Violent Behavior

[Guest guest]

,

I've been told by some professionals that the meltdowns aren't OCD related and by some that they are. I know my now 10 year old son would meltdown when we didn't follow his compulsions when he was younger. He would hit me and his father and was particularly rough on one of his little sisters. I would highly recommend the book "The Explosive Child" by Dr. Ross Greene. It was the first book I read that really described Ian. It gave us and Ian many great ideas on handling meltdowns. The thing that has helped Ian the most is SSRIs. We haven't tried Luvox, but have used Zoloft, Paxil, Effexor, Prozac, Wellbutrin, and now Celexa. We have recently have begun lowering his dose of Celexa and I'm starting to see his irritability increase. No total meltdowns yet (knock on wood). We went through 3 therapists before we found our current one who specializes in exposure and response prevention therapy. This is considered front line treatment for kids with OCD. The traditional "talking therapy" just isn't effective for OCD. You might want to check out the OCF's website at www.ocfoundation.org . They have great articles about how to select a therapist, medications for kids, etc.

Good Luck!

in TX

[Guest guest]

--

What triggered the violence? Did it happen during an unstructured

time of day? It *could be* OCD related. Here's what I know (which,

as you know, I'm no expert). But, when I don't participate in

's rituals, or if I throw the question back on him (like, 'Do

YOU think it has germs on it?') WHAMMO!!! I used to think of this as

RAGE, but now I'm seeing it as eXtreme Anxiety!! He's absolutely

TERRIFIED, and as you know, men and boys are much alike, it's HARD

for them to show fear. So, RAGE is the more macho approach. Plus,

it's more intimidating and manipulative to show RAGE instead of

fear. has LEARNED that the rage will make mom and dad tiptoe

around him and give him what he WANTS-- which is usually answering

OCD. He doesn't get enraged over anything except OCD stuff, in most

cases.

So, what's behind the anger? Find that out. Then, you'll know how to

treat it. If he's in a state of panic or fear, don't do what I used

to do: fight fire with fire. Man! That only makes him more

explosive. But, hey-- we're only HUMAN. We meltdown when THEY

meltdown!! Worry less about him and more about you and your husband.

Afterall, when the kids are GONE, it's you and him, so what will be

left in the aftermath??? WALK AWAY. Go cut the grass like I did

last weekend. Make sure you have your walkman too-- and sing a

little to cheer you up. He'll be OK!!! He might even THINK about

what he did while you're gone. And, if you have to leave him alone

and take your OWN time out AWAY from him by DRIVING AWAY and going to

the store and getting yourself something nice (like a frozen coffee,

or hell-- something alcoholic! kidding do it. He'll be fine for

15 minutes! Don't let OCD bully you!! And, like Kathy stated--

model to how you won't let OCD bully you by TAKING CARE OF

YOURSELF and DETACHING from it. Detachment and Letting Go of someone

else's problems is the greatest demonstration of FAITH in their

capabilities and in our Higher Power. Say to , " I can see that

you're very upset right now. I think both of us need a time-out, and

later, when we're both feeling better, we can talk calmly about

whatever it is that's bothering you. " Disengage. Walk Away. He

WILL survive!!!

Hang in there!!! Lots of hugs,

Joni

P.S. Ask the therapist about doing Anger Management work with .

I took an anger management class several years ago (my anger was

suppressed instead of explosive, however.. it's just as bad because I

IMPLODED). I learned such great skills, like beating a pillow,

kicking down trees, pulling weeds, WRITING down my feelings and

putting them in a 'God Box' and letting go... things like that. Does

have a trampoline? Maybe he can JUMP out his anger. Get a

PUNCHING BAG. Every house with a MALE child should have one!

We've got several-- one in each boy's room (the small one) and a big

boxing bag hanging in the garage.

[Guest guest]

seems to be easily frustrated, but it's hard to tell when a

frustration will just stay a frustration or become an explosion.

