Re: Cytomel, IGF-1?

[Guest guest]

Patty--

The anti-TPO antibodies are antibodies to thyroid peroxidase. This is what

you need to convert T4 to T3 and, according to our present medical knowledge,

the antibodies are attacking it. That's why he wants to give you the Cytomel--it's

just T3. Cytomel is synthetic, just so you know. Biothroid is natural. I tried the

Cytomel, as I have a problem converting to T3 also (have to take that test!) and it

isn't for me--most different thyroid hormones you just have to take and see--different

ones work for different people. T3 is the hormone, we think, that gives you your energy.

My doc referred me to that book also as my GH is below normal. It's good. I'm just not quite ready to try the hGH--it's too new for me. I've heard pros and cons. My doc did explain that by doing all these hormones we are pushing the envelope--we really don't know what the outcome will be--as far as we know we are programmed to turn to dust by a certain time and whether we prolong that or not is yet to be seen. I translate this to mean that it's a giant experiment. Thank you--think I've had enough

experimenting for a lifetime.

BUT he did say that injectable is the only good way to get hGH, and that he is participating in a study whereby it would cost me only $175 every three months. Normally , this is anywhere from $15,000 to $30,000 per year.

Anyway, I'm taking things to stimulate my own hGH and I think I might have read

about this in Klatz's book. . .L-arginine and L-ornithine, Glycine, and L-glutamic acid.

The book is usually available at the healthfood store.

Bonnie

[Guest guest]

Patty, I know you didn't ask for my opinion on this drug, but I'm going to give it to you anyway. When I was working as Clinical IV Coordinator at UMC, we had lots of kids and an increasing number of adults being put on this med. Prior to getting this job, I didn't have much knowledge about the drug, but because it was one of our "moneymakers," and a large part of our pt population was on it, I made it my business to know about the drug and its side effects. First of all, my staff had several things to say about HGH. They did not see results in either kids or adults, even after prolonged use. And there are doctors out there who question the safety and efficacy of the drug. My staff was under the impression that HGH ends up doing more harm than good in the long run. I do know that I have heard about studies being done and have been done, related to adverse effects in adults. I haven't really paid much attention to them because I saw them after I quit my job, so I wasn't too interested in them. Another issue to consider is that the drug can induce hypothyroidism, as well as diabetes and hypopituitarism. These are not "rare" side effects--they are actually common. The adults I have seen who are on the drug have moderate to severe edema (swelling) in their extremities. They also complained of headaches and muscle pain. And pts of all ages seem to develop antibodies to HGH. Another thing to consider, (and maybe this isn't a consideration for you), is the cost. One dose runs about $6000-8000, and most insurances won't cover it. Eli Lilly has a compassionate program, where if your doc submits the required info, they will provide the drug free of charge. But I have not seen them do this with adult pts, only kids. I would be leery of taking this drug. I agree with my staff that in the long run, it will do more harm than good. I think it has the potential to ruin bones (avascular necrosis) and cause worse health problems. But only you can make the decision. e ----- Original Message ----- From: ~*Patty*~ Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 1:50 PM Subject: Cytomel, IGF-1? Hi, I got more blood test results back from my homeopathic doctor today, and wanted to share the results, as well as ask a few questions. Dr. Kolb, I especially want your opinion on the IGF-1, if you don't mind. First of all, the lab results show that there is some autoimmune reaction to my thyroid, with the ANTI-TPO Antibody results at 7.9, where the normal range is 0.0 to 2.0. (I guess this is the anti-thyroid antibody test.) He has suggested that I don't take Armour thyroid, but rather, take Biothroid, 1 grain, 2-3 times a day. He also suggests taking Cytomel to increase T3 and help lower antibodies. I looked quickly at some internet info on this Cytomel, and I guess I will give it a go. I have yet to check out the Biothroid--never heard of it before. This next one scares me a little. He also suggests that I consider taking Human Growth Hormone, or IGF-1, and it looks like it would be a sub Q injection daily for 6 months. He says I have "low normal" levels, but it is "abnormally low" for anti-aging purposes. I am leary of this hormone. Cohen talks about IGF-1 on his notmilk website, and how it contributes greatly to cancer. My doc suggested that I read the book, Grow Young With HGH by Klatz, MD, but I would like to hear from anyone else who has had this test, or Dr. Kolb, if you do this and if you recommend this hormone at all in your clinic. Thanks! Patty

[Guest guest]

Patty: There is some evidence that HGH given to children with HGH deficencies have had an increased risk of colon and other cancers over time. My intuitive sense is not to take HGH directly but maybe consider something like arginine a 3 gms per day which can naturally increase HGH levels. .

