IEP question

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/28/00 3:02:27 PM Central Daylight Time,

bearswife1@... writes:

<< Hello all,

started school last Thursday. As I

dropped him off, I was informed that he no longer had

an indiv. aid. Well that didn't last very long

because it is in his IEP that he is to have one. My

husband () got on the phone and today he had (a

temporary) one. His IEP is up at the end of Sept. but

they moved it up to Sept. 6th. On Friday, was

assured that would have an aid on Monday and

we wouldn't have a problem getting it into his IEP

again for this year. This morning his teacher told me

that Mid-State Special Ed would be trying to get an

individual classroom aid instead of an individual aid.

Mid-State reduced the number of aids throughout the

school district from 84 to 32. His teacher told me to

document all the times he needs one on one attention

and she would do the same. OK after a big lead in, my

question. How much individual assistance is needed to

justify an individual aid vs. an individual classroom

aid. If they refuse to budge and we refuse to budge

and don't sign the IEP, then what happens. Mid-State

has already lied to us once telling us that 's

teacher told them this summer that she didn't feel

needed an indiv. aid this year. His teacher

didn't even find out until the day before school

started that his aid was taken away. Also, his

teacher is pushing for an indiv. aid and not a

classroom aid. We live in Illinois and I know that

laws are different in all states but any help would be

much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Tracey~(4½ds),Holly(6),Brent(10)

>>

Tracey,

I don't know the specifics especially since our district does NOT do

individual aides. They will provide one on one but not assign a specific aide.

Anyway, the way we justify the one on one is to show that the child needs

unlimited access to the person such as for at the moment toileting. Or that

the child needs constant redirection or assistance. Such as a child that gets

out of their chair if not closely monitored, or darts off, or refuses to go

with the class. My argument is that the aide can be left alone with the class

and then isn't available to meet those immediate needs that can't be

scheduled. What ifs....what if the aide is walking the class to gym and

drops to the ground and refuses to continue on? Does she leave

or the whole class?

The teacher steps out of the room and while she is out has a wetting

or BM accident? Is the class left unattended or is left to sit and

wait?

Just my examples to the IEP team.

Karyn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/28/2000 1:48:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

KVanRyzin@... writes:

<< They will provide one on one but not assign a specific aide. >>

Hmm... Can they NOT assign a specific aide if it is requested in the child's

IEP?

For Mav we requested that they hired a new aide NOT associated with the

school district. They agreed to it.

She is known as the " classroom aide " for inclusion purposes and she works

with other kids in the class....but Mav is her priority.....when he needs

her....she is with him.

[Guest guest]

Tracey,

has an aide for these reasons:

Safety, he has a history of wandering behaviors. We had to wait until he did

this at school before the school acted upon it..no child should be put at

risk..if your child wanders, advocate strongly for this.

Total Communication, he needs constant TC for speech and language

Personal Hygeine, he needs assistance in toileting, washing hands, etc. He

does do well in these areas, but he does need prompting to go. There are

times he may sit on the toilet for quite awhile, too. Accidents are rare,

but they do occur. Miss also has worked with him on getting dressed,

OT goals, etc...

Acedemics, modifying curriculum. needs hands on assistance for

acedemics and modification. Miss helps him stay on task, while also

using TC. She works close with the Sped and Reg teacher on modifications.

We are going to add a goal for feeding. He recently had a speech eval for

apraxia. will take huge bites of food, sometimes jamming more than

he can chew into his mouth. Miss will work with him on bite, chew,

swallow, clear, using a picture board. This will be an OT goal.

Right now the only time Miss is not needed is if he is getting direct

Speech therapy, but she (I believe) goes to carry over ST goals throughout

the day.

Be thankful your teacher is advocating for an individual aide. She knows

without one, 's placement will not be sucessful.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/28/2000 3:59:10 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

gboughton@... writes:

<< Can I ask what was your reason for requesting this? >>

WELL, the reason was/is that we ended up filing a due process against the

school district. The school and all it's staff were opposed to Mav being

included. The sp ed dept was especially opposed. The aides they had working

with him had to take turns coming out of the sp ed room and working with him.

They were very mean...physically and emotionally to him. We took him out

of school until everything was settled. (they gave in 3 days before the due

process). One of our requirements was that they get a new/unbiased aide.

Along with inclusion training, possitive behavior management training, sign

language training, and an inclusion specialist hired.

