Guest guest Posted January 4, 1980 Report Share Posted January 4, 1980 yeahhhh maddie, dont want to mess those highly fashionable wardrobe:) shawna. Re: Potty training Hey Gang, Speaking of potty training, *I* actually have a little brag. Miss Maddie pee pee'd on the toilet yesterday morning before school. She done #2 for me before but this was the first time for #1. Yeah!! Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 1999 Report Share Posted October 3, 1999 Does anyone have info on this product? In Love And Service, D. Kline, aka DwarfStar http://www.dwarfism.org potty training My friend's son is a dwarf and is experiencing problems potty training with b.m.s at age 5. She heard of a potty called pottysaurus, but cannot find it any where. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 1999 Report Share Posted October 3, 1999 they sell/sold them at Zellers. potty training > > >My friend's son is a dwarf and is experiencing problems potty training with >b.m.s at age 5. She heard of a potty called pottysaurus, but cannot find it >any where. Any suggestions? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2000 Report Share Posted February 12, 2000 was potty trained for a while (a few years back - I think he might have gone a whole year without an accident). When he started having accidents again, we looked to see what had disrupted his routine and could find nothing. He just regressed. I don't think he can catch it in time. To take the pressure off of him, I just bought the big pull-ups. I let him wear underwear if he chooses, but the first accident, we just put a pull-up on. He seldom has an accident in the pull-up. I think maybe he likes the feel of peeing in boxer shorts <big grin> loriann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2000 Report Share Posted February 12, 2000 was potty trained for a while (a few years back - I think he might have gone a whole year without an accident). When he started having accidents again, we looked to see what had disrupted his routine and could find nothing. He just regressed. I don't think he can catch it in time. To take the pressure off of him, I just bought the big pull-ups. I let him wear underwear if he chooses, but the first accident, we just put a pull-up on. He seldom has an accident in the pull-up. I think maybe he likes the feel of peeing in boxer shorts <big grin> loriann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2000 Report Share Posted February 12, 2000 has never (hope I'm not cursing myself) had a nighttime accident. He has trouble during the day. He also doesn't have bm trouble, he always uses the potty for that. With a pull-up, he has less wet accidents. Go figure. Just proves how different all our kids are. loriann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2000 Report Share Posted February 12, 2000 In a message dated 02/09/2000 9:09:26 PM Central Standard Time, Davejason@... writes: << The strange thing is, he used to use the potty and was almost potty trained 3 years ago. But at that point, he suddenly regressed and stopped using (or trying) the potty at home. >> Dave and Pat -- This potty training regression happened to also. I'm told it is fairly common for kids with DS-ASD. Hang in there! Maureen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2000 Report Share Posted February 12, 2000 Loriann Matt wears the big pull-ups at night, but when I put them on in the day, he fells he has free reign to never see a bathroom. He will not have a bm in the toilet, so he uses a pull-up each time. (75+ cents per poop!) S ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2000 Report Share Posted February 12, 2000 Loriann Matt wears the big pull-ups at night, but when I put them on in the day, he fells he has free reign to never see a bathroom. He will not have a bm in the toilet, so he uses a pull-up each time. (75+ cents per poop!) S ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2000 Report Share Posted February 14, 2000 Hannah regressed with potty training too. I blamed it on the transition from foster care to here during the adoption process. I think my mistake was putting pullups on her. It was as if I gave her permission to wet her pants..........wish I could turn back the hands of time. But in looking back maybe it relieved one of the many stresses of making one more move to one more family (and especially THIS wild, loud, obnoxious, who-knows-what-will-happen-next group she ended up with!). Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2000 Report Share Posted August 14, 2000 WAY TO GO DEREK!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2000 Report Share Posted December 7, 2000 i think potty training is an ongoing thing for quite some thime for our kids, weve been training with nathan since he was 3yrs, and he is 9 now and still has accidents, mainly at noc, and we're having some bm troubles off and on again, but i know some have done that shut in thing, with some progress, but have to build from that. shawna. potty training > Yesterday my younger son (NDA) and husband have gone to Spokane WA to visit > family and so I will be alone with all weekend (and of course on > Friday, my extra day off, has an in-service day - and I was so > looking forward to a full day to myself!). Anyway, I thought that I would > give the " Potty Training in Less than a Day " a try. This system worked > very well for another child in my town when he was around 's age > (6yo) BUT he is very high functioning. Has anyone tried this method for > their child? functions at about a 2yo level with scatter above > and below. > > I have my doubts about doing this on my own (without