Re: Hormones Improved without Symptoms Improving

[Guest guest]

What was your total t the first time around?

> Hey Guys,

>

> I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's something

> seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The results here

> were completely different then my last test, but I don't feel any

> better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still have similar

> sexual dysfunctions.

>

> The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My previous Test

> was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to get to the

> testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it, could that

> have an effect as well.

>

> My Current Test:

> ---------------------------

> TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

> LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

> Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

> SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

> Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

> Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

> Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20 nmol/L

>

> My Previous Test Results:

> -----------------------------

> Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

> LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

> FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

> Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

> SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

> Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

> Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

>

> I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same symptoms

yet

> my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then from the last

> time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There are no

places

> to test DHT here in Canada.

>

> Has anyone else experienced such huge difference, between their

test

> results without improvement in their symptoms.

>

> Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment, I need.

>

> Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Hi Army,

They wouldn't test my Total T, the first time. But my Free T, was

much lower and the range for LH was different.

Now, I have no idea what to do.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

> > Hey Guys,

> >

> > I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's something

> > seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The results here

> > were completely different then my last test, but I don't feel any

> > better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still have similar

> > sexual dysfunctions.

> >

> > The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My previous

Test

> > was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to get to the

> > testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it, could that

> > have an effect as well.

> >

> > My Current Test:

> > ---------------------------

> > TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

> > LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

> > Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

> > SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

> > Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

> > Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20 nmol/L

> >

> > My Previous Test Results:

> > -----------------------------

> > Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

> > LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

> > FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

> > Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

> > SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

> > Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

> >

> > I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same symptoms

> yet

> > my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then from the

last

> > time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There are no

> places

> > to test DHT here in Canada.

> >

> > Has anyone else experienced such huge difference, between their

> test

> > results without improvement in their symptoms.

> >

> > Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment, I need.

> >

> > Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Hello

Are you currently on TRT? If so, what was your T before you

started? Why were you placed on TRT? What are your symptoms?

What was your Estradiol the second time?

Also, what are your symptoms?

I think there are many of us, myself included, that expect too much

from TRT. There are some people who have a miraculous reaction to

TRT, but I think the majority of us need to expect a slow gradual

improvement where we wake up one day and say, Boy I feel good.

> Hey Guys,

>

> I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's something

> seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The results here

> were completely different then my last test, but I don't feel any

> better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still have similar

> sexual dysfunctions.

>

> The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My previous Test

> was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to get to the

> testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it, could that

> have an effect as well.

>

> My Current Test:

> ---------------------------

> TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

> LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

> Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

> SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

> Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

> Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

> Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20 nmol/L

>

> My Previous Test Results:

> -----------------------------

> Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

> LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

> FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

> Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

> SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

> Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

> Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

>

> I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same symptoms

yet

> my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then from the last

> time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There are no

places

> to test DHT here in Canada.

>

> Has anyone else experienced such huge difference, between their

test

> results without improvement in their symptoms.

>

> Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment, I need.

>

> Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Hi Tallen,

I am not on TRT, Im one of the people who are suffering from Propecia

Side Effects.

My endo doesn't believe measuring estradiol, Im seeing an MD who's

also a naturopath tomorrow, I'll ask him to write me up some new

blood work.

My Symptoms:

Lack of Emotions

No Ejaculate

(Only happens during Wet dreams, and that happens about once a month)

No Sex Drive

Errections aren't as strong as before

I just have no idea what to do right now.

> > Hey Guys,

> >

> > I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's something

> > seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The results here

> > were completely different then my last test, but I don't feel any

> > better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still have similar

> > sexual dysfunctions.

> >

> > The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My previous

Test

> > was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to get to the

> > testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it, could that

> > have an effect as well.

> >

> > My Current Test:

> > ---------------------------

> > TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

> > LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

> > Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

> > SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

> > Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

> > Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20 nmol/L

> >

> > My Previous Test Results:

> > -----------------------------

> > Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

> > LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

> > FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

> > Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

> > SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

> > Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

> >

> > I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same symptoms

> yet

> > my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then from the

last

> > time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There are no

> places

> > to test DHT here in Canada.

> >

> > Has anyone else experienced such huge difference, between their

> test

> > results without improvement in their symptoms.

> >

> > Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment, I need.

> >

> > Thanks!

[Guest guest]

I am really confused right now, I really don't know what's going on

with me. My LH levels before was on a different range, so LH I think

seems to have remained the same, but how did T levels go up so much.

