New to the Group

[Guest guest]

My new Doc is running all the Igenex co-infection

tests on me now. From what I understand I tested

Negative for Babesia earlier, but I guess my old doc

did not test for the ones that are on the west coast

(Uh, I live in california).

Thank you for your input.

Hope your daughter is 100% =).

--- jblral <jblral@...> wrote:

> Joe: Has your LLMD evaluated you for coinfections?

> Even though she

> tested negative for bartonella, my daughter's doc

> suspected she had

> it. When he started treating her for it anyway, she

> showed a big burst

> of improvement.

>

> Also, I've come to believe that it's very important

> to address

> detoxification issues. As one doctor put it: " The

> body of a

> chronically ill person is like New York City during

> a garbage strike. "

>

> Sorry you've suffered so much. Best of luck to you.

>

> D.

>

[Guest guest]

You also need to do research on the treatment you are currently on.

For learning common treatment ideas: I would start at

_http://www.ilads.org/_ (http://www.ilads.org/)

There is a herb book, Healing Lyme by Buhner, that is pretty popular. I

give my son digestive enzymes with his minocycline to help " uncloak " the lyme.

I give him his minocycline in the morning and a bunch of herbs in the

evening. He is living as normals, whereas before he was autistic. Start by

researching the meds you are on. For example, I researched minocycline and

found

out that it will make your thyroid and bones grey unless you take Vitamin C

daily, and that it won't work well if you take it at the same time that you

take

minerals. Thus, research because docs don't tell you these things. Some

things I do are methyl B12 powder, epsom-salt cream, multivitamin, chewable

folic acid, niacin (flush-type only), extra D3, digestive enzymes, buffered

Vit.

C, turmeric, ginger root, milk thistle, modified citrus pectin, cod liver

oil. Most of this is stuff I learned before I learned it was lyme making us

all sick. Thus, I am researching lyme now, and will be changing things after I

learn more. But this gets us living as normals.

Heidi N

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

Are you aware of the California Lyme group? Great for connecting

with others in your region.

CaliforniaLyme/

>

> > Joe: Has your LLMD evaluated you for coinfections?

> > Even though she

> > tested negative for bartonella, my daughter's doc

> > suspected she had

> > it. When he started treating her for it anyway, she

> > showed a big burst

> > of improvement.

> >

> > Also, I've come to believe that it's very important

> > to address

> > detoxification issues. As one doctor put it: " The

> > body of a

> > chronically ill person is like New York City during

> > a garbage strike. "

> >

> > Sorry you've suffered so much. Best of luck to you.

> >

> > D.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Joe,

I had Lyme (still have it, as you never totally get rid of it), but

no symptoms for over 2 years now. Some advice my LLMD gave me is

that you should track your progress every 3 months. Your LLMD

should be looking at your Lyme loads and continue to look for

possible co-infections that may be stopping you from getting well.

You must first treat the co-infection and then the Lyme.

I agree with the other response, you should look at balancing your

traditional LLMD treatment supplemented with a holistic treatment.

Your LLMD should be aware of everything you decide to do regarding

supplemental treatment and should be able to advise you on what

would be best to bolster the anti-biotic treatment.

You must be your own advocate regarding your treatment. Insist,

politely :-) I might add, that your LLMD is trying every possible

avenue of treatment. Keep a log and track your progress every three

months.

Be well,

>

> I've had Lyme for a year now. I didn't know what it was for the

first

> 4 months. I tested positive for Igenex IGG IGM.

>

> I've been on antibiotics for 7 months now and I don't feel like I

am

> going to be well anytime soon. Every time I start getting well I

have

> a relapse.

>

> I feel helpless. I stopped working, thinking that if I took it

easy

> and rested I would have a better chance at eradicating it from my

system.

>

> I've done everything my LLMD has told me to do, and still I'm not

> feeling great.

>

> I don't know what I am supposed to do. Do I go back to work and

hope

> that I can deal with it? I know that it is near impossible to get

> disability with Lyme.

>

> What do the rest of you chronic people do? I know I may never be

able

> to get this into remission, it seems a lot of people aren't able

to.

>

> I don't think I can work a normal job anymore. Do I just spend the

> rest of my money and hope that I get better in time before I run

out

> of money?

>

> At wits End

>

> Joe

>

[Guest guest]

How do you test lyme loads? Is that the CD 57 test?

-------------- Original message --------------

From: LymeAngl@...

In a message dated 12/7/2007 3:25:02 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,

@... writes:

Joe,

I had Lyme (still have it, as you never totally get rid of it), but

no symptoms for over 2 years now. Some advice my LLMD gave me is

that you should track your progress every 3 months. Your LLMD

should be looking at your Lyme loads and continue to look for

possible co-infections that may be stopping you from getting well.

You must first treat the co-infection and then the Lyme.

I agree with the other response, you should look at balancing your

traditional LLMD treatment supplemented with a holistic treatment.

Your LLMD should be aware of everything you decide to do regarding

supplemental treatment and should be able to advise you on what

would be best to bolster the anti-biotic treatment.

You must be your own advocate regarding your treatment. Insist,

politely :-) I might add, that your LLMD is trying every possible

avenue of treatment. Keep a log and track your progress every three

months.

