New to the Group

[Guest guest]

, they aren't allowed to NOT do testing. You write a letter to the special ed director and tell him/her that you want your child to be testing for those disorders, some of the symptoms and issues and that you are hereby authorizing such testing. They are REQUIRED BY LAW to do a full individual evaluation within 60 days and then have an ARD with you. I would not wait one more day (well if you are off today you will have to:) to write that letter, they don't have a leg to stand on if they are breaking the law, and they know it. Also look at www.wrightslaw.com. There is a wealth of information on special ed there. He also sounds like he may have some sensory issues, A few mins ago I posted the best website for SPD, I would

go to the questionairre and see if some of those things fit your son, that may be the trick to his eating issues.... I would also go have a sit down conference with the teacher and figure out a better way than to have to do homework and schoolwork when he gets home, obviously there is an issue, and she needs to figure out something else besides sending it home!!!

Carolyn

From: W <jennywatson@...> Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 11:13:18 PMSubject: ( ) New to the group

Hi everyone,My son is 5 and was doing fine, just a little quirky. Then within a week of starting Kindergarten we were getting notes home from his teacher. Mainly that he often doesn't do schoolwork in the classroom, he just sits and fidgets, makes noises, etc. Now she sends his schoolwork home, along with his homework, so we have to fight with him all evening to get it done.They weren't willing to do testing, so I arranged it myself, and his diagnoses are ADHD, anxiety, and "Aspergers - tentative." I sent the report to the school and I'm waiting to hear back.He used to like school but now doesn't, which is a shame, because he's bright and academically inclined. He's on track academically. They seem to teach every concept in Kindergarten by getting the kids to color something, cut it out, and paste it onto something. I think his motor skills (plus a little perfectionism) are making it really hard for him. Also he gets a bad mark

for behavior pretty much every day, for making noises, fidgeting, bumping other kids while lining up in the hallway, etc. I'm not sure he cares any more about his behavior marks, I think he just assumes he will get them.I talked to an advocate yesterday, and hoping that she can get us more from the school, because they've been like a brick wall so far. We're also hoping to find a diet that works for him, although it might be tricky as he has food allergies (plus he's a picky eater, of course). We're hoping to avoid medications as he's very manageable at home (except for the schoolwork issue) and was doing fine in preschool also - the only problem is at school. More about us: my husband and I live in Tennessee. In addition to our son we have two daughters age 3 and 4 who we adopted about 3 months ago, and a foster daughter who is a toddler.I'm looking forward to learning a lot from this

group.

[Guest guest]

You received an excellent reply from Carolyn! Sending the schoolwork

home? That is really horrible! " Oh hey. I'm too lazy to do my job, so

why don't you do it?? " They are really taking advantage of you so far.

I've been in this " game " since my daughter was 2 and now she is in

kindergarten. Learn the law, what he's entitled to, etc. Punishing

Aspie behavior is outrageous and useless obviously. Poor kid! He's

lucky to have a Mom like you who is trying to help him!

Jen

DD 6 yo tomorrow!!

On Monday, January 17,

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> My son is 5 and was doing fine, just a little quirky. Then within a week of

starting Kindergarten we were getting notes home from his teacher. Mainly that

he often doesn't do schoolwork in the classroom, he just sits and fidgets, makes

noises, etc. Now she sends his schoolwork home, along with his homework, so we

have to fight with him all evening to get it done.

>

> They weren't willing to do testing, so I arranged it myself, and his diagnoses

are ADHD, anxiety, and " Aspergers - tentative. " I sent the report to the school

and I'm waiting to hear back.

>

> He used to like school but now doesn't, which is a shame, because he's bright

and academically inclined. He's on track academically. They seem to teach every

concept in Kindergarten by getting the kids to color something, cut it out, and

paste it onto something. I think his motor skills (plus a little perfectionism)

are making it really hard for him. Also he gets a bad mark for behavior pretty

much every day, for making noises, fidgeting, bumping other kids while lining up

in the hallway, etc. I'm not sure he cares any more about his behavior marks, I

think he just assumes he will get them.

>

> I talked to an advocate yesterday, and hoping that she can get us more from

the school, because they've been like a brick wall so far. We're also hoping to

find a diet that works for him, although it might be tricky as he has food

allergies (plus he's a picky eater, of course). We're hoping to avoid

medications as he's very manageable at home (except for the schoolwork issue)

and was doing fine in preschool also - the only problem is at school.

>

> More about us: my husband and I live in Tennessee. In addition to our son we

have two daughters age 3 and 4 who we adopted about 3 months ago, and a foster

daughter who is a toddler.

>

> I'm looking forward to learning a lot from this group.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

--

***The Will Of God Will Never Take You ...

Where the Grace Of God Will Not Protect You***

[Guest guest]

,

Where in TN are you? Your story with your son sounds like ours. Keep pushing them and glad to hear you're seeking an advocate. I wish I had a long time ago. They should be doing a lot more for your son than sending all his work home. If they keep focusing on his behavior and making a big deal because he fidgets etc. then it will begin to be the mail focus. That is how it went for us. Obviously his behavior is affecting his ability to learn so they need to address this.

Hopefully your advocate will guide and help you. But definitely check out wrights-law like Carolyn mentioned and get yourself smarter on Special Ed law.

We've been in TN for 3 1/2 years now and been fighting the whole time. I hope you don't have as hard of time with your little guy. Good luck!ne

From: Carolyn Weisbard <ccweisbard@...>Subject: Re: ( ) New to the group Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 8:49 AM

, they aren't allowed to NOT do testing. You write a letter to the special ed director and tell him/her that you want your child to be testing for those disorders, some of the symptoms and issues and that you are hereby authorizing such testing. They are REQUIRED BY LAW to do a full individual evaluation within 60 days and then have an ARD with you. I would not wait one more day (well if you are off today you will have to:) to write that letter, they don't have a leg to stand on if they are breaking the law, and they know it. Also look at www.wrightslaw.com. There is a wealth of information on special ed there. He also sounds like he may have some sensory issues, A few mins ago I posted the best website for SPD, I would go to the questionairre and see if some of those things fit your son, that may be the trick to his eating issues.... I

would also go have a sit down conference with the teacher and figure out a better way than to have to do homework and schoolwork when he gets home, obviously there is an issue, and she needs to figure out something else besides sending it home!!!