-----Original Message-----From: ~*Patty*~ [mailto:fdp@...]Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 3:30 PM Subject: Cytomel, IGF-1?

Hi,

I got more blood test results back from my homeopathic doctor today, and wanted to share the results, as well as ask a few questions. Dr. Kolb, I especially want your opinion on the IGF-1, if you don't mind.

First of all, the lab results show that there is some autoimmune reaction to my thyroid, with the ANTI-TPO Antibody results at 7.9, where the normal range is 0.0 to 2.0. (I guess this is the anti-thyroid antibody test.) He has suggested that I don't take Armour thyroid, but rather, take Biothroid, 1 grain, 2-3 times a day. He also suggests taking Cytomel to increase T3 and help lower antibodies. I looked quickly at some internet info on this Cytomel, and I guess I will give it a go. I have yet to check out the Biothroid--never heard of it before.

This next one scares me a little. He also suggests that I consider taking Human Growth Hormone,

or IGF-1, and it looks like it would be a sub Q injection daily for 6 months. He says I have "low normal" levels, but it is "abnormally low" for anti-aging purposes. I am leary of this hormone. Cohen talks about IGF-1 on his notmilk website, and how it contributes greatly to cancer. My doc suggested that I read the book, Grow Young With HGH by Klatz, MD, but I would like to hear from anyone else who has had this test, or Dr. Kolb, if you do this and if you recommend this hormone at all in your clinic.

Thanks!

Patty

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bonnie,

I agree, I am not in any mood for any more experimentation with risky substances such as this. I've tried other hormone stuff before, such as progesterone cream and pregnenolone, and I have never noticed any real benefit, but always a change in my menstrual cycle. I think I'll just leave well enough alone. Hormones are not wise things to play around with.

However, in view of the fact that I have this thyroid condition, I will be trying the Cytomel and see what happens with it. I will also be seeing another endocrinology specialist instead of the homeopathic doctor.

Patty

----- Original Message -----

From: Bos@...

Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 6:24 PM

Subject: Re: Cytomel, IGF-1?

Patty-- The anti-TPO antibodies are antibodies to thyroid peroxidase. This is what you need to convert T4 to T3 and, according to our present medical knowledge, the antibodies are attacking it. That's why he wants to give you the Cytomel--it's just T3. Cytomel is synthetic, just so you know. Biothroid is natural. I tried the Cytomel, as I have a problem converting to T3 also (have to take that test!) and it isn't for me--most different thyroid hormones you just have to take and see--different ones work for different people. T3 is the hormone, we think, that gives you your energy. My doc referred me to that book also as my GH is below normal. It's good. I'm just not quite ready to try the hGH--it's too new for me. I've heard pros and cons. My doc did explain that by doing all these hormones we are pushing the envelope--we really don't know what the outcome will be--as far as we know we are programmed to turn to dust by a certain time and whether we prolong that or not is yet to be seen. I translate this to mean that it's a giant experiment. Thank you--think I've had enough experimenting for a lifetime. BUT he did say that injectable is the only good way to get hGH, and that he is participating in a study whereby it would cost me only $175 every three months. Normally , this is anywhere from $15,000 to $30,000 per year. Anyway, I'm taking things to stimulate my own hGH and I think I might have read about this in Klatz's book. . .L-arginine and L-ornithine, Glycine, and L-glutamic acid. The book is usually available at the healthfood store. Bonnie

[Guest guest]

Thanks e, I appreciate your input, and your confirmation of my fears about this stuff.

Patty

----- Original Message -----

From: e Rene

Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 6:48 PM

Subject: Re: Cytomel, IGF-1?

Patty,

I know you didn't ask for my opinion on this drug, but I'm going to give it to you anyway. When I was working as Clinical IV Coordinator at UMC, we had lots of kids and an increasing number of adults being put on this med. Prior to getting this job, I didn't have much knowledge about the drug, but because it was one of our "moneymakers," and a large part of our pt population was on it, I made it my business to know about the drug and its side effects.

First of all, my staff had several things to say about HGH. They did not see results in either kids or adults, even after prolonged use. And there are doctors out there who question the safety and efficacy of the drug. My staff was under the impression that HGH ends up doing more harm than good in the long run.