Tonight's episode was triggered when 's father told him not to go

outside on the grass in his socks. So went outside but stayed in

the garage. When his father called him back into the house to get shoes

on, exploded. Yes, technically he wasn't on the grass, but the

expectation was that he shouldn't go *outside* in just his socks.

Internally, I was on 's side for this one, but there wasn't any time

to calm him down before he started the meltdown. And they come on like a

raging tiger out of nowhere.

This sounds very minor, and it is, but and his father seem to butt

heads a lot -- the same goes for me and 's father, too, but that's

another story. But simple requests can lead to all hell breaking loose

-- I never can tell how he's going to react.

I like your idea about the trampoline and punching bag. I've been

wanting to get a trampoline ever since you mentioned it back on the ENFP

list, but I've got to get some ground level in the back yard first.

Then anger management suggestion is also good. Now if only I could get

this darn psychologist to work.... It's probably time to try someone new.

Thanks!

Joni wrote:

>

> --

> What triggered the violence? Did it happen during an unstructured

> time of day? It *could be* OCD related. Here's what I know (which,

> as you know, I'm no expert). But, when I don't participate in

> 's rituals, or if I throw the question back on him (like, 'Do

> YOU think it has germs on it?') WHAMMO!!! I used to think of this as

> RAGE, but now I'm seeing it as eXtreme Anxiety!! He's absolutely

> TERRIFIED, and as you know, men and boys are much alike, it's HARD

> for them to show fear. So, RAGE is the more macho approach. Plus,

> it's more intimidating and manipulative to show RAGE instead of

> fear. has LEARNED that the rage will make mom and dad tiptoe

> around him and give him what he WANTS-- which is usually answering

> OCD. He doesn't get enraged over anything except OCD stuff, in most

> cases.

>

> So, what's behind the anger? Find that out. Then, you'll know how to

> treat it. If he's in a state of panic or fear, don't do what I used

> to do: fight fire with fire. Man! That only makes him more

> explosive. But, hey-- we're only HUMAN. We meltdown when THEY

> meltdown!! Worry less about him and more about you and your husband.

> Afterall, when the kids are GONE, it's you and him, so what will be

> left in the aftermath??? WALK AWAY. Go cut the grass like I did

> last weekend. Make sure you have your walkman too-- and sing a

> little to cheer you up. He'll be OK!!! He might even THINK about

> what he did while you're gone. And, if you have to leave him alone

> and take your OWN time out AWAY from him by DRIVING AWAY and going to

> the store and getting yourself something nice (like a frozen coffee,

> or hell-- something alcoholic! kidding do it. He'll be fine for

> 15 minutes! Don't let OCD bully you!! And, like Kathy stated--

> model to how you won't let OCD bully you by TAKING CARE OF

> YOURSELF and DETACHING from it. Detachment and Letting Go of someone

> else's problems is the greatest demonstration of FAITH in their

> capabilities and in our Higher Power. Say to , " I can see that

> you're very upset right now. I think both of us need a time-out, and

> later, when we're both feeling better, we can talk calmly about

> whatever it is that's bothering you. " Disengage. Walk Away. He

> WILL survive!!!

>

> Hang in there!!! Lots of hugs,

> Joni

> P.S. Ask the therapist about doing Anger Management work with .

> I took an anger management class several years ago (my anger was

> suppressed instead of explosive, however.. it's just as bad because I

> IMPLODED). I learned such great skills, like beating a pillow,

> kicking down trees, pulling weeds, WRITING down my feelings and

> putting them in a 'God Box' and letting go... things like that. Does

> have a trampoline? Maybe he can JUMP out his anger. Get a

> PUNCHING BAG. Every house with a MALE child should have one!

> We've got several-- one in each boy's room (the small one) and a big

> boxing bag hanging in the garage.