Carolyn

From: W <jennywatson@...> Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 11:13:18 PMSubject: ( ) New to the group

Hi everyone,My son is 5 and was doing fine, just a little quirky. Then within a week of starting Kindergarten we were getting notes home from his teacher. Mainly that he often doesn't do schoolwork in the classroom, he just sits and fidgets, makes noises, etc. Now she sends his schoolwork home, along with his homework, so we have to fight with him all evening to get it done.They weren't willing to do testing, so I arranged it myself, and his diagnoses are ADHD, anxiety, and "Aspergers - tentative." I sent the report to the school and I'm waiting to hear back.He used to like school but now doesn't, which is a shame, because he's bright and academically inclined. He's on track academically. They seem to teach every concept in Kindergarten by getting the kids to color something, cut it out, and paste it onto something. I think his motor skills (plus a little perfectionism) are making it really hard for him. Also he gets a bad

mark for behavior pretty much every day, for making noises, fidgeting, bumping other kids while lining up in the hallway, etc. I'm not sure he cares any more about his behavior marks, I think he just assumes he will get them.I talked to an advocate yesterday, and hoping that she can get us more from the school, because they've been like a brick wall so far. We're also hoping to find a diet that works for him, although it might be tricky as he has food allergies (plus he's a picky eater, of course). We're hoping to avoid medications as he's very manageable at home (except for the schoolwork issue) and was doing fine in preschool also - the only problem is at school. More about us: my husband and I live in Tennessee. In addition to our son we have two daughters age 3 and 4 who we adopted about 3 months ago, and a foster daughter who is a toddler.I'm looking forward to learning a lot from this

group.

[Guest guest]

Yes EPI's can and do cuse Arachnoiditis. Janice

New to the Group

>

>

>

> *Hi,

>

> My name is , and I'm new here. I've been dealing with back problems

> for

>

> 11 years now. This is a recap of what I have been up to:

>

> *

>

>

>

> - *1999 sciatica left leg*

>

> - *1999 herniated disc L5-S1*

>

> - *2000 ruptured disc; partial discectomy*

>

> - *2002 spinal fusion L5-S1*

>

> - *bursitis left hip*

>

> - *bursitis right hip*

>

> - *2009 EMG showed radidiculopathy L5-S1*

>

> - *2009- present pain doctor*

>

>

>

> - *2010 spinal cord stimulator trial; removed after one week. Hated it..

>

> Could not stand constant annoying sensation and feeling of being hooked

> up.

>

> *

>

>

>

> *That's pretty much where I stand right now, but am weaning off morphine

>

> with doctor help. Look fwd. to meeting people, and hopefully find new ways

>

> of treating my problems.

>

> Thanks for letting me join.

>

>

>

> OH

>

> *

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

my son chews too, and when he was mainstreamed in a classroom, he was the only child in the entire school that was allowed to chew gum. it was even on his iep! it really helped him staying calm, his pencils didnt get chewed up anymore and he didnt make any odd noises to disturb the other kids.deborah Sycamore Art StudiosSycamore Art SchoolDeborah GustlinGraphic & Web DesignArt classes for K-12www.sycamoreartstudios.comwww.sycamoreartschool.comHome: 408-710-0892 Business: 408-710-6070From: "suzmarkwood@..." <suzmarkwood@...>To:

Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 5:30:04 AMSubject: Re: ( ) new to the group

Was there something that got your son to stop chewing or you think he just grew out of it? My son still chews a lot and he just turned 11. When I picked him up yesterday from school his sleeve was sopping wet, like you said. It's especially bad when he's on the computer.SuzanneSent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®From: susanne hansen <s_hansen34@...>

Sender:

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:19:25 -0800 (PST)< >Reply

Subject: Re: ( ) new to the group

I'll definitely check into it. My son likes to chew on things. His pens, pencils, his shirt collar or sleeve, or eat paper. He use to chew on his sleeve until it was sopping wet. He's not so bad anymore. He is always getting into trouble for chewing in school. He also has this blanket that he has to have everywhere we go. He calls it his "blanky". He would honestly take it to school if we let him even thought he is 13!! He even tries to take it outside when he goes out to his friend's.

I think a lot of his disruptive behavior in school has to do with sensory issues. He is always fidgeting, tapping, humming, blurting out random words, getting up and walking around. He gets sent to the office daily for these things. We have to figure out what will help. The school did an FBA which was a joke because it didn't address any of this.

Anyway, I'm going on and on again. Sorry, I tend to do that. :)ne>>> From: miss_beehavin_2000 <miss_beehavin_2000@...>> Subject: ( ) new to the group> > Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 3:49 PM>>>>> Hi,>> I have an 8 year old recently diagnosed with aspergers. Honestly, I've known> he was on the spectrum somewhere since about the age of two, but I didn't> want to deal with it (some for of denial).. especially since I am

an O.T.>> He is off the charts gifted in most area with the execption of motor skills.> The public school district refused any services in kinder and 1st other than> a 504 plan as he was gifted (even though he was sitting under his desk, not> making friends, spinning and licking objects during class time). He's now in> a hybird 1/2 montesorri 1/2 homeschool (through a charter company) doing> well with medication and no services.>> It's been a long road and I never know what's next around the corner. But> honestly. I wouldn't take the asperger's out of my son nor would he want it> gone. As is his passion for learning is far beyond a typical child. His> passion for reading, building, creating, tinkering, exploring and so on..> The austism has created both a mind that requires special care and a mind> that is brilliant and independent.>>

Sometimes I wonder if I should have fought the school district more for> services as I read how people are gettings "social skills" groups and 1:1> services.. but.. I don't know. We just started pre algebra at home and we> are starting a social skills group with my insurance next week. I am> confused as maybe he could be getting more. When happens when he ages out of> the montessori?>> Initally what made him perform in school (he refused all handwriting and> most work) was concerta (like a miracle). After a year of performing well, I> took him off and put him on prozac (as he was obssessed with wiping spots> off of floors in public ). Prozac seems to be his saving grace. He has> friends now, he laughs, engages.. a new kid.>> So that is my story. I'm just here for sharing. I would love to meet anyone> near Lake Elsinore, CA with a son near my

age.>> THanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

We're a "gum is allowed" family, here, too!!!!!

Robin

"Normal is just

a cycle

on a washing machine.....">>> From: miss_beehavin_2000 <miss_beehavin_2000@...>> Subject: ( ) new to the group> > Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 3:49 PM>>>>> Hi,>> I have an 8 year old recently diagnosed with aspergers. Honestly, I've known> he was on the spectrum somewhere since about the age of two, but I didn't> want to deal with it (some for of denial).. especially since I am an O.T.>> He is off the charts gifted in most area with the execption of motor skills.> The public school district refused any services in kinder and 1st other than> a 504 plan as he was gifted (even though he was sitting under his desk, not> making friends, spinning and licking objects during class time). He's now

in> a hybird 1/2 montesorri 1/2 homeschool (through a charter company) doing> well with medication and no services.>> It's been a long road and I never know what's next around the corner. But> honestly. I wouldn't take the asperger's out of my son nor would he want it> gone. As is his passion for learning is far beyond a typical child. His> passion for reading, building, creating, tinkering, exploring and so on..> The austism has created both a mind that requires special care and a mind> that is brilliant and independent.>> Sometimes I wonder if I should have fought the school district more for> services as I read how people are gettings "social skills" groups and 1:1> services.. but.. I don't know. We just started pre algebra at home and we> are starting a social skills group with my insurance next week. I am> confused as maybe he could be getting

more. When happens when he ages out of> the montessori?>> Initally what made him perform in school (he refused all handwriting and> most work) was concerta (like a miracle). After a year of performing well, I> took him off and put him on prozac (as he was obssessed with wiping spots> off of floors in public ). Prozac seems to be his saving grace. He has> friends now, he laughs, engages.. a new kid.>> So that is my story. I'm just here for sharing. I would love to meet anyone> near Lake Elsinore, CA with a son near my age.>> THanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Oh ,

Does he have a dx? How horrible.......

Robin

"Normal is just

a cycle

on a washing machine.....">>> From: miss_beehavin_2000 <miss_beehavin_2000@...>> Subject: ( ) new to the group> > Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 3:49 PM>>>>> Hi,>> I have an 8 year old recently diagnosed with aspergers. Honestly, I've known> he was on the spectrum somewhere since about the age of two, but I didn't> want to deal with it (some for of denial).. especially since I am an O.T.>> He is off the charts gifted in most area with the execption of motor skills.> The public school district refused any services in kinder and 1st other than> a 504 plan as he was gifted (even though he was sitting under his desk, not> making friends, spinning and licking objects during class time). He's now

in> a hybird 1/2 montesorri 1/2 homeschool (through a charter company) doing> well with medication and no services.>> It's been a long road and I never know what's next around the corner. But> honestly. I wouldn't take the asperger's out of my son nor would he want it> gone. As is his passion for learning is far beyond a typical child. His> passion for reading, building, creating, tinkering, exploring and so on..> The austism has created both a mind that requires special care and a mind> that is brilliant and independent.>> Sometimes I wonder if I should have fought the school district more for> services as I read how people are gettings "social skills" groups and 1:1> services.. but.. I don't know. We just started pre algebra at home and we> are starting a social skills group with my insurance next week. I am> confused as maybe he could be getting

more. When happens when he ages out of> the montessori?>> Initally what made him perform in school (he refused all handwriting and> most work) was concerta (like a miracle). After a year of performing well, I> took him off and put him on prozac (as he was obssessed with wiping spots> off of floors in public ). Prozac seems to be his saving grace. He has> friends now, he laughs, engages.. a new kid.>> So that is my story. I'm just here for sharing. I would love to meet anyone> near Lake Elsinore, CA with a son near my age.>> THanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Just wondering what happens at the county special ed department?? I haven't heard of this before....

Carolyn

From: <jennywatson@...> Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 9:21:15 PMSubject: Re: ( ) new to the group

We just got the dx over the Christmas break. The school sent the report to the county special ed dept for review. I think they have 40 school days or whatever to do that. Then they'll set up the IEP. We realized there was a problem in late August, but it's taken this long to get the dx. My son's getting pretty indifferent to the discipline points as he averages one each day. I hope it will help with getting him services as he's on track academically. Or maybe they're trying to train him to be a juvenile delinquent - I think there's a shortage of those in this area : ) >>> From: miss_beehavin_2000 <miss_beehavin_2000@...>> Subject: ( ) new to the group> > Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 3:49 PM>>>>> Hi,>> I have an 8 year old recently diagnosed with aspergers. Honestly, I've known> he was on the spectrum somewhere since about the age of two, but I didn't> want to deal with it (some for of denial).. especially since I am an O.T.>> He is off the charts gifted in most area with the execption of motor skills.> The public school district refused any services in kinder and 1st other than> a 504 plan as he was gifted (even though he was sitting under his desk, not> making friends, spinning and licking objects during class time). He's now

in> a hybird 1/2 montesorri 1/2 homeschool (through a charter company) doing> well with medication and no services.>> It's been a long road and I never know what's next around the corner. But> honestly. I wouldn't take the asperger's out of my son nor would he want it> gone. As is his passion for learning is far beyond a typical child. His> passion for reading, building, creating, tinkering, exploring and so on..> The austism has created both a mind that requires special care and a mind> that is brilliant and independent.>> Sometimes I wonder if I should have fought the school district more for> services as I read how people are gettings "social skills" groups and 1:1> services.. but.. I don't know. We just started pre algebra at home and we> are starting a social skills group with my insurance next week. I am> confused as maybe he could be getting

more. When happens when he ages out of> the montessori?>> Initally what made him perform in school (he refused all handwriting and> most work) was concerta (like a miracle). After a year of performing well, I> took him off and put him on prozac (as he was obssessed with wiping spots> off of floors in public ). Prozac seems to be his saving grace. He has> friends now, he laughs, engages.. a new kid.>> So that is my story. I'm just here for sharing. I would love to meet anyone> near Lake Elsinore, CA with a son near my age.>> THanks

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Do you think after they review the report that they will lighten up with the noises and the punishment?

Do the teachers know that he has a dx and that it's just up for review?

Ugh..........so basically, they KNOW that his noises could be/are a part of his issues?

Stay strong. Hugs.

Robin

"Normal is just

a cycle

on a washing machine.....">>> From: miss_beehavin_2000 <miss_beehavin_2000@...>> Subject: ( ) new to the group> > Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 3:49 PM>>>>> Hi,>> I have an 8 year old recently diagnosed with aspergers. Honestly, I've known> he was on the spectrum somewhere since about the age of two, but I didn't> want to deal with it (some for of denial).. especially since I am an O.T.>> He is off the charts gifted in most area with the execption of motor skills.> The public school district refused any services in kinder and 1st other than> a 504 plan as he was gifted (even though he was sitting under his desk, not> making friends, spinning and licking objects during class time). He's now

in> a hybird 1/2 montesorri 1/2 homeschool (through a charter company) doing> well with medication and no services.>> It's been a long road and I never know what's next around the corner. But> honestly. I wouldn't take the asperger's out of my son nor would he want it> gone. As is his passion for learning is far beyond a typical child. His> passion for reading, building, creating, tinkering, exploring and so on..> The austism has created both a mind that requires special care and a mind> that is brilliant and independent.>> Sometimes I wonder if I should have fought the school district more for> services as I read how people are gettings "social skills" groups and 1:1> services.. but.. I don't know. We just started pre algebra at home and we> are starting a social skills group with my insurance next week. I am> confused as maybe he could be getting

more. When happens when he ages out of> the montessori?>> Initally what made him perform in school (he refused all handwriting and> most work) was concerta (like a miracle). After a year of performing well, I> took him off and put him on prozac (as he was obssessed with wiping spots> off of floors in public ). Prozac seems to be his saving grace. He has> friends now, he laughs, engages.. a new kid.>> So that is my story. I'm just here for sharing. I would love to meet anyone> near Lake Elsinore, CA with a son near my age.>> THanks

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Hi HannahM and Welcome,

I am so sorry you have so much wrong but your not going on TRT is going to keep

you feeling like crap and it's taking time off the back of your life.

With the right Dr. doing the right meds your going to feel like a new person.

We have men here that had cancer that are on TRT and doing great.

http://men.webmd.com/news/20070605/low-testosterone-may-up-male-mortality?ecd=wn\

l_men_072407

Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and the HCG

Update see of you can get your Dr. to work with Dr. over the phone to test

and treat you he is about the best male Hormone Dr. in the world men fly into

see him from all over the world. He only needs to see you once to treat you by

Email or Phone.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: HannahM <hannahsometime@...>

> Subject: new to the group

>

> Date: Sunday, February 27, 2011, 8:25 AM

>

>

>    Hello Everyone

>

>     I'm new to this group and have had

> hypogonadism my whole life. I'm also intersex plus

> transgender. Having said all this I married with children

> and have no regrets of who I am, but the down side of all

> this has been my health. My right undescend testis turned to

> cancer and after surgery it was found to be an Ovary/testis.

> It turn out I had Ovarian cancer. In addition I had several

> very large Teratoma, these were in fact babies. They had

> arms, skin, eyes, ect. In addition the left testis never

> matured to full size or my penis.

>    Over the years my health has suffered

> because of very low testosterone levels and at the same time

> I have no desire to take testorterone suppliments.

>

>       D/H

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

A warm welcome to the group from the UK.  This is a really great and

informative

group and the people are very approachable so please make yourself at home.

Take care

Ade

________________________________

From: HannahM <hannahsometime@...>

Sent: Sunday, 27 February, 2011 13:25:21

Subject: new to the group

 

Hello Everyone

I'm new to this group and have had hypogonadism my whole life. I'm also intersex

plus transgender. Having said all this I married with children and have no

regrets of who I am, but the down side of all this has been my health. My right

undescend testis turned to cancer and after surgery it was found to be an

Ovary/testis. It turn out I had Ovarian cancer. In addition I had several very

large Teratoma, these were in fact babies. They had arms, skin, eyes, ect. In

addition the left testis never matured to full size or my penis.

Over the years my health has suffered because of very low testosterone levels

and at the same time I have no desire to take testorterone suppliments.

D/H

[Guest guest]

Welcome this online family! I am sorry to read of your health concerns however

its good to read you have no problems in who you are with children. I take it

you are transitng from M to F? Or did I read incorrectly? May I ask, why you

have no desire to take TRT?

new to the group

Hello Everyone

I'm new to this group and have had hypogonadism my whole life. I'm also

intersex plus transgender. Having said all this I married with children and have

no regrets of who I am, but the down side of all this has been my health. My

right undescend testis turned to cancer and after surgery it was found to be an

Ovary/testis. It turn out I had Ovarian cancer. In addition I had several very

large Teratoma, these were in fact babies. They had arms, skin, eyes, ect. In

addition the left testis never matured to full size or my penis.

Over the years my health has suffered because of very low testosterone levels

and at the same time I have no desire to take testorterone suppliments.

D/H

Reply to sender | Reply to group |

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

I had a doctor offer me testosterone to make me more manly. God: I cannot

imagine what that even is. In my mind it would be the same as giving

testosterone to my wife. I'm intersex in spirit and mind, besides I'm

transgender. The problem is I love my wife very much and have no desire to harm

her in any way, so H feminization is out of the question.

But clearly my health is bad because of my chronic low T levels. Three years ago

I had 4-by passes and now diabetic, plus the cancer and also my weak bones has

me just tired.

The good thing about all my issues is my heart didn't suffer damage, so I'm OK,

but I live on pills.

I have children because I'm not attracted to men. I did not start puberty until

I was out of HS and the period of time I was sexually active was strange to me.