> > > > Hey Guys,

> > > >

> > > > I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's

> something

> > > > seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The results

> here

> > > > were completely different then my last test, but I don't feel

> any

> > > > better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still have

> similar

> > > > sexual dysfunctions.

> > > >

> > > > The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My previous

> > Test

> > > > was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to get to

> the

> > > > testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it, could

> that

> > > > have an effect as well.

> > > >

> > > > My Current Test:

> > > > ---------------------------

> > > > TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

> > > > LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

> > > > Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

> > > > SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > > Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

> > > > Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

> > > > Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20 nmol/L

> > > >

> > > > My Previous Test Results:

> > > > -----------------------------

> > > > Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

> > > > LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

> > > > FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

> > > > Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

> > > > SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > > Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

> > > > Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

> > > >

> > > > I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same

> symptoms

> > > yet

> > > > my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then from the

> > last

> > > > time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There are no

> > > places

> > > > to test DHT here in Canada.

> > > >

> > > > Has anyone else experienced such huge difference, between

their

> > > test

> > > > results without improvement in their symptoms.

> > > >

> > > > Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment, I need.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks!

[Guest guest]

I actually disagree. I think the secret to success is in the right

mix of hormone profile. If you don't feel great, something is not

perfect in your treatment or/and your hormone profile. With a

totally corrected hormone profile 99% of us can feel GREAT.

That's my opinion.

Armyguy

> > Hey Guys,

> >

> > I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's something

> > seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The results

here

> > were completely different then my last test, but I don't feel

any

> > better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still have similar

> > sexual dysfunctions.

> >

> > The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My previous

Test

> > was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to get to

the

> > testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it, could

that

> > have an effect as well.

> >

> > My Current Test:

> > ---------------------------

> > TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

> > LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

> > Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

> > SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

> > Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

> > Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20 nmol/L

> >

> > My Previous Test Results:

> > -----------------------------

> > Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

> > LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

> > FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

> > Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

> > SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

> > Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

> >

> > I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same symptoms

> yet

> > my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then from the

last

> > time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There are no

> places

> > to test DHT here in Canada.

> >

> > Has anyone else experienced such huge difference, between their

> test

> > results without improvement in their symptoms.

> >

> > Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment, I need.

> >

> > Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Sounds like it could be depression related.

ARmyguy

> > > Hey Guys,

> > >

> > > I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's

something

> > > seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The results

here

> > > were completely different then my last test, but I don't feel

any

> > > better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still have

similar

> > > sexual dysfunctions.

> > >

> > > The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My previous

> Test

> > > was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to get to

the

> > > testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it, could

that

> > > have an effect as well.

> > >

> > > My Current Test:

> > > ---------------------------

> > > TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

> > > LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

> > > Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

> > > SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

> > > Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

> > > Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20 nmol/L

> > >

> > > My Previous Test Results:

> > > -----------------------------

> > > Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

> > > LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

> > > FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

> > > Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

> > > SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

> > > Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

> > >

> > > I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same

symptoms

> > yet

> > > my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then from the

> last

> > > time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There are no

> > places

> > > to test DHT here in Canada.

> > >

> > > Has anyone else experienced such huge difference, between

their

> > test

> > > results without improvement in their symptoms.

> > >

> > > Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment, I need.

> > >

> > > Thanks!

[Guest guest]

LH is fairly unimportant once in the normal range. It moves around

depending on a variety of factors including time of day.

If it is low normal, and t is low normal, it is a good indicator of

secondary hypo. If it is normal and t is normal, it doesn't mean

much.'

ARmyguy

> > > > > Hey Guys,

> > > > >

> > > > > I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's

> > something

> > > > > seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The

results

> > here

> > > > > were completely different then my last test, but I don't

feel

> > any

> > > > > better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still have

> > similar

> > > > > sexual dysfunctions.

> > > > >

> > > > > The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My

previous

> > > Test

> > > > > was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to get

to

> > the

> > > > > testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it,

could

> > that

> > > > > have an effect as well.

> > > > >

> > > > > My Current Test:

> > > > > ---------------------------

> > > > > TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

> > > > > LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

> > > > > Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

> > > > > SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > > > Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

> > > > > Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

> > > > > Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20 nmol/L

> > > > >

> > > > > My Previous Test Results:

> > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

> > > > > LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

> > > > > FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

> > > > > Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

> > > > > SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > > > Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

> > > > > Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

> > > > >

> > > > > I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same

> > symptoms

> > > > yet

> > > > > my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then from

the

> > > last

> > > > > time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There are

no

> > > > places

> > > > > to test DHT here in Canada.