[Guest guest]

,

I like 's advise - I'd call the police on one of my *teenage*

sons in a SECOND if they threatened me in any way. With (10),

who is the same age , I'd really hesitate locking him up,

though. I think he would be terrified, plus I don't think there's a

detention center for 10 year olds! I could be wrong. But! I have

WARNED that when he gets older (maybe 12 or 13- those preteen

years), and if the rage continues, the police WILL BE called (and

I've done it to -17, twice, so he knows I mean it!). For now,

we are making him PAY for any damage done to our house (an idea his

therapist agreed with) and taking away privileges, like the Nintendo

for a couple of days, losing his playtime after school w/ friends,

the trampoline, etc... It has to be something you can *enforce* with

reasonable time restrictions (like a couple of days or a week,

depending on the behavior). My silly husband will say, " That's it

young man-- you're grounded for a MONTH!' Ummmm... yeah, right.

is smart enough to know that dad is just blowing hot air so he

doesn't take him seriously. Why should he? An empty threat like

that is meaningless!

When gets physically abusive with a family member, he is put in

his room (carried bodily if necessary) to keep him and everyone else

safe. He's got a small punching bag in there, and he's encouraged to

use it. He also has to write (or use his tape recorder) 10 to 15

times " I'm sorry that I hit ---- whoever. Please forgive me. " When

that's done, he can come out of his room. When I'm trying to think

of an appropriate punishment, I think to myself, 'What would the

Courts do?' Assault and Battery where I live is usually punished

with a fine for the first offense. Second offense: 2-3 days jail

time plus a fine. Third offense-- up to a year in jail, court costs

and MORE fines. Conduct a mock court in your home and teach your son

about REAL LIFE consequences for assault and battery-- which by

definition, is any action that threatens your physical body,

including 'getting up in your face.'

But... the BIGGER issue here isn't the abuse, in my opinion.

over-reacted for a reason. It's this thing with the socks.... and an

issue of 'picking your battles.'

I understand the 'locking heads' with Dad issue. It's a guy thing.

They're all competing, like bucks during mating season and marking

their territory! I laugh ALOT around here at the male species!!

But, --Why is it such a big deal if goes outside with his

socks on? I *know* this can't be your rule! This sounds way too

controlling! So WHAT if the socks get dirty? What your husband is

doing is engaging in a power struggle, and like the case with the

coat that I posted about, whose problem is it if he gets his socks

dirty? He's old enough to throw his socks into the washing machine.

If you get a trampoline, you'll have TONS of socks (including

neighborhood socks) scattered around your backyard. No biggie!! LET

THEM BE KIDS WHILE THEY CAN!!! I let these kind of things ROLL OFF

MY BACK. Life's too important to take so seriously, so I don't care

if my son wears gloves on his feet or walks barefoot in the snow!

He'll put the socks/shoes/boots on when his toes get cold or if he

steps on a bee, right? Isn't that how WE learned? When my son is

having fun, YAY, life is good. A child w/ OCD has ENOUGH crap to

deal with. Tell your hubby to lighten up about the socks. In fact,

tell him that *I* said 'stop being so controlling!' Hey-- I don't

have OCD, but I'll tell you THIS: If someone told me that I couldn't

go outside in just my socks, that's EXACTLY what I would do! In fact,

I'd probably wear them on my head just to piss him off! *giggle*

Joni

P.S. is 10 and the Luvox is working wonders. He's currently

taking 150 mgs and I think he needs an increase because it's starting

to wear off, especially on the weekends during UNSTRUCTURED times! I

just threw that in for your information. Knowing you, I don't think

this one episode was a medication issue-- it's a control issue. Kids

know exactly how to push our buttons. Tell your hubby not to let

know that he's got a hang-up with clean SOCKS! LOL If is

anything like you, , he'll do exactly what his Dad doesn't want

him to do. If I told one of my sons that a mud puddle was off

limits, WHAM--- mud city! Sounds like FUN to me!

