Guest guest Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 My son (3.5 yrs) and I use it. We started on really tiny doses and worked up. Eight weeks in, my son is just now at the ultimate dose for his age. I still have 3 capsules more to work up to. So far so good. We had die off when we rushed a dose and not otherwise, so I know it's effective for us.We're both doing super on GAPS, including BK, over all.As I've just started GAPS, and view every program as synergistic within itself, I feel most comfortable using only the recommended one. I buy mine through Nutrivene.com I have been happy because my order has taken only two weeks, including through customs.Baden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Thanks for the information. Do you mind me asking how Biokult is different than other probiotics? Is it enteric coated so that the bacteria doesn't die in transit to the US? Tina > > My son (3.5 yrs) and I use it. We started on really tiny doses and worked up. Eight weeks in, my son is just now at the ultimate dose for his age. I still have 3 capsules more to work up to. > > So far so good. We had die off when we rushed a dose and not otherwise, so I know it's effective for us. > > We're both doing super on GAPS, including BK, over all. > > As I've just started GAPS, and view every program as synergistic within itself, I feel most comfortable using only the recommended one. I buy mine through Nutrivene.com I have been happy because my order has taken only two weeks, including through customs. > > Baden > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Hi Tina,On pgs 165-172 of GAPS, NCM makes a case for what makes a good probiotic, with a summary on page 170. Super condensed, the recommended qualities are:range of speciesrange of strainsconcentration of bacteria per gramevery batch testedYou could read through the details in GAPS and select any probiotic matching the criteria. I chose BK because I have enough to do (bone broths, etc) without hunting down other good matches :)When I Googled 'biokult enteric coated', an article came up indicating that BK is not enteric coated, but made a case for why that is not necessary.Hope that helps.BadenDo you mind me asking how Biokult is different than other probiotics? Is it enteric coated so that the bacteria doesn't die in transit to the US? _ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Hi. I have a question about " die-off " . My son and I are new to GAPs. We had been doing SCD for about 4 months with pretty good results, but I felt we could do better. We started the GAPs diet about three weeks ago,and took her probiotic recommendation. I received our order of Bio- Kult about one week ago. Since we started the probiotic, we've both experienced a relapse, his more dramatic. Even though her book discusses the concept of die-off, I keep doubting that as an explanation. What was your experience with " die off " ? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I created a file re: die-off in the GAPSHelp forum.My personal experience: When I started BK, I was fine. When I rushed to 2 caps, I experienced intense die-off (nausea, bloating, etc). When I cut back to a lower dose, I was fine again. When I increased it slowly and properly, I was also fine.What I have heard: That bifidus causes problems for some people. These ones choose a bifidus-free probiotic. However, I don't know if they bothered with the 'low and slow' approach or not.Key: Did you start with 1/10th capsule for your child and 1/4 for yourself, increasing by that amount only every 4-7 days?Baden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Thanks for the response. No, I didn't. I started with the recommended doses where I bought the probiotic of 2 capsules per day. Maybe I missed it in the GAPS book, but I don't remember seeing anything about starting with the doses that you recommended.Should I reduce our doses after the fact? Also, could you direct me to your file re:die-off? I'm new tp groups. I looked under the heading " Files, " and didn't see it. Thanks so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Hi AM,Yes, definitely reduce the doses, effective immediately, right down to a comfortable starting dose. How old is your child? Mine is 3.5 yrs and 1/10th cap (per dose; two of these doses per day) was a safe starting amount for him.The starting/increasing info is on pages 170-171 of GAPs. It doesn't give exact starting amounts. Paraphrased: "Start with a very small amount...If no die-off symptoms, increase...When you see a reaction, stay at that dose until the system settles...Building the dose to therapeutic amounts can take several weeks or months..."Based on that, and knowing how both toxic and sensitive I am, I basically did math assuming we might well need the several months. Since my son should ultimately have 3 capsules per day, I divided this by 16 weeks. That would be about 1/5th cap per day. (1/10th cap morning and 1/10th cap evening.) Nine weeks in, he is just now at 3 caps per day. I am still 2-3 caps short of my ultimate dose.My GAPS files are all on the GAPShelp forum. That group is at GAPShelp/ There