my stronger husband to > help " encourage " him to sit on the potty) but I am trying to psych myself > up for it! > > > Pat - mom to (6yo, DS, ADHD, sensory issues) and (2.5yo and > currently being spoiled rotten by his paternal grandparents!) - who wishes > that she too were on vacation in Spokane rather than at work! > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2000 Report Share Posted December 7, 2000 I would try making using the potty part of his routine, through out the day, having him in the bathroom for say 5min every couple hours during the day hour and eventually have him try using the toilet, doesnt have to at first, needs to be comfortable with the bathroom first i think, make sure he sees others go, this has been a big help with nathan, he has seen us and his little brother go and get rewards (those are a biggie, must find a reward he will do mast anything for)Even nowadays when one of us goes nathan does a little " yaaaaa " for us the yippe potty dance is always fun, lol, things like stickers didnt work for nathan, as neither do sweets hes not much of a candy eater especially no m & m's for him, but your child might like them or is able to chew properly. Hope this helps some, all the luck to you. shawna. potty training > Our son has this dual diagnosis. It seems to us that the > stand offishness of the autisum seems to balance out the sometimes > over affectioness of the Downs. Our big problem with Pat at this time > is that he is not potty trained and has NO INTEREST what-so-ever in > becoming so. He will go with you and praise someones elses efforts to > high heaven, but when you turn to him and even LOOK as if you are > going to ask him if he wants to try, you have never seen anyone move > so fast the other way. Any suggestions? We also have developing > words. He babbles a lot, but words are coming more and more. He is > smart as a whip, been running a computer for 5 years and knows what he > is doing. > > Bill Shelton wshelton@... > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2000 Report Share Posted December 7, 2000 I agree, don't ask him to go potty at first. Since he runs when you ask, your first goal should be to get him to stay, even if he doesn't say no. Then have him communicate no (or yes) is some form, shake of the head, sign language, whatever. THEN may get him used to sitting on the potty with his clothes on. Have you considered getting the video, Once Upon a Potty? I almost didn't get it for my 17 month old, but we watched it several times and put the potty in the living room for him to play with. He's getting the idea, even though they say don't try until they're 2. I know it's a different case with a special needs child, and just barely beat out his brother as he's just now potty trained at 10-1/2. But that's my sage (not!) advice. Loriann Wife to Dewight Mom to , 10 years, Down Syndrome and ? And , 17 months and Strong Willed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2000 Report Share Posted December 7, 2000 Hi. Sorry can't help with potty training in a day. is 5 and potty trained now, but it took two years. Do you live in Washington? I live at Lake Chelan, WA, which is in Eastern WA. > Yesterday my younger son (NDA) and husband have gone to Spokane WA to visit > family and so I will be alone with all weekend (and of course on > Friday, my extra day off, has an in-service day - and I was so > looking forward to a full day to myself!). Anyway, I thought that I would > give the " Potty Training in Less than a Day " a try. This system worked > very well for another child in my town when he was around 's age > (6yo) BUT he is very high functioning. Has anyone tried this method for > their child? functions at about a 2yo level with scatter above > and below. > > I have my doubts about doing this on my own (without my stronger husband to > help " encourage " him to sit on the potty) but I am trying to psych myself > up for it! > > > Pat - mom to (6yo, DS, ADHD, sensory issues) and (2.5yo and > currently being spoiled rotten by his paternal grandparents!) - who wishes > that she too were on vacation in Spokane rather than at work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2000 Report Share Posted December 10, 2000 Hi , I think that your question was for me - no I don't live in WA state. My husband grew up in Spokane though, and all of his family still lives there. We live in NJ but have lots of frequent flier miles (and use them regularly) so DH and my younger son went for a long weekend. I have been to Lake Chelan though, it is beautiful! Pat - mom to (6 DS,ADHD...) and (2.5) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 In a message dated 4/2/01 9:36:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jmedlen@... writes: > http://eccentrix.com/business/parenting/ > > Joan, I looked at this website and while it sounds great for a parent of a toddler, she doesn' t mention kids with special needs. Do you know if she has any experience with kids like ours? Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 In a message dated 4/2/01 9:36:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jmedlen@... writes: > http://eccentrix.com/business/parenting/ > > OOOPPPS! Ok, so I didn't read far enough! LOL Thanks, Joan. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2001 Report Share Posted May 16, 2001 In a message dated 5/16/01 12:20:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, writes: > I > will start with the question that has been hanging over me for a > while. POTTY TRAINING!!!! When and How? He likes to flush > especially toilet paper, rolls and rolls. My husband wonders why I > buy so much. He just doen't have the attention span to sit for more > than 2 seconds. His teachers tried this year, but said that he > doesn't have a schedule for it. She was putting him on every hour, > but wouldn't go and then right after you put a new diaper on... Our > biggest problem with this is that even as a baby, could care > less that he is soaking wet. He'd run around all day with a dripping > wet diaper soak through his pants and shirt and not care at all. > > Oh boy, another similiarity!!!! My is the exact same way and he is > 8......I think it's mainly because of the fact that he is so hyper and > impulsive that we haven't been able to potty train him yet......what > baffles me, is that there are plenty of much " lower functioning " students > that have been potty trained years before , so I really think it's an > attention span thing.....they just won't sit long enough to do anything > productive, and when they " go " in their pants, it's because they don't want > to miss out on any action going on around them! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2001 Report Share Posted May 16, 2001 Exactly!! We haven't had the up all night problem yet, but putting him to bed, AHHHHH! We let him fall asleep on the couch with us because it's better than the three to four hours of putting him back in bed. He thinks he's missing something. Maybe it 's a thing!! Re: Potty Training > In a message dated 5/16/01 12:20:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > writes: > > > > I > > will start with the question that has been hanging over me for a > > while. POTTY TRAINING!!!! When and How? He likes to flush > > especially toilet paper, rolls and rolls. My husband wonders why I > > buy so much. He just doen't have the attention span to sit for more > > than 2 seconds. His teachers tried this year, but said that he > > doesn't have a schedule for it. She was putting him on every hour, > > but wouldn't go and then right after you put a new diaper on... Our > > biggest problem with this is that even as a baby, could care > > less that he is soaking wet. He'd run around all day with a dripping > > wet diaper soak through his pants and shirt and not care at all. > > > > Oh boy, another similiarity!!!! My is the exact same way and he is > > 8......I think it's mainly because of the fact that he is so hyper and > > impulsive that we haven't been able to potty train him yet......what > > baffles me, is that there are plenty of much " lower functioning " students > > that have been potty trained years before , so I really think it's an > > attention span thing.....they just won't sit long enough to do anything > > productive, and when they " go " in their pants, it's because they don't want > > to miss out on any action going on around them! > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2001 Report Share Posted May 16, 2001 Exactly!! We haven't had the up all night problem yet, but putting him to bed, AHHHHH! We let him fall asleep on the couch with us because it's better than the three to four hours of putting him back in bed. He thinks he's missing something. Maybe it 's a thing!! Re: Potty Training > In a message dated 5/16/01 12:20:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > writes: > > > > I > > will start with the question that has been hanging over me for a > > while. POTTY TRAINING!!!! When and How? He likes to flush > > especially toilet paper, rolls and rolls. My husband wonders why I > > buy so much. He just doen't have the attention span to sit for more > > than 2 seconds. His teachers tried this year, but said that he > > doesn't have a schedule for it. She was putting him on every hour, > > but wouldn't go and then right after you put a new diaper on... Our > > biggest problem with this is that even as a baby, could care > > less that he is soaking wet. He'd run around all day with a dripping > > wet diaper soak through his pants and shirt and not care at all. > > > > Oh boy, another similiarity!!!! My is the exact same way and he is > > 8......I think it's mainly because of the fact that he is so hyper and > > impulsive that we haven't been able to potty train him yet......what > > baffles me, is that there are plenty of much " lower functioning " students > > that have been potty trained years before , so I really think it's an > > attention span thing.....they just won't sit long enough to do anything > > productive, and when they " go " in their pants, it's because they don't want > > to miss out on any action going on around them! > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2001 Report Share Posted May 16, 2001 we had up all night probs when nathan was younger too, he is often still awake during the nite, but has learned to stay in his room, usually looks at his books, and going to bed is a routine we've developed through the years, but that doesnt mean, as many kids, he wont try his hardest to get out of going to bed, and if we let him stay downstairs on the couch, he stays up most of the night watching tv or videos, or games. if the couch things works stick with it,it seems to be part of his routine. shawna. --- TollyTX <tollytx@...