Mav had the same aide for 1st grade and part of second. Then he got a new

one for the rest of 2nd and third and now she is still with him in 4th. She

is struggling right now about whether to stay or not due to unfair pressure

being put on her by the principal and other aides who are opposed to Mav

getting " special " treatment. But, she is great, he loves her and works so

hard for her and she is the one constant in his school life.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/28/00 6:33:48 PM, egroups writes:

<< Right now the only time Miss is not needed is if he is getting

direct

Speech therapy, but she (I believe) goes to carry over ST goals throughout

the day. >>

What about PE? I can't see Kellen's aide chasing him around during

PE....What do other people do?

Jodi

[Guest guest]

<<For Mav we requested that they hired a new aide NOT associated with the

school district. They agreed to it.>>

Hi ,

Can I ask what was your reason for requesting this?

Ted used to have the same aide he had for K, 1, and half of

second. Once I asked about marks on Ted they switched

to 3 or more rotating...I never knew who was with Ted.

His behavior got worse at school. I'm really struggling

as to what is best for him. I've heard of a personal care

assistant(PCA)(Ted can't wipe himself) a teachers

assistant (TA). At times I

feel as if this _aide_ thing (one on one) is really more of

a bouncers job and teaching my kid instead of the reg ed

teacher.

Gail

[Guest guest]

An aide is a support that is provided so that he can " benefit from his

education. " Does he need the one on one support in the sped classroom.

Does he have behavior problems? Does he go to any regular classrooms in

which he would need extra support? How far behind would he get without a

one-on-one aide? Just some questions to answer to hopefully help you defend

your position.

Elaine

IEP question

> Hello all,

>

> started school last Thursday. As I

> dropped him off, I was informed that he no longer had

> an indiv. aid. Well that didn't last very long

> because it is in his IEP that he is to have one. My

> husband () got on the phone and today he had (a

> temporary) one. His IEP is up at the end of Sept. but

> they moved it up to Sept. 6th. On Friday, was

> assured that would have an aid on Monday and

> we wouldn't have a problem getting it into his IEP

> again for this year. This morning his teacher told me

> that Mid-State Special Ed would be trying to get an

> individual classroom aid instead of an individual aid.

> Mid-State reduced the number of aids throughout the

> school district from 84 to 32. His teacher told me to

> document all the times he needs one on one attention

> and she would do the same. OK after a big lead in, my

> question. How much individual assistance is needed to

> justify an individual aid vs. an individual classroom

> aid. If they refuse to budge and we refuse to budge

> and don't sign the IEP, then what happens. Mid-State

> has already lied to us once telling us that 's

> teacher told them this summer that she didn't feel

> needed an indiv. aid this year. His teacher

> didn't even find out until the day before school

> started that his aid was taken away. Also, his

> teacher is pushing for an indiv. aid and not a

> classroom aid. We live in Illinois and I know that

> laws are different in all states but any help would be

> much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

>

> Tracey~(4½ds),Holly(6),Brent(10)

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Tim has an aide (called a CSA, child support assistant, here) for 25 hours

support a week. She does 1:1 work on speech every day, usually a 30 minute

pullout to the library (a very small quiet room with a few books in it!!) in

the afternoon. She directs him and also does some 1:1 work during literacy

and numeracy hours (government initiatives in primary education), she

ensures he is fully included in classroom activities and encourages the same

during playtime and lunch (tho she is not actually there then). She helps

him in the toilet and with hygiene. She does not go into class with him to

do PE tho she does sometimes go in afterwards if he is being particularly

slow to dress, she does not go into music with him becoz he is well able to

do both these things at a level he enjoys and can gain from without support.

Basically she is there whenever he needs her and she moves away when he does

not. Half her job is to make herself redundant in the quest to give him

independance. Altho she is funded for 25 hours support the actually hours

she spends in direct 1:1 support are much less, but as tims needs in support

are not predicatable or confined to certain sessions in the day she needs to

be around and avaible on a " just in case " basis. This frees her to prepare

resources for tim and the rest of the class, to support other kids with SEN

who don't get specific extra support and to support the class teacher

generally throught the day. But her primary responsibility is to tim, if

tim needs her then its tim she sees to but one of tims IEP goals is for

greater independance so she needs to step back as much as she can.