Be well,

[Guest guest]

,

When you said your Doctor checks your Lyme loads, which test are you

referring to and what are recovered Lyme loads supposed to be?

Dagmar

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

Dagmar,

They were the IGenex tests as well as full blood work ups

periodically to check my over all health.

I saw her every six weeks and she would have me first tell her my

progress. After I gave her my details on how I was feeling and

reviewed in detail any anomalies she would THEN tell me if my Lyme

load had gone up or down and what she was expecting me to say after

I told her how I was feeling. She used her 15+ years of clinical

Lyme experience to determine my status before she would go to the

tests. I believe she did this on purpose because none of the tests

are 100% accurate and Lyme is better diagnosed and treated based on

how the patient is feeling and progressing. We all know that Lyme

and its associated diseases can hide so the tests results were used

as a secondary tool to backup her clinical diagnosis and to adapt

her treatment based on my progress.

There are many great people on this board with a wealth of Lyme

experience (diagnosing, testing, treating, etc...). Use them as a

vehicle for your research, but at the end of the day Lyme is a very

specific disease. Every case is different and every individual must

find what works for them. I believe that there is hope that

everyone can find the right treatment but you must be objective and

become your own advocate. I was trapped in the darkness of Lyme for

a long long time, not knowing what was destroying my life and

putting the future of my family at risk. Luckily my wife asked my

GP to run a test for Lyme after I had seen countless specialists and

was severely depressed. LUCKILY I came up positive for Lyme. I

thought my problem was solved until I found out how complicated Lyme

and its associated diseases are. Same old story as many in this

group. The best advice I received from this board was to find a

GREAT LLMD. Someone that has over 10+ years successfully treating

Lyme and interview them as you would interview someone for a job.

If their not interested in answering some questions for you then

their not the doctor you want for this disease. The next best

information was to research a holistic healer who had experience

with Lyme that could help me focus on what would be the best

supplements to bolster the Lyme treatment I was receiving from my

LLMD. Not only to help fight the Lyme but to balance out the abx

treatment. I let all of my healers know that my Lyme LLMD was the

boss and in charge of all of my treatments and that I expected them

to work as a team. I would go into my appointments prepared with a

list of all of my supplements and treatments and my doctor would

review them with me. You should be sure that you have one

quarterback and many other teammates that will assist. Gradually I

added in a protein diet and exercise (as much as I was physically

able because at one point I couldn't get off the couch to go to the

bathroom by myself and had major neuro symptoms).

Sorry for the long winded answer. I just feel strongly that

everyone with Lyme (including myself, my wife and my son Dr.

treated him and got him well!) need to develop an individual plan

that works for them. You need to focus on getting better! Decide

who is going to be your quarterback and teammates and then focus on

seeing results. If you don't see any results then adapt your plan

until you do. Make small modifications at first, don't give up on

one plan and jump to another or you will never see the results your

looking for. I can't tell you what is right for you but I can tell

you I had many times when I didn't see any results and thought there

was no hope. That's when I would modify my plan and over the long

run became fully symptom free. It's not an easy journey but it is a

journey that's worth fighting for!

I owe a debt of gratitude for the good people in this group who

helped me and my family to be symptom free from Lyme for over two

years! Thank you all!

Be well,

>

> ,

>

> When you said your Doctor checks your Lyme loads, which test are

you

> referring to and what are recovered Lyme loads supposed to be?

>

> Dagmar

>

>

>

> **************************************Check out AOL's list of

2007's hottest

> products.

> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?

NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would like to know what led you to the doctor to begin with. Was it symptoms?

If so, what were they?

I'm also hoping that your doctor ran a complete hormonal panel to see what

else may be out of balance besides testosterone. Determining whether its primary

or secondary hypogonadism also determines your treatment. You don't just start

to throw testosterone at the situation.

And please do tell us that they did a PSA test and checked your prostate

before administering testosterone. Giving testosterone to a man suceptable to

prostate cancer is like putting fuel on a fire.

They may also do a bone density scan. There's a direct connection between low

testosterone and osteoporosis. In addition, they may do a MRI on the pituitary

gland (the master hormone gland) to rule out any possible tumors.

This is what they did to me before they started giving me testosterone. My

treatment has varied over the past three years.

I started on patches and gels to no avail. For some people they simply don't

work so monitor your levels and especially your symptoms (if any). Later I moved

to injections and it took me a long time to find a program for me.

But with help from this forum I was able to find something that works for me.

You still have a long road ahead so be patient.

If the patches and gels don't work you'll probably move to injections. Tell

the group what your injection schedule will be. We know what works and what

doesn't through experience although most of us had to learn the hard way.

And if you're not getting anywhere with your doctor you may have to change

doctors. Most of us have probably been to at least 5 doctors before something

worked out. Do not allow your doctor to blame his failures in treatment on you

and tell you to see a shrink like my first doctor.

We are not substitutes for credible medical advice but rather guys with a lot

of experience. I hope we can be of some help.

P.S. I didn't like patches. They didn't work for me and I found it embarrasing

when they fell off at work or at a restaraunt, you see the patch on the floor,

you know its yours, that kind of thing.

venaraoh <chris@...> wrote:

Hi Guys.

I'm 39 and was just recently diagnosed with low T, in the 230 range.

My pcp has prescribed Androderm 5mg patches to me.

I am applying my first patch tonight, and wanted to ask the group how

long I can expect it to take before feeling the benefits (or

negatives) of using the patch.

I've never used anything like this before, so I'm completely clueless.

I've been struggling to loose weight for the past 3 years, and it just

seems to keep piling on. General energy level is very low, as is my

sex drive.

Thank you in advance.

Chris

---------------------------------

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

[Guest guest]

Welcome you landed in the right spot, more test are good, ie

" estrogen " may be your major problem as is indicated by your weight gain.

Estrogen needs fat to store itself, for some unknown at present reason, your

body started producing far more estrogen than you truly need. Estrogen

needs fat to store itself.

Any number of things can upset your hormonal balance, medications and or

mother nature turned me T/E levels

backwards. I needed a bra, and larger clothes, I now use arimidex to keep

my estrogen level down, I think thirty to one, T vs E is good for most. I

imagine yours is close to two T to one E, I use HCG shots to encourage my

testicles to produce more T. It works and keeps my weight in check.

Ascertain you have a good docter, who will work with you over time, six

months to a year, or more, ask questions here to verify what your dock is

doing. Most MD's have little to no training in hormones, my guess would be,

less than ten percent know how to treat your situation, correctly.

kind regards david

New to the group

> Hi Guys.

>

> I'm 39 and was just recently diagnosed with low T, in the 230 range.

> My pcp has prescribed Androderm 5mg patches to me.

>

> I am applying my first patch tonight, and wanted to ask the group how

> long I can expect it to take before feeling the benefits (or

> negatives) of using the patch.

>

> I've never used anything like this before, so I'm completely clueless.

>

> I've been struggling to loose weight for the past 3 years, and it just

> seems to keep piling on. General energy level is very low, as is my

> sex drive.

>

> Thank you in advance.

>

>

> Chris

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi first let me ask did your Dr. do all the testing possable to try to

find our why your levels are so low. If not think about not going on this patch

once you start on TRT it every hard to find out way your so low. Things that

need to be tested are the following. First you need to know if your Primary

meaning your testis are not keeping up or if your secondary meaning your

pituitary gland in your brain is not sending the messages to your testis to make

testosterone if your Estradiol is good at about 20pg/ml and your LH and FSH are

very low this can mean you have a pituitary problem and need an MRI done on it

to rule out a tumor. Also your Liver can be fatty, you can have bad Adrenals

and Thyroid the list is long as to what can make your levels low.

Try and get the following tests done.

This is taken from Dr. 's site at www.allthingsmale.com in TRT: A Recipe

for Success.

• Total Testosterone

• Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA " Free and Loosely Bound " )

• Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)

• DHT

• Estradiol (specify the Extraction Method, or " sensitive " assay for

males)

• LH

• FSH

• Prolactin

• Cortisol

• Thyroid Panel get the following.

* TSH But this lab is only for diagnosis of hypopituitary, NOT to diagnose or

dose your hypo by.

* Free T4 and Free T3 (note the word “free”)

* Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)

* Ferritin (and do stress FERRITIN, not just RBC)

* B-12 & DHEA

* Reverse T3

• CBC

• Comprehensive Metabolic Panel

• Lipid Profile

• PSA (if over 40)

Also I need to tell you Patches are dam old they don't stay on when they do

and you take them off you have a bad red rash that needs a HC cream to help it

heal. You see each moring you put the patch on a different spot so by the time

your back to the first one it may still be a red rash. You will end up with red

marks all over your body.

If you do like I told you here and you find out why and you need to add in

Testosterone then ask your Dr. for Andorge or Testim it's a gel you rub on your

upper arms and shoulders every morning after a shower. You start a a low 5

grams dose so get retested in 2 weeks to be sure the gel is working and it's a

high enough dose. If not you may need more like 10 grams.

Doing this you can see your self feeling better in 2 weeks if the gel is

working. Still it takes time you need your Total and Free T levels up into the

upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man. And you need to keep your

Estradiol " E2 " down between 10 to 30 best at 20 pg/ml some do good at 40. If

you don't keep this in check you will take away from the good the Testosterone

is doing and this can kill your sex life.

venaraoh <chris@...> wrote:

Hi Guys.

I'm 39 and was just recently diagnosed with low T, in the 230 range.

My pcp has prescribed Androderm 5mg patches to me.

I am applying my first patch tonight, and wanted to ask the group how

long I can expect it to take before feeling the benefits (or

negatives) of using the patch.

I've never used anything like this before, so I'm completely clueless.

I've been struggling to loose weight for the past 3 years, and it just

seems to keep piling on. General energy level is very low, as is my

sex drive.

Thank you in advance.

Chris

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Hey - welcome to the group - Yes 230 is low and will make you feel as you

have described. The 5 mg patch is considered by most to be a low dose and a pain

in the ass (no pun intended. The negatives are they have a tendency to cause

skin irritations - mine left a red bullseye where ever I stuck it. Additionally

I did not like having to stick 2 of them on everyday. I did not absorb the T at

all - not to say you won't - we are all different. This is pretty text book by

your PCP to prescribe a low dose easy to use method - it just didn't work for

me. Next tried the gel and still did not get the benefit - I had to go to shots

which I prefer and have had great results. You should begin to see benefits

quickly - within a few days if they work for you. First thing is usually energy

followed by night time erections. Good Luck and keep us posted - it really is a

trial and error process.

Arkansas

venaraoh <chris@...> wrote:

Hi Guys.

I'm 39 and was just recently diagnosed with low T, in the 230 range.

My pcp has prescribed Androderm 5mg patches to me.

I am applying my first patch tonight, and wanted to ask the group how

long I can expect it to take before feeling the benefits (or

negatives) of using the patch.

I've never used anything like this before, so I'm completely clueless.

I've been struggling to loose weight for the past 3 years, and it just

seems to keep piling on. General energy level is very low, as is my

sex drive.

Thank you in advance.

Chris

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Arkansas.

I have to agree that that patches suck it hard. They fall off, leave marks

and they burn my skin... and all of that for nothing so far. No return of

NTEs no increased energy, libido or anything else for that matter.

I have asked to be switched to Androgel, and I now have an rx waiting for me

to pickup after work. I'll give that a try before moving on to more sever

measures.

My pcp will not administer shots, so who do I go to? I have a urologist,

would he be the right guy to ask? I live in the Dallas Texas area, so if

anyone knows a good hormone specialist in the area (thats in - network with

United preferably) please let me know.

Thanks again for the response. This is a frustrating process to go through.

Unlike some, I was actually happy to hear that I had low T. I was happy

because until then I didnt know WHAT was wrong with me. I feel a lot better

knowing there actually IS something wrong, and that it is treatable.

Chris

On 1/23/08, Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote:

>

> Hey - welcome to the group - Yes 230 is low and will make you feel

> as you have described. The 5 mg patch is considered by most to be a low dose

> and a pain in the ass (no pun intended. The negatives are they have a

> tendency to cause skin irritations - mine left a red bullseye where ever I

> stuck it. Additionally I did not like having to stick 2 of them on everyday.

> I did not absorb the T at all - not to say you won't - we are all different.

> This is pretty text book by your PCP to prescribe a low dose easy to use

> method - it just didn't work for me. Next tried the gel and still did not

> get the benefit - I had to go to shots which I prefer and have had great

> results. You should begin to see benefits quickly - within a few days if

> they work for you. First thing is usually energy followed by night time

> erections. Good Luck and keep us posted - it really is a trial and error

> process.

>

> Arkansas

>

> venaraoh <chris@... <chris%40venaro.net>> wrote:

> Hi Guys.

>

> I'm 39 and was just recently diagnosed with low T, in the 230 range.

> My pcp has prescribed Androderm 5mg patches to me.

>

> I am applying my first patch tonight, and wanted to ask the group how

> long I can expect it to take before feeling the benefits (or

> negatives) of using the patch.

>

> I've never used anything like this before, so I'm completely clueless.

>

> I've been struggling to loose weight for the past 3 years, and it just

> seems to keep piling on. General energy level is very low, as is my

> sex drive.

>

> Thank you in advance.

>

> Chris

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Patches also make me break out with a rash and if perspired at all, they would

not stay on. Ended up trying to put more tape on top of that and it still

didn't work. Rash got worse and even though I tried it for one month, there was

not noticeable difference positively. I was diagnosed with 43 T a few weeks ago

and have been on Adrogel, 5 mg. for two weeks and nothing yet. I think the the

dose is too low for me, but I understand that MDs will try a conservative

approach first. I have a feeling I will end up on shots like Dan. I have felt

bad for 5 years so I am really excited about the potential of having a little

more energy, enthusiasm for life, not to mention the ability to get an erection.

Good Luck. P.s. I've done a lot of research in this area since being diagnosed

and I think it is worth the trouble of going to specialist to find out why you

are low.

Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote: Hey - welcome to the

group - Yes 230 is low and will make you feel as you have described. The 5 mg

patch is considered by most to be a low dose and a pain in the ass (no pun

intended. The negatives are they have a tendency to cause skin irritations -

mine left a red bullseye where ever I stuck it. Additionally I did not like

having to stick 2 of them on everyday. I did not absorb the T at all - not to

say you won't - we are all different. This is pretty text book by your PCP to

prescribe a low dose easy to use method - it just didn't work for me. Next tried

the gel and still did not get the benefit - I had to go to shots which I prefer

and have had great results. You should begin to see benefits quickly - within a

few days if they work for you. First thing is usually energy followed by night

time erections. Good Luck and keep us posted - it really is a trial and error

process.

Arkansas

venaraoh <chris@...> wrote:

Hi Guys.

I'm 39 and was just recently diagnosed with low T, in the 230 range.

My pcp has prescribed Androderm 5mg patches to me.

I am applying my first patch tonight, and wanted to ask the group how

long I can expect it to take before feeling the benefits (or

negatives) of using the patch.

I've never used anything like this before, so I'm completely clueless.

I've been struggling to loose weight for the past 3 years, and it just

seems to keep piling on. General energy level is very low, as is my

sex drive.

