Mold Remediation/vapor barrier

[Guest guest]

So, a status report regarding our icemaker that broke and flooded our

condo. I've talked about this before, but this happened on date of

escrow in January and we are still not living in the condo!

Can I ask any of you who have had a waterloss and then mold

remediation some questions: We are now at a standstill because the

condo with adjoining wall also has mold because our condo flooded into

theirs! They were unconcerned before but the owner is now on 3

inhalers and now is very concerned. Their condo has been tested for

mold and they are to do their condo and also finish up some unfinished

areas in ours. (Would you believe that our condo PASSED their

clearance testing?) This was very upsetting to me as they knew that

the back of their wallboard had visible mold 1 1/2 feet up the

wall. They said they cleaned it and would see how testing came back.

I said if you could clean wall board then why did they take out all my

wallboard up 4 feet? (I have nothing left, kitchen and bathroom are

gutted, all walls gone up 4 feet, and garage is gutted.)

So, why would they leave that common wallboard, and then the mold

testing company passed it!

However, as I said they are now realizing they have to take down

their wall board too. Another question: how do you do two condos? Do

we put up our wallboard and then do their mold remediation? Then

spores get on our wallboard? Or do we do theirs and then come back in

and do air scrubbers in ours? Also put up plastic inside the wall?

Here is another headache. The vapor barrier in our kitchen has

become tatters. It is only thin paper which is treated. (Evidently

this vapor barrier is on outside walls to keep the stucco from

leaching in water.) To add to the complication the kitchen wall is

the back of the neighbor's patio. They have a loose flower bed up

against the wall which they will have to move.

So, now there are two issues.

-The mold testing and mold remediation company think vapor barrier is

not to be touched under any circumstances. They admit that it is

obviously moldy. But, said. " You can button up the wall and then take

down the wall from the outside to replace the vapor barrier because

that ist he only way to replace vapor barrier. They don't touch vapor

barriers under any circumstances! Doesn't that sound ridiculous? I

said I do not want to put up new wallboard and insulation against

moldy, moldy vapor barrier. Also, NO ONE has said that they will

replace that outside wall. They are still considering the best way to

deal with it. Put a sealant on the stucco outside. sigh Then the issue

is who will pay for it, insurance company, neighbor, Homeowner's

association. So, now the neighbor is probably upset with me.

Does anyone know of a site that lays out info on what a mold

remediation company does in some of these situations? What should you

expect from a mold remediation company? I am upset because they

refused to put into writing that that common wall had visible mold on

it. They would tell me verbally, but not in writing. They also didn't

take pictures, and didn't give me any reports on their progress. Only

that they did hepa vacuum, sanding etc. Nothing about what they saw.

Thanks for your insight into any of this.

Arlene

[Guest guest]

Arlene

I shared your email with one of the remediation professionals that The Mold Source.com refers site visitors to; the following was his response to your question(s)

Several questions to answer here. Let's try one issue at a time.

1) The common wall between the two condos (I am asuming) was insulated. That

means that it should have been remediated to at least four feet on each side

to ensure that all framing members (2x4's) were sanded and treated to avoid

the return of the infestation.

2) The stucco on the outside of the residence may have been another source

of mold. The vapor barrier, usually placed on the inside of the framing

members, will trap the moisture from the wet stucco while it is being

applied.

3) It is highly likely that the remaining wallboard on the common wall

passed the clearance test because it was treated, sealed and possibly

scraped. But that simply removed the mold from the surface. Also, the

testing company tested for the presence of mold, not the toxins from the

mold infestation.

4) I agree that the flower bed should be removed. It will allow moisture to

stay in direct contact with the exterior wall and water will always travel

the easiest path, whether that is down or to the interior of the wall.

5) Coverage on this incident is a very complicated issue. The Homeowners'

Association should have those answers since they deal with these issues on a

regular basis. However, since the refrigerator leaked and caused the problem

(or at least made it visible), the owner of the refrigerator may be held

responsible.

6) The testing company and the remediation company should have reported any

findings that were made in your condo. The findings from the other condos,

however, are regarded as sensitive and should not be reported to anyone but

that homeowner or his designee.

7) As far as treatment, it would be far more advantageous to treat both

condos as one building. Remove the contents to separate sites, then treat

the building, not the separate homes therein. Treating each as a separate

site will allow the spread of spores to the untreated side. Do all the

remediation, then treat the entire structure or at least the affected area.

Kev

>From: imd <imd@...>

><kevandterri@...>

>Subject: How would you answer this lady? What's your thoughts?

>Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 09:04:49 -0500

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>FILETIME=[bFADB130:01C25740]

>

>So, a status report regarding our icemaker that broke and flooded our

>condo. I've talked about this before, but this happened on date of

>escrow in January and we are still not living in the condo!

> Can I ask any of you who have had a waterloss and then mold

>remediation some questions: We are now at a standstill because the

>condo with adjoining wall also has mold because our condo flooded into

>theirs! They were unconcerned before but the owner is now on 3

>inhalers and now is very concerned. Their condo has been tested for

>mold and they are to do their condo and also finish up some unfinished

>areas in ours. (Would you believe that our condo PASSED their

>clearance testing?) This was very upsetting to me as they knew that

>the back of their wallboard had visible mold 1 1/2 feet up the

>wall. They said they cleaned it and would see how testing came back.

>I said if you could clean wall board then why did they take out all my

>wallboard up 4 feet? (I have nothing left, kitchen and bathroom are

>gutted, all walls gone up 4 feet, and garage is gutted.)

>So, why would they leave that common wallboard, and then the mold

>testing company passed it!

> However, as I said they are now realizing they have to take down

>their wall board too. Another question: how do you do two condos? Do

>we put up our wallboard and then do their mold remediation? Then

>spores get on our wallboard? Or do we do theirs and then come back in

>and do air scrubbers in ours? Also put up plastic inside the wall?

> Here is another headache. The vapor barrier in our kitchen has

>become tatters. It is only thin paper which is treated. (Evidently

>this vapor barrier is on outside walls to keep the stucco from

>leaching in water.) To add to the complication the kitchen wall is

>the back of the neighbor's patio. They have a loose flower bed up

>against the wall which they will have to move.

>So, now there are two issues.

>-The mold testing and mold remediation company think vapor barrier is

>not to be touched under any circumstances. They admit that it is

>obviously moldy. But, said. " You can button up the wall and then take

>down the wall from the outside to replace the vapor barrier because

>that ist he only way to replace vapor barrier. They don't touch vapor

>barriers under any circumstances! Doesn't that sound ridiculous? I

>said I do not want to put up new wallboard and insulation against

>moldy, moldy vapor barrier. Also, NO ONE has said that they will

>replace that outside wall. They are still considering the best way to

>deal with it. Put a sealant on the stucco outside. sigh Then the issue

>is who will pay for it, insurance company, neighbor, Homeowner's

>association. So, now the neighbor is probably upset with me.

> Does anyone know of a site that lays out info on what a mold

>remediation company does in some of these situations? What should you

>expect from a mold remediation company? I am upset because they

>refused to put into writing that that common wall had visible mold on

>it. They would tell me verbally, but not in writing. They also didn't

>take pictures, and didn't give me any reports on their progress. Only

>that they did hepa vacuum, sanding etc. Nothing about what they saw.

>Thanks for your insight into any of this.

>Arlene

>

, Terri and the Kids

_________________________________________________________________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

http://www.hotmail.com

> From: " arounce " <arounce@...>

> Reply-

> Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 13:07:43 -0000

>

> Subject: [] Mold Remediation/vapor barrier

>

> So, a status report regarding our icemaker that broke and flooded our

> condo. I've talked about this before, but this happened on date of

> escrow in January and we are still not living in the condo!

> Can I ask any of you who have had a waterloss and then mold

> remediation some questions: We are now at a standstill because the

> condo with adjoining wall also has mold because our condo flooded into

> theirs! They were unconcerned before but the owner is now on 3

> inhalers and now is very concerned. Their condo has been tested for

> mold and they are to do their condo and also finish up some unfinished

> areas in ours. (Would you believe that our condo PASSED their

> clearance testing?) This was very upsetting to me as they knew that

> the back of their wallboard had visible mold 1 1/2 feet up the

> wall. They said they cleaned it and would see how testing came back.

> I said if you could clean wall board then why did they take out all my

> wallboard up 4 feet? (I have nothing left, kitchen and bathroom are

> gutted, all walls gone up 4 feet, and garage is gutted.)

> So, why would they leave that common wallboard, and then the mold

> testing company passed it!