> > > > >

> > > > > Has anyone else experienced such huge difference, between

> their

> > > > test

> > > > > results without improvement in their symptoms.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment, I

need.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks!

[Guest guest]

How much does LH affect T? Don't we need high LH to produce high T. I

have Low LH but High T.

My Free T levels were much lower last time, so I really don't know

what attributed to the sudden increase, nothing in my diet has

changed. I know there's still something wrong, and I really doubt its

depression. I wish it was, atleast that way I know for certain, I

would be able to recover from it.

I had the symptoms ever since taking propecia, but I've noticed my

ejaculation problems have gotten worse over time.

Can the test be affected by me walking 6 blocks to the testing lab?

Now, I really don't know where to look, or what to do. Any help would

be appreciated.

> > > > > > Hey Guys,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's

> > > something

> > > > > > seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The

> results

> > > here

> > > > > > were completely different then my last test, but I don't

> feel

> > > any

> > > > > > better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still have

> > > similar

> > > > > > sexual dysfunctions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My

> previous

> > > > Test

> > > > > > was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to

get

> to

> > > the

> > > > > > testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it,

> could

> > > that

> > > > > > have an effect as well.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My Current Test:

> > > > > > ---------------------------

> > > > > > TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

> > > > > > LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

> > > > > > Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

> > > > > > SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > > > > Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

> > > > > > Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

> > > > > > Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20 nmol/L

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My Previous Test Results:

> > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > > Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

> > > > > > LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

> > > > > > FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

> > > > > > Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

> > > > > > SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > > > > Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

> > > > > > Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same

> > > symptoms

> > > > > yet

> > > > > > my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then from

> the

> > > > last

> > > > > > time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There

are

> no

> > > > > places

> > > > > > to test DHT here in Canada.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Has anyone else experienced such huge difference, between

> > their

> > > > > test

> > > > > > results without improvement in their symptoms.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment, I

> need.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks!

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:01:29 -0000, you wrote:

>

>What's really strange is your LH went down but your T went up. LH is

>what the pituitary uses too call for more testosterone so it being

>lower should reduce T not raise it

Not so strange. It's a feedback system. More T means less LH is

produced. When T is low LH kicks in to " order " more T production and

then drops when it is produced.

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:06:55 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi Tallen,

>

>I am not on TRT, Im one of the people who are suffering from Propecia

>Side Effects.

>

>My endo doesn't believe measuring estradiol, Im seeing an MD who's

>also a naturopath tomorrow, I'll ask him to write me up some new

>blood work.

>

>My Symptoms:

>Lack of Emotions

>No Ejaculate

>(Only happens during Wet dreams, and that happens about once a month)

>No Sex Drive

>Errections aren't as strong as before

>

>I just have no idea what to do right now.

My opinion:

As high as your T levels are you almost certainly have high conversion

to E2 (estradiol). Insist your doctor test for it. offer to pay for

the Test if you have to.

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:40:32 -0000, you wrote:

>

>I am really confused right now, I really don't know what's going on

>with me. My LH levels before was on a different range, so LH I think

>seems to have remained the same, but how did T levels go up so much.

Your test results are using different methods and scales. There's no

room for real comparison absent some conversion factors. It's a mess.

You evidently had no total T taken the first time or maybe failed to

post it. The free T and bioavialble T are in different units between

tests. (I think possibly you transcribed some of the units wrong also.

Because some of the numbers look about right with the conversion

figures - but not with these measurement units.

The only things directly comparable between the two lists you post are

LH and SHBG which are not that variant.

This vermuelen method stuff also seems to be an estimated figure.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/84/10/3666

See also

http://www.arclab.org/medlineupdates/abstract_11979385.html

Which ends with:

" There is a need for increased awareness that marked week-to-week

variability within a single individual can occur for measurements of

both T and BT. "

And

http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0004/ea0004p87.htm

Indicates these estimation methods can be variable compared to actual

lab measurement.

(The whole thing feels like a school test to me.)

[Guest guest]

Im seeing a naturopath which is also a MD later today. The hormones I

want to get tested again are

LH, FSH, Total T, Bio T, Free T, Estradiol, Total Estrogen

I'll also request for him to send some blood work to Quest

Diagnostics to get my DHT tested.

Are there any other hormones, Im missing?

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Im just terrified right now. I just

don't know how Im going to deal with this.

Thanks!