Thank you in advance.

Chris

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

I originally used my urologist but my personal opinion is you are best with a

Dr. that is willing to work with you (no God complex). Most doctors are willing

to work with you if they are of the opinion you have done your homework and have

valid data to support your request. The sad part is that most doctors go by the

text book result - shich is antiquated because the demand is not there - we are

a small group in the big picture.

I am currently swithching to my PCP because my URO is retiring. He also is

willing to work with me because I have brought him information to back my

request and proven to him I know whats going on when it comes to things like the

affect of too much or too little T, T conversion to estradiol via the aromatase

pathway and the affects of using HCG. All of this information can be found in

the file section of this group. I also monitor and trend my weely dosages and

test results.

The only down side I see to androgel (assuming it works for you - you absorb

it OK) is the cost - it is still very expensive as compared to shots which are

cheap and effective. It really is a matter of being able to pay for it and

personal preference - you need to try it out.

Giving yourself shots is easy to do and can be demonstrated by any of the

nurses or doctors. There are even documents in the file section that shows you

how to.

I can't stress how important it is to monitor E2 (estradiol) as well as total

T. Keep us posted and don't be afraid to ask - this is a very experienced group.

Arkansas

Gunderson <chris@...> wrote:

Thanks Arkansas.

I have to agree that that patches suck it hard. They fall off, leave marks

and they burn my skin... and all of that for nothing so far. No return of

NTEs no increased energy, libido or anything else for that matter.

I have asked to be switched to Androgel, and I now have an rx waiting for me

to pickup after work. I'll give that a try before moving on to more sever

measures.

My pcp will not administer shots, so who do I go to? I have a urologist,

would he be the right guy to ask? I live in the Dallas Texas area, so if

anyone knows a good hormone specialist in the area (thats in - network with

United preferably) please let me know.

Thanks again for the response. This is a frustrating process to go through.

Unlike some, I was actually happy to hear that I had low T. I was happy

because until then I didnt know WHAT was wrong with me. I feel a lot better

knowing there actually IS something wrong, and that it is treatable.

Chris

On 1/23/08, Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote:

>

> Hey - welcome to the group - Yes 230 is low and will make you feel

> as you have described. The 5 mg patch is considered by most to be a low dose

> and a pain in the ass (no pun intended. The negatives are they have a

> tendency to cause skin irritations - mine left a red bullseye where ever I

> stuck it. Additionally I did not like having to stick 2 of them on everyday.

> I did not absorb the T at all - not to say you won't - we are all different.

> This is pretty text book by your PCP to prescribe a low dose easy to use

> method - it just didn't work for me. Next tried the gel and still did not

> get the benefit - I had to go to shots which I prefer and have had great

> results. You should begin to see benefits quickly - within a few days if

> they work for you. First thing is usually energy followed by night time

> erections. Good Luck and keep us posted - it really is a trial and error

> process.

>

> Arkansas

>

> venaraoh <chris@... <chris%40venaro.net>> wrote:

> Hi Guys.

>

> I'm 39 and was just recently diagnosed with low T, in the 230 range.

> My pcp has prescribed Androderm 5mg patches to me.

>

> I am applying my first patch tonight, and wanted to ask the group how

> long I can expect it to take before feeling the benefits (or

> negatives) of using the patch.

>

> I've never used anything like this before, so I'm completely clueless.

>

> I've been struggling to loose weight for the past 3 years, and it just

> seems to keep piling on. General energy level is very low, as is my

> sex drive.

>

> Thank you in advance.

>

> Chris

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Arkansas

6 montrhs ago I switched from my uro to PCP for testestorone

injections and blood work.

Uro had me on 300 mg of T every three weeks. Did not work well. I was

at my PCP for my back pain and talked to him about T. He said Jack I

can do that for you.

It was 3 weeks scince my last shot so he did the blood work. T was

down to 118. We started 200 mg every two weeks. Blood work T was down

to 120 again.

He did a complete T that time and I asked for an E2 which he did. The

E2 was 24.

Went to 600 mg every two weeks. Took two shots to get it all in. I

went back and said Doc lets do 300 every 10 days. He agreed. I have

been doing that now for just over 2 months. Feel better and sex drive

is much better and I don't hit bottom.

After 2 uros and years of T treatment from gels, paches, to shots my

PCP was the guy that got it right.

Conclusion:

Uro's are to worried about cancer and treat to conservitely. Also

being on pain meds for my back made my T drop real fast.

Jack in West Tennessee

> > Hi Guys.

> >

> > I'm 39 and was just recently diagnosed with low T, in the 230

range.

> > My pcp has prescribed Androderm 5mg patches to me.

> >

> > I am applying my first patch tonight, and wanted to ask the group

how

> > long I can expect it to take before feeling the benefits (or

> > negatives) of using the patch.

> >

> > I've never used anything like this before, so I'm completely

clueless.

> >

> > I've been struggling to loose weight for the past 3 years, and it

just

> > seems to keep piling on. General energy level is very low, as is

my

> > sex drive.

> >

> > Thank you in advance.

