Cholesterol

[Guest guest]

The book " Protein Power Lifeplan " by M.R. Eades and M.D. Eades has a

chapter on cholesterol. Some important points are:

1) Cholesterol is required for the production of cell membranes. The

liver produces 80% of the cholesterol in your body, and a maximum of

20% comes from food.

2) You don't need to worry about a higher cholesterol level if the

RATIO of your HDL (good cholesterol) to LDL (bad cholesterol) has

increased.

3) The lower your triglyceride-to-HDL ratio, the lower your risk for

heart disease.

4) There are two types of LDL particles: small dense, and large

fluffy. The dense type promotes atherosclerosis, whereas the fluffy

does not. Low-carbohydrate, moderate-fat diets produce the fluffy

LDL, whereas low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets produce the dense bad

LDL.

5) Niacin has been shown to lower cholesterol and reduce all-cause

mortality.

Best Wishes,

A. Zamora

[Guest guest]

>>2) You don't need to worry about a higher cholesterol level if the

RATIO of your HDL (good cholesterol) to LDL (bad cholesterol) has

increased.

Not true.

Around the world, the populations with the lowest rates of heart disease

actually have very low HDLs, usually in the 20s and what might be considered

poor ratios. The emphasis on high HDLs and ratios is actually misguided here

in the US. The reason is, that on a typical american diet, its almost

impossible to acheive optimal cholesterol levels. So, change the focus. Switch

to raising HDL, which is easier on the typical higher fat american diet, and

switch to focus on ratios.

There is a dramatic difference in the " efficiency " of HDL on a healthy low fat

diet, that there is on a typical high fat US diet. On a healthy low fat diet,

HDL transport (the ability of the HDL to remove cholesterol) does not change.

So, even though the amount of HDL was lower, these lower amounts removed as much

cholesterol as the higher amount of HDL on a higher fat diet.

J Clin Invest. 1990 Jan;85(1):144-51

A low-fat diet decreases high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol levels by

decreasing HDL apolipoprotein transport rates.

Brinton EA, Eisenberg S, Breslow JL.

Laboratory of Biochemical Genetics and Metabolism, Rockefeller University, New

York, New York 10021.

Diets that reduce atherosclerosis risk lower levels of HDL cholesterol (HDL-C),

but the significance of this is unclear. To better understand the mechanism of

this phenomenon we studied the turnover of HDL apolipoproteins A-I and A-II in

13 subjects on two contrasting metabolic diets. Upon changing from high to low

intake of saturated fat and cholesterol the mean HDL-C decreased 29% from 56 +/-

13 (SD) to 40 +/- 10 mg/dl, while apo A-I levels fell 23% from 139 +/- 22 to 107

+/- 22 mg/dl (both P less than 0.001). Mean apo A-II levels did not change. The

fractional catabolic rate (FCR) of apo A-I increased 11% from 0.228 +/- 0.048 to

0.254 +/- 0.063 pools/d, while its absolute transport rate (TR) decreased 14%

from 12.0 +/- 2.7 to 10.3 +/- 3.4 mg/kg per d (both P = 0.005). The decrease in

HDL-C and apo A-I levels correlated with the decrease in apo A-I TR (r = 0.79

and 0.83, respectively; P less than 0.001), but not with the increase in apo A-I

FCR (r = -0.04 and -0.02, respectively). In contrast, within each diet the HDL-C

and apo A-I levels were inversely correlated with apo A-I FCR both on the

high-fat (r = -0.85 and -0.77, P less than 0.001 and = 0.002, respectively) and

low-fat diets (r = -0.67 and -0.48, P = 0.012 and 0.098, respectively) but not

with apo A-I TR. In summary, diet-induced changes in HDL-C levels correlate with

and may result from changes in apo A-I TR. In contrast, differences in HDL-C

levels between people on a given diet correlate with and may result from

differences in apo A-I FCR. Therefore, the mechanism of dietary effects on HDL

levels differs substantially from the mechanism explaining the differences in

levels between individuals on a fixed diet. In assessing coronary heart disease

risk, it may be inappropriate to conclude that diet-induced decreases in HDL are

equivalent to low HDL within a given diet.

>>>4) There are two types of LDL particles: small dense, and large

fluffy. The dense type promotes atherosclerosis, whereas the fluffy

does not. Low-carbohydrate, moderate-fat diets produce the fluffy

LDL, whereas low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets produce the dense bad

LDL.

The low fat high carb diets tested in both the recent studies were not

indicative of a healthy low fat diet. These diets had fat levels of around 30%,

were very low in fiber and consisted of mostly refined carbs. In other word,

very similar to a typical US diet. There is quite a bit of published data

showing a healthy lower fat, high fiber, unrefined carb diet postively improves

all risk factors for heart disease. I can provide detailed data on both issues

if requested.

Whats interesting is if the topic is CRON, than the goal is to acheive the

optimal amount of nutrients per calorie consumed on a low calorie diet. Most

high fat foods (and/or pure fat foods) are very low in most nutrients, except a

few select ones. So, as you increase the amount of fat in a diet, the overall

broad spectrum ratio of nutrients per calