Sinus Infections

[Guest guest]

My experience is similar to Sherry's--before Enbrel, I had chronic

sinus infections. I believe it was the steroidal nasal spray that I was

prescribed for those sinus infections that set off my PA and a bout of

bronchial infections.

After my PA manifested itself and I began taking Enbrel, and then

switched to a nasal saline rinse, I've been virtually sinus infection-

free for the past 18 months, despite the immuno-suppressing nature of

the biologic TNF-blockers.

" vdevera " <vdevera@...>

[Guest guest]

For what it's worth, my allergist told me some years ago that because the

steroidal nasal sprays are topical, there is virtually no systemic effect.  So,

if that info was correct, there may have been something else that triggered your

PA -  or nothing.  It just happened.  In my case, my physical therapist believes

it was a fall I had just two weeks before my symptoms started and I have read

that trauma can trigger it. 

 Joanna Hoelscher

[Guest guest]

Christy,

Knowing a bacterial sinusitis from something else does not answer to

one, single criteria. Also, the mucosal and immunological response may

vary from individual to individual, so some may have a more marked

response, and others a more discrete response.

Officially, to have sinusitis, you need to have some (like at least 2,

but not all) symptoms among the following : facial pressure/pain, facial

congestion, nasal obstruction/blockage, nasal discharge/purulence,

hyposmia/anosmia, fever.

Then, to be sure that the sinusitis is of bacterial origin, you would

have to make a germ culture. But in practice, if you have a lot of green

mucus, it raises the possibility of a bacterial infection. Now, taking

steroids, even locally, may affect the color of the discharge and make

it harder to discern an infection. Strong allergies can also give rise

to allergic mucus.

Fever is also a tell-tale sign, but it may not appear immediately, and

may vary in intensity from individual to individual. In my case, fever

rarely appears before a week of infection.

Actually, a situation where you could be pretty sure that you had a

bacterial infection would be if you kept going worse prior to taking

antibiotics, and then start going progressively better after beginning

to take them (in the case that the antibiotics in question are

appropriate to fight the given germ, otherwise they would have no

effect).

When you were told after surgery that you were infection-free, that was

done on the basis of an endoscopic evaluation, meaning the ENT had a

look at your mucosa, and determined that it was not bloated and that the

mucus was not thick, sticky, non-translucid.

>

> How do you know when you have a sinus infection and not just Samters

thick mucous? I've had two surgeries and after each, I was told that

there was no infection and no fungus. I'm starting to think I have an

infection. What are you tell-tale symptoms?

>

> Thanks,

> Christy

>

[Guest guest]

It just seems that most of these symptoms are also my regular Samter's symptoms.

I do have numerous, large polyps that cause facial pain, nasal obstruction,

drippy drainage, clumpy-jelly musus, no sense of smell, etc.

I have probably been on antibiotics once in 2 years (besides the meds I took as

a precaution after surgery). My ENT sent mucus to the lab after surgery and

found no infection and no fungus. I just can't believe that I can really be

infection free. I was desensitized to aspirin this summer, but to be totally

honest, I haven't noticed a difference. I just finished my usual short burst of

predinsone, but this time my sense of smell did not return. I also keep

experiencing a strange smell/taste. Muscus is sometimes green, sometimes yellow,

sometimes clear. No fever, but I have probably only had a handful of fevers in

my life. Maybe my body doesn't work hard enough to fight infection!

All I can say is that I feel worse that normal.

What anitbiotics do most of you take?

Thanks for the info. and help. I am just really frustrated, as most of us are. I

had great hopes that desensitization would improve my quality of life. At this

point, I am hoping for an infection. If it can be cleared, maybe I can begin to

see the benefits of desens.

Thanks!

Christy

> >

> > How do you know when you have a sinus infection and not just Samters

> thick mucous? I've had two surgeries and after each, I was told that

> there was no infection and no fungus. I'm starting to think I have an

> infection. What are you tell-tale symptoms?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Christy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, you sure have chronic rhinosinusitis with polyps by any standard.