> >What's really strange is your LH went down but your T went up. LH

is

> >what the pituitary uses too call for more testosterone so it being

> >lower should reduce T not raise it

>

> Not so strange. It's a feedback system. More T means less LH is

> produced. When T is low LH kicks in to " order " more T production and

> then drops when it is produced.

[Guest guest]

Hi Retrogrouch,

Thanks for responses.

I didn't have total T taken the first time, the doc said Free T is

what's important and wouldn't take total T. I did copy my readings

correctly, but I did make one mistake LH measured units for my new

profile should of been IU/L.

I'll have to read thru the links you posted, but got to run off to

the doctors right now.

Thank you for your help.

>

> >

> >I am really confused right now, I really don't know what's going

on

> >with me. My LH levels before was on a different range, so LH I

think

> >seems to have remained the same, but how did T levels go up so

much.

>

>

> Your test results are using different methods and scales. There's no

> room for real comparison absent some conversion factors. It's a

mess.

> You evidently had no total T taken the first time or maybe failed to

> post it. The free T and bioavialble T are in different units between

> tests. (I think possibly you transcribed some of the units wrong

also.

> Because some of the numbers look about right with the conversion

> figures - but not with these measurement units.

>

> The only things directly comparable between the two lists you post

are

> LH and SHBG which are not that variant.

>

> This vermuelen method stuff also seems to be an estimated figure.

> http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/84/10/3666

>

> See also

> http://www.arclab.org/medlineupdates/abstract_11979385.html

> Which ends with:

> " There is a need for increased awareness that marked week-to-week

> variability within a single individual can occur for measurements of

> both T and BT. "

>

> And

> http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0004/ea0004p87.htm

> Indicates these estimation methods can be variable compared to

actual

> lab measurement.

>

>

> (The whole thing feels like a school test to me.)

[Guest guest]

Re: DHT... I tested DHT at MDS Labs here in Toronto. My readings were sky

high... not sure what this means

except it might explain my testicular pain referred from prostate. My Uro

says I have Prostatitis but I think it might be BPH due to the high DHT. I

am doing Saw Palmetto to reduce DHT.. they say it works better that the

drugs & no side effects.

The only other questionable item was my LH was at bottom of the ref range 2

(range 2-6). Also my Free T to T ratio is way down... ie .3% of Total T.

(normal is 2% they say ?)

Hormones Improved without Symptoms Improving

Hey Guys,

I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's something

seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The results here

were completely different then my last test, but I don't feel any

better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still have similar

sexual dysfunctions.

The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My previous Test

was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to get to the

testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it, could that

have an effect as well.

My Current Test:

---------------------------

TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20 nmol/L

My Previous Test Results:

-----------------------------

Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same symptoms yet

my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then from the last

time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There are no places

to test DHT here in Canada.

Has anyone else experienced such huge difference, between their test

results without improvement in their symptoms.

Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment, I need.

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

I agree that balanced hormones can lead to a feeling of well being,

but there are other things that people attempt to cure with TRT, i.e.

clinical depression, hyperthyroidism, etc. etc. I have seen folks on

this group who have experienced remarkable turn-arounds on TRT,

however, there are folks, myself included, who haven't had what I

would call a great recovery. My T has gone from 340 to 800 on 10g of

AG. My E2 is low/normal taking 1/2 arimidex every other day, but I

do not feel " super " . I think one aspect is that TRT gave me insomnia

(or exacerbated an existing condition), so this is counteracting the

TRT.

I think there is a tendency, because I went through it myself, to

think that TRT will be the silver bullet that will kill all of my

problems. Going into TRT with this expectation, has led me to be

somewhat disappointed with the outcome. Granted I am not going to

quit turn around and go cold turkey. I just don't want to give

anyone false hope. It definately has worked wonders for folks, but

there are those of use who are still tinkering with the system and

have yet to turn the corner.

> > > Hey Guys,

> > >

> > > I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's

something

> > > seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The results

> here

> > > were completely different then my last test, but I don't feel

> any

> > > better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still have

similar

> > > sexual dysfunctions.

> > >

> > > The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My previous

> Test

> > > was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to get to

> the

> > > testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it, could

> that

> > > have an effect as well.

> > >

> > > My Current Test:

> > > ---------------------------

> > > TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

> > > LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

> > > Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

> > > SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

> > > Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

> > > Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20 nmol/L

> > >

> > > My Previous Test Results:

> > > -----------------------------

> > > Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

> > > LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

> > > FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

> > > Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

> > > SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

> > > Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

> > >

> > > I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same

symptoms

> > yet

> > > my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then from the

> last

> > > time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There are no

> > places

> > > to test DHT here in Canada.

> > >

> > > Has anyone else experienced such huge difference, between their

> > test

> > > results without improvement in their symptoms.

> > >

> > > Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment, I need.

> > >

> > > Thanks!

[Guest guest]

A while back someone on here stated that his doctor recommended going

on HGH therapy for a while to see if it can cure the Propecia

problems.

So, you are not on any form of TRT right now?

LH is the signal that tells the testes to produce T. As Armyguy

said, it really is only a guage. If it is too high, your body is

trying to get your testes to produce T be sending them the signal.

If you have low T and high LH, then you are primary, meaning your

testes are not functioning correctly. If you have low T and low T,

you have a pituitary issue, as your body is not sending the signal to

your testes to have them produce.

You can have relatively low LH and high T, as you testes

are " receiving " the signal to produce and are, in fact, producing.

Why do you doubt its depression? Are there any major stressors in

your life right now? Relationship problems? Job Problems? A lot

these things could knock the body out of balance.

Are you in shape physically? Work out? Cardio? Weights?

Remember, treat this like being a detective or an investor, due you

due diligence and investigate clues to see what is causing your

problems.

> > > > > > > Hey Guys,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I just got back my latest Hormone profile, and there's

> > > > something

> > > > > > > seriously wrong. My T levels are extremely high. The

> > results

> > > > here

> > > > > > > were completely different then my last test, but I

don't

> > feel

> > > > any

> > > > > > > better and I haven't been on any treatment. I still

have

> > > > similar

> > > > > > > sexual dysfunctions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The only difference: I took this test at 9:30 AM. My

> > previous

> > > > > Test

> > > > > > > was done around 11 AM. I had to walk about 6 Blocks to

> get

> > to

> > > > the

> > > > > > > testing facility, the last time I just drove up to it,

> > could

> > > > that

> > > > > > > have an effect as well.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My Current Test:

> > > > > > > ---------------------------

> > > > > > > TSH: 0.9 range 0.38-5.5 mU/L

> > > > > > > LH: 3.1 range <10.0 nmol/L

> > > > > > > Testosterone: 25.8 range 10.0-30.0 nmol/L

> > > > > > > SHBG: 20 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > > > > > Albumin: 46 range 35-50 g/L

> > > > > > > Free T (Method Vermeulen): 778 range 200-800 pmol/L

> > > > > > > Bioavailable T (Method Vermeulen): 19.5 range 5-20

nmol/L

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My Previous Test Results:

> > > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > > > Free Testosterone 40.6 range 24-95 pmol/L

> > > > > > > LH 4.5 range 2.0 - 12 IU/L

> > > > > > > FSH 2.1 range 1.0 - 8.0 IU/L

> > > > > > > Prolactin 9.3 range 2.0-16.0 ug/L

> > > > > > > SHBG 14 range 10-70 nmol/L

> > > > > > > Estradiol 131 range <220 pmol/L

> > > > > > > Ferritin 179 range 30-300 ug/L

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I know Im still not right, I still suffer from the same

> > > > symptoms

> > > > > > yet

> > > > > > > my Hormone Profile is significantly differently then

from

> > the

> > > > > last

> > > > > > > time I had it measured. Do I have messed up DHT? There

> are

> > no

> > > > > > places

> > > > > > > to test DHT here in Canada.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Has anyone else experienced such huge difference,

between

> > > their

> > > > > > test

> > > > > > > results without improvement in their symptoms.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now my main concern is that I won't get the treatment,

I

> > need.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Be very careful with this, as it may come back to bite you, remember

the doctor is sending his request to the lab that is covered by your

insurance plan. If you add to this request, you are misleading your

doctor and your insurance plan. The first may be ethically

questionable and the last may be insurance fraud.

I don't want to be too heavy handed as I have almost done the same

thing through frustration. I just wanted to give you the head's up.

I think your best bet is to find a doctor who you can trust and who

will work with you.

> Ask to go to a lab to have your test done, T is lower in the

morning

> so say you want to do it at 7am before the Dr's office opens.

He'll

> give you a sheet to take to the lab and you can just check other

> tests that you want done. So just add Estrodial. I've added stuff

> many time to my tests this way with no problems

> >

> > >Hi Tallen,

> > >

> > >I am not on TRT, Im one of the people who are suffering from

> Propecia

> > >Side Effects.