I was repealed and attracted at the same time, I was in the wrong body. None you

can understand this issue but for people like me it is very clear who we are.

Please realize I have a clear picture of life and I do realize that I'm just a

small percentage of the population. But we amount to about 1-3% of the world

population and I'm sure many people like me are in this group.

Over all I can honestly say I'm loved, I can love.

H/D

________________________________

From: " uu1845@... " <uu1845@...>

Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 1:58:19 AM

Subject: RE: new to the group

Welcome this online family! I am sorry to read of your health concerns however

its good to read you have no problems in who you are with children. I take it

you are transitng from M to F? Or did I read incorrectly? May I ask, why you

have no desire to take TRT?

new to the group

Hello Everyone

I'm new to this group and have had hypogonadism my whole life. I'm also intersex

plus transgender. Having said all this I married with children and have no

regrets of who I am, but the down side of all this has been my health. My right

undescend testis turned to cancer and after surgery it was found to be an

Ovary/testis. It turn out I had Ovarian cancer. In addition I had several very

large Teratoma, these were in fact babies. They had arms, skin, eyes, ect. In

addition the left testis never matured to full size or my penis.

Over the years my health has suffered because of very low testosterone levels

and at the same time I have no desire to take testorteronesuppliments.

D/H

Reply to sender | Reply to group |

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

HD,

Even women need Testosterone and some women take it to become men.

Don't take this link wrong it is about FTM but full of very good info have you

ever tried to get your T levels up and what are your Estraidol levels.

http://www.ftmguide.org/ttypes.html#cypionate

I had Bypass Surgery 2 yrs ago it went very bad I had to be put in a coma for 13

weeks I had one infection after the other. When I got out of the hosp. I was

put on Statin Drugs told I need them yet I never had high Chol. in my life.

From the first week in the them meds I had joint and muscle pain. I told the

Dr.'s it was the statin drugs but they would not listen until 6 months ago I

could not stand up or walk now they treat me for Statin Drug damage.

I later found out I had died 5 times needed to be opened up 5 time and left open

due to being on blood thinners so they kept me in a coma until the thinners were

out of my body. I also found out the Heart Surgeon took me off my Testosterone

meds and this is why I had such a hard time.

If you never tried TRT try it see if you feel better and get stronger.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Hannah Micheletti <hannahsometime@...>

> Subject: Re: new to the group

>

> Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:10 AM

> I had a doctor offer me testosterone

> to make me more manly. God: I cannot

> imagine what that even is. In my mind it would be the same

> as giving

> testosterone to my wife. I'm intersex in spirit and mind,

> besides I'm

> transgender. The problem is I love my wife very much and

> have no desire to harm

> her in any way, so H feminization is out of the question.

> But clearly my health is bad because of my chronic low T

> levels. Three years ago

> I had 4-by passes and now diabetic, plus the cancer and

> also my weak bones has

> me just tired. 

> The good thing about all my issues is my heart didn't

> suffer damage, so I'm OK,

> but I live on pills.

>

> I have children because I'm not attracted to men. I did not

> start puberty until

> I was out of HS and the period of time I was sexually

> active was strange to me.

> I was repealed and attracted at the same time, I was in the

> wrong body. None you

> can understand this issue but for people like me it is very

> clear who we are.

>

> Please realize I have a clear picture of life and I do

> realize that I'm just a

> small percentage of the population. But we amount to about

> 1-3% of the world

> population and I'm sure many people like me are in this

> group.

>

> Over all I can honestly say I'm loved, I can love.

>     H/D

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: " uu1845@... "

> <uu1845@...>

>

> Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 1:58:19 AM

> Subject: RE: new to the group

>

>  

> Welcome this online family! I am sorry to read of your

> health concerns however

> its good to read you have no problems in who you are with

> children. I take it

> you are transitng from M to F? Or did I read incorrectly?

> May I ask, why you

> have no desire to take TRT?

>

>

> new to the group

>

> Hello Everyone

>

> I'm new to this group and have had hypogonadism my whole

> life. I'm also intersex

> plus transgender. Having said all this I married with

> children and have no

> regrets of who I am, but the down side of all this has been

> my health. My right

> undescend testis turned to cancer and after surgery it was

> found to be an

> Ovary/testis. It turn out I had Ovarian cancer. In addition

> I had several very

> large Teratoma, these were in fact babies. They had arms,

> skin, eyes, ect. In

> addition the left testis never matured to full size or my

> penis.

> Over the years my health has suffered because of very low

> testosterone levels

> and at the same time I have no desire to take

> testorteronesuppliments.

>

> D/H

>

> Reply to sender | Reply to group |

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

I appreciate you sharing but please dnt make it seem like no one here can

understand but folks like yourself. Its really your job if you take it on, to

educate people on who you are. The human element isn't perfect, and it can

confuse, scare, or even make someone feel inferior or trapped into being one way

while feeling another. You can continue to feel its " your kind against the

world " or you can educate the ones that would like the lessons you can teach

them about Hannah.

Re: new to the group

I had a doctor offer me testosterone to make me more manly. God: I cannot

imagine what that even is. In my mind it would be the same as giving

testosterone to my wife. I'm intersex in spirit and mind, besides I'm

transgender. The problem is I love my wife very much and have no desire to harm

her in any way, so H feminization is out of the question.

But clearly my health is bad because of my chronic low T levels. Three years

ago

I had 4-by passes and now diabetic, plus the cancer and also my weak bones has

me just tired.

The good thing about all my issues is my heart didn't suffer damage, so I'm OK,

but I live on pills.

I have children because I'm not attracted to men. I did not start puberty until

I was out of HS and the period of time I was sexually active was strange to me.

I was repealed and attracted at the same time, I was in the wrong body. None

you

can understand this issue but for people like me it is very clear who we are.

Please realize I have a clear picture of life and I do realize that I'm just a

small percentage of the population. But we amount to about 1-3% of the world

population and I'm sure many people like me are in this group.

Over all I can honestly say I'm loved, I can love.