PSS - Take on a field trip over the summer to the juvenile

detention center and 'scare him straight.' I'm doing this NEXT week

with and I can't wait. Whatever triggers the rage -socks, OCD,

an over-controlling parent, etc... it's NEVER acceptable to hit a

family member, no matter how angry he is, or how justified he feels

his anger was. It's ok to be angry, but it's not ok to hurt others

with anger. He needs to see what happens to kids who are abusive to

others. Start now before those HELLISH teenage years are upon you.

The sooner he learns about consequences, the easier it will be.

> My son (10) has been exhibiting increasingly violent behavior

when

> he gets into his meltdowns. In the past he would take out his

> frustrations by hitting a pillow, but he has progressed to trying to

> destroy material things and trying to physically hurt himself and

his father.

>

[Guest guest]

--

I'm supposed to be looking for a part-time job, but you KNOW how

boring THAT is!

Your husband needs counseling! LOL! Tell him I'm going to call him

and scare HIS ass straight! What is he, an ENTJ 'Feildmarshal' or

an ESTJ 'Administrator?' Whatever he is, he needs to keep that stuff

at the office or the freakin' military! I KNEW you couldn't be

behind the controlling 'sock' behavior. Your husband needs to let

go. Tell him to talk to *my* husband about stress and how it can

kill you (he had an angioplasty at age 40 because of control/stress

issues).

I'll be praying for him. AND YOU!!! Honestly, I don't know how you,

a fiesty rule-hating ENFP can live with him. If someone told me to

eat my two green vegetables, I'd tell him to shove those greens

straight up his you know WHAT! Good for you for standing up to

him. It must be very draining. Maybe YOU can get counseling about

the future of this marriage. I've done that too. When HE wouldn't

go (because of course, he didn't HAVE any problems) I took myself.

Best gift I ever gave myself!!! It saved my life because I started

to focus less on him and more on ME! But, the therapist said there

was no hope in our marriage. LOL!! We're celebrating our 22nd

wedding anniversary on May 26, but he DID have an EPIPHANY when he

nearly croaked from a heart attack - and he changed and let go of all

the SMALL STUFF. THANK GOD! He's alot more fun now that he knows

how TRIVIAL some things are and that life is SHORT! Having teenagers

will do that to you too. If he thinks a dirty sock is bad, whoa

nellie! He ain't seen nothin' YET!! SAVE YOUR ENERGY FOR THE BIG

STUFF, Mr. 's Husband!

Take care of YOURSELF, !!! Remember, the only way to change HIM

is to change YOURSELF! ***hugs***

Joni

> Joni, you know me too well to think that I care about the silly

socks. But my husband does have some control issues and way too many

RULES. Other than basic guidelines, I can't stand RULES. I rebel

against RULES.

>

> --

[Guest guest]

Hi this is the advice we got too, that Kel should be consequenced for

poor behavior even if it a result of an OCD obsession or compulsion.

I'll never forget though when my then-5 yo came home downcast from school,

having been kept from part of recess because she talked in line. For awhile

she had a compulsion to do stuff she had just been told not to do. So the

teacher had the kgarten line up, reminded them to be good citizens and not

talk while walking through the halls, and Kel would always say *something*

just as she crossed the threshold into the hall. One time it was " blah blah

blah! "

Anyway, she told me " Just once, I'd like to get in trouble for something *I*

do! " instead of getting in trouble for dumb stuff OCD made her do.

I'm divided over consequencing OCD behav ior. On one hand punishing poor

behavior and acting out is pretty universal out there in the real world, and

occasionally when an OCD behavior has been dangerous, I've stopped Kel right

then and sent her to her room. But for most of them, I've had better luck

approaching from the position that Kel doesn't want to be doing these things

either, so let's solve the problem--come up with ERP approach, etc.

Kathy R. in Indiana

Re: violent behavior

> Hi Diane, My son also shows very violent behavior when he cannot do what

he

> think needs to be done. He will hit, spit and threaten (and the hamper

gets

> thrown down the stairs) lol. The therapist says this is a result of OCD

but

> he should still be accountable for his behavior. It is hard for him to

> understand why he should have to be " punished " because of something the

OCD

> made him do. WE are all finding new stuff about OCD each day. Z.