Now, to progress from this point, you would have to investigate in a few

directions :

1) first, are you sure that you are intolerant to aspirin ? What kind of

reactions to aspirin or NSAIDs have you experienced in the past before

being treated ? Since no member of your family is aspirin-intolerant,

being sure that you really are is important.

2) second, what is your allergy status ? Are members of your family

allergic ? Have you had any allergy test performed ? If the test was

positive, have you managed to get rid of the allergens in your

environment/food and have you tried allergy desens ?

3) does your mucus shift color " randomly " , or is is always in the

sequence : clear -> yellow -> green -> yellow -> clear (which would

indicate infection, then resolution) ? And how long can it stay clear ?

Has it been tested for IgE (allergy) ?

4) are you often subjected to new viruses and germs (for instance, if

you are in daily professional contact with many people, if you raise

young children, if you are a schoolteacher, if you take public transport

or planes often) ? If you irrigate, do you correctly disinfect your

irrigation device ? Are you sure you have no dental infection?

5) finally, to see if there really is a germ, good access to your

sinuses, or as close as possible, is necessary. Germ cultures from nasal

swabs yield many false negatives (meaning the patient has a germ, but

the culture reports none), so an endoscopic swab far inside is

recommended. Even if there is no germ, an ENT would likely give you an

antibiotic, just to see if things improve a bit. Then, if things still

do not improve, he might order a new CT scan to see how it looks like

inside, and assess possibilities from this point on.

> > >

> > > How do you know when you have a sinus infection and not just

Samters

> > thick mucous? I've had two surgeries and after each, I was told that

> > there was no infection and no fungus. I'm starting to think I have

an

> > infection. What are you tell-tale symptoms?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Christy

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Below I have answered the questions because this may be an interesting poll.

Thanks for asking,

Pam

asfy wrote:

> Well, you sure have chronic rhinosinusitis with polyps by any standard.

> Now, to progress from this point, you would have to investigate in a few

> directions :

>

> 1) first, are you sure that you are intolerant to aspirin ? What kind of

> reactions to aspirin or NSAIDs have you experienced in the past before

> being treated ? Since no member of your family is aspirin-intolerant,

> being sure that you really are is important.

>

I am sure about my intolerance to NSAIDs. I wasn't when I was younger

and no family has this intolerance.

> 2) second, what is your allergy status ? Are members of your family

> allergic ? Have you had any allergy test performed ? If the test was

> positive, have you managed to get rid of the allergens in your

> environment/food and have you tried allergy desens ?

>

I have many allergies that have grown in number and severity with age.

Many in my family also have allergies, but mine are the worse. I have

tried shots and gave up after a year due to inconvenience. Avoidance

works well for me.

> 3) does your mucus shift color " randomly " , or is is always in the

> sequence : clear -> yellow -> green -> yellow -> clear (which would

> indicate infection, then resolution) ? And how long can it stay clear ?

> Has it been tested for IgE (allergy) ?

>

The sequence is predictable and I can tell when I'm going down. I have

become skilled at early intervention and rarely take antibiotics.

> 4) are you often subjected to new viruses and germs (for instance, if

> you are in daily professional contact with many people, if you raise

> young children, if you are a schoolteacher, if you take public transport

> or planes often) ? If you irrigate, do you correctly disinfect your

> irrigation device ? Are you sure you have no dental infection?

>

Yes, yes and yes. I have suspected my teeth in the past and the dentist

suggested a sinus infection. He was right.

> 5) finally, to see if there really is a germ, good access to your

> sinuses, or as close as possible, is necessary. Germ cultures from nasal

> swabs yield many false negatives (meaning the patient has a germ, but

> the culture reports none), so an endoscopic swab far inside is

> recommended. Even if there is no germ, an ENT would likely give you an

> antibiotic, just to see if things improve a bit. Then, if things still

> do not improve, he might order a new CT scan to see how it looks like

> inside, and assess possibilities from this point on.