> > >

> > >My endo doesn't believe measuring estradiol, Im seeing an MD

who's

> > >also a naturopath tomorrow, I'll ask him to write me up some new

> > >blood work.

> > >

> > >My Symptoms:

> > >Lack of Emotions

> > >No Ejaculate

> > >(Only happens during Wet dreams, and that happens about once a

> month)

> > >No Sex Drive

> > >Errections aren't as strong as before

> > >

> > >I just have no idea what to do right now.

> >

> > My opinion:

> > As high as your T levels are you almost certainly have high

> conversion

> > to E2 (estradiol). Insist your doctor test for it. offer to pay

for

> > the Test if you have to.

[Guest guest]

I found a doctor almost immediately who is taking great care of me.

There are a few very good doctors who are on the internet who are not

scam artists. I would be more than happy to post his web page.

I definately agree that the doctor is misleading his patient, but I

do not think that renegade treatment is the way to go. Even if you

check E2, what are the odds he is going to treat it? Then you will

have to go find another doctor.

I recently spoke with a doctor about adding a test to his labs, he

told me that he would not have that person as a patient and it may

lead to the insurance company questioning, not only the patient, but

the doctor.

I agree with paying for the test if you can't get your doctor to pay

for it. It is certainly less risky that forging the lab request.

To each his own, I was certainly tempted to do it.

> > > Ask to go to a lab to have your test done, T is lower in the

> > morning

> > > so say you want to do it at 7am before the Dr's office opens.

> > He'll

> > > give you a sheet to take to the lab and you can just check

other

> > > tests that you want done. So just add Estrodial. I've added

> stuff

> > > many time to my tests this way with no problems

> > > >

> > > > >Hi Tallen,

> > > > >

> > > > >I am not on TRT, Im one of the people who are suffering from

> > > Propecia

> > > > >Side Effects.

> > > > >

> > > > >My endo doesn't believe measuring estradiol, Im seeing an MD

> > who's

> > > > >also a naturopath tomorrow, I'll ask him to write me up some

> new

> > > > >blood work.

> > > > >

> > > > >My Symptoms:

> > > > >Lack of Emotions

> > > > >No Ejaculate

> > > > >(Only happens during Wet dreams, and that happens about once

a

> > > month)

> > > > >No Sex Drive

> > > > >Errections aren't as strong as before

> > > > >

> > > > >I just have no idea what to do right now.

> > > >

> > > > My opinion:

> > > > As high as your T levels are you almost certainly have high

> > > conversion

> > > > to E2 (estradiol). Insist your doctor test for it. offer to

> pay

> > for

> > > > the Test if you have to.

[Guest guest]

I would certainly like to find a doc on the web that isn't a scam

artist. I live in Oregon and so far all I'm hearing from is docs

that only want to push the " standard " treatment. My new endo doc has

taken me off all TRT until at least next week maybe longer. This has

just about crippled me. What little energy I had gained is virtually

gone. My mental acuity is so severly reduced that my work is at a

standstill.

This doc doesn't know what to " do " with estrogen in men and I'm

getting frustrated with this kind of attitude. Is there anyway you

can reply to me directly with the information? I would like to start

investigating other options. I'm self-employed and self-insured so

since it's coming out of my ever-decreasing wallet I don't mind

paying for it.

Thanks!

> > > > Ask to go to a lab to have your test done, T is lower in the

> > > morning

> > > > so say you want to do it at 7am before the Dr's office

opens.

> > > He'll

> > > > give you a sheet to take to the lab and you can just check

> other

> > > > tests that you want done. So just add Estrodial. I've added

> > stuff

> > > > many time to my tests this way with no problems

> > > > >

> > > > > >Hi Tallen,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >I am not on TRT, Im one of the people who are suffering

from

> > > > Propecia

> > > > > >Side Effects.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >My endo doesn't believe measuring estradiol, Im seeing an

MD

> > > who's

> > > > > >also a naturopath tomorrow, I'll ask him to write me up

some

> > new

> > > > > >blood work.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >My Symptoms:

> > > > > >Lack of Emotions

> > > > > >No Ejaculate

> > > > > >(Only happens during Wet dreams, and that happens about

once

> a

> > > > month)

> > > > > >No Sex Drive

> > > > > >Errections aren't as strong as before

> > > > > >

> > > > > >I just have no idea what to do right now.