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane, My son also shows very violent behavior when he cannot do what he

think needs to be done. He will hit, spit and threaten (and the hamper gets

thrown down the stairs) lol. The therapist says this is a result of OCD but

he should still be accountable for his behavior. It is hard for him to

understand why he should have to be " punished " because of something the OCD

made him do. WE are all finding new stuff about OCD each day. Z.

violent behavior

> My son (10) has been exhibiting increasingly violent behavior when

> he gets into his meltdowns. In the past he would take out his

> frustrations by hitting a pillow, but he has progressed to trying to

> destroy material things and trying to physically hurt himself and his

father.

>

> I don't think the psychologist we had been seeing is doing much good. At

> the last session wouldn't talk or cooperate. He just sat there (and

> I had to pay $110 for that). The therapist doesn't do CBT or E/RP, but

> she was the one who had started seeing months ago before I realized

> had OCD. The psychiatrist at the practice has upped 's dosage

> of Luvox from 50mg to 75mg to 100mg. (He just started the 100mg tonight

> at bedtime.)

>

> This evening I talked to a highly reputable doctor in my area who

> specializes in OCD. I'm getting on his waiting list, which right

> now reaches into August. Anyway, the doctor welcomed any questions while

> I had him on the phone. I asked him about 's violent behavior, and

> he said that it wasn't related to OCD at all, that it was something else

> altogether. (What? I don't know. He'll have to be further diagnosed, but

> this doctor does ONLY OCD -- interesting!)

>

> I recall several of you on the list describing your children's behavior

> as sometimes violent. Have you been told that it's related to OCD or

> that it's something else? What works to help curb the behavior? I'm just

> afraid that eventually will hurt himself or someone else. Right now

> I can handle him, but he'll probably reach a growth spurt in the next

> year, and then what will I do? What kind of therapy helps with violent

behavior?

>

> The current psychologist tried to teach breathing exercises, but

> won't use them when he's in a meltdown. And these darn occurrences

> happen so quickly it's difficult to do anything to prevent them. One

> minute he's your sweet average kid, the next minute you'd think his head

> was about to spin 360 degrees!

>

> Any thoughts, suggestions, etc.? Like many of you, I'm at my wits end,

> and I'm so terribly exhausted from these almost daily occurrences.

>

> Thanks.

> --

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

HI:

When you read books about OCD and speak to docs they say that violent

behavior is not part of OCD. However you can also read that children and

teens can react aggressively when prevented from carrying out their

compulsions. It is a tricky situation for the docs who do not want to

exacerbate people with OCD involving violent obsessions as they are not

going to do that which they fear. However those of us who are parents of

kids with OCD have noticed (hahaha what a euphemism!) that OCD meltdowns

can involve violent physical or verbal actions.

My son, Steve, is definitely not at all a violent person. However when he

was very ill with OCD and was having severe meltdowns with repeated

triggers and was a lost soul about how to cope, he exhibited violent

behavior for sure. Sometimes I wonder how much of that is from his

irritability from major depressive disorder.

What I found helpful, when I managed to stop reacting violently myself (I'm

very ashamed of that!), was to remain calm, consequence the behavior and

when a cool moment was happening discuss the problem with violent behavior.

Steve hated the violent stuff even more than we did, felt ashamed of

himself, and has mercifully forgotten a lot of it. We found that the

calmness, using a professional parenting plan with pre-negotiated

consequences, and E & RP treatment were the key to getting rid of the violent

behavior. Another thing I found very important was not to show fear to my

son. That would scare him even more and make him get even more out of

control. Somehow when they see their parents unable to cope this triggers

their OCD even more. Often I was scared that he might do me some real

harm. Now I understand more what was going on. It is like they are having

a brain storm, almost possessed.

