VOTE NO TO MENTAL HEALTH PARITY

[Guest guest]

Here are 2 VERY fast actions you can take to fight against the abuses of

psychiatry:

 

1) Click below to sign a new petition being sent to President Bush to stop

the fraudulent psychiatric labeling and drugging of our kids <A

HREF= " http://www.petitiononline.com/forkids/petition.html " >

http://www.petitiononline.com/forkids/petition.html</A>

 

 

2) Click here to vote NO! re: mental health parity. This is an extremely

critical issue.  If the proposed Mental Health Parity Bill

passes, the psychiatric community has a blank check to drug and abuse even

more people.

<A HREF= " http://www.vote.com/vote/44855875/index.phtml " >

http://www.vote.com/vote/44855875/index.phtml</A>

 

Pass this along to other on your email lists.

 

Thanks!

Donna M. REILLY

[Guest guest]

Glad you feel better and I think you have a right to take anything you want.

But the drugs CAUSE violence and suicide, it was the getting treatment

that is ALWAYS connected with this kind of violence. I'm not paying for or

promoting that.

Canceling your mental health insurance is the only way many people can free

their loved ones from a psychiatric hospital. Do you really want unlimited

mental health

insurance in a field that is so full of fraud and corruption that insurance

companies

don't want to even sell the insurance and they sell insurance for a living,

that's why the psych/drug

industry is pushing for tax payers to pick up the tab. If people got better

and improved on any

statistical level at all do you think the insurance companies would charge

so much for it

or not offer it at all?

How about going to a psychiatrist who is considered a medical doctor and not

getting check for one of the hundred's if not thousands of real reasons you

might be

feeling down or stressed, infections, heavy metals, allergies all ignored

and you

get a label for life that says you are genetically defective (that's the

'think' on it)

and you must take toxic substances to align your chemicals (which again they

have

no proof of) and coming off the drugs can make you psychotic so unless they

tell

you about that little fact, which they repeatedly do not do, you are

trapped and actually

believe that your defective and must have their poisons to survive.

Then when you are decimated by the drug juggling act most psychiatrists

perform

on most poor souls, you can get told the " only thing left to do " is to shock

your head with

enough voltage that if ran it through your chest you would die.

Not me, until they have safe treatments or at least FULL INFORMED CONSENT

about the frailties of the diagnosis, all the side effect, the potnetial

inability to ever stop the drugs

and a complete list of non-toxic alternatives then they don't get any money

from me

because most people given time and good food and rest get up and walk back

into life

and going the drug/shock path eventually kills most people. Their lives are

short and

repeatedly the drugs side effects are hated and complained about the whole

time.

It's a lie, people can get better with healthy food and a real doctor and

real physical

and you can suppress the symptoms with psychiatric drugs but it's not a

cure.

These drugs have made people commit suicide within days of starting them and

they were

prescribed for chest pain or headaches! These drugs are playing russian

roulette

with a 100 round revolver and 2-6 bullets in the gun.

The person who posted this lost her son to these drugs. The PDR list mode of

action

as UNKNOWN but lists suicide only after 15 years of suicide and a hell of a

lot

of public outcry. The drugs should have been banned, 2004 suicide warning

for chiildren,

late 2006 suicide warnings up to 24 year olds, by the time a suicide wanring

comes from

the FDA the drugs will be out of patent and the drug companies will not care

anyways.

Lying murdering FDA dn drug companies and psychiatrists and all for money.

No offense taken but you should do your homework and we will help with any

questions.

Jim

I don't mean to be insulting here but isn't this stance inconsistent

with all of the rants and posted articles about the violence on

these meds? You don't think mental health is equal to physical

health? Wow, lets discuss Virginia Tech and all of the other violent

acts, how important was their mental health???

I take them and I get therapy and see a psychiatrist regularly for

the meds. I was messed up for a short while on Wellbutrin and Ambien

but I'm good...

I'm amazed here...

>

>

>

> This will take 10 seconds...

>

> Please vote NO to mental health parity.

>

> Should insurers offer comparable benefits for treating mental

disorders and

> physical illnesses?

> http://www.usatoday.com/news/snapshots/25anniversary/NARSAD.htm

>

>

>

>

>

>

> (3)

>

[Guest guest]

Jim, another post of mine never got posted on here and there was much

more information about my rationale on the subject. So, I'll have to

re-type it.

I can agree that these meds are being handed out like candy. Most

times, there is no diagnosis and a few minutes of saying " I'm stressed

out lately " ...someone can get anti-depressants. Because there are not

strict regulations about this, people who don't need them get them and

then yes suicide is a risk, violence etc.

Here is what needs to happen:

1) Anytime someone sees a doctor for depression, stress, mania etc. A

diagnostic test needs to be performed by a qualified doctor. Because

patients can " lie " on these tests, once the results are compiled, more

probing needs to take place with the patient to determine the issue.

The condition, if any exists, needs to be matched with potential

drugs. This is what heart doctors do, cancer doctors etc. Mental

Health doctors need to be required to do the same thing. Because of

the drugs potential for self and harm to others, this needs to be

mandatory.

2) A trial period of meds should be the start but unfortunately, they

are handed out by Primary Care doctors and multiple refills are given.

This is wrong. The lowest dose and only a 2 week supply should be

given. The patient needs to be required to come back for regular

checkups.

3) Therapy must be a requirement if antidepressants, ADD drugs,

Bipolar drugs etc. are prescribed. This is an absolute must or the

patient can no longer get them. Period.

Now the problem with the two topics above is, insurance companies and

those who can't afford insurance or lose their job. Employers and

insurance companies completely mishandle the mental health aspect of

care. It is not seen as equal to cancer or heart conditions. And I

guess some of you seem to agree with that stance. But maybe that is

because it has not been regulated to what I am suggesting.

I handled my treatment correctly. First, I was diagnosed by a clinical

psychologist, (major depression, ADD and some OCD) second, we

discussed the results at length and third, he put me on a low dose of

Prozac and I was evaluated weekly by him. For my ADD, Adderall was

later added to the mix and again, the lowest dose.

Honestly, since this has been handled in this manner, I feel good, am

good and my life has totally turned around. No longer do I have the

suicidal feelings and hopelessness. My disturbing past and my patterns

of behavior have been identified and I'm working through them. I'm

also the kind of patient that does everything at 100% and to

perfection. (can you sense some OCD here...giggle?)

I started seeing a psychiatrist to manage the med portion because my

psychologist could only recommend meds and my primary had to be the

one to fill it. This was annoying and quite frankly, my primary didn't

know his *** from a hole in the ground. I wanted a trained professional.

Once I started seeing the Psychiatrist and my therapist, my insurance

started harrassing my therapist. I now have to cut down my sessions

and I only get 15 minutes with my Psychiatrist monthly and now

recently it is every two months. It is just a med check. Again, this

is insurance doing this.

Insurance companies should not be allowed to restrict care in mental

health. A patient can die or kill someone, we've seen this. Many of my

friends who take these drugs were never evaluated and therapy is not

required.