>

I have never had a germ culture. The first CT I had was very

informative because it showed the polyps, but since then the infections

have been as obvious as regrown polyps. I believe that finding what was

causing my inflammation was the key to controlling my infections and

polyps. There are many sources for me. I am desensitized to ASA and it

helps but the big relief was from acid reflux medication.

We are all a bit different in what triggers our inflammation. Of course!

Pam (eastern shore of land)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was at a medical conference once and son, MD of Scripps Clinic gave a lecture and said (either during the lecture or to me personally) that there is usually some degree of sinus infection in patients with Samter's (Aspirin Sensitive Rhinosinusitis and Asthma). I think he is right. Dr. son knows more than most MDs in the US and the world about this subject. In my own case, I think I always have some degree of infection, but sometimes it gets worse, especially when I get run down. The mucous becomes thicker and greener and sometimes I get a sore throat (mild or moderate).Bob >> How do you know when you have a sinus infection and not just Samters thick mucous? I've had two surgeries and after each, I was told that there was no infection and no fungus. I'm starting to think I have an infection. What are you tell-tale symptoms?> > Thanks,> Christy>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob,

Infection obviously is a major problem in Samter's. I, for one, am

persuaded that Samter's creates the basis for a abnormal immune response

to antigens, whatever their origin.

Antigens could be allergens, fungi, or bacteria, or maybe even

persistent viruses, and, depending on what they are, the vicious circle

between Samter's and the antigen is accelerating more or less fast.

Some rhinologists now believe that chronic rhinosinusitis with nasal

polyps already creates this immune dysfunction basis, so it is logical

that Samter's, which is more dysfunctional than CRS-NP, creates an even

wider basis for a permanent immunological breach.

I also feel the same as you, meaning that, as time goes by, periods that

could qualify as infection-free are fewer and shorter, and more

unstable. My opinion is that is due to a bacterial biofilm. On a normal

mucosa, lactoferrin and other antimicrobial peptides will deter biofilm

formation. On a Samter's mucosa, however, there are many opportunities

for bacteria to set up shop. In chronic rhinosinusitis, it is well known

that the bacterial flora is quite different from that of simple,

isolated acute rhinosinusitis. For instance, in CRS, major germs are

often Pseudomonas aeruginosa and S. aureus, which are less often found

in non-chronic RS. These two are notorious for their biofilm-forming

capacity. They are found on all surfaces, at least SA, and can get into

your nose easily, jsu by touching your face close enough ; also, it has

been recently shown that shower heads harbor mycobacteria in high

concentrations. If you live in moldy areas, spores can easily get

carried by the air inside the airways. etc

If such is the case, then eradication is a prerequisite for any

improvement. So, the first thing to do would be to test for infestation

- allergy tests, endoscopic swab, etc. Give medications a try, and then

if it fails, surgery is unavoidable. Note that, even after surgery,

reinfestation is possible and indeed common after a period of time, but

proprely accompanied surgery gives a blank slate. Now, if the triggers

are not infestation-related, the impact of surgery will be less

positive.

In your case, how long do you stay " infection-free " on average ? How

long can your mucus stay clear ?

Do antibiotics have any effect ? Do you irrigate ?