Sue Wong

Re: IEP question

>

> In a message dated 8/28/00 6:33:48 PM, egroups writes:

>

> << Right now the only time Miss is not needed is if he is getting

> direct

>

> Speech therapy, but she (I believe) goes to carry over ST goals throughout

>

> the day. >>

>

> What about PE? I can't see Kellen's aide chasing him around during

> PE....What do other people do?

> Jodi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Elaine,

Under the Continuum of Services, it starts out with

( ) Reg ed classroom with support services.

( ) Reg ed classroom with pull out services....

yadda yadda yadda with more and more sp

ed services until it gets to...

( ) Sp ed room over 60% of the time..

and on and on to residential, hospital...etc.

All the districts have different IEP forms, but there are certain things that

MUST be on them,,,,and this is pretty much the same for them all.

*** SO, my take on this is that since 2 are checked...and that does not seem

to be LEGAL, then, we need to go with the one that is least restrictive,

right?? Which means,,,,we can just keep her in the reg ed room and not have

her going back and forth 7 times a day.

We'll see what happens. We wrote goals for every area and made sure that all

the goals can easily be attained in the reg ed room. They will, of course,

come to the meeting with an already written IEP, but will find that they need

to rewrite it as we go along.

Should be interesting.

[Guest guest]

Sounds like bull to me. You can't check these two. Support cannot be over

a certain percentage in most states. I don't know how Arizona law is. If

she wants full inclusion, she will have to name the supports she feels she

needs to accomplish this and make it the " appropriate " placement. You

didn't say what grade the child is in. We always had a list of academic

goals, social and behavioral goals as well that needed to be accomplished in

reg. ed. Most parents don't know that schools must explain why the kid is

not in the LRE (least restrictive environment for you newbies out there).

Elaine

IEP question

> Hi,

> I am helping a friend with her IEP. On her IEP from last year on the

> Continuum of Placement page, they checked Reg Ed Classroom with support

> services AND sp ed classroom over 60% of the day.

> And, the services she is getting is sp ed over 60% of the day. The mother

> wants full inclusion with no pullout.

> Does anyone know if there CAN be two areas identified for services? And

if

> not, is it in writing anywhere? We have the IEP this week.

> Thanks,

>

>

>

>

> Please edit posts when replying!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I have had children on IEP's for the last 17 yrs and I have never had more

than one IEP for each child. Everything that needed to be on an IEP was in

that ONE IEP. I would really question them on this.

Also, be careful with the testing. There are many different types of tests

and some of them are more verbally directed and some aren't. Each child

responds differently to different cues and stimuli and these tests don't

always reflect their true ability or cognitive awareness.

[Guest guest]

GREAT idea to use follow up letters. I used them on certain issues...not as

many as I should have.

I would also ask to see a BLANK IEP form and see if it has all the related

services on one form or if they have separate forms for each. You can play

dumb and ask things like that since you are so new to it.....but do NOT let

them intimidate you or control things.

I also would recommend taping all your meetings. They will be careful what

they say, and you can go over it later to see what you missed!

[Guest guest]

You need to get a copy of your state laws ans SELPA gidelines to find out how

it is handled in your jurisdiction.

- Becky

[Guest guest]

Thanks . I thought it was rather odd and I asked to be sure

they meant it that way and they did assure me that there is a

completely separate IEP written for each service meaning OT, PT, ST

or resource pull-outs. Maybe that is just because we are getting

related services only, but they were certain on the point. I was

thinking of doing the follow-up letter and mentioning their

statement somewhere in that as well as stating that I understood

that an Individualized Education Plan is meant to cover every area

of education including classroom, related services, assistive

techology, etc.

Do you use the follow-up letters? Just wondering if that would be

the way to address that issue because we will meet to write

*another* IEP for the OT soon. I know there were a couple of things

that they misstated but not major concerns. I just want to pick my

battles and I am not on sure footing anyway at the moment being a

*newbie* The diagnostician seemed very strict and in total control

of the meeting.

Thanks for your input.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/24/2002 2:55:16 AM Central Daylight Time,

writes:

<<

Thanks . I thought it was rather odd and I asked to be sure

they meant it that way and they did assure me that there is a

completely separate IEP written for each service meaning OT, PT, ST

or resource pull-outs. Maybe that is just because we are getting

related services only, but they were certain on the point. I was

thinking of doing the follow-up letter and mentioning their

statement somewhere in that as well as stating that I understood

that an Individualized Education Plan is meant to cover every area

of education including classroom, related services, assistive

techology, etc.