Insurance also impacts the care I need for my vascular issue but that

is another topic. the bottom line is some idiot at Aetna is making all

of our decisions based on a financial formula. Without the Mental

Health Parity Act, guess what? None of what I wrote above will ever

happen. That means more suicides, more murders more people undiagnosed.

Apparently, this student was on the wrong meds for his condition. It

certainly can aggravate a situation. But I don't totally blame the

meds. This was a disturbed person. The pattern appeared before meds

were ever given to him.

I have done my research Jim and have tons of links I could post here

about all of this. But google works just the same.

My Uncle just died yesterday of three different cancers. Because of a

septic infection he couldn't get chemo he was too weak. The insurance

recommended the surgery before the chemo and now he's gone. Never to

return. We are all devastated.

I'm not saying that are not valid concerns about these meds but again

we need to focus on what the process needs to be to identify the

illness if there is one and then start discussing meds.

This is not happening and we all know plenty of people getting the

wrong meds that make them angry, suicidal, depressed, and out of

control. My first question to these doctors is what is the diagnosis?

> >

> >

> >

> > This will take 10 seconds...

> >

> > Please vote NO to mental health parity.

> >

> > Should insurers offer comparable benefits for treating mental

> disorders and

> > physical illnesses?

> > http://www.usatoday.com/news/snapshots/25anniversary/NARSAD.htm

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > (3)

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jim, another post of mine never got posted on here and there was much

more information about my rationale on the subject. So, I'll have to

re-type it.

I can agree that these meds are being handed out like candy. Most

times, there is no diagnosis and a few minutes of saying " I'm stressed

out lately " ...someone can get anti-depressants. Because there are not

strict regulations about this, people who don't need them get them and

then yes suicide is a risk, violence etc.

Here is what needs to happen:

1) Anytime someone sees a doctor for depression, stress, mania etc. A

diagnostic test needs to be performed by a qualified doctor. Because

patients can " lie " on these tests, once the results are compiled, more

probing needs to take place with the patient to determine the issue.

The condition, if any exists, needs to be matched with potential

drugs. This is what heart doctors do, cancer doctors etc. Mental

Health doctors need to be required to do the same thing. Because of

the drugs potential for self and harm to others, this needs to be

mandatory.

2) A trial period of meds should be the start but unfortunately, they

are handed out by Primary Care doctors and multiple refills are given.

This is wrong. The lowest dose and only a 2 week supply should be

given. The patient needs to be required to come back for regular

checkups.

3) Therapy must be a requirement if antidepressants, ADD drugs,

Bipolar drugs etc. are prescribed. This is an absolute must or the

patient can no longer get them. Period.

Now the problem with the two topics above is, insurance companies and

those who can't afford insurance or lose their job. Employers and

insurance companies completely mishandle the mental health aspect of

care. It is not seen as equal to cancer or heart conditions. And I

guess some of you seem to agree with that stance. But maybe that is

because it has not been regulated to what I am suggesting.

I handled my treatment correctly. First, I was diagnosed by a clinical

psychologist, (major depression, ADD and some OCD) second, we

discussed the results at length and third, he put me on a low dose of

Prozac and I was evaluated weekly by him. For my ADD, Adderall was

later added to the mix and again, the lowest dose.

Honestly, since this has been handled in this manner, I feel good, am

good and my life has totally turned around. No longer do I have the

suicidal feelings and hopelessness. My disturbing past and my patterns

of behavior have been identified and I'm working through them. I'm

also the kind of patient that does everything at 100% and to

perfection. (can you sense some OCD here...giggle?)

I started seeing a psychiatrist to manage the med portion because my

psychologist could only recommend meds and my primary had to be the

one to fill it. This was annoying and quite frankly, my primary didn't

know his *** from a hole in the ground. I wanted a trained professional.

Once I started seeing the Psychiatrist and my therapist, my insurance

started harrassing my therapist. I now have to cut down my sessions

and I only get 15 minutes with my Psychiatrist monthly and now

recently it is every two months. It is just a med check. Again, this

is insurance doing this.

Insurance companies should not be allowed to restrict care in mental

health. A patient can die or kill someone, we've seen this. Many of my

friends who take these drugs were never evaluated and therapy is not

required.

Insurance also impacts the care I need for my vascular issue but that

is another topic. the bottom line is some idiot at Aetna is making all

of our decisions based on a financial formula. Without the Mental

Health Parity Act, guess what? None of what I wrote above will ever

happen. That means more suicides, more murders more people undiagnosed.

Apparently, this student was on the wrong meds for his condition. It

certainly can aggravate a situation. But I don't totally blame the

meds. This was a disturbed person. The pattern appeared before meds

were ever given to him.

I have done my research Jim and have tons of links I could post here

about all of this. But google works just the same.

My Uncle just died yesterday of three different cancers. Because of a

septic infection he couldn't get chemo he was too weak. The insurance

recommended the surgery before the chemo and now he's gone. Never to

return. We are all devastated.

I'm not saying that are not valid concerns about these meds but again

we need to focus on what the process needs to be to identify the

illness if there is one and then start discussing meds.

This is not happening and we all know plenty of people getting the

wrong meds that make them angry, suicidal, depressed, and out of

control. My first question to these doctors is what is the diagnosis?

> >

> >

> >

> > This will take 10 seconds...

> >

> > Please vote NO to mental health parity.

> >

> > Should insurers offer comparable benefits for treating mental

> disorders and

> > physical illnesses?

> > http://www.usatoday.com/news/snapshots/25anniversary/NARSAD.htm

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > (3)

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jim, another post of mine never got posted on here and there was much

more information about my rationale on the subject. So, I'll have to

re-type it.

I can agree that these meds are being handed out like candy. Most

times, there is no diagnosis and a few minutes of saying " I'm stressed

out lately " ...someone can get anti-depressants. Because there are not

strict regulations about this, people who don't need them get them and

then yes suicide is a risk, violence etc.

Here is what needs to happen:

1) Anytime someone sees a doctor for depression, stress, mania etc. A

diagnostic test needs to be performed by a qualified doctor. Because

patients can " lie " on these tests, once the results are compiled, more

probing needs to take place with the patient to determine the issue.

The condition, if any exists, needs to be matched with potential

drugs. This is what heart doctors do, cancer doctors etc. Mental

Health doctors need to be required to do the same thing. Because of

the drugs potential for self and harm to others, this needs to be

mandatory.

2) A trial period of meds should be the start but unfortunately, they

are handed out by Primary Care doctors and multiple refills are given.

This is wrong. The lowest dose and only a 2 week supply should be

given. The patient needs to be required to come back for regular

checkups.

3) Therapy must be a requirement if antidepressants, ADD drugs,

Bipolar drugs etc. are prescribed. This is an absolute must or the

patient can no longer get them. Period.

Now the problem with the two topics above is, insurance companies and

those who can't afford insurance or lose their job. Employers and

insurance companies completely mishandle the mental health aspect of

care. It is not seen as equal to cancer or heart conditions. And I

guess some of you seem to agree with that stance. But maybe that is

because it has not been regulated to what I am suggesting.

