waking at 2:00, tossing the rest > of the night. > > I feel like the walking dead. I think I'm going to go to my > primary to get some serious meds for this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that > is seeing results. I'm > > > > > > having a hell of time with my > sleep. Can melatonin be used > > > > > > long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have various sleep disorders and > have tried many > > > > > > drugs. Melatonin did nothing for > me except give me a > > > > > > headache in high dose. I tried 1 > mg to 18 mg. I > > > > > > did find two drugs that put me to > sleep with no adverse side > > > > > > effects. They are Luneata and > oxycodone, both > > > > > > prescription drugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I spoke to HAN and Dr.O about ZMA when I saw them last. They told me to hold off. I don't know anymore. I about to wig out if I don't get some better sleep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using melatonin that > > is seeing results. I'm > > > > > > > having a hell of time with my > > sleep. Can melatonin be used > > > > > > > long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have various sleep disorders and > > have tried many > > > > > > > drugs. Melatonin did nothing for > > me except give me a > > > > > > > headache in high dose. I tried 1 > > mg to 18 mg. I > > > > > > > did find two drugs that put me to > > sleep with no adverse side > > > > > > > effects. They are Luneata and > > oxycodone, both > > > > > > > prescription drugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Email Hard about it. Co-Moderator Phil > From: jim <virtuosa150@...> > Subject: Re: Melatonin > > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 11:27 AM > I spoke to HAN and Dr.O about ZMA > when I saw them last. They told me to hold off. I don't know > anymore. I about to wig out if I don't get some better > sleep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using > melatonin that > > > is seeing results. I'm > > > > > > > > having a hell of time > with my > > > sleep. Can melatonin be used > > > > > > > > long term? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have various sleep > disorders and > > > have tried many > > > > > > > > drugs. Melatonin did > nothing for > > > me except give me a > > > > > > > > headache in high dose. > I tried 1 > > > mg to 18 mg. I > > > > > > > > did find two drugs that > put me to > > > sleep with no adverse side > > > > > > > > effects. They are > Luneata and > > > oxycodone, both > > > > > > > > prescription drugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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