Just my 2c worth. Take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 06:13 PM 05/09/2001 -0500, you wrote:

>,

>I can testify that OCD can lead to violent behavior. It can look like

>something else, but be OCD. That is a strange comment from a doctor who

> " specializes " in OCD. Maybe he is sensing something else...like mood

>disorder. We have found Neurontin especially helpful for this.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear , I went through similar behavior actions with my daughter when her OCD peaked back in Jan-Feb. I had no idea if it was the OCD or my mothering or my spoiled little 8 year old girl. She too would speak very rudely to me, hit me, kick me, punch me and push me away when she was having an episode or a so called melt down. I had no idea what to do except cry.

Luckily we had just started with her new therapist who specializes with children who have OCD when my daughter was having a melt down and asking me to hurt her! I immediately left a message for the therapist and she told me that the children feel so out of control when they are having obsessions and some children behave by taking it out on Mommy because they are scared and they want to be in control of the situation. The bottom line is, yes it is OCD related behavior. I waited months before I was able to get this answer and explanation. We have been with this therapist for approx. 2 months and after she saw my daughter a few times and started our CBT she gave us a behavior chart and it was divided into three parts for every day (morning to lunch, lunch to dinner, dinner to bedtime) Everytime my daughter had a tantrum we had to give her a check mark and we needed to bring the chart back weekly. I believe it was an embarrassment to my daughter knowing I spoke to her therapist regarding her tantrums. After recording her tantrums for a few weeks my daughter has been working very hard at it and has not recorded a tantrum for approx. 3 weeks. She still has her meltdowns and frustrated moments but she no longer throws herself on the floor or takes it out on me... There could be a number of things these kids to through when they get frustrated, feeling no one understands what they are experiencing, why me, help me stop thinking this way, can anyone help me, and my mommy always makes me feel better how come she is not making me feel better now? I hope my response helps you out.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your insight, Debbie.

Our therapist has described 's OCD as mild, consisting mainly of

handwashing and some phobias (fear of tornadoes, elevators, etc.), so

I've been taken off guard by the violent behavior he is now exhibiting.

He used to have tantrums, but now they are definitely rages. He used to

would try to destroy belongings, but now he's actually trying to hurt

his father physically (not that a 10-year-old has much of a chance with

that). I don't get any answers out of when he's calm, but when

he's in a rage and I ask him why he's doing that, he answers, " Because

I have to. " That sounds like an OCD response to me, however this all is

still very new to me.

My husband may have suffered with Tourettes but has managed to overcome

it. There was a time when he blinked incessantly and had to check every

lock many times to make sure it was locked and make sure appliances

were unplugged. He described himself as being " safe " -- I just thought

he was (is) anal retentive! Now I know that could have inherited

some of those genes from his father, and I have suffered through some

depression myself and made it through the rough times with Paxil. Of

course now I feel the depression returning because it seems like I am

totally overwhelmed with 's problems, marital problems, and just

life in general.

's paternal grandfather heard a lecture/discussion about depression

and now has suggested that perhaps is manic depressive/bipolar.

While some of the characteristics ring true, others do not. He can have

quick mood swings where he is quite happy or content and the next

instant he's in a rage. I just don't know enough to discern the

difference between bipolar and an OCD rage. Joni was kind to direct me

to a web site about bipolar in children (www.bpkids.org), but I'm still

unsure about what is what.

Our therapist has admitted that she doesn't know much about bipolar, so

she can't offer much guidance about that, and this same therapist

doesn't know E/RP either. I cannot find anyone in Chapel Hill or

Durham, N.C., -- too hotbeds of medical expertise, with March

himself being at Duke -- who knows OCD therapy and is taking new

patients. The therapists in our area on the OC Foundation's list are

not taking new patients, so we find ourselves on impossible waiting

lists. So it seems we're stuck with a therapist who can't provide the

therapy we need for the time being. It's so frustrating I feel like

having a rage myself!

I welcome more insight on the differences between OCD rages and bipolar

behavior, because right now I'm confused about that and frustrated with

the mental health community in my area for not being able to meet our

needs. I'm sure many of you can relate.