> However, as I said they are now realizing they have to take down

> their wall board too. Another question: how do you do two condos? Do

> we put up our wallboard and then do their mold remediation? Then

> spores get on our wallboard? Or do we do theirs and then come back in

> and do air scrubbers in ours? Also put up plastic inside the wall?

> Here is another headache. The vapor barrier in our kitchen has

> become tatters. It is only thin paper which is treated. (Evidently

> this vapor barrier is on outside walls to keep the stucco from

> leaching in water.) To add to the complication the kitchen wall is

> the back of the neighbor's patio. They have a loose flower bed up

> against the wall which they will have to move.

> So, now there are two issues.

> -The mold testing and mold remediation company think vapor barrier is

> not to be touched under any circumstances. They admit that it is

> obviously moldy. But, said. " You can button up the wall and then take

> down the wall from the outside to replace the vapor barrier because

> that ist he only way to replace vapor barrier. They don't touch vapor

> barriers under any circumstances! Doesn't that sound ridiculous? I

> said I do not want to put up new wallboard and insulation against

> moldy, moldy vapor barrier. Also, NO ONE has said that they will

> replace that outside wall. They are still considering the best way to

> deal with it. Put a sealant on the stucco outside. sigh Then the issue

> is who will pay for it, insurance company, neighbor, Homeowner's

> association. So, now the neighbor is probably upset with me.

> Does anyone know of a site that lays out info on what a mold

> remediation company does in some of these situations? What should you

> expect from a mold remediation company? I am upset because they

> refused to put into writing that that common wall had visible mold on

> it. They would tell me verbally, but not in writing. They also didn't

> take pictures, and didn't give me any reports on their progress. Only

> that they did hepa vacuum, sanding etc. Nothing about what they saw.

> Thanks for your insight into any of this.

> Arlene

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , Thanks so much for your advice. I believe that you are

correct in how the common wall passed clearance testing. They did sand

off the mold and " tried " to clean it. When they did clearance testing

they said it was ok. HOWEVER, clearance testing was not cultured. They

took a piece of the wallboard from my side, They did go up 4' and they

took the sample from the bottom of this area. Testing did show level 1

contamination of Chaemonium. Which to them level 1 is not worth

worrying about. This wallboard backs up the the other contaminated

wallboard of the neighbor's condo. Now, they have a wall of mirrors on

this wall, that is STILL testing as WET--8 months after the water

loss. So, now I also worry that they need to keep taking our wall

board as high as they take theirs because of the possibility that

their entire wallboard is contaminated from the mirrors that never

allowed the wall to dry.

I agree that both condo's should be done at the same time. Sad fact

is that ours has already been done, and now we have to wait while they

get around to do the other one. Plus then finish ours up too. They

have their furniture etc in there, ours in the only lucky part of this

thing, was empty since it was date of escrow.

Right now the Homeowner's Association is covering the loss in the

major part. However, the current issue is how to deal with the

deteriorated vapor barrier. This we don't know if was caused by this

water loss or from the flower bed, etc. (Their patio backs onto our

kitchen.) Everyone thinks that vapor barrier has to be left there even

if it is shredded and moldy. Can anyone explain this? The mold testing

and the mold remediation company both don't want anything to do with

the vapor barrier! I want then to take down the visible moldy vapor

barrier and clean the stucco. They both have black powdery substance

which is suspiciously just like the Stachy that we had in the house.

Mold testing company admits it is moldy. But, says best to put up new

wallboard and then take down the stucco from t he other side. No one

has said they will do that to replace the vapor barrier, and I don't

want mold in my wall from contamination to the wallboard and

insulation. That sounds very stupid to me! Thoughts on this?

Any way to replace vapor barrier without taking down the wall?

water seal. I'd hate to go through alllllllllllll this and

then have mold in that kitchen wall because we have no vapor barrier

and we have mold spores from this loss in there. The patio behind

would be washed down, plants watered etc. Very open to water

intrusion. Plus there is another wall that is not as bad in the

kitchen that goes to our backyard and not to patio. So, perhaps this

is a result of the water loss? Wahhhhh, I'm sick of this! Thanks for

listening! I have argued so much the last 8 months that I am making

myself sick. I had EKG for chest pain and now have to have stress

test. I can't believe these people can torture all of us and make it

go on and on. I feel so much for all of what everyone is going

through. It is nice to have a place for support. :-)

>

>

> Arlene

>

> I shared your email with one of the remediation professionals that

The Mold

> Source.com refers site visitors to; the following was his response

to your

> question(s)

>

> Several questions to answer here. Let's try one issue at a time.

> 1) The common wall between the two condos (I am asuming) was

insulated. That

> means that it should have been remediated to at least four feet on

each side

> to ensure that all framing members (2x4's) were sanded and treated

to avoid

> the return of the infestation.

>

> 2) The stucco on the outside of the residence may have been another

source

> of mold. The vapor barrier, usually placed on the inside of the

framing

> members, will trap the moisture from the wet stucco while it is

being

> applied.

>

> 3) It is highly likely that the remaining wallboard on the common

wall

> passed the clearance test because it was treated, sealed and

possibly

> scraped. But that simply removed the mold from the surface. Also,

the

> testing company tested for the presence of mold, not the toxins from

the

> mold infestation.

>

> 4) I agree that the flower bed should be removed. It will allow

moisture to

> stay in direct contact with the exterior wall and water will always

travel

> the easiest path, whether that is down or to the interior of the

wall.

>

> 5) Coverage on this incident is a very complicated issue. The

Homeowners'

> Association should have those answers since they deal with these

issues on a

> regular basis. However, since the refrigerator leaked and caused the

problem

> (or at least made it visible), the owner of the refrigerator may be

held

> responsible.

>

> 6) The testing company and the remediation company should have

reported any

> findings that were made in your condo. The findings from the other

condos,

> however, are regarded as sensitive and should not be reported to

anyone but

> that homeowner or his designee.

>

> 7) As far as treatment, it would be far more advantageous to treat

both

> condos as one building. Remove the contents to separate sites, then

treat

> the building, not the separate homes therein. Treating each as a

separate

> site will allow the spread of spores to the untreated side. Do all

the

> remediation, then treat the entire structure or at least the

affected area.

>

>

> Kev

>

>

> >From: imd <imd@t...>

> ><kevandterri@h...>

> >Subject: How would you answer this lady? What's your thoughts?

> >Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 09:04:49 -0500

> >MIME-Version: 1.0

> >Received: from smtpout.ev1.net ([207.44.129.134]) by

> >mc4-f35.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600);

Sun, 8 Sep

> >2002 07:05:12 -0700

> >Received: from [216.40.218.144] [216.40.218.144] by smtpout.ev1.net

with

> >ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A9934FF000E6; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 09:07:15

-0500

> >User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022

> >Message-ID: <B9A0C331.6FD1%imd@t...>

> >Return-Path: imd@t...

> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Sep 2002 14:05:12.0515 (UTC)

> >FILETIME=[bFADB130:01C25740]

> >

> >So, a status report regarding our icemaker that broke and flooded

our

> >condo. I've talked about this before, but this happened on date of

> >escrow in January and we are still not living in the condo!

> > Can I ask any of you who have had a waterloss and then mold

> >remediation some questions: We are now at a standstill because the

> >condo with adjoining wall also has mold because our condo flooded

into

> >theirs! They were unconcerned before but the owner is now on 3

> >inhalers and now is very concerned. Their condo has been tested for

> >mold and they are to do their condo and also finish up some

unfinished

> >areas in ours. (Would you believe that our condo PASSED their

> >clearance testing?) This was very upsetting to me as they knew that

> >the back of their wallboard had visible mold 1 1/2 feet up the

> >wall. They said they cleaned it and would see how testing came

back.

> >I said if you could clean wall board then why did they take out all

my

> >wallboard up 4 feet? (I have nothing left, kitchen and bathroom are

> >gutted, all walls gone up 4 feet, and garage is gutted.)

> >So, why would they leave that common wallboard, and then the mold

> >testing company passed it!

> > However, as I said they are now realizing they have to take down

> >their wall board too. Another question: how do you do two condos?

Do

> >we put up our wallboard and then do their mold remediation? Then

> >spores get on our wallboard? Or do we do theirs and then come back

in

> >and do air scrubbers in ours? Also put up plastic inside the wall?

> > Here is another headache. The vapor barrier in our kitchen has

> >become tatters. It is only thin paper which is treated. (Evidently

> >this vapor barrier is on outside walls to keep the stucco from

> >leaching in water.) To add to the complication the kitchen wall is

> >the back of the neighbor's patio. They have a loose flower bed up

> >against the wall which they will have to move.

> >So, now there are two issues.

> >-The mold testing and mold remediation company think vapor barrier

is

> >not to be touched under any circumstances. They admit that it is

> >obviously moldy. But, said. " You can button up the wall and then

take

> >down the wall from the outside to replace the vapor barrier because

> >that ist he only way to replace vapor barrier. They don't touch

vapor

> >barriers under any circumstances! Doesn't that sound ridiculous? I

> >said I do not want to put up new wallboard and insulation against

> >moldy, moldy vapor barrier. Also, NO ONE has said that they will

> >replace that outside wall. They are still considering the best way

to

> >deal with it. Put a sealant on the stucco outside. sigh Then the

issue

> >is who will pay for it, insurance company, neighbor, Homeowner's

> >association. So, now the neighbor is probably upset with me.

> > Does anyone know of a site that lays out info on what a mold

> >remediation company does in some of these situations? What should

you

> >expect from a mold remediation company? I am upset because they

> >refused to put into writing that that common wall had visible mold

on

> >it. They would tell me verbally, but not in writing. They also

didn't

> >take pictures, and didn't give me any reports on their progress.

Only

> >that they did hepa vacuum, sanding etc. Nothing about what they

saw.

> >Thanks for your insight into any of this.

> >Arlene

> >

>

>

>

>

> , Terri and the Kids

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

> > From: " arounce " <arounce@a...>

> > Reply-@y...

> > Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 13:07:43 -0000

> > @y...

> > Subject: [] Mold Remediation/vapor barrier

> >

> > So, a status report regarding our icemaker that broke and flooded

our

> > condo. I've talked about this before, but this happened on date of

> > escrow in January and we are still not living in the condo!

> > Can I ask any of you who have had a waterloss and then mold

> > remediation some questions: We are now at a standstill because the

> > condo with adjoining wall also has mold because our condo flooded

into

> > theirs! They were unconcerned before but the owner is now on 3

> > inhalers and now is very concerned. Their condo has been tested

for

> > mold and they are to do their condo and also finish up some

unfinished

> > areas in ours. (Would you believe that our condo PASSED their

> > clearance testing?) This was very upsetting to me as they knew

that

> > the back of their wallboard had visible mold 1 1/2 feet up the

> > wall. They said they cleaned it and would see how testing came

back.

> > I said if you could clean wall board then why did they take out

all my

> > wallboard up 4 feet? (I have nothing left, kitchen and bathroom

are

> > gutted, all walls gone up 4 feet, and garage is gutted.)

> > So, why would they leave that common wallboard, and then the mold

> > testing company passed it!

> > However, as I said they are now realizing they have to take down

> > their wall board too. Another question: how do you do two condos?

Do

> > we put up our wallboard and then do their mold remediation? Then

> > spores get on our wallboard? Or do we do theirs and then come back

in

> > and do air scrubbers in ours? Also put up plastic inside the wall?

> > Here is another headache. The vapor barrier in our kitchen has

> > become tatters. It is only thin paper which is treated. (Evidently

> > this vapor barrier is on outside walls to keep the stucco from

> > leaching in water.) To add to the complication the kitchen wall is

> > the back of the neighbor's patio. They have a loose flower bed up

> > against the wall which they will have to move.

> > So, now there are two issues.

> > -The mold testing and mold remediation company think vapor barrier

is

> > not to be touched under any circumstances. They admit that it is

> > obviously moldy. But, said. " You can button up the wall and then

take

> > down the wall from the outside to replace the vapor barrier

because

> > that ist he only way to replace vapor barrier. They don't touch

vapor

> > barriers under any circumstances! Doesn't that sound ridiculous? I

> > said I do not want to put up new wallboard and insulation against

> > moldy, moldy vapor barrier. Also, NO ONE has said that they will

> > replace that outside wall. They are still considering the best way

to

> > deal with it. Put a sealant on the stucco outside. sigh Then the

issue

> > is who will pay for it, insurance company, neighbor, Homeowner's

> > association. So, now the neighbor is probably upset with me.

> > Does anyone know of a site that lays out info on what a mold

> > remediation company does in some of these situations? What should

you

> > expect from a mold remediation company? I am upset because they

> > refused to put into writing that that common wall had visible mold

on

> > it. They would tell me verbally, but not in writing. They also

didn't

> > take pictures, and didn't give me any reports on their progress.

Only

> > that they did hepa vacuum, sanding etc. Nothing about what they

saw.

> > Thanks for your insight into any of this.

> > Arlene

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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> >

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