I handled my treatment correctly. First, I was diagnosed by a clinical

psychologist, (major depression, ADD and some OCD) second, we

discussed the results at length and third, he put me on a low dose of

Prozac and I was evaluated weekly by him. For my ADD, Adderall was

later added to the mix and again, the lowest dose.

Honestly, since this has been handled in this manner, I feel good, am

good and my life has totally turned around. No longer do I have the

suicidal feelings and hopelessness. My disturbing past and my patterns

of behavior have been identified and I'm working through them. I'm

also the kind of patient that does everything at 100% and to

perfection. (can you sense some OCD here...giggle?)

I started seeing a psychiatrist to manage the med portion because my

psychologist could only recommend meds and my primary had to be the

one to fill it. This was annoying and quite frankly, my primary didn't

know his *** from a hole in the ground. I wanted a trained professional.

Once I started seeing the Psychiatrist and my therapist, my insurance

started harrassing my therapist. I now have to cut down my sessions

and I only get 15 minutes with my Psychiatrist monthly and now

recently it is every two months. It is just a med check. Again, this

is insurance doing this.

Insurance companies should not be allowed to restrict care in mental

health. A patient can die or kill someone, we've seen this. Many of my

friends who take these drugs were never evaluated and therapy is not

required.

Insurance also impacts the care I need for my vascular issue but that

is another topic. the bottom line is some idiot at Aetna is making all

of our decisions based on a financial formula. Without the Mental

Health Parity Act, guess what? None of what I wrote above will ever

happen. That means more suicides, more murders more people undiagnosed.

Apparently, this student was on the wrong meds for his condition. It

certainly can aggravate a situation. But I don't totally blame the

meds. This was a disturbed person. The pattern appeared before meds

were ever given to him.

I have done my research Jim and have tons of links I could post here

about all of this. But google works just the same.

My Uncle just died yesterday of three different cancers. Because of a

septic infection he couldn't get chemo he was too weak. The insurance

recommended the surgery before the chemo and now he's gone. Never to

return. We are all devastated.

I'm not saying that are not valid concerns about these meds but again

we need to focus on what the process needs to be to identify the

illness if there is one and then start discussing meds.

This is not happening and we all know plenty of people getting the

wrong meds that make them angry, suicidal, depressed, and out of

control. My first question to these doctors is what is the diagnosis?

> >

> >

> >

> > This will take 10 seconds...

> >

> > Please vote NO to mental health parity.

> >

> > Should insurers offer comparable benefits for treating mental

> disorders and

> > physical illnesses?

> > http://www.usatoday.com/news/snapshots/25anniversary/NARSAD.htm

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > (3)

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jim, another post of mine never got posted on here and there was much

more information about my rationale on the subject. So, I'll have to

re-type it.

I can agree that these meds are being handed out like candy. Most

times, there is no diagnosis and a few minutes of saying " I'm stressed

out lately " ...someone can get anti-depressants. Because there are not

strict regulations about this, people who don't need them get them and

then yes suicide is a risk, violence etc.

Here is what needs to happen:

1) Anytime someone sees a doctor for depression, stress, mania etc. A

diagnostic test needs to be performed by a qualified doctor. Because

patients can " lie " on these tests, once the results are compiled, more

probing needs to take place with the patient to determine the issue.

The condition, if any exists, needs to be matched with potential

drugs. This is what heart doctors do, cancer doctors etc. Mental

Health doctors need to be required to do the same thing. Because of

the drugs potential for self and harm to others, this needs to be

mandatory.

2) A trial period of meds should be the start but unfortunately, they

are handed out by Primary Care doctors and multiple refills are given.

This is wrong. The lowest dose and only a 2 week supply should be

given. The patient needs to be required to come back for regular

checkups.

3) Therapy must be a requirement if antidepressants, ADD drugs,

Bipolar drugs etc. are prescribed. This is an absolute must or the

patient can no longer get them. Period.

Now the problem with the two topics above is, insurance companies and

those who can't afford insurance or lose their job. Employers and

insurance companies completely mishandle the mental health aspect of

care. It is not seen as equal to cancer or heart conditions. And I

guess some of you seem to agree with that stance. But maybe that is

because it has not been regulated to what I am suggesting.

I handled my treatment correctly. First, I was diagnosed by a clinical

psychologist, (major depression, ADD and some OCD) second, we

discussed the results at length and third, he put me on a low dose of

Prozac and I was evaluated weekly by him. For my ADD, Adderall was

later added to the mix and again, the lowest dose.

Honestly, since this has been handled in this manner, I feel good, am

good and my life has totally turned around. No longer do I have the

suicidal feelings and hopelessness. My disturbing past and my patterns

of behavior have been identified and I'm working through them. I'm

also the kind of patient that does everything at 100% and to

perfection. (can you sense some OCD here...giggle?)

I started seeing a psychiatrist to manage the med portion because my

psychologist could only recommend meds and my primary had to be the

one to fill it. This was annoying and quite frankly, my primary didn't

know his *** from a hole in the ground. I wanted a trained professional.

Once I started seeing the Psychiatrist and my therapist, my insurance

started harrassing my therapist. I now have to cut down my sessions

and I only get 15 minutes with my Psychiatrist monthly and now

recently it is every two months. It is just a med check. Again, this

is insurance doing this.

Insurance companies should not be allowed to restrict care in mental

health. A patient can die or kill someone, we've seen this. Many of my

friends who take these drugs were never evaluated and therapy is not

required.

Insurance also impacts the care I need for my vascular issue but that

is another topic. the bottom line is some idiot at Aetna is making all

of our decisions based on a financial formula. Without the Mental

Health Parity Act, guess what? None of what I wrote above will ever

happen. That means more suicides, more murders more people undiagnosed.

Apparently, this student was on the wrong meds for his condition. It

certainly can aggravate a situation. But I don't totally blame the

meds. This was a disturbed person. The pattern appeared before meds

were ever given to him.

I have done my research Jim and have tons of links I could post here

about all of this. But google works just the same.

My Uncle just died yesterday of three different cancers. Because of a

septic infection he couldn't get chemo he was too weak. The insurance

recommended the surgery before the chemo and now he's gone. Never to

return. We are all devastated.

I'm not saying that are not valid concerns about these meds but again

we need to focus on what the process needs to be to identify the

illness if there is one and then start discussing meds.

This is not happening and we all know plenty of people getting the

wrong meds that make them angry, suicidal, depressed, and out of

control. My first question to these doctors is what is the diagnosis?

> >

> >

> >

> > This will take 10 seconds...

> >

> > Please vote NO to mental health parity.

> >

> > Should insurers offer comparable benefits for treating mental

> disorders and

> > physical illnesses?

> > http://www.usatoday.com/news/snapshots/25anniversary/NARSAD.htm

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > (3)

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> 1) Anytime someone sees a doctor for depression, stress, mania etc. A

> diagnostic test needs to be performed by a qualified doctor.>

we need to focus on what the process needs to be to identify the

> illness if there is one and then start discussing meds.

My first question to these doctors is what is the diagnosis?