I do know that I have heard about studies being done and have been done, relate d to adverse effects in adults. I haven't really paid much attention to them because I saw them after I quit my job, so I wasn't too interested in them.

Another issue to consider is that the drug can induce hypothyroidism, as well as diabetes and hypopituitarism. These are not "rare" side effects--they are actually common. The adults I have seen who are on the drug have moderate to severe edema (swelling) in their extremities. They also complained of headaches and muscle pain. And pts of all ages seem to develop antibodies to HGH.

Another thing to consider, (and maybe this isn't a consideration for you), is the cost. One dose runs about $6000-8000, and most insurances won't cover it. Eli Lilly has a compassionate program, where if your doc submits the required info, they will provide the drug free of charge. But I have not seen them do this with adult pts, on ly kids.

I would be leery of taking this drug. I agree with my staff that in the long run, it will do more harm than good. I think it has the potential to ruin bones (avascular necrosis) and cause worse health problems. But only you can make the decision.

e

[Guest guest]

Don't know Patty's docs credentials, but the tests are the same as done

by conventional physicians. It was a conventional physician who found

my low hGH, but offered nothing--I had to go looking for solutions. My conventional endocrinologist, who is touted to be "the guy" in this city, misdiagnosed my thyroid condition , (he tested, but just doesn't read well apparently) and cost me a thyroid gland, cancer, 7 eye surgeries and resulting eye problems which I can't repair, as there isn't an insurance company that will touch me now. That surgery will probably fall in his lap (smile)

The doc I have now is an MD, but he practices complementary or integrative

medicine--it's the way of the future--many have gone to this; not only do they

repair (not just treat) but are very oriented toward prevention. I still don't take

what he says as gospel--I don't give him complete responsibility for my health, but

I like that he offers new solutions, with "informed consent"

The general public is unaware of what "norms" mean--they are unaware of

the rate of lab error or the margin or error allowed in results; and that where a lab test is done can affect it's results in terms of "norms"; and unaware of a physician's particular attitude toward regular lab results and "crucial" values--in fact, they probably don't know there is a difference. There are actually some tests that are more specific if done on urine than blood--but it takes longer. . .the public doesn't know this either. Urine specimens used to be a routine part of a medical

consultation.

Naturopathy was around long before conventional medicine and is still

practiced heavily in much healthier populations than the US. I was about

4 when conventional medicine started taking off due to the advent of antibiotics

and vaccines. . and it wasn't trusted by a lot of people--it has done some incredible marketing over the last 50 years. Unfortuantely, it appears medicine just skipped

past learning about "bacteria" as they had an antidote for infections. Now look

where we are. Well, look where we are on HRT--something some haven't had reason to consider yet and maybe haven't paid attention to.

I believe conventional medical practice will always have it's place re emergencies--it shines. But the whole field is changing, rapidly.

Remember, it was conventional medicine that gave us implants, and it is

conventional medicine that for the most part has turned it's backs on the

problems that resulted from them. I've never heard of a complementary doc

or naturopath who has done this. In fact, many of the articles I have read

that understand our plight or illnesses were written by these very people.

www.lef.org has a doctor list, by state, of various physicians who practice

differently from standard conventional ways. It's a start in one's search.

The healthfood stores usually know who they are also.

Bonnie

[Guest guest]

HMMMMM M aybe this is why I stay away from holistic healers hee hee, ok bad joke but geeze I just go get labs done by regular people(dr's) and so far to my luck they never find anything wrong, I still think that some of these nature docs are questionable and not sure I trust them, sorry but that is my opinion, I mean they are competing in a world where there are real Dr's everywhere so only the probably most desperate cases go to them, or the as my husband calls them, granola eaters, hee hee. Anyhow Patty I don't even know what these tests are, don't think I would take this stuff either, sounds dangerous. Have you had your normal labs done like your ana and you RF etc, these I would think would tell you more than this stuff, but what the heck do I know, I am making no claims here to be an expert, mostly it is just my own feeling here.

hugs

----- Original Message -----

From: ~*Patty*~

Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 1:30 PM

Subject: Cytomel, IGF-1?

Hi,

I got more blood test results back from my homeopathic doctor today, and wanted to share the results, as well as ask a few questions. Dr. Kolb, I especially want your opinion on the IGF-1, if you don't mind.