you will also find a document called 'Supplement Protocol' which will give you the same starting/increasing info as in the book, plus ultimate number of BK caps according to age.Cheers,Baden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Thanks again. I appreciate your input. According to your math, I was taking 1/5 to 1/4 the ultimate dose, and my son (8 yrs. old) 2/5 to 1/4. Didn't seem like we were just jumping right in, but the real confusion comes from the information published on the websites selling BioKult. I quote their recommendation: For digestive disorders and associated learning disabilities: Children under 12 Years Week 1: 2 per day Week 2: 4 oer day Week 3: 6 per day Weeks 4-11: 6 per day Weeks 12-15: 4 per day Thereafter Maintenance Dose 2 per day Adults Week 1: 2 per day Week 2: 4 oer day Week 3: 6 per day Weeks 4-11: 8 per day Weeks 12-15: 8 per day Thereafter Maintenance Dose 4 per day Given that BioKult was developed by the author, I assumed that the recommendations expounded upon the rather vague description for introducing the probiotics. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 I know --it's very confusing and can be frustrating. There are in fact three completely different dose recommendations: one on the bottle (or, like you said, at the vitamin shop); one on the internet (as you quoted); one on the GAPS supplement protocol. As an adult, and according to GAPS protocol, my ultimate dose is 8-10 capsules. 8 caps divided by 16 weeks is half a cap per dose (two half caps per day), so I'm basically interpreting "start with a small amount" as "start with 1/16th of the ultimate dose" (not even 1/4, as small as that sounds, as this assumes the best case scenario of being able to work up to ultimate within just several weeks). Again, when early on I moved quickly from 1 cap to 2, thinking that was no biggie, I had terrible reactions.Hope you're both feeling better shortly! When I cut back my too-big dose, I felt fine again within a day or two.Baden_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Sorry to jump in - but a question arose as I was reading this. Is it 1/4 of the optimal dose or 1/4 of a capsule? I was thinking it was 1/4 of the capsule? Also, I've read all the Files - thanks for directing me to them Baden. I'm still a little confused about when yogurt can be added. Also, do I start all supplements, in small doses, at the begining of the program. I'm just waiting for my BioKult to arrive and am preparing to begin. Baden - have you found anyone to do the program with. I'm hoping to be ready to begin in about a week or so. > Hope you're both feeling better shortly! When I cut back my too-big dose, I felt fine again within a day or two. > > Baden > _ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 BK starting dose: I'm suggesting a person assume they will be sensitive to probiotics and need "several months" (12-16 weeks) to work up. So, ultimate dose (8 caps for adult) divided by 16 weeks = 1/2 cap per dose to start. One may choose to start with even less, like 1/4 cap, yes.Most of us are confused about when yogurt can be added. There are two sets of info. The book says "in about a year"; NCM's more recent info indicates "after you've removed dairy for a month or so and reintroduced it properly and without problems". At Week 10, I haven't intro'd it yet. I don't miss it.I don't know what NCM recommends for when to intro supplements. I chose to intro my supplements one at a time, starting with Bio-Kult. All supplements start in tiny doses and work up. Exception for fermented CLO, perhaps, as from my read of 's email, it's a tiny amount to begin with!Nope --no takers on my "buddy system" idea! Turns out I didn't need to start my son over anyway. But I would have redone intro if others had indicated desire for buddy.Cheers,Baden Is it 1/4 of the optimal dose or 1/4 of a capsule? I was thinking it was 1/4 of the capsule? Also, I've read all the Files - thanks for directing me to them Baden. I'm still a little confused about when yogurt can be added. Also, do I start all supplements, in small doses, at the begining of the program. I'm just waiting for my BioKult to arrive and am preparing to begin. Baden - have you found anyone to do the program with. I'm hoping to be ready to begin in about a week or so.__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thank you Baden! Tina > > Hi Tina, > > On pgs 165-172 of GAPS, NCM makes a case for what makes a good probiotic, with a summary on page 170. Super condensed, the recommended qualities are: > > * range of species > * range of strains > * concentration of bacteria per gram > > * every batch tested > You could read through the details in GAPS and select any probiotic matching the criteria. I chose BK because I have enough to do (bone broths, etc) without hunting down other good matches > > When I Googled 'biokult enteric coated', an article came up indicating that BK is not enteric coated, but made a case for why that is not necessary. > > Hope that helps. > > Baden > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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