H/D

________________________________

From: " uu1845@... " <uu1845@...>

hypogonadism

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

Wow Phil, did you try to sue? And why did they put you on statin for high

cholesterol if you had no preexisting history?

Re:

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

I am sorry I projected the idea it was a you against me.

By saying no one can understand me being intersex/trans I mean that even I have

a hard time with this subject. This isn't an easy subject to wrap your mind

around.

Many men, especially XXY have a hard time absorbing testosterone because of the

extra X in their gene structure. That is not to say everyone is that way but

could explain why there is such a variation in how some men can control

testosterone and others have more trouble.

If you try see things from the premise that all XXY are intersex, you would then

have to accept the extra X would interferer with testosterone absorption? In

other words we are mosaic?

H/D

________________________________

From: " uu1845@... " <uu1845@...>

Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 9:27:01 AM

Subject: RE: new to the group

I appreciate you sharing but please dnt make it seem like no one here can

understand but folks like yourself. Its really your job if you take it on, to

educate people on who you are. The human element isn't perfect, and it can

confuse, scare, or even make someone feel inferior or trapped into being one way

while feeling another. You can continue to feel its " your kind against the

world " or you can educate the ones that would like the lessons you can teach

them about Hannah.

Re: new to the group

I had a doctor offer me testosterone to make me more manly. God: I cannot

imagine what that even is. In my mind it would be the same as giving

testosterone to my wife. I'm intersex in spirit and mind, besides I'm

transgender. The problem is I love my wife very much and have no desire to harm

her in any way, so H feminization is out of the question.

But clearly my health is bad because of my chronic low T levels. Three years ago

I had 4-by passes and now diabetic, plus the cancer and also my weak bones has

me just tired.

The good thing about all my issues is my heart didn't suffer damage, so I'm OK,

but I live on pills.

I have children because I'm not attracted to men. I did not start puberty until

I was out of HS and the period of time I was sexually active was strange to me.

I was repealed and attracted at the same time, I was in the wrong body. None you

can understand this issue but for people like me it is very clear who we are.

Please realize I have a clear picture of life and I do realize that I'm just a

small percentage of the population. But we amount to about 1-3% of the world

population and I'm sure many people like me are in this group.

Over all I can honestly say I'm loved, I can love.

H/D

________________________________

From: " uu1845@... " <uu1845@...>

hypogonadism

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

One can't win sueing big drug Co.'s and if they have there way they will put

statin durgs in the water we drink.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: Hannah Micheletti <hannahsometime@...>

> > Subject: Re:

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Being XXY doesn't define Hannah. This is what I Was referring. Only you can help

us better understand who you are and what issues you are facing. Be well this

evening.

RE: new to the group

I appreciate you sharing but please dnt make it seem like no one here can

understand but folks like yourself. Its really your job if you take it on, to

educate people on who you are. The human element isn't perfect, and it can

confuse, scare, or even make someone feel inferior or trapped into being one

way

while feeling another. You can continue to feel its " your kind against the

world " or you can educate the ones th

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

I hope you have learned I guess top ut this behind you while moving forward

Phil. You are alive and seemingly intact.

Re: new to the group

>

>

> HD,

>

> Even women need Testosterone and some women take it to

> become men.

> Don't take this link wrong it is about FTM but full of

> very good info have you ever tried to get your T levels up

> and what are your Estraidol levels.

>

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

Yes in deed that is true, I'm sure many XXY are the same as the rest of the XY

male population, in gender expression but I personally tip to the side of XX.

Plus I did have ovary tissue in me and my type of cancer was ovarian cancer.

Plus I was asked to be in a study or the treatment of Ovarian cancer in women. I

was told at the Mayo clinic that most men that have this type of cancer can be

cured but for some reason treatments are not successful in women. I was at stage

3B or4 at the time. The chemotherapy really messed up my body, nervous system,

bones and some minor organ damage. Screws in my bones from fractures pulled lose

and came though the skin. My remaining testis shutdown for over a year, as well

as some liver and kidney damage, that has subsequently returned to near normal.

(I have had my share of fractures and last year I drove my motorcycle to Alaska

with a broken arm. )

To be honest about my heart issues, I was on Vytorin for hi cholesterol for five

years and I just as started waking up after by-pass surgery a doctor asked why I

was taking Vytorin, all that drug does is plug blood vessels. Why did they give

the stuff in the first place. Now I'm on Lipitor and they want my LDL at 70 or

less.

Of course my LHndFSH levels are high as to be expected.

Unfortunately I take a bunch of medications, Oxcarbazepin, cymbalta,

metopolol,lipitor, glumetza,losartan,glipizide,naproxen,

niacin,omepazole,glipizide, aspinin, ect.ect. ectttttt.

As far as (allergies) to testosterone, I think I touched on this in my last

letter. Someone who has PAIS or AIS (Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome)

Cannot use the testosterone that is being produced or taken into the body. The

theory is the extra X mimics a woman and doesn't completely absorb the available

testosterone. I think a better answer is the X effectively blocks

some receptor sites in men. My description may be off a little bit but you get

the idea I hope. Then there are men who are (completely AIS) and cannot asbsorb

any of their testosterone from the testes and are born as women that have testes

still in the abdomen. A few of these people have given birth to children.

Now you wonder why I'm confused. LOL

H/D

________________________________

From: " uu1845@... " <uu1845@...>

Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 4:07:35 PM

Subject: RE: new to the group

Being XXY doesn't define Hannah. This is what I Was referring. Only you can help

us better understand who you are and what issues you are facing. Be well this

evening.

RE: new to the group

I appreciate you sharing but please dnt make it seem like no one here can

understand but folks like yourself. Its really your job if you take it on, to

educate people on who you are. The human element isn't perfect, and it can

confuse, scare, or even make someone feel inferior or trapped into being one way

while feeling another. You can continue to feel its " your kind against the

world " or you can educate the ones th

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

Yes, this is confusing to say the least. But I also read someone very informed,

educated, and responsible regarding health. You are doing your job, continue to

let docs and meds do its jobs as well.