> >

> > Chris

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hey Jack - sounds like you burn up T very fast - have you ever had a check of

your T shortly after a shot? 300 mg every 10 days is a large dose. Most can get

by with half that much or less. Could be you need that much. Might consider

smaller more frequent shots to help levelize the peak and trough even more. I

shoot 50 mg 2 times a week - I weigh in at 160 #s and this keeps my total T

around 700.

Arkansas

JACKPINNER <jpinner1@...> wrote:

Arkansas

6 montrhs ago I switched from my uro to PCP for testestorone

injections and blood work.

Uro had me on 300 mg of T every three weeks. Did not work well. I was

at my PCP for my back pain and talked to him about T. He said Jack I

can do that for you.

It was 3 weeks scince my last shot so he did the blood work. T was

down to 118. We started 200 mg every two weeks. Blood work T was down

to 120 again.

He did a complete T that time and I asked for an E2 which he did. The

E2 was 24.

Went to 600 mg every two weeks. Took two shots to get it all in. I

went back and said Doc lets do 300 every 10 days. He agreed. I have

been doing that now for just over 2 months. Feel better and sex drive

is much better and I don't hit bottom.

After 2 uros and years of T treatment from gels, paches, to shots my

PCP was the guy that got it right.

Conclusion:

Uro's are to worried about cancer and treat to conservitely. Also

being on pain meds for my back made my T drop real fast.

Jack in West Tennessee

> > Hi Guys.

> >

> > I'm 39 and was just recently diagnosed with low T, in the 230

range.

> > My pcp has prescribed Androderm 5mg patches to me.

> >

> > I am applying my first patch tonight, and wanted to ask the group

how

> > long I can expect it to take before feeling the benefits (or

> > negatives) of using the patch.

> >

> > I've never used anything like this before, so I'm completely

clueless.

> >

> > I've been struggling to loose weight for the past 3 years, and it

just

> > seems to keep piling on. General energy level is very low, as is

my

> > sex drive.

> >

> > Thank you in advance.

> >

> > Chris

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I am a mother of two girls. My 3 year old was recently diagnosed

with

> autism. She has terrible yeast overgrowth which I have been working

> on for the past 2 months. She is on the SC diet, but I'm not having

> much success with it.

>

> I am also breastfeeding my 5 month old baby girl.

>

> I am concerned about my 5 month old having yeast issues as well and

> need to start this program asap! I would like to put my 3 year old

on

> it as well. I have no idea where to start. I am looking for stage 1

> recipes. Ruby is a great eater now, but I have to have things made

> for her and they have to be finger foods or foods she can eat with

a

> spoon.

>

> Is it okay to do this while breastfeeding? I really don't want to

> pass my yeast issues on to the baby.

==>Hi . Welcome to our group. You have come to the right

place to help you with your children.

For you baby and 3 year old see " Candida Treatments for Babies &

Children " ; http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/baby.php

Also see the autism & candida connection articles:

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/menu2_1_1.php

There are no Stage 1 recipes listed, however there are Food Lists:

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/menu2_2.php

One of the most important article is: " Curing Candida, How to Get

Started " ; http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/menu2_8.php

Please Note: My website is still under construction so the recipes

or success stories are not posted yet, however you can find all of

them in our Group's Files (left menu). All the articles are there!

To find articles use the Site Map on my website (left menu) and use

your Edit, Find on this page, function on the top of your browser.

Yes, you can do this program while breastfeeding, except some of the

antifungals, i.e. clove oil, oil of oregano, and Pau D'Arco.

The SC diet contains foods that feed candida.

We are here to help and support you so after reading please get back

to us with questions and concerns. We have a few mothers too, who

will help you.

The best in health, Bee

[Guest guest]

>

> Hello Everyone,

>

> I would like to introduce myself. My name is Amber. I found this

website two days ago after I came to suspect that my health problems

may be caused by candida overgrowth, candida being brought to mind

after my first, but very persistent vaginal yeast infection acquired

about a month ago.

>

> For those who would like to commiserate and for the sake of

potential progress, here are my symptoms:

>

> -chronic fatigue and lethargy

> -extreme thirst (I drink 4-5 liters of water/day to keep my parched

throat, dry eyes and nose, and shriveled fingertips under control)

> -dry skin, patches of flakey rash on my face

> -frequent toothaches

> -extremely heavy periods w/ many large clots

> -constipation

> -constant bloating and gas

> -dark circles under eyes

> -elevated liver enzymes

> -gluten intolerance

> -high cholesterol (I'm only 25 years old and 5'7 " and 125 lbs.)

> -frequent urination (I wake up at least three times every night to

go)

> -very low aerobic endurance, unable to build up through exercise

> -iron deficiency anemia

> -constant hunger

> -poor long-term memory

> -excessive falling hair

> -all muscles tender to the touch

> -dandruff

> -restless leg syndrome

> -frequent insomnia

> -easy bruising

>

>

> I followed a strict vegan diet from age 12 to 18, after which, due

to failing health, switched to faithfully following all of the dietary

principles of the Weston A. Price foundation

<http://www.westonaprice.org/index.html> . My health did improve

markedly (my mental health particularly), however, I still have the

above symptoms in full force.