Do you use the follow-up letters? Just wondering if that would be

the way to address that issue because we will meet to write

*another* IEP for the OT soon. I know there were a couple of things

that they misstated but not major concerns. I just want to pick my

battles and I am not on sure footing anyway at the moment being a

*newbie* The diagnostician seemed very strict and in total control

of the meeting.

Thanks for your input.

>>

Maybe this isn't such a big issue since she is receiving related services

only but, I would be concerned that if they compartmentalize things it will

decrease carry over. 's school used to do a separate page for each

specialist but then changed when it was " realized " that speech goals should

be part of the life skills, social, and academics. OT should be relates

similarly and PT and adaptive PE relate to reg. PE, recess, and social goals.

Maybe this is something that you could use to motivate a change.

Karyn

[Guest guest]

Years ago we had IEPs with a separate page (or pages) for each different type

of service. That could be what your school is thinking of. Go to your

state's department of education web site and see if they have a sample IEP

form (VA does)

Ask your state technicians at the department of ed for guidance, they will

answer your questions. It really sounds like your staff is planning on

modifying the IEP after the assessment results come in and adding a related

service by writing a separate page of goals and amending the service page ...

not writing two IEPs. Tell me, in this IEP meeting where you requested an OT

assessment be done, or requested OT services, did they document your request

.... anywhere, like in the minutes of the meeting?

FWIW, an " IQ assessent " where they asked you questions .... um, that's not an

assessment, that's a survey. ;-) If you consented to a pysch eval, including

IQ, then you should really have one done that can useful to you in the

future. I would hate to see them turn around and try to utilize whatever

they wroted down as a result of your answers as support for a label or

placement. And if it is in their records, that possibility exists.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/24/2002 5:00:21 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

Kvanryzin@... writes:

> I would be concerned that if they compartmentalize things it will

> decrease carry over. 's school used to do a separate page for each

> specialist but then changed when it was " realized " that speech goals should

> be part of the life skills, social, and academics.

Good Point Karyn, you must make sure the goals can be worked on continuously

through out the day and not just during their spefic therapy time and they

should be doable within the reg structure of the school day.

Being that she is so young, this can happen quite easily but it's important

to set your standards now.

Our school also uses a separate PAGE for each therapist and for Math, Social

skills, reading, etc. But they are all a part of the same IEP.

And, all school districts have their own IEP's that fit into what their state

regulations are, BUT all state regulations have to fit into what the federal

regulations are and their are some things you just can't change. (Although

states AND districts will try, which is why it is important to know IDEA.)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/24/2002 12:49:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

Michdock@... writes:

> GREAT idea to use follow up letters.

I always tell parents to do follow up documentation, even to phone calls.

" thank you for you call on (date) I am happy to hear you will initiate

(whatever) as we discussed in our meeting on (date) or if it is not

something you agree to, " In regards to your phone call on (date) and our

discussion regarding (whatever) I am concerned that you will not (whatever).

Always incorporate who, the date, and what. If it is something they are

doing that violates rights, a good way to pen the letter is the puzzled

Colombo method..... " I am a little confused by your statement that you do

not have to provide ....... could you please clarify that for me? " By

capturing the misinformation they gave you, they will either respond that

they did mean that (and you got them in writing if they are doing something

wrong) or they didn't mean that (and you got in writing that they are going

to do the right thing) or they don't respond which would mean agreement if

you have to go further along in a complaint.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/24/2002 8:25:29 AM Central Standard Time,

Michdock@... writes:

> Good Point Karyn, you must make sure the goals can be worked on continuously

> through out the day and not just during their spefic therapy time and they

> should be doable within the reg structure of the school day.

> Being that she is so young, this can happen quite easily but it's important

> to set your standards now.

HI

What a wonderful educational system we'd have if the professionals could only

incorporate the goals and objectives into the whole day ..... Like a matrix

I know here we have separate pages. Their explanation was for this that

each person was accountable, for recording progress etc..... Her OT goals

were then only ones at one time that were being carried to where ever Sara

was. Now Sara's learning how to make charts and graphs on her IEP. This would

be wonderful if they worked on this skill in Science and SS. Something Im

going to point out to them next week

Kathy mom to Sara 10 ....... maybe SARA needs to make the graph to point out

where her objectives can be worked on hmmmmmmm

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/24/2002 7:06:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

b4alltoday@... writes:

> What a wonderful educational system we'd have if the professionals could

> only

> incorporate the goals and objectives into the whole day ..... Like a matrix

>

There IS a technique like that, called a MAP (McGill Action Plan)

for an overview of McGill University's Special Ed program see:

http://www.education.mcgill.ca/mie/mtips.html

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/24/2002 9:39:31 AM Central Standard Time, RSYOSH@...

writes:

> > What a wonderful educational system we'd have if the professionals could

> > only

> > incorporate the goals and objectives into the whole day ..... Like a

> matrix

> >

>

> There IS a technique like that, called a MAP (McGill Action Plan)

>

> for an overview of McGill University's Special Ed program see:

>

> http://www.education.mcgill.ca/mie/mtips.html

>

> - Becky

HI Becky

Oh yes Ive read so much about this, even have been to workshops to learn how

to do this BUT the system acts like this is Greek uggggggg we have an Org

that can come into the schools and this is one of their recommendations too

........all ignored

Kathy mom to Sara 10

[Guest guest]

My son 8y nda gets ot, pt, speech. He is classified as regular ed with

related services. He has 1 iep with all listed up until this year he also

had a 1:1 para .

Maureen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/31/02 12:54:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

asearchers@... writes:

>

> > My daughter's OT has told me on two different occasions that Kaitlyn

> > needs to be seen by the developmental optomistrist. She thinks that

> > Kaitlyn needs vision therapy to help her move past midline. She

> switchs

> > hands depending on what side she is working. Probably a good

> point. My

> > question is this, this therapy is not free, do I call an IEP

> meeting and

> > request that this therapy be added? Will the school have to pay

> for it?

> > What language should I use when requesting this?

> >

> > Thanks for your help.

> > Darcy

>

>

>

has she been seen by a binocular vision specialist? Her eyes may not be

tracking together.

We've been going to a center at University of CA Berkeley and were able to

get a big improvement on both depth perception and reading thru a good

perscription.... the regular optometrist didn't have the ability to catch all

the nuances in her accuity.

- Becky

[Guest guest]

IEP_guide/links

hippotherapy is also good for this too

> My daughter's OT has told me on two different occasions that Kaitlyn

> needs to be seen by the developmental optomistrist. She thinks that

> Kaitlyn needs vision therapy to help her move past midline. She

switchs

> hands depending on what side she is working. Probably a good

point. My

> question is this, this therapy is not free, do I call an IEP

meeting and

> request that this therapy be added? Will the school have to pay

for it?

> What language should I use when requesting this?

>

> Thanks for your help.

> Darcy

[Guest guest]

We have the same problem with Bridget, just not the

extent that you are seeing it with Kaitlyn. Bridget

does not switch hands, but she sets up a self imposed

left margin.

Our OTs in school and in private therapy are both

working on this. The big thing was to get Bridget to

scan an area ( a page - looking for an object, i.e.

simple I Spy books; a shelf with different colored

bears in random order and then collecting the bears of

the same color using one hand to collect and the other

to hold the cup to put them in).

We are also working on patterning and follow a line

from one object to a related object across the page.

Ex)Down the left side of the page are a dog, a fish,

and a bird. Each has a black line drawn to the other

side of the page and all the lines intersect as in an

X. Bridget had to take the dog house and follow the

line from the dog to the other side of the page and

then glue the house at the end of the correct line

then do it for the other two animals. We had to do

different color lines at first then were able to

switch to all black.

We had a non-motor visual perceptual test done by the

OT at school. We were having problems transitioning

into the gym and cafeteria. So we started with a

sensory evaluation and found that Bridget did not have

protective reflexes for balls being thrown to and at

her. Also, she had a hard time sitting on the swing

or a barrel unless there was something in her hands to

distract her. We found she was not able to spatially

handle large open areas without some extra time to

process.

I hope this helps and makes sense. Email if you have

any questions.

mom to Bridget 9 ds

>

> > My daughter's OT has told me on two different

> occasions that Kaitlyn

> > needs to be seen by the developmental

> optomistrist. She thinks that

> > Kaitlyn needs vision therapy to help her move past

> midline. She

> switchs

> > hands depending on what side she is working.

> Probably a good

> point. My

> > question is this, this therapy is not free, do I

> call an IEP

> meeting and

> > request that this therapy be added? Will the

> school have to pay

> for it?

> > What language should I use when requesting this?

> >

> > Thanks for your help.

> > Darcy

>

>

__________________________________________________