> > > > >

> > > > > My opinion:

> > > > > As high as your T levels are you almost certainly have high

> > > > conversion

> > > > > to E2 (estradiol). Insist your doctor test for it. offer

to

> > pay

> > > for

> > > > > the Test if you have to.

[Guest guest]

Here in Canada I did the same thing a few weeks ago. The Dr. didn't even

think the Lab would do some tests.

I called the Lab, MDS, & they said they did. Since it is covered by our

Ontario Health Plan here, nobody

seemed to care if I added the tests myself. I just explained to the girl at

the Lab & she added them.

The Doc was fine with that.

Re: Hormones Improved without Symptoms Improving

Be very careful with this, as it may come back to bite you, remember

the doctor is sending his request to the lab that is covered by your

insurance plan. If you add to this request, you are misleading your

doctor and your insurance plan. The first may be ethically

questionable and the last may be insurance fraud.

I don't want to be too heavy handed as I have almost done the same

thing through frustration. I just wanted to give you the head's up.

I think your best bet is to find a doctor who you can trust and who

will work with you.

> Ask to go to a lab to have your test done, T is lower in the

morning

> so say you want to do it at 7am before the Dr's office opens.

He'll

> give you a sheet to take to the lab and you can just check other

> tests that you want done. So just add Estrodial. I've added stuff

> many time to my tests this way with no problems

> >

> > >Hi Tallen,

> > >

> > >I am not on TRT, Im one of the people who are suffering from

> Propecia

> > >Side Effects.

> > >

> > >My endo doesn't believe measuring estradiol, Im seeing an MD

who's

> > >also a naturopath tomorrow, I'll ask him to write me up some new

> > >blood work.

> > >

> > >My Symptoms:

> > >Lack of Emotions

> > >No Ejaculate

> > >(Only happens during Wet dreams, and that happens about once a

> month)

> > >No Sex Drive

> > >Errections aren't as strong as before

> > >

> > >I just have no idea what to do right now.

> >

> > My opinion:

> > As high as your T levels are you almost certainly have high

> conversion

> > to E2 (estradiol). Insist your doctor test for it. offer to pay

for

> > the Test if you have to.

[Guest guest]

Could you please send me the Web Page of the Dr. you mentioned?

Re: Hormones Improved without Symptoms Improving

I found a doctor almost immediately who is taking great care of me.

There are a few very good doctors who are on the internet who are not

scam artists. I would be more than happy to post his web page.

I definately agree that the doctor is misleading his patient, but I

do not think that renegade treatment is the way to go. Even if you

check E2, what are the odds he is going to treat it? Then you will

have to go find another doctor.

I recently spoke with a doctor about adding a test to his labs, he

told me that he would not have that person as a patient and it may

lead to the insurance company questioning, not only the patient, but

the doctor.

I agree with paying for the test if you can't get your doctor to pay

for it. It is certainly less risky that forging the lab request.

To each his own, I was certainly tempted to do it.

> > > Ask to go to a lab to have your test done, T is lower in the

> > morning

> > > so say you want to do it at 7am before the Dr's office opens.

> > He'll

> > > give you a sheet to take to the lab and you can just check

other

> > > tests that you want done. So just add Estrodial. I've added

> stuff

> > > many time to my tests this way with no problems

> > > >

> > > > >Hi Tallen,

> > > > >

> > > > >I am not on TRT, Im one of the people who are suffering from

> > > Propecia

> > > > >Side Effects.

> > > > >

> > > > >My endo doesn't believe measuring estradiol, Im seeing an MD

> > who's

> > > > >also a naturopath tomorrow, I'll ask him to write me up some

> new

> > > > >blood work.

> > > > >

> > > > >My Symptoms:

> > > > >Lack of Emotions

> > > > >No Ejaculate

> > > > >(Only happens during Wet dreams, and that happens about once

a

> > > month)

> > > > >No Sex Drive

> > > > >Errections aren't as strong as before

> > > > >

> > > > >I just have no idea what to do right now.

> > > >

> > > > My opinion:

> > > > As high as your T levels are you almost certainly have high

> > > conversion

> > > > to E2 (estradiol). Insist your doctor test for it. offer to

> pay

> > for

> > > > the Test if you have to.