Thanks.

--

> Dear , I went through similar behavior actions with my daughter when her

OCD peaked back in Jan-Feb. I had no idea if it was the OCD or my mothering or

my spoiled little 8 year old girl. She too would speak very rudely to me, hit

me, kick me, punch me and push me away when she was having an episode or a so

called melt down. I had no idea what to do except cry.

> Luckily we had just started with her new therapist who specializes with

children who have OCD when my daughter was having a melt down and asking me to

hurt her! I immediately left a message for the therapist and she told me that

the children feel so out of control when they are having obsessions and some

children behave by taking it out on Mommy because they are scared and they want

to be in control of the situation. The bottom line is, yes it is OCD related

behavior. I waited months before I was able to get this answer and explanation.

We have been with this therapist for approx. 2 months and after she saw my

daughter a few times and started our CBT she gave us a behavior chart and it was

divided into three parts for every day (morning to lunch, lunch to dinner,

dinner to bedtime) Everytime my daughter had a tantrum we had to give her a

check mark and we needed to bring the chart back weekly. I believe it was an

embarrassment to my daughter knowing I spoke to her therapist regarding her

tantrums. After recording her tantrums for a few weeks my daughter has been

working very hard at it and has not recorded a tantrum for approx. 3 weeks. She

still has her meltdowns and frustrated moments but she no longer throws herself

on the floor or takes it out on me... There could be a number of things these

kids to through when they get frustrated, feeling no one understands what they

are experiencing, why me, help me stop thinking this way, can anyone help me,

and my mommy always makes me feel better how come she is not making me feel

better now? I hope my response helps you out.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Hi Debra, Just read your response to about the tantrums and the outrageous behavior. Thanks for the chart idea. I think I will use for my son. His behavior is so out of control sometimes. If I mention it to anyone that knows Dan they say they can not believe he would do such things. A year ago things were normal. Z.

Re: violent behavior

Dear , I went through similar behavior actions with my daughter when her OCD peaked back in Jan-Feb. I had no idea if it was the OCD or my mothering or my spoiled little 8 year old girl. She too would speak very rudely to me, hit me, kick me, punch me and push me away when she was having an episode or a so called melt down. I had no idea what to do except cry. Luckily we had just started with her new therapist who specializes with children who have OCD when my daughter was having a melt down and asking me to hurt her! I immediately left a message for the therapist and she told me that the children feel so out of control when they are having obsessions and some children behave by taking it out on Mommy because they are scared and they want to be in control of the situation. The bottom line is, yes it is OCD related behavior. I waited months before I was able to get this answer and explanation. We have been with this therapist for approx. 2 months and after she saw my daughter a few times and started our CBT she gave us a behavior chart and it was divided into three parts for every day (morning to lunch, lunch to dinner, dinner to bedtime) Everytime my daughter had a tantrum we had to give her a check mark and we needed to bring the chart back weekly. I believe it was an embarrassment to my daughter knowing I spoke to her therapist regarding her tantrums. After recording her tantrums for a few weeks my daughter has been working very hard at it and has not recorded a tantrum for approx. 3 weeks. She still has her meltdowns and frustrated moments but she no longer throws herself on the floor or takes it out on me... There could be a number of things these kids to through when they get frustrated, feeling no one understands what they are experiencing, why me, help me stop thinking this way, can anyone help me, and my mommy always makes me feel better how come she is not making me feel better now? I hope my response helps you out. Debbie You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the OCD and Homeschooling List at ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at . Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at lharkins@... .

[Guest guest]

n has been getting violent lately. Whenever he gets mad, he will hit me,

hit dh, and hit himself. He bangs his head on the wall, pulls out his eyebrows,

pulls my hair, punches himself in the leg when we tell him no. He's been taking

mental health at school to help but it seems like his behavior has gotten worse.

He's 4 by the way. I don't know what to do. Any suggestions?