>

> In the past two days, I have already implemented much of the

program, cutting out grains, fruits, high-carb veggies, nuts, and

seeds. For years I have been consuming a lot of organic butter,

virgin coconut oil, beef liver, homemade bone broths, celtic sea

salt, raw lacto-fermented vegetables, and take cod liver oil, so I am

considering the possibility that the additional restrictions on

carbohydrates, dairy products, and mushrooms, as well as the addition

of anti-fungals in this program will be helpful.

>

> I do have a question for anyone that cares to answer. Has anyone

found any reliable laboratory testing that can provide some concrete

evidence that candida overgrowth is indeed the source of one's health

problems? Also, has anyone worked directly with a health

practitioner that has proven knowledgeable and helpful in regards to

your candida/digestion issues?

==>Hi Amber. Welcome to our wonderful group. There is " no " reliable

laboratory test that conclusively and consistently prove the presence

of candida overgrowth, however tests some have found it in some

people some times. The most reliable test is Dr. Crook's Candida

Questionnaire, found in my main candida article " How to Successfully

Overcome Candida " .

Yes, I too come via the Weston A. Price Foundation, but I wrote my

first candida article over 20 years ago when I was curing my own

candida. My program has evolved and changed significantly over the

years to what it is today, particularly because of WAPF's information

about good fats, oils, etc., and particularly because of The Optimal

Diet created by Dr. Jan Kwasniewski, in Poland, who has been curing

people of heart disease, diabetes, cancer, asthma, etc. for over 30

years; http://homodiet.netfirms.com/

If you are familiar with Weston A. Price you also know that

cholesterol readings are a no issue when it comes to predicting

future health problems, because the cholesterol theory is a total

myth, not based on any truths. Also when your body is trying hard to

heal it is detoxifying and during detoxification cholesterol will

increase as well. Also thyroid problems, caused by candida as well,

will cause cholesterol levels to increase.

I caution you not to change over to this diet too fast, without also

increasing your good fats high enough at the same time, because it

may cause constipation - please see the article " Curing Candida, How

to Get Started " ;

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/menu2_8.php

There are many other members who have come from WAPF as well.

Remember that candida is not cured by killing it off. It is only

cured by building up the immune system so it becomes strong enough

to " make " candida change back into the friendly organism it is

supposed to be. It also takes 1 year of natural healing for every

year you've been unwell, and for most people nowadays that is since

before birth. So it takes time, patience, and persistence on the

program long enough so the body will heal itself.

Take good care.

The best in health, Bee

[Guest guest]

You can try an Organic Acid Test (OAT) from Great Plains Labs. You can

also try to look for a doctor with DAN (defeat autism now) training - they

actually will treat for Candida!

[Guest guest]

What medication(s)? How much are you taking? What were

your lab results (all of them)? Do you have

hypothyroidism or autoimmune thyroiditis? There is no

way we can be as helpful as we can be without this

information.

Peace,

--- deedran <deedranhughes@...> wrote:

> Hello, my name is Deedra. I live in Wisconsin and I

> am 25. I have

> just joined the ground and I have just found out

> within the last week

> that I have hypothyroidism. I have had a large

> increase in weight

> over the past couple of years and have been trying

> so hard to get it

> off with no success. I got a trainer and I just

> couldn't make it

> happen and she is the one that prompted me to see my

> doctor. I have a

> family history of thyroid problems, my Granddaddy

> had Graves Disease.

>

> So I have been on my meds now almost a week and I

> was just curious

> how is it for everyone else. How long before the

> symptoms start to

> die down. I have horrible fatigue headaches and

> muscle soreness along

> with being overweight.

>

> I actually had my thyroid tested back in 2003 and I

> now know, after

> getting a copy of my records from my last doctor,

> that my thyroid was

> low then. It is so frustrating to know that I could

> have already been

> on the road to getting better and getting my life

> back on track but

> my doctor did not pursue it.

>

> Any advice that anyone has to offer I would love to

> hear it. I feel I

> am fighting a lonely battle. My family is all very

> small and doesn't

> understand what I am going through and how hard I

> have been working

> to get nowhere. I have just been the fat sister who

> eats to much or

> isn't active enough when I really do lead a healthy

> and active

> lifestyle.

>

> I look forward to meeting everyone. Have a great

> night.

> Deedra

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

Find them fast with Search.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Deedra!

Welcome, from a fellow Wisconsinite!

is correct. If we know your numbers, we can give you more info.

I think it is criminal that your doctor did not let you know that your

tests a couple of years ago showed you to be hypoT. I just don't get

it. What is going on with these doctors.

This is a great group you will learn a lot. Go to

stopthethyroidmadness.com and Shoman's website at about.com. You

will find a treasure of info.

Keep us posted. Oh, where in WI are you. I am in Milwaukee.

Venizia

-- In hypothyroidism , " deedran " <deedranhughes@...> wrote:

>

> Hello, my name is Deedra. I live in Wisconsin and I am 25. I have

> just joined the ground and I have just found out within the last week

> that I have hypothyroidism. I have had a large increase in weight

> over the past couple of years and have been trying so hard to get it

> off with no success. I got a trainer and I just couldn't make it

> happen and she is the one that prompted me to see my doctor. I have a

> family history of thyroid problems, my Granddaddy had Graves Disease.