[Guest guest]

I think this detailed article is a very good one. I am using it as a guide

sonce my Dr. doesn't know much about this area & my Endo is similar. They

give detailed info on how to interpret the tests. The usual disclaimer...

not a substitute for a Dr. (there I said it ! The problem is the

unknowledgable Dr.'s are not a substitute for knowledgable Dr.'s or good

articles either)

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-130.shtml

Re: Hormones Improved without Symptoms Improving

I would certainly like to find a doc on the web that isn't a scam

artist. I live in Oregon and so far all I'm hearing from is docs

that only want to push the " standard " treatment. My new endo doc has

taken me off all TRT until at least next week maybe longer. This has

just about crippled me. What little energy I had gained is virtually

gone. My mental acuity is so severly reduced that my work is at a

standstill.

This doc doesn't know what to " do " with estrogen in men and I'm

getting frustrated with this kind of attitude. Is there anyway you

can reply to me directly with the information? I would like to start

investigating other options. I'm self-employed and self-insured so

since it's coming out of my ever-decreasing wallet I don't mind

paying for it.

Thanks!

> > > > Ask to go to a lab to have your test done, T is lower in the

> > > morning

> > > > so say you want to do it at 7am before the Dr's office

opens.

> > > He'll

> > > > give you a sheet to take to the lab and you can just check

> other

> > > > tests that you want done. So just add Estrodial. I've added

> > stuff

> > > > many time to my tests this way with no problems

> > > > >

> > > > > >Hi Tallen,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >I am not on TRT, Im one of the people who are suffering

from

> > > > Propecia

> > > > > >Side Effects.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >My endo doesn't believe measuring estradiol, Im seeing an

MD

> > > who's

> > > > > >also a naturopath tomorrow, I'll ask him to write me up

some

> > new

> > > > > >blood work.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >My Symptoms:

> > > > > >Lack of Emotions

> > > > > >No Ejaculate

> > > > > >(Only happens during Wet dreams, and that happens about

once

> a

> > > > month)

> > > > > >No Sex Drive

> > > > > >Errections aren't as strong as before

> > > > > >

> > > > > >I just have no idea what to do right now.

> > > > >

> > > > > My opinion:

> > > > > As high as your T levels are you almost certainly have high

> > > > conversion

> > > > > to E2 (estradiol). Insist your doctor test for it. offer

to

> > pay

> > > for

> > > > > the Test if you have to.

[Guest guest]

Hi-

tallen2_34 <no_reply@y...> wrote: " Even if you check E2, what

are the odds he is going to treat it? Then you will have to go find

another doctor. "

If E2 tests come back showing need for treatment, and the

doctor doesn't treat it, then he jolly well SHOULD find another

doctor.

IMO, doctors who don't get results when they should might as

well BE scam artists. It's like paying less money for someone to

paint your house, but you pay it and your house doesn't get

painted. If staying within insurance rules prevents proper

treatment, insurers are both accomplices and willing victims.

Where are the insurance cost savings if insurers pay lower costs

per visit for endless visits without effective treatment?

Ranting some today,

Bruce

> > > > Ask to go to a lab to have your test done, T is lower in the

> > > morning

> > > > so say you want to do it at 7am before the Dr's office

opens.

> > > He'll

> > > > give you a sheet to take to the lab and you can just check

> other

> > > > tests that you want done. So just add Estrodial. I've

added

> > stuff

> > > > many time to my tests this way with no problems

> > > > >

> > > > > >Hi Tallen,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >I am not on TRT, Im one of the people who are

suffering from

> > > > Propecia

> > > > > >Side Effects.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >My endo doesn't believe measuring estradiol, Im

seeing an MD

> > > who's

> > > > > >also a naturopath tomorrow, I'll ask him to write me up

some

> > new

> > > > > >blood work.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >My Symptoms:

> > > > > >Lack of Emotions

> > > > > >No Ejaculate

> > > > > >(Only happens during Wet dreams, and that happens

about once

> a

> > > > month)

> > > > > >No Sex Drive

> > > > > >Errections aren't as strong as before

> > > > > >

> > > > > >I just have no idea what to do right now.

> > > > >

> > > > > My opinion:

> > > > > As high as your T levels are you almost certainly have

high

> > > > conversion

> > > > > to E2 (estradiol). Insist your doctor test for it. offer to

> > pay

> > > for

> > > > > the Test if you have to.

[Guest guest]

I thought T was higher in the morning - i thought that's why they

wanted to test it then. Is that incorrect? If so, my last T levels

were really low - 117 at 2pm.

Mark

> Ask to go to a lab to have your test done, T is lower in the

morning

> so say you want to do it at 7am before the Dr's office opens.