You will find a lot of disagreement here over these statements.

Absolutely, a diagnostic test should be done. I was expecting you to go

on to say that there should be a medical check-up, tests for

nutritional deficiencies, heavy metal toxicity, etc. What you went on

to say was that the diagnostic test should essentially be for which

drug to use to treat the problem.

The problem I see is that fradulent labels are attached to " mental

illnesses. " What a patient is presenting is symptoms -- symptoms of

OCD, ADHD, depression, bipolar, etc. The mistake the doctors make is to

label those symptoms as an actual illness or disease. They then proceed

to attempt to use drugs to mask them, with varying degrees of initial

success or failure (I would argue that all of these drugs fail in the

end, if not immediately then over a period of time). They are doing the

patient a gross disservice by not looking more deeply into what is

causing the symptoms. While they are being masked by a drug, the

underlying problems are only likely to worsen, and will end up causing

still more problems. I've seen so many people with depression become

disempowered by meds that made them feel better for a while. The

underlying cause doesn't get addressed, but it's still there, waiting

to erupt -- and in the end it will. I would urge you to consider this

in your own case, because the drugs never actually cure any of these

conditions, though the cures are available if you look in the right

directions.

From what I have gathered, most people here are saying " vote no to

mental health parity " because mental illness is made-up, it isn't real.

It's a physical fact that a person has type I diabetes. It is not a

physical fact that a person has bipolar and needs meds for it. Bipolar

is a made-up label for a set of symptoms that can have many different

causes. At the moment if someone is given parity in their insurance for

mental health, it means they are more likely to have access to a doctor

who will tell them they have a disease and drug them. Until the day

comes when that doctor instead does the real holistic health diagnostic

test, and knows how to treat these symptoms properly without drugs,

then what this bill will do is make people sicker and fill the pockets

of big pharma.

.

[Guest guest]

It's a physical fact that a person has type I diabetes. It is not a

> physical fact that a person has bipolar and needs meds for it. Bipolar

> is a made-up label for a set of symptoms that can have many different

> causes.

I mean this in the nicest of ways! You sound like many in my family

who also have what I have. It's obvious to me but according to them

they suffer only from too much day dreaming and sad moods. Okay...many

in my family have died early because they dont' believe in doctors so

did none of the screening tests for the cancers that run through the

family. That is sad for their children. They also felt this way about

all sorts of medicines. It's all poison...they are a mess trust me. I

am the only one in my family taking control of my mental health.

I am also the only college graduate and quite successful too. What

separates me from them? My mental health diagnoses and treatments

which include the very medicines you claim are given for false

conditions. Of course a battery of blood work for many other health

conditions has been done on me many times over. I have nothing but

Major Depression, ADD and some OCD tendencies such as me ripping my

fingers to shreds since I was 7 years old. Now? Beautiful nice

manicured fingers. Why? The same meds I am on now and a little help

from solar nails too. The anxiety however is under control in a way I

never thought it could be.

I am 37 and had depression, OCD and ADD symptoms very evident from an

early age. I tried suicide at 16 and I wasn't on any meds at the time.

I didn't start depression meds until my mid 20's and Adderall only a

year ago. I struggled all through school because of the depression,

bullying and problems at home. Studying and reading books? No way. I'd

fall asleep after 15 minutes. Listen to a lecture for hours on end. No

way again. My mind would wander everywhere but at that teacher. I

would even drive on the road, get somewhere and not remember much of

the drive. Now? My husband laughed at me recently. We went to our

local mall and I said oh look at all the new stores. He laughed and

said no sweety, they've been here all along you just never 'saw' them.

That is the Adderall helping.

I finally found a program for a college degree that works for ADD type

people. Mainly because it is hands on, visual, verbal, extensive

research, presentations, an extensive paper on implementing and

analyzing an idea that we created. This very " C " student graduated

Magna Cum Laude from that program from Cabrini College in Pa. It was

an expensive program to. 20K dollars later, it was just paid off last

month. But so worth it.

The public schools and colleges that focus more on the same old

traditional study methods today still do not acknowledge that those

with ADD do not learn in the same traditional manner that other kids

do. Once I got in the right environment, I could do it. The core

classes though? Same thing, couldn't read and retain information. But

I can generate ideas, develop programs, implement them and analyze the

results in no time at all.

Now on the Adderall, I can study and have recently passed my

professional certification credential. The only reason I finally

sought to be tested for ADD is because again, to get the CPA or CIA

certification it's all books, memorization, reading etc. I passed all

four parts on the first try for the CIA. This is progress at it's

highest limit.

So you see, mental illness is not false or fraudulent. I probably

sound quite arrogant by typing all of that but I really take issue

with your false labels claim. I really do. How can you possibly over

generalize like that?

>

> > 1) Anytime someone sees a doctor for depression, stress, mania etc. A

> > diagnostic test needs to be performed by a qualified doctor.>

>

> we need to focus on what the process needs to be to identify the

> > illness if there is one and then start discussing meds.

>

> My first question to these doctors is what is the diagnosis?

>

>

>

> You will find a lot of disagreement here over these statements.

>

> Absolutely, a diagnostic test should be done. I was expecting you to go

> on to say that there should be a medical check-up, tests for

> nutritional deficiencies, heavy metal toxicity, etc. What you went on

> to say was that the diagnostic test should essentially be for which

> drug to use to treat the problem.

>

> The problem I see is that fradulent labels are attached to " mental

> illnesses. " What a patient is presenting is symptoms -- symptoms of

> OCD, ADHD, depression, bipolar, etc. The mistake the doctors make is to

> label those symptoms as an actual illness or disease. They then proceed

> to attempt to use drugs to mask them, with varying degrees of initial

> success or failure (I would argue that all of these drugs fail in the

> end, if not immediately then over a period of time). They are doing the

> patient a gross disservice by not looking more deeply into what is

> causing the symptoms. While they are being masked by a drug, the

> underlying problems are only likely to worsen, and will end up causing

> still more problems. I've seen so many people with depression become

> disempowered by meds that made them feel better for a while. The

> underlying cause doesn't get addressed, but it's still there, waiting

> to erupt -- and in the end it will. I would urge you to consider this

> in your own case, because the drugs never actually cure any of these

> conditions, though the cures are available if you look in the right

> directions.

>

> From what I have gathered, most people here are saying " vote no to

> mental health parity " because mental illness is made-up, it isn't real.

> It's a physical fact that a person has type I diabetes. It is not a

> physical fact that a person has bipolar and needs meds for it. Bipolar

> is a made-up label for a set of symptoms that can have many different

> causes. At the moment if someone is given parity in their insurance for

> mental health, it means they are more likely to have access to a doctor

> who will tell them they have a disease and drug them. Until the day

> comes when that doctor instead does the real holistic health diagnostic

> test, and knows how to treat these symptoms properly without drugs,

> then what this bill will do is make people sicker and fill the pockets

> of big pharma.

>

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Is it the drug that is helping or are you no longer being bullied and have the

problems you had at your former home been resolved?

I think your former living situation needed a lot of improvement .