First of all, the lab results show that there is some autoimmune reaction to my thyroid, with the ANTI-TPO Antibody results at 7.9, where the normal range is 0.0 to 2.0. (I guess this is the anti-thyroid antibody test.) He has suggested that I don't take Armour thyroid, but rather, take Biothroid, 1 grain, 2-3 times a day. He also suggests taking Cytomel to increase T3 and help lower antibodies. I looked quickly at some internet info on this Cytomel, and I guess I will give it a go. I have yet to check out the Biothroid--never heard of it before.

This next one scares me a little. He also suggests that I consider taking Human Growth Hormone,

or IGF-1, and it looks like it would be a sub Q injection daily for 6 months. He says I have "low normal" levels, but it is "abnormally low" for anti-aging purposes. I am leary of this hormone. Cohen talks about IGF-1 on his notmilk website, and how it contributes greatly to cancer. My doc suggested that I read the book, Grow Young With HGH by Klatz, MD, but I would like to hear from anyone else who has had this test, or Dr. Kolb, if you do this and if you recommend this hormone at all in your clinic.

Thanks!

Patty

[Guest guest]

I agree that you need to see a specialist!

----- Original Message -----

From: ~*Patty*~

Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 10:09 PM

Subject: Re: Cytomel, IGF-1?

Thanks Bonnie,

I agree, I am not in any mood for any more experimentation with risky substances such as this. I've tried other hormone stuff before, such as progesterone cream and pregnenolone, and I have never noticed any real benefit, but always a change in my menstrual cycle. I think I'll just leave well enough alone. Hormones are not wise things to play around with.

However, in view of the fact that I have this thyroid condition, I will be trying the Cytomel and see what happens with it. I will also be seeing another endocrinology specialist instead of the homeopathic doctor.

Patty

----- Original Message -----

From: Bos@...

Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 6:24 PM

Subject: Re: Cytomel, IGF-1?

Patty-- The anti-TPO antibodies are antibodies to thyroid peroxidase. This is what you need to convert T4 to T3 and, according to our present medical knowledge, the antibodies are attacking it. That's why he wants to give you the Cytomel--it's just T3. Cytomel is synthetic, just so you know. Biothroid is natural. I tried the Cytomel, as I have a problem converting to T3 also (have to take that test!) and it isn't for me--most different thyroid hormones you just have to take and see--different ones work for different people. T3 is the hormone, we think, that gives you your energy. My doc referred me to that book also as my GH is below normal. It's good. I'm just not quite ready to try the hGH--it's too new for me. I've heard pros and cons. My doc did explain that by doing all these hormones we are pushing the envelope--we really don't know what the outcome will be--as far as we know we are programmed to turn to dust by a certain time and whether we prolong that or not is yet to be seen. I translate this to mean that it's a giant experiment. Thank you--think I've had enough experimenting for a lifetime. BUT he did say that injectable is the only good way to get hGH, and that he is participating in a study whereby it would cost me only $175 every three months. Normally , this is anywhere from $15,000 to $30,000 per year. Anyway, I'm taking things to stimulate my own hGH and I think I might have read about this in Klatz's book. . .L-arginine and L-ornithine, Glycine, and L-glutamic acid. The book is usually available at the healthfood store. Bonnie

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much . I will follow your advice and use the arginine instead!

Patty

----- Original Message -----

From: Dr. Kolb

Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 8:15 PM

Subject: RE: Cytomel, IGF-1?

Patty: There is some evidence that HGH given to children with HGH deficencies have had an increased risk of colon and other cancers over time. My intuitive sense is not to take HGH directly but maybe consider something like arginine a 3 gms per day which can naturally increase HGH levels. .

[Guest guest]

I totally agree Bonnie, as Dr. Mercola ran every test my doctor did, and every one they didn't. I get all copies of my results, and he explains everything to me. He actually reads them! Ha HA He is getting to the root of all my problems, and where I need to supplement, eat better, and where I need to detox. Then after being on his program, he reruns the tests after about three months, to prove how much better according to the labs, (not just how you feel) you have gotten. Seeing is believing. He also goes through Quest Diagnosis, a well known company. And ran other reputable tests, such as hair analsis, and Live Cell. After seeing over 7 doctors, who didn't care to help me get better, only wanted to treat my current symptoms, I got fed up. And found a doctor that will guide, help & assist me to heal as much as I can. You can't beat that. And anytime I got a question, I can email him, and he's always there, even on vacations or on his days off. Now, that's a change! I am actualy a whole person not just a sick patient in a file anymore.