> >

> > How do you know when you have a sinus infection and not just Samters

> thick mucous? I've had two surgeries and after each, I was told that

> there was no infection and no fungus. I'm starting to think I have an

> infection. What are you tell-tale symptoms?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Christy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In answer to your questions:I go long periods of time (months) "infection free" compared to infection symptoms I had when I was under more stress in the past. On the other hand, I am not sure I am ever really truly infection free. Most of my nasal congestion and thick mucous is left sided and is post nasal in the am or at night, with some thick mucous from the nose occasionally during the day. Sometimes, however, my nose just runs from both nostrils with watery mucous and I am congested and this tends to last perhaps 1/2 to 1 hour.I think antibiotics have an effect when the mucous has changed significantly from baseline and is thicker and more colored than usual, and I have had it for at least a week, and have other symptoms (sore throat, tiredness). I try not to use antibiotics and have not used any for at least 6 months and have gone periods of a year or more without any antibiotic use. Recently I am using Flonase drops at bedtime in a head inverted position. About 0.2-.03 ml left side and 0.15 right side. I am now going to try irrigating again before bedtime with salt water. I take 2, 365 mg aspirin enteric coated "Adult" a day with food. I also am now using nasal strips across the nose at night to help breathe.When last examined about 1 year ago I had polyps, especially left sided. I have no sense of smell, although occasionally I think I get a faint whiff of strong scents like mint toothpaste, although I am not sure. I can generally breathe through both nostrils during the day. I have some trouble breathing through the nose at night, especially both nostrils at once, but the nasal strips seem to have helped that. I have occasional mild asthmatic wheezing, but nothing compared to the past when I was under more stressBob> > >> > > How do you know when you have a sinus infection and not just Samters> > thick mucous? I've had two surgeries and after each, I was told that> > there was no infection and no fungus. I'm starting to think I have an> > infection. What are you tell-tale symptoms?> > >> > > Thanks,> > > Christy> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

When I was young and invincible, I would shun drugs, turn to fresh air

as my first remedy, and tough it out. I got terribly sick that way.

Now I double my efforts at the first sign. First, the preventive

measures- clean my bedroom of all dust mites, wash my sinus with the

Grossan till it runs clear, take two packets of Emergen-C (powdered

vitamin C and B plus) and drink lots of water. Second the drugs, I

double all the maintenance doses of aspirin, nasonex and pulmicort. I

add Mucinex (guafenesin) and chlorpheniramine. The newer antihistamines

don't work as well for me. I'll take albuterol after the first wheeze.

If I'm clearly not winning the battle, I'll turn to prednisone. That

hasn't been needed in three years.

I moved across the country to a place that has a shortage of doctors and

most of them are not taking new patients. Without my support network I

decided to be more aggressive with self medication based on what I

learned the hard way. This has worked out well for me. Most of my days

are normal, now. This is the same tactic I use on weeds that I finally

concurred. When I see just a seedling, I dig it out instead of waiting

for it to go to seed to find out what it is.

SLIT, sub lingual immunitherapy, is only available in Europe right now.

There is a trial at Hopkins I'm considering, but it is two hours away.

Great idea though, I'll be on it as soon as I can get it.

My spell checker is unhappy with this post, so correct on your way.

Pam

asfy wrote:

> Pam, what do you use as " early intervention " when you suspect a budding

> infection ?

> Why don't you try sublingual immunotherapy against allergies ? I am

> doing it for dust mites, and I believe it works.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you have little or no allergy, if your mucus has been green for some

time whereas it is clear when not sick, and if it does not clear by

itself after a week, then bacterial infection is most likely. Logically,

facial and sinus discomfort should gradually increase from this point

on.

For someone with a dysfunctional mucosa as in Samter's, being a teacher

certainly makes a minimal number of infections (bacterial and viral) per

year nearly unavoidable.

To clean irrigation devices, use dilute bleach (like 1 drop in 100 ml),

run it, let it dry, then run it again once or twice with a little

bottled water before use to rinse the dried bleach away.

> > > > >

> > > > > How do you know when you have a sinus infection and not just

> > Samters

> > > > thick mucous? I've had two surgeries and after each, I was told

that

> > > > there was no infection and no fungus. I'm starting to think I

have

> > an

> > > > infection. What are you tell-tale symptoms?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > Christy

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Someone just posted about using silver and one of the things they use it for is

sinus infections.

I would like to know what others use and how you use it.

I had my 2nd sinus infection. when my home remedies didnt work I went to the

doctor and he said it WAS a sinus infection and gave me a prescription. I had

been using the netti pot twice a day with the salt packet and some peroxide

added.

I continued with nasal irrigations while on the prescription (twice a day) and

put a little silver in each pot.

A few days after the meds were done, I irritaged and within seconds my sinuses

filled up. Once again I could not clear up my nose.

This time the doctor prescribed cipro which worked.