Melinda and Jayme her Silver Winged Companion

Re: Vote NO to Mental Health Parity

It's a physical fact that a person has type I diabetes. It is not a

> physical fact that a person has bipolar and needs meds for it. Bipolar

> is a made-up label for a set of symptoms that can have many different

> causes.

I mean this in the nicest of ways! You sound like many in my family

who also have what I have. It's obvious to me but according to them

they suffer only from too much day dreaming and sad moods. Okay...many

in my family have died early because they dont' believe in doctors so

did none of the screening tests for the cancers that run through the

family. That is sad for their children. They also felt this way about

all sorts of medicines. It's all poison...they are a mess trust me. I

am the only one in my family taking control of my mental health.

I am also the only college graduate and quite successful too. What

separates me from them? My mental health diagnoses and treatments

which include the very medicines you claim are given for false

conditions. Of course a battery of blood work for many other health

conditions has been done on me many times over. I have nothing but

Major Depression, ADD and some OCD tendencies such as me ripping my

fingers to shreds since I was 7 years old. Now? Beautiful nice

manicured fingers. Why? The same meds I am on now and a little help

from solar nails too. The anxiety however is under control in a way I

never thought it could be.

I am 37 and had depression, OCD and ADD symptoms very evident from an

early age. I tried suicide at 16 and I wasn't on any meds at the time.

I didn't start depression meds until my mid 20's and Adderall only a

year ago. I struggled all through school because of the depression,

bullying and problems at home. Studying and reading books? No way. I'd

fall asleep after 15 minutes. Listen to a lecture for hours on end. No

way again. My mind would wander everywhere but at that teacher. I

would even drive on the road, get somewhere and not remember much of

the drive. Now? My husband laughed at me recently. We went to our

local mall and I said oh look at all the new stores. He laughed and

said no sweety, they've been here all along you just never 'saw' them.

That is the Adderall helping.

I finally found a program for a college degree that works for ADD type

people. Mainly because it is hands on, visual, verbal, extensive

research, presentations, an extensive paper on implementing and

analyzing an idea that we created. This very " C " student graduated

Magna Cum Laude from that program from Cabrini College in Pa. It was

an expensive program to. 20K dollars later, it was just paid off last

month. But so worth it.

The public schools and colleges that focus more on the same old

traditional study methods today still do not acknowledge that those

with ADD do not learn in the same traditional manner that other kids

do. Once I got in the right environment, I could do it. The core

classes though? Same thing, couldn't read and retain information. But

I can generate ideas, develop programs, implement them and analyze the

results in no time at all.

Now on the Adderall, I can study and have recently passed my

professional certification credential. The only reason I finally

sought to be tested for ADD is because again, to get the CPA or CIA

certification it's all books, memorization, reading etc. I passed all

four parts on the first try for the CIA. This is progress at it's

highest limit.

So you see, mental illness is not false or fraudulent. I probably

sound quite arrogant by typing all of that but I really take issue

with your false labels claim. I really do. How can you possibly over

generalize like that?

>

> > 1) Anytime someone sees a doctor for depression, stress, mania etc. A

> > diagnostic test needs to be performed by a qualified doctor.>

>

> we need to focus on what the process needs to be to identify the

> > illness if there is one and then start discussing meds.

>

> My first question to these doctors is what is the diagnosis?

>

>

>

> You will find a lot of disagreement here over these statements.

>

> Absolutely, a diagnostic test should be done. I was expecting you to go

> on to say that there should be a medical check-up, tests for

> nutritional deficiencies, heavy metal toxicity, etc. What you went on

> to say was that the diagnostic test should essentially be for which

> drug to use to treat the problem.

>

> The problem I see is that fradulent labels are attached to " mental

> illnesses. " What a patient is presenting is symptoms -- symptoms of

> OCD, ADHD, depression, bipolar, etc. The mistake the doctors make is to

> label those symptoms as an actual illness or disease. They then proceed

> to attempt to use drugs to mask them, with varying degrees of initial

> success or failure (I would argue that all of these drugs fail in the

> end, if not immediately then over a period of time). They are doing the

> patient a gross disservice by not looking more deeply into what is

> causing the symptoms. While they are being masked by a drug, the

> underlying problems are only likely to worsen, and will end up causing

> still more problems. I've seen so many people with depression become

> disempowered by meds that made them feel better for a while. The

> underlying cause doesn't get addressed, but it's still there, waiting

> to erupt -- and in the end it will. I would urge you to consider this

> in your own case, because the drugs never actually cure any of these

> conditions, though the cures are available if you look in the right

> directions.

>

> From what I have gathered, most people here are saying " vote no to

> mental health parity " because mental illness is made-up, it isn't real.

> It's a physical fact that a person has type I diabetes. It is not a

> physical fact that a person has bipolar and needs meds for it. Bipolar

> is a made-up label for a set of symptoms that can have many different

> causes. At the moment if someone is given parity in their insurance for

> mental health, it means they are more likely to have access to a doctor

> who will tell them they have a disease and drug them. Until the day

> comes when that doctor instead does the real holistic health diagnostic

> test, and knows how to treat these symptoms properly without drugs,

> then what this bill will do is make people sicker and fill the pockets

> of big pharma.

>

> .

>

[Guest guest]

> I mean this in the nicest of ways! You sound like many in my family

> who also have what I have. It's obvious to me but according to them

> they suffer only from too much day dreaming and sad moods.

I really take issue

> with your false labels claim. I really do. How can you possibly over

> generalize like that?

Maybe I need to re-phrase what I said. When I try to explain these

things to people they sometimes say similar things. They hear me

saying negative things about the drugs. They don't seem to hear the

other things I'm saying about mental illness. They they say something

like, " How can you not treat mental illness? Of course it is real. If

you leave it untreated (i.e. no drugs) then those people will be

suffering needlessly. "

I am not saying that symptoms of mental illness should go untreated,

nor am I claiming that they are made up, all in a person's head, just

a case of the blues, etc. What I am saying is that these are

symptoms. So is cancer. These things are symptoms of underlying

problems. I don't doubt anything that you told me, I don't doubt that

you suffered needlessly yourself all those years. However, the gross

disservice that I mentioned in my other post is that no doctor ever

picked up on what was happening to you. Most of them still don't.

ADHD, OCD, and many other conditions have been treated successfully

with nutritional therapy. Some children labeled ADHD have improved

from simple, small treatments such as taking fish oil, or taking

processed chemical-laced foods and sugar out of their diets. What is

better for them, what is better for anyone -- improving their

nutrition, or taking a drug?

I think it's fantastic that you decided to take charge of your own

health, and that you've had some success with treating your symptoms.

I guess what I would suggest you do for the sake of your continued

health, is to look into possible root causes of your own conditions.

It may take a decade or longer, but prolonged use of psychotropic

drugs ends up damaging a person's body; and as I said, the drugs mask

the symptoms without addressing the reasons why the symptoms

presented in the first place. You could use the help you feel you've

had from the drugs to search for answers so that you can eventually

stop taking them, and eliminate the underlying problems.