Now, you live as a woman with children, adopted I take it. But you have male

sexual secondary characteristics as well, with undeveloped testes and overies

that led to cancer?

RE: new to the group

I appreciate you sharing but please dnt make it seem like no one here can

understand but folks like yourself. Its really your job if you take it on, to

educate people on who you are. The human element isn't perfect, and it can

confuse, scare, or even make someone feel inferior or trapped into being one

way

while feeling another. You can continue to feel its " your kind against the

world " or you can educate the ones th

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

Not all XXY are the same. I use T injections & I raised my T from 120 to 700.

>

> Yes in deed that is true, I'm sure many XXY are the same as the rest of the XY

> male population, in gender expression but I personally tip to the side of XX.

> Plus I did have ovary tissue in me and my type of cancer was ovarian cancer.

> Plus I was asked to be in a study or the treatment of Ovarian cancer in women.

I

> was told at the Mayo clinic that most men that have this type of cancer can be

> cured but for some reason treatments are not successful in women. I was at

stage

> 3B or4 at the time. The chemotherapy really messed up my body, nervous system,

> bones and some minor organ damage. Screws in my bones from fractures pulled

lose

> and came though the skin. My remaining testis shutdown for over a year, as

well

> as some liver and kidney damage, that has subsequently returned to near

normal.

> (I have had my share of fractures and last year I drove my motorcycle to

Alaska

> with a broken arm. )

> To be honest about my heart issues, I was on Vytorin for hi cholesterol for

five

> years and I just as started waking up after by-pass surgery a doctor asked why

I

> was taking Vytorin, all that drug does is plug blood vessels. Why did they

give

> the stuff in the first place. Now I'm on Lipitor and they want my LDL at 70 or

> less.

>

> Of course my LHndFSH levels are high as to be expected.

> Unfortunately I take a bunch of medications, Oxcarbazepin, cymbalta,

> metopolol,lipitor, glumetza,losartan,glipizide,naproxen,

> niacin,omepazole,glipizide, aspinin, ect.ect. ectttttt.

>

> As far as (allergies) to testosterone, I think I touched on this in my last

> letter. Someone who has PAIS or AIS (Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome)

> Cannot use the testosterone that is being produced or taken into the body. The

> theory is the extra X mimics a woman and doesn't completely absorb the

available

> testosterone. I think a better answer is the X effectively blocks

> some receptor sites in men. My description may be off a little bit but you get

> the idea I hope. Then there are men who are (completely AIS) and cannot

asbsorb

> any of their testosterone from the testes and are born as women that have

testes

> still in the abdomen. A few of these people have given birth to children.

>

> Now you wonder why I'm confused. LOL

>

> H/D

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: " uu1845@... " <uu1845@...>

>

> Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 4:07:35 PM

> Subject: RE: new to the group

>

>

> Being XXY doesn't define Hannah. This is what I Was referring. Only you can

help

> us better understand who you are and what issues you are facing. Be well this

> evening.

>

> RE: new to the group

>

> I appreciate you sharing but please dnt make it seem like no one here can

> understand but folks like yourself. Its really your job if you take it on, to

> educate people on who you are. The human element isn't perfect, and it can

> confuse, scare, or even make someone feel inferior or trapped into being one

way

> while feeling another. You can continue to feel its " your kind against the

> world " or you can educate the ones th

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Of course your not the same, I'm projecting the reasons some XXY have trouble

and others not. The fact is every person alive has a mosaic component or nature

to their bodies and in XXY is more apparent, hence active.

________________________________

From: gin2c <no_reply >

Sent: Tue, March 1, 2011 7:00:46 AM

Subject: Re: new to the group

Not all XXY are the same. I use T injections & I raised my T from 120 to 700.

>

> Yes in deed that is true, I'm sure many XXY are the same as the rest of the XY

> male population, in gender expression but I personally tip to the side of XX.

> Plus I did have ovary tissue in me and my type of cancer was ovarian cancer.

> Plus I was asked to be in a study or the treatment of Ovarian cancer in women.

>I

>

> was told at the Mayo clinic that most men that have this type of cancer can be

> cured but for some reason treatments are not successful in women. I was at

>stage

>

> 3B or4 at the time. The chemotherapy really messed up my body, nervous system,

> bones and some minor organ damage. Screws in my bones from fractures pulled

>lose

>

> and came though the skin. My remaining testis shutdown for over a year, as

well

>

> as some liver and kidney damage, that has subsequently returned to near

normal.

>

> (I have had my share of fractures and last year I drove my motorcycle to

Alaska

>

> with a broken arm. )

> To be honest about my heart issues, I was on Vytorin for hi cholesterol for

>five

>

> years and I just as started waking up after by-pass surgery a doctor asked why

>I

>

> was taking Vytorin, all that drug does is plug blood vessels. Why did they

give

>

> the stuff in the first place. Now I'm on Lipitor and they want my LDL at 70 or

> less.

>

> Of course my LHndFSH levels are high as to be expected.

> Unfortunately I take a bunch of medications, Oxcarbazepin, cymbalta,

> metopolol,lipitor, glumetza,losartan,glipizide,naproxen,

> niacin,omepazole,glipizide, aspinin, ect.ect. ectttttt.

>

> As far as (allergies) to testosterone, I think I touched on this in my last

> letter. Someone who has PAIS or AIS (Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome)

> Cannot use the testosterone that is being produced or taken into the body. The

> theory is the extra X mimics a woman and doesn't completely absorb the

>available

>

> testosterone. I think a better answer is the X effectively blocks

> some receptor sites in men. My description may be off a little bit but you get

> the idea I hope. Then there are men who are (completely AIS) and cannot

asbsorb

> any of their testosterone from the testes and are born as women that have

>testes

>

> still in the abdomen. A few of these people have given birth to children.

>

> Now you wonder why I'm confused. LOL

>

> H/D

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: " uu1845@... " <uu1845@...>

>

> Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 4:07:35 PM

> Subject: RE: new to the group

>

>

> Being XXY doesn't define Hannah. This is what I Was referring. Only you can

>help

>

> us better understand who you are and what issues you are facing. Be well this

> evening.