> wrote: > Exactly!! We haven't had the up all night problem > yet, but putting him to > bed, AHHHHH! We let him fall asleep on the couch > with us because it's > better than the three to four hours of putting him > back in bed. He thinks > he's missing something. Maybe it 's a thing!! > > > Re: Potty Training > > > > In a message dated 5/16/01 12:20:31 PM Pacific > Daylight Time, > > writes: > > > > > > > I > > > will start with the question that has been > hanging over me for a > > > while. POTTY TRAINING!!!! When and How? He > likes to flush > > > especially toilet paper, rolls and rolls. My > husband wonders why I > > > buy so much. He just doen't have the attention > span to sit for more > > > than 2 seconds. His teachers tried this year, > but said that he > > > doesn't have a schedule for it. She was putting > him on every hour, > > > but wouldn't go and then right after you put a > new diaper on... Our > > > biggest problem with this is that even as a > baby, could care > > > less that he is soaking wet. He'd run around > all day with a dripping > > > wet diaper soak through his pants and shirt and > not care at all. > > > > > > Oh boy, another similiarity!!!! My is the > exact same way and he is > > > 8......I think it's mainly because of the fact > that he is so hyper and > > > impulsive that we haven't been able to potty > train him yet......what > > > baffles me, is that there are plenty of much > " lower functioning " > students > > > that have been potty trained years before , > so I really think it's > an > > > attention span thing.....they just won't sit > long enough to do anything > > > productive, and when they " go " in their pants, > it's because they don't > want > > > to miss out on any action going on around them! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Checkout our homepage for information, > bookmarks, and photos > of our kids. Share favorite bookmarks, ideas, and > other information by > including them. Don't forget, messages are a > permanent record of the > archives for our list. > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2001 Report Share Posted May 16, 2001 nathan is 9yrs will be ten this august, and still occasionally bm's his pants, but is finally very good at voiding in the toilet. In a booklet i got form one of our healthcare companies a few years back, it had some helpful hints. we started when nathan was three, big mistake and he still has " accidents " we notice them more if he is doing something of great inportance to HIM. Also if he has his pull-up on he will definately go in them. Actually we find he does the best in just plain shorts or pants, no undies or pull-up. the plastic in pull-ups often give him a rash. But anyways, back to the book. It says when you start, first choose a certain time frame of the day NOT NIGHT, thats a different issue, say he is more interested between 8 and 10am, maybe have him go every hour during this time, ONLY. Then as he starts to actually go during this time in the toilet, and staying dry, add some more time, a small amount like 15min increments, try to get it spaced out to going every couple hours during the day.I know after we got this far, we got it spaced out at home at certain times in the morning first thing, mid morning, after lunch, mid afternoon, and aftersupper, after meal times are always good, usually they have to go and they need to wash up, at least ntahan does he is a messy marvin,lol, its part of his routine. And most of all dont forget lots of fun yipeetiyaa praise, or what your son likes for rewards, we found singing, cheering and dancing worked excellent for nathan. Another thing i suggest is use of pull-ups, gets use to pant like proceedure, and letting him go in to the bathroom when someone else in family does to see you going and then let him have a turn, nathan will often go yaaaa, good job for us even,lol. We are lately at the point of nathan even taking himself at home, and coming out going " seee! " pointing at his pants,smiling. So we're getting there, its been a long slow process but its coming. If you want any of the nightime info just let me know shawna. --- Ltb3105@... wrote: > In a message dated 5/16/01 12:20:31 PM Pacific > Daylight Time, > writes: > > > > I > > will start with the question that has been hanging > over me for a > > while. POTTY TRAINING!!!! When and How? He > likes to flush > > especially toilet paper, rolls and rolls. My > husband wonders why I > > buy so much. He just doen't have the attention > span to sit for more > > than 2 seconds. His teachers tried this year, but > said that he > > doesn't have a schedule for it. She was putting > him on every hour, > > but wouldn't go and then right after you put a new > diaper on... Our > > biggest problem with this is that even as a baby, > could care > > less that he is soaking wet. He'd run around all > day with a dripping > > wet diaper soak through his pants and shirt and > not care at all. > > > > Oh boy, another similiarity!!!! My is the > exact same way and he is > > 8......I think it's mainly because of the fact > that he is so hyper and > > impulsive that we haven't been able to potty train > him yet......what > > baffles me, is that there are plenty of much > " lower functioning " students > > that have been potty trained years before , so > I really think it's an > > attention span thing.....they just won't sit long > enough to do anything > > productive, and when they " go " in their pants, > it's because they don't want > > to miss out on any action going on around them! > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Checkout our homepage for information, > bookmarks, and photos of our kids. Share favorite > bookmarks, ideas, and other information by including > them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent record > of the archives for our list. > > -------------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2001 Report Share Posted May 16, 2001 Oh! i forgot to mention in that lengthy email,sorry, that with nathan we also had him take his own soiled clothes off, wash himself, sometimes shower if really messy bm, and get dressed