It's also been suggested here that it can also be helpful to look at

living conditions, or general life conditions. Depression can often

be a consequence of something in life that needs changing. And again,

nutritional deficiencies can lie at the heart of it.

They lie at the heart of cancer too. Cancer is a symptom of a

weakened immune system. Doctors have had success in treating cancer

by boosting the immune system with nutrients such as vitamin C. Most

of them concentrate instead on treating a tumor, and procedures such

as chemotherapy weaken the immune system further, setting the patient

up for more problems in the future.

I never knew any of these things myself until about a year ago. It

really is shocking how much info the general public, and even

doctors, are ignorant of. Yet it's out there if you know how to look.

.

[Guest guest]

> I mean this in the nicest of ways! You sound like many in my family

> who also have what I have. It's obvious to me but according to them

> they suffer only from too much day dreaming and sad moods.

I really take issue

> with your false labels claim. I really do. How can you possibly over

> generalize like that?

Maybe I need to re-phrase what I said. When I try to explain these

things to people they sometimes say similar things. They hear me

saying negative things about the drugs. They don't seem to hear the

other things I'm saying about mental illness. They they say something

like, " How can you not treat mental illness? Of course it is real. If

you leave it untreated (i.e. no drugs) then those people will be

suffering needlessly. "

I am not saying that symptoms of mental illness should go untreated,

nor am I claiming that they are made up, all in a person's head, just

a case of the blues, etc. What I am saying is that these are

symptoms. So is cancer. These things are symptoms of underlying

problems. I don't doubt anything that you told me, I don't doubt that

you suffered needlessly yourself all those years. However, the gross

disservice that I mentioned in my other post is that no doctor ever

picked up on what was happening to you. Most of them still don't.

ADHD, OCD, and many other conditions have been treated successfully

with nutritional therapy. Some children labeled ADHD have improved

from simple, small treatments such as taking fish oil, or taking

processed chemical-laced foods and sugar out of their diets. What is

better for them, what is better for anyone -- improving their

nutrition, or taking a drug?

I think it's fantastic that you decided to take charge of your own

health, and that you've had some success with treating your symptoms.

I guess what I would suggest you do for the sake of your continued

health, is to look into possible root causes of your own conditions.

It may take a decade or longer, but prolonged use of psychotropic

drugs ends up damaging a person's body; and as I said, the drugs mask

the symptoms without addressing the reasons why the symptoms

presented in the first place. You could use the help you feel you've

had from the drugs to search for answers so that you can eventually

stop taking them, and eliminate the underlying problems.

It's also been suggested here that it can also be helpful to look at

living conditions, or general life conditions. Depression can often

be a consequence of something in life that needs changing. And again,

nutritional deficiencies can lie at the heart of it.

They lie at the heart of cancer too. Cancer is a symptom of a

weakened immune system. Doctors have had success in treating cancer

by boosting the immune system with nutrients such as vitamin C. Most

of them concentrate instead on treating a tumor, and procedures such

as chemotherapy weaken the immune system further, setting the patient

up for more problems in the future.

I never knew any of these things myself until about a year ago. It

really is shocking how much info the general public, and even

doctors, are ignorant of. Yet it's out there if you know how to look.

.

[Guest guest]

> I mean this in the nicest of ways! You sound like many in my family

> who also have what I have. It's obvious to me but according to them

> they suffer only from too much day dreaming and sad moods.

I really take issue

> with your false labels claim. I really do. How can you possibly over

> generalize like that?

Maybe I need to re-phrase what I said. When I try to explain these

things to people they sometimes say similar things. They hear me

saying negative things about the drugs. They don't seem to hear the

other things I'm saying about mental illness. They they say something

like, " How can you not treat mental illness? Of course it is real. If

you leave it untreated (i.e. no drugs) then those people will be

suffering needlessly. "

I am not saying that symptoms of mental illness should go untreated,

nor am I claiming that they are made up, all in a person's head, just

a case of the blues, etc. What I am saying is that these are

symptoms. So is cancer. These things are symptoms of underlying

problems. I don't doubt anything that you told me, I don't doubt that

you suffered needlessly yourself all those years. However, the gross

disservice that I mentioned in my other post is that no doctor ever

picked up on what was happening to you. Most of them still don't.

ADHD, OCD, and many other conditions have been treated successfully

with nutritional therapy. Some children labeled ADHD have improved

from simple, small treatments such as taking fish oil, or taking

processed chemical-laced foods and sugar out of their diets. What is

better for them, what is better for anyone -- improving their

nutrition, or taking a drug?

I think it's fantastic that you decided to take charge of your own

health, and that you've had some success with treating your symptoms.

I guess what I would suggest you do for the sake of your continued

health, is to look into possible root causes of your own conditions.

It may take a decade or longer, but prolonged use of psychotropic

drugs ends up damaging a person's body; and as I said, the drugs mask

the symptoms without addressing the reasons why the symptoms

presented in the first place. You could use the help you feel you've

had from the drugs to search for answers so that you can eventually

stop taking them, and eliminate the underlying problems.

It's also been suggested here that it can also be helpful to look at

living conditions, or general life conditions. Depression can often

be a consequence of something in life that needs changing. And again,

nutritional deficiencies can lie at the heart of it.

They lie at the heart of cancer too. Cancer is a symptom of a

weakened immune system. Doctors have had success in treating cancer

by boosting the immune system with nutrients such as vitamin C. Most

of them concentrate instead on treating a tumor, and procedures such

as chemotherapy weaken the immune system further, setting the patient

up for more problems in the future.

I never knew any of these things myself until about a year ago. It

really is shocking how much info the general public, and even

doctors, are ignorant of. Yet it's out there if you know how to look.

.

[Guest guest]

> I mean this in the nicest of ways! You sound like many in my family

> who also have what I have. It's obvious to me but according to them

> they suffer only from too much day dreaming and sad moods.

I really take issue

> with your false labels claim. I really do. How can you possibly over

> generalize like that?

Maybe I need to re-phrase what I said. When I try to explain these

things to people they sometimes say similar things. They hear me

saying negative things about the drugs. They don't seem to hear the

other things I'm saying about mental illness. They they say something

like, " How can you not treat mental illness? Of course it is real. If

you leave it untreated (i.e. no drugs) then those people will be

suffering needlessly. "

I am not saying that symptoms of mental illness should go untreated,

nor am I claiming that they are made up, all in a person's head, just

a case of the blues, etc. What I am saying is that these are

symptoms. So is cancer. These things are symptoms of underlying

problems. I don't doubt anything that you told me, I don't doubt that

you suffered needlessly yourself all those years. However, the gross

disservice that I mentioned in my other post is that no doctor ever

picked up on what was happening to you. Most of them still don't.

ADHD, OCD, and many other conditions have been treated successfully

with nutritional therapy. Some children labeled ADHD have improved

from simple, small treatments such as taking fish oil, or taking

processed chemical-laced foods and sugar out of their diets. What is

better for them, what is better for anyone -- improving their

nutrition, or taking a drug?