>

> RE: new to the group

>

> I appreciate you sharing but please dnt make it seem like no one here can

> understand but folks like yourself. Its really your job if you take it on, to

> educate people on who you are. The human element isn't perfect, and it can

> confuse, scare, or even make someone feel inferior or trapped into being one

>way

> while feeling another. You can continue to feel its " your kind against the

> world " or you can educate the ones th

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

If your going to take lipitor read these links.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/07/20/the-truth-about-st\

atin-drugs-revealed.aspx

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/02/12/dr-duane-graveline\

-on-cholesterol-and-coq10.aspx

http://www.spacedoc.net/muscle_pain_statins.htm

Two yrs. ago I had Heart Bypass Surgery was in a coma 13 weeks died 5 x's. I

lived through all this only to become crippled because Dr.'s put me on Statin

Drugs and would not listen to me when I told them they were doing damage to my

muscles and joints.

Now when I can't stand up or walk with out a walker and need pain pills on them

6 months now they take me off the Statin Drugs and know all about how to treat

me for this problem.

Can you go into more detail about how you tired TRT what you took the dose and

how your labs looked.

In all the yrs 30 of them I never heard of someone that can't have Testosterone

in there body from what I know about this you can't live with out it. And if

your levels are very low you end up with bone loss.

There are women bodybuilders that take hug dose's of Testosterone to build big

muscles. And there are women that want to be men that take Testosterone to do

this. I just don't under stand how you can be very low on T and not be able to

supplement your body with it.

Can you post any links that talk about this. I have this link but it dose not

say you can't use Testosterone to keep your levels up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypogonadism

I just can't find anything that says you can't take Testosterone to keep your

levels up.

I must tell you how much I have been told some Bull by a Dr. most of them Endo's

that are not up on Hormones. Like one Endo took me off TRT telling me he needed

some Base Line labs and my labs were no good. He told me some Bull about only

his labs could test me the right way to see why I have low Testosterone.

Not knowing what I know today I went off TRT ended up very sick and off work on

sick leave. He did the his Base line Set of labs and found nothing that would

tell him why I have low T. He even told me I am Depressed don't have low T and

offered me Prozac. I was shocked when I got the lab bill my BCBS would not pay

for his labs they were not an approve lab for BCBS. Cost me over $2,345.00.

When I went back to the Dr. that sent me to see this Endo he got mad as all Hel*

at what this Endo did and said to me. And the guy is a friend of his my TT come

back at 87 and the rest of the labs this jerk did had nothing to do with low

Testosterone.

So all I am say is there are a lot of Dr.'s out there that are not up on this

and blow a lot of smoke up ones A**.

I read this time and time again on the web and forums men seeing Endo's even at

the Top Hosp.'s like Mayo and are told some Bull because they are not up on

hormones.

You need to find a good Dr. like Dr. at www.allthingsmale.com

you can even post at his forum and get some dam good input about what you have.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?2-All-Things-Male

Even post at Dr.no's forum he is a top Dr. of Psychiatry that feels most

peoples problems are from Hormones.

If you post at his forum he will get back to you.

http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Hannah Micheletti <hannahsometime@...>

> Subject: Re: new to the group

>

> Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:09 PM

> Yes in deed that is true, I'm sure

> many XXY are the same as the rest of the XY

> male population, in gender expression but I personally tip

> to the side of XX.

> Plus I did have ovary tissue in me and my type of cancer

> was ovarian cancer.

> Plus I was asked to be in a study or the treatment of

> Ovarian cancer in women. I

> was told at the Mayo clinic that most men that have this

> type of cancer can be

> cured but for some reason treatments are not successful in

> women. I was at stage

> 3B or4 at the time. The chemotherapy really messed up my

> body, nervous system,

> bones and some minor organ damage. Screws in my bones from

> fractures pulled lose

> and came though the skin. My remaining testis shutdown for

> over a year, as well

> as some liver and kidney damage, that has subsequently

> returned to near normal.

> (I have had my share of fractures and last year I drove my

> motorcycle to Alaska

> with a broken arm. )

> To be honest about my heart issues, I was on Vytorin for hi

> cholesterol for five

> years and I just as started waking up after by-pass surgery

> a doctor asked why I

> was taking Vytorin, all that drug does is plug blood

> vessels. Why did they give

> the stuff in the first place. Now I'm on Lipitor and they

> want my LDL at 70 or

> less.

>

> Of course my LHndFSH levels are high as to be expected.

> Unfortunately I take a bunch of medications, Oxcarbazepin,

> cymbalta,

> metopolol,lipitor, glumetza,losartan,glipizide,naproxen,

> niacin,omepazole,glipizide, aspinin, ect.ect. ectttttt.

>

> As far as (allergies) to testosterone, I think I touched on

> this in my last

> letter. Someone who has PAIS or AIS (Partial Androgen

> Insensitivity Syndrome)

> Cannot use the testosterone that is being produced or taken

> into the body. The

> theory is the extra X mimics a woman and doesn't completely

> absorb the available

> testosterone. I think a better answer is the X

> effectively  blocks

> some receptor sites in men. My description may be off a

> little bit but you get

> the idea I hope. Then there are men who are (completely

> AIS) and cannot asbsorb

> any of their testosterone from the testes and are born as

> women that have testes

> still in the abdomen. A few of these people have given

> birth to children.

>

> Now you wonder why I'm confused. LOL

>

> H/D

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: " uu1845@... "

> <uu1845@...>

>

> Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 4:07:35 PM

> Subject: RE: new to the group

>

>  

> Being XXY doesn't define Hannah. This is what I Was

> referring. Only you can help

> us better understand who you are and what issues you are

> facing. Be well this

> evening.

>

> RE: new to the group

>

> I appreciate you sharing but please dnt make it seem like

> no one here can

> understand but folks like yourself. Its really your job if

> you take it on, to

> educate people on who you are. The human element isn't

> perfect, and it can

> confuse, scare, or even make someone feel inferior or

> trapped into being one way

> while feeling another. You can continue to feel its " your

> kind against the

> world " or you can educate the ones th

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>