all with supervision, but he had to work hard, for him, showing him its much easier to use the toilet than have to go through that every time And we made up songs and read books with his fav characters, even watched some videos on using the toilet. and even if we ask nathan, we do every time he messes himslef, where does nathan go? he will reply " nathan poopoo oilet " so he knows.shawna --- Ltb3105@... wrote: > In a message dated 5/16/01 12:20:31 PM Pacific > Daylight Time, > writes: > > > > I > > will start with the question that has been hanging > over me for a > > while. POTTY TRAINING!!!! When and How? He > likes to flush > > especially toilet paper, rolls and rolls. My > husband wonders why I > > buy so much. He just doen't have the attention > span to sit for more > > than 2 seconds. His teachers tried this year, but > said that he > > doesn't have a schedule for it. She was putting > him on every hour, > > but wouldn't go and then right after you put a new > diaper on... Our > > biggest problem with this is that even as a baby, > could care > > less that he is soaking wet. He'd run around all > day with a dripping > > wet diaper soak through his pants and shirt and > not care at all. > > > > Oh boy, another similiarity!!!! My is the > exact same way and he is > > 8......I think it's mainly because of the fact > that he is so hyper and > > impulsive that we haven't been able to potty train > him yet......what > > baffles me, is that there are plenty of much > " lower functioning " students > > that have been potty trained years before , so > I really think it's an > > attention span thing.....they just won't sit long > enough to do anything > > productive, and when they " go " in their pants, > it's because they don't want > > to miss out on any action going on around them! > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Checkout our homepage for information, > bookmarks, and photos of our kids. Share favorite > bookmarks, ideas, and other information by including > them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent record > of the archives for our list. > > -------------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2001 Report Share Posted May 16, 2001 we still often use a timer for nathan when he needs to do his doodee, lol, and let him look at a book, this way with his short attention he will sit for at least 5 minutes and we occasionally remind to push and he gets excited every little pebble,lol. We've been real excited, lately a few times nathan has yelled for for one of us, usually me, and we go check and he goes see, poopoo, so we help him wipe up with his popup wipes, those had to be invented by a mom,lol. He is getting good, and uses those at school too. shawna. --- UrthMan <outerspace@...> wrote: > Hi > This is Kathy (my son scott is 11) was not > potty trained until he was 10 years old. > I had contacted Alta Regional to help me. They sent > me a behavior therapist from a school > that teaches only autistic children to our home. > The therapist would come 1 day a week for > 3-4 hours for about 2 months. We worked on > communication beside the potty training. We had > tried previously to potty train him ourselves and we > felt that he was not ready. > > The therapist told us keep a chart and I gave the > school charts as well. We began on a Saturday > morning and we had to bring him into the bathroom > every 15 minutes. We set an egg timer > to go off and he would understand what that meant. > Those 15 minutes seemd like 1 by the end > of the day, The next day we started out with every > 15 minutes and we extended it to 30 minutes > and on Monday morning the school had to continue on > the same program and in a couple of > days after we noticed that he was doing well we > extended it to every 1 hour. He never wet > his pants at school or outside - it was only when he > was at home in his room-where he felt > comfortable or sometimes to lazy to get up and go to > the bathroom. It has never bothered > to have wet pants or soiled pants. He would > stay in those pants all day if he could. > The chart was helpful in the fact that it showed us > his toileting patterns. It seemed that at 4:00 in > the afternoon would be the time for his BM and on > some days he would have as many as 5 BM's . > > We then worked out a schedule (from looking at his > past charts) and we would encourage him > to use the bathroom more during those hours when he > seemed to have his accidents. That worked and > since then he has done very well. When we started > the potty training we also made sure we taught > him to wash and dry his hands each and every time. > Today he is idependent in that area. > I will tell you that one book that we found to be > EXCELLENT is " STEPS TO INDEPENDENCE " > by Bruce L. Baker. ABC school for autism (they sent > the therapist to our home) required you to have > this book and learn from it or they would not send > the therapist to your house, and that book turned > out to be the best book that I have read. It is > more than a reading book , it has charts and > examples > of task-sequencing and how to break each project > into small steps. It has many examples of home > and school lessons. > > Good Luck > Kathy > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Checkout our homepage for information, > bookmarks, and photos of our kids. Share favorite > bookmarks, ideas, and other information by including > them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent record > of the archives for our list. > > -------------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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