I think it's fantastic that you decided to take charge of your own

health, and that you've had some success with treating your symptoms.

I guess what I would suggest you do for the sake of your continued

health, is to look into possible root causes of your own conditions.

It may take a decade or longer, but prolonged use of psychotropic

drugs ends up damaging a person's body; and as I said, the drugs mask

the symptoms without addressing the reasons why the symptoms

presented in the first place. You could use the help you feel you've

had from the drugs to search for answers so that you can eventually

stop taking them, and eliminate the underlying problems.

It's also been suggested here that it can also be helpful to look at

living conditions, or general life conditions. Depression can often

be a consequence of something in life that needs changing. And again,

nutritional deficiencies can lie at the heart of it.

They lie at the heart of cancer too. Cancer is a symptom of a

weakened immune system. Doctors have had success in treating cancer

by boosting the immune system with nutrients such as vitamin C. Most

of them concentrate instead on treating a tumor, and procedures such

as chemotherapy weaken the immune system further, setting the patient

up for more problems in the future.

I never knew any of these things myself until about a year ago. It

really is shocking how much info the general public, and even

doctors, are ignorant of. Yet it's out there if you know how to look.

.

[Guest guest]

This animated cartoon from Mercola.com illustrates the point about

symptoms and cures:

http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/index.htm

[Guest guest]

This animated cartoon from Mercola.com illustrates the point about

symptoms and cures:

http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/index.htm

[Guest guest]

This animated cartoon from Mercola.com illustrates the point about

symptoms and cures:

http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/index.htm

[Guest guest]

This animated cartoon from Mercola.com illustrates the point about

symptoms and cures:

http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/index.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You make some good points and I am thrilled you are doing better.

My problem is that though the drugs may seem to help there is so very

much to do, and should be done, before ever going to dangerous drugs.

Starting the drugs is taking a rather extreme, if fairly low percentage,

chance

that you might experience the more serious side effects of suicide,

aggression,

psychosis etc and then even if none of that happens the withdrawal for many

are so extreme that if they had any idea they would have never taken them in

the first

place.

As far as knowing who should get them, they don't know how they work, so

says

the PDR, and the best they can do is say some folks without a certain enzyme

can have a bad time of it.

but before any of that, therapy should be first and if a doctor was treating

I would expect

that doctor to try nutrients, some which make you sleepy and relaxed, and

then check for

for infections, and other real body function trouble and whatever before

getting into

crystal ball land with the psychiatric labels. Not that the symptoms do not

exist but

that the labels are simply a list of the symptoms and not connected by any

biological

marker in the body or chemical imbalance. No genetic link is found but in

coencidence

of a child's parent having the same thing as the child. Well damn, maybe

they both

live near a toxic dump or drink the same leaded water. People can feel every

way

imaginable and I know some of those feelings are not fun at all and

sometimes

incapacitating but I also know that considering all the trouble and risks

involved with taking

the drugs, and all the unmentioned side effects that some doctor would come

out with a

real healthy way to deal with these things and not play Russian Roullette

with their

lives, livers and brains, not to mention the people around them.

Many people need a good listener who does not evaluate and invalidate them.

Just listening

is a powerful thing and I think that is great.

The only people who really ethically should be sedated, and only with

sleeping meds, are

those that are a danger to themselves of others. Usually a good sleep will

set even those right.

Everything else is literally insanity causing treatments that make people

less healthy and more

prone to relapse, coming off the drugs is like wandering in a maze and easy

to go psychotic

and then get really locked up or drugged. All the psychiatric drugs were

found by accident, the

first antipsychotic was used for something else, the first antidepressant

the same way. The

drugs were SOLD to replace much nastier treatments like shock and lobotomy.

the Quakers

are the one's we should be looking toward for answers. They had the right

idea from the beginning.

Jim

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You make some good points and I am thrilled you are doing better.

My problem is that though the drugs may seem to help there is so very

much to do, and should be done, before ever going to dangerous drugs.

Starting the drugs is taking a rather extreme, if fairly low percentage,

chance

that you might experience the more serious side effects of suicide,

aggression,

psychosis etc and then even if none of that happens the withdrawal for many

are so extreme that if they had any idea they would have never taken them in

the first

place.

As far as knowing who should get them, they don't know how they work, so

says

the PDR, and the best they can do is say some folks without a certain enzyme

can have a bad time of it.

but before any of that, therapy should be first and if a doctor was treating

I would expect

that doctor to try nutrients, some which make you sleepy and relaxed, and

then check for

for infections, and other real body function trouble and whatever before

getting into

crystal ball land with the psychiatric labels. Not that the symptoms do not

exist but

that the labels are simply a list of the symptoms and not connected by any

biological

marker in the body or chemical imbalance. No genetic link is found but in

coencidence

of a child's parent having the same thing as the child. Well damn, maybe

they both

live near a toxic dump or drink the same leaded water. People can feel every

way

imaginable and I know some of those feelings are not fun at all and

sometimes

incapacitating but I also know that considering all the trouble and risks

involved with taking

the drugs, and all the unmentioned side effects that some doctor would come

out with a

real healthy way to deal with these things and not play Russian Roullette

with their

lives, livers and brains, not to mention the people around them.

Many people need a good listener who does not evaluate and invalidate them.

Just listening

is a powerful thing and I think that is great.

The only people who really ethically should be sedated, and only with

sleeping meds, are

those that are a danger to themselves of others. Usually a good sleep will

set even those right.

Everything else is literally insanity causing treatments that make people

less healthy and more

prone to relapse, coming off the drugs is like wandering in a maze and easy

to go psychotic

and then get really locked up or drugged. All the psychiatric drugs were

found by accident, the

first antipsychotic was used for something else, the first antidepressant

the same way. The

drugs were SOLD to replace much nastier treatments like shock and lobotomy.

the Quakers

are the one's we should be looking toward for answers. They had the right

idea from the beginning.

Jim

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You make some good points and I am thrilled you are doing better.

My problem is that though the drugs may seem to help there is so very

much to do, and should be done, before ever going to dangerous drugs.

Starting the drugs is taking a rather extreme, if fairly low percentage,

chance

that you might experience the more serious side effects of suicide,

aggression,

psychosis etc and then even if none of that happens the withdrawal for many

are so extreme that if they had any idea they would have never taken them in

the first

place.

As far as knowing who should get them, they don't know how they work, so

says

the PDR, and the best they can do is say some folks without a certain enzyme

can have a bad time of it.

but before any of that, therapy should be first and if a doctor was treating

I would expect

that doctor to try nutrients, some which make you sleepy and relaxed, and

then check for

for infections, and other real body function trouble and whatever before

getting into

crystal ball land with the psychiatric labels. Not that the symptoms do not

exist but

that the labels are simply a list of the symptoms and not connected by any

biological

marker in the body or chemical imbalance. No genetic link is found but in

coencidence

of a child's parent having the same thing as the child. Well damn, maybe

they both

live near a toxic dump or drink the same leaded water. People can feel every

way

imaginable and I know some of those feelings are not fun at all and

sometimes

incapacitating but I also know that considering all the trouble and risks

involved with taking

the drugs, and all the unmentioned side effects that some doctor would come

out with a

real healthy way to deal with these things and not play Russian Roullette

with their

lives, livers and brains, not to mention the people around them.