(Now I am taking probiotics... which the nurse said was not necessary)

I have been afraid to use the silver again. Please give me your advice and

suggestions.

This year I have been using the premixed salt packets in the netti pot. I used

to mix my own.

[Guest guest]

just went through a similar situation...and well, the probiotics absolutely

helped (actually cleared things immediately when things were not too bad -

boulardii specifically) and then when things got just impossible...three tablets

of arnica performed miracles. I repeated them every 3-ish hours over about a

day...cleared me up, made me feel better and then the next day I coughed out

whatever was leftover and I am happy. 

From: snafflesnshelties <snaffles@...>

Subject: Sinus Infections

Dr

Date: Saturday, January 15, 2011, 4:37 AM

 

Someone just posted about using silver and one of the things they use it

for is sinus infections.

I would like to know what others use and how you use it.

I had my 2nd sinus infection. when my home remedies didnt work I went to the

doctor and he said it WAS a sinus infection and gave me a prescription. I had

been using the netti pot twice a day with the salt packet and some peroxide

added.

I continued with nasal irrigations while on the prescription (twice a day) and

put a little silver in each pot.

A few days after the meds were done, I irritaged and within seconds my sinuses

filled up. Once again I could not clear up my nose.

This time the doctor prescribed cipro which worked.

(Now I am taking probiotics... which the nurse said was not necessary)

I have been afraid to use the silver again. Please give me your advice and

suggestions.

This year I have been using the premixed salt packets in the netti pot. I used

to mix my own.

[Guest guest]

We have heard good reports from people using our FreeCoil

SuperZappicator on sinuses, simply laying their head on it for 30

minutes. See more and watch the videos at

www.BestZapper.com/super-zapper.html Many folks place it under the

pillow, start the cycle, and go to sleep.

God bless you!

Arthur

www.BestZapper.com

www.ZapperExperts.com

www.ZapperStories.com

On 1/15/2011 4:37 AM, snafflesnshelties wrote:

>

> Someone just posted about using silver and one of the things they use

> it for is sinus infections.

>

> I would like to know what others use and how you use it.

>

> I had my 2nd sinus infection. when my home remedies didnt work I went

> to the doctor and he said it WAS a sinus infection and gave me a

> prescription. I had been using the netti pot twice a day with the salt

> packet and some peroxide added.

>

> I continued with nasal irrigations while on the prescription (twice a

> day) and put a little silver in each pot.

>

> A few days after the meds were done, I irritaged and within seconds my

> sinuses filled up. Once again I could not clear up my nose.

>

> This time the doctor prescribed cipro which worked.

> (Now I am taking probiotics... which the nurse said was not necessary)

>

> I have been afraid to use the silver again. Please give me your advice

> and suggestions.

>

> This year I have been using the premixed salt packets in the netti

> pot. I used to mix my own.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have read that many people get relief with sinus problems by oil pulling. I

have started oil pulling and have been doing it for a little over a month. I am

sleeping better, my skin is smoother and I am using it to help detox my body. I

do not have sinus issues, but it helps with so many things. You can check it

out at www.oilpulling.org or several other sites on the internet. I hope that

you will find something that helps you.

Deborah

>

> Someone just posted about using silver and one of the things they use it for

is sinus infections.

>

> I would like to know what others use and how you use it.

>

> I had my 2nd sinus infection. when my home remedies didnt work I went to the

doctor and he said it WAS a sinus infection and gave me a prescription. I had

been using the netti pot twice a day with the salt packet and some peroxide

added.

>

> I continued with nasal irrigations while on the prescription (twice a day) and

put a little silver in each pot.

>

> A few days after the meds were done, I irritaged and within seconds my sinuses

filled up. Once again I could not clear up my nose.

>

> This time the doctor prescribed cipro which worked.

> (Now I am taking probiotics... which the nurse said was not necessary)

>

> I have been afraid to use the silver again. Please give me your advice and

suggestions.

>

> This year I have been using the premixed salt packets in the netti pot. I used

to mix my own.

>