>

> So I have been on my meds now almost a week and I was just curious

> how is it for everyone else. How long before the symptoms start to

> die down. I have horrible fatigue headaches and muscle soreness along

> with being overweight.

>

> I actually had my thyroid tested back in 2003 and I now know, after

> getting a copy of my records from my last doctor, that my thyroid was

> low then. It is so frustrating to know that I could have already been

> on the road to getting better and getting my life back on track but

> my doctor did not pursue it.

>

> Any advice that anyone has to offer I would love to hear it. I feel I

> am fighting a lonely battle. My family is all very small and doesn't

> understand what I am going through and how hard I have been working

> to get nowhere. I have just been the fat sister who eats to much or

> isn't active enough when I really do lead a healthy and active

> lifestyle.

>

> I look forward to meeting everyone. Have a great night.

> Deedra

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, Deedra I am so glad you found this group. Many of us here know how you

feel. What meds are you on?

cw

-- New to the Group

Hello, my name is Deedra. I live in Wisconsin and I am 25. I have

just joined the ground and I have just found out within the last week

that I have hypothyroidism. I have had a large increase in weight

over the past couple of years and have been trying so hard to get it

off with no success. I got a trainer and I just couldn't make it

happen and she is the one that prompted me to see my doctor. I have a

family history of thyroid problems, my Granddaddy had Graves Disease.

So I have been on my meds now almost a week and I was just curious

how is it for everyone else. How long before the symptoms start to

die down. I have horrible fatigue headaches and muscle soreness along

with being overweight.

I actually had my thyroid tested back in 2003 and I now know, after

getting a copy of my records from my last doctor, that my thyroid was

low then. It is so frustrating to know that I could have already been

on the road to getting better and getting my life back on track but

my doctor did not pursue it.

Any advice that anyone has to offer I would love to hear it. I feel I

am fighting a lonely battle. My family is all very small and doesn't

understand what I am going through and how hard I have been working

to get nowhere. I have just been the fat sister who eats to much or

isn't active enough when I really do lead a healthy and active

lifestyle.

I look forward to meeting everyone. Have a great night.

Deedra

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

Thanks so much for your help already. I am so glad that I found a group where

people actually talk about why we are here! Ok so first off I live right out

side of Madison. I haven't been in the area long, I am from Kentucky. I moved up

here to go to school a little over a year ago and boy oh boy is it cold and deep

in the IL snow!

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I am on Levothyroxin. The put me on the

50 MCG dosage. My doctor told me he wants to build me into it. I will have more

blood work to determine if it needs to be raised. Is this correct? I hate to

second guess doctors but I don't wanna be led down the wrong path... again.

I have a strong history of hyperthyroidism and Graves Diseases, Dad, Grandaddy

and my late Aunt. My Grandaddy actually lost an eye from Graves disease and have

to have a glass eye most has adult life as they misdiagnosed his many times

before getting it right, by then his eye had bulged so bad they couldn't get it

fixed.

Ok so I think I answered all the questions that were asked. Thanks in advance

for helping me out. I dont like something going on in my body unless I know

every part of it. Have a great day.

Dee

Crystal <sweetnwright@...> wrote:

Oh, Deedra I am so glad you found this group. Many of us here know how

you

feel. What meds are you on?

cw

-- New to the Group

Hello, my name is Deedra. I live in Wisconsin and I am 25. I have

just joined the ground and I have just found out within the last week

that I have hypothyroidism. I have had a large increase in weight

over the past couple of years and have been trying so hard to get it

off with no success. I got a trainer and I just couldn't make it

happen and she is the one that prompted me to see my doctor. I have a

family history of thyroid problems, my Granddaddy had Graves Disease.

So I have been on my meds now almost a week and I was just curious

how is it for everyone else. How long before the symptoms start to

die down. I have horrible fatigue headaches and muscle soreness along

with being overweight.

I actually had my thyroid tested back in 2003 and I now know, after

getting a copy of my records from my last doctor, that my thyroid was

low then. It is so frustrating to know that I could have already been

on the road to getting better and getting my life back on track but

my doctor did not pursue it.

Any advice that anyone has to offer I would love to hear it. I feel I

am fighting a lonely battle. My family is all very small and doesn't

understand what I am going through and how hard I have been working

to get nowhere. I have just been the fat sister who eats to much or

isn't active enough when I really do lead a healthy and active

lifestyle.

I look forward to meeting everyone. Have a great night.

Deedra

[Guest guest]

Pam, welcome to our group. Your story is VERY familiar to many of

us. My own story and yours differ only in minor details. What

medications are you on for PA? Are you feeling any better?

best regards,

sherry z

[Guest guest]

dear Pam,

I too have had two neck surgeries...one in my thirties (before I knew the real

cause) the second about1.5 years ago;;I thought that the early degeneration of

my neck/upper back and low back was that " I must have damaged myself with all of

the athletics I did in my life " .

Since my PA had been so mild (only on my scalp/ears), until the swollen joints

reared their ugly head I had no clue as what was wrong with me!!!...So the

diagnosed took most of my life until it was solved...tell me you

progression......

Dianne