Many people need a good listener who does not evaluate and invalidate them.

Just listening

is a powerful thing and I think that is great.

The only people who really ethically should be sedated, and only with

sleeping meds, are

those that are a danger to themselves of others. Usually a good sleep will

set even those right.

Everything else is literally insanity causing treatments that make people

less healthy and more

prone to relapse, coming off the drugs is like wandering in a maze and easy

to go psychotic

and then get really locked up or drugged. All the psychiatric drugs were

found by accident, the

first antipsychotic was used for something else, the first antidepressant

the same way. The

drugs were SOLD to replace much nastier treatments like shock and lobotomy.

the Quakers

are the one's we should be looking toward for answers. They had the right

idea from the beginning.

Jim

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You make some good points and I am thrilled you are doing better.

My problem is that though the drugs may seem to help there is so very

much to do, and should be done, before ever going to dangerous drugs.

Starting the drugs is taking a rather extreme, if fairly low percentage,

chance

that you might experience the more serious side effects of suicide,

aggression,

psychosis etc and then even if none of that happens the withdrawal for many

are so extreme that if they had any idea they would have never taken them in

the first

place.

As far as knowing who should get them, they don't know how they work, so

says

the PDR, and the best they can do is say some folks without a certain enzyme

can have a bad time of it.

but before any of that, therapy should be first and if a doctor was treating

I would expect

that doctor to try nutrients, some which make you sleepy and relaxed, and

then check for

for infections, and other real body function trouble and whatever before

getting into

crystal ball land with the psychiatric labels. Not that the symptoms do not

exist but

that the labels are simply a list of the symptoms and not connected by any

biological

marker in the body or chemical imbalance. No genetic link is found but in

coencidence

of a child's parent having the same thing as the child. Well damn, maybe

they both

live near a toxic dump or drink the same leaded water. People can feel every

way

imaginable and I know some of those feelings are not fun at all and

sometimes

incapacitating but I also know that considering all the trouble and risks

involved with taking

the drugs, and all the unmentioned side effects that some doctor would come

out with a

real healthy way to deal with these things and not play Russian Roullette

with their

lives, livers and brains, not to mention the people around them.

Many people need a good listener who does not evaluate and invalidate them.

Just listening

is a powerful thing and I think that is great.

The only people who really ethically should be sedated, and only with

sleeping meds, are

those that are a danger to themselves of others. Usually a good sleep will

set even those right.

Everything else is literally insanity causing treatments that make people

less healthy and more

prone to relapse, coming off the drugs is like wandering in a maze and easy

to go psychotic

and then get really locked up or drugged. All the psychiatric drugs were

found by accident, the

first antipsychotic was used for something else, the first antidepressant

the same way. The

drugs were SOLD to replace much nastier treatments like shock and lobotomy.

the Quakers

are the one's we should be looking toward for answers. They had the right

idea from the beginning.

Jim

[Guest guest]

Thank you for clarifying for me!! Believe me, I am open to new

ideas about treatments, drugs or no drugs etc.

That is why I joined this group. I had a very very difficult time

getting off Effexor and this is when I started researching...

In light of all of the violence, crimes committed and suicide

associated with taking drugs, this discussion needs to get to the

highest level fast.

How many more deaths are we willing to accept? This is a huge

problem...huge

>

> > I mean this in the nicest of ways! You sound like many in my

family

> > who also have what I have. It's obvious to me but according to

them

> > they suffer only from too much day dreaming and sad moods.

>

> I really take issue

> > with your false labels claim. I really do. How can you possibly

over

> > generalize like that?

>

>

>

> Maybe I need to re-phrase what I said. When I try to explain these

> things to people they sometimes say similar things. They hear me

> saying negative things about the drugs. They don't seem to hear

the

> other things I'm saying about mental illness. They they say

something

> like, " How can you not treat mental illness? Of course it is real.

If

> you leave it untreated (i.e. no drugs) then those people will be

> suffering needlessly. "

>

> I am not saying that symptoms of mental illness should go

untreated,

> nor am I claiming that they are made up, all in a person's head,

just

> a case of the blues, etc. What I am saying is that these are

> symptoms. So is cancer. These things are symptoms of underlying

> problems. I don't doubt anything that you told me, I don't doubt

that

> you suffered needlessly yourself all those years. However, the

gross

> disservice that I mentioned in my other post is that no doctor

ever

> picked up on what was happening to you. Most of them still don't.

> ADHD, OCD, and many other conditions have been treated

successfully

> with nutritional therapy. Some children labeled ADHD have improved

> from simple, small treatments such as taking fish oil, or taking

> processed chemical-laced foods and sugar out of their diets. What

is

> better for them, what is better for anyone -- improving their

> nutrition, or taking a drug?

>

> I think it's fantastic that you decided to take charge of your own

> health, and that you've had some success with treating your

symptoms.

> I guess what I would suggest you do for the sake of your continued

> health, is to look into possible root causes of your own

conditions.

> It may take a decade or longer, but prolonged use of psychotropic

> drugs ends up damaging a person's body; and as I said, the drugs

mask

> the symptoms without addressing the reasons why the symptoms

> presented in the first place. You could use the help you feel

you've

> had from the drugs to search for answers so that you can

eventually

> stop taking them, and eliminate the underlying problems.

>

> It's also been suggested here that it can also be helpful to look

at

> living conditions, or general life conditions. Depression can

often

> be a consequence of something in life that needs changing. And

again,

> nutritional deficiencies can lie at the heart of it.

>

> They lie at the heart of cancer too. Cancer is a symptom of a

> weakened immune system. Doctors have had success in treating

cancer

> by boosting the immune system with nutrients such as vitamin C.

Most

> of them concentrate instead on treating a tumor, and procedures

such

> as chemotherapy weaken the immune system further, setting the

patient

> up for more problems in the future.

>

> I never knew any of these things myself until about a year ago. It

> really is shocking how much info the general public, and even

> doctors, are ignorant of. Yet it's out there if you know how to

look.

>

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm glad you found your way here. Sometimes it's only through being a

member of a group like this that the truth becomes visible. All of us

here hope that will change.

Can I just urge you to be careful if you decide to discontinue the

Effexor. Most people taper off these drugs too fast, or not at all,

and end up with lasting problems. Sometimes they are so bad that

people are unable to work. You CAN come off the drug, but in order to

do it safely you need to go slow, 10% or less at a time. I wasn't

willing to find the patience to do this myself, it's been a year

since I came off my drug, and I am still having problems caused by

that. They are slowly getting better but it's a long process, and

it's still easy to make myself sick if my system gets overstimulated.

You will also want to think about how to address the original problem

that got you on the drugs. Eating a healthy diet can be a start.

If you want further advice about coming off the Effexor, many people

here are knowledgeable and will be glad to help. And we'll be happy

if you spread the word that drugs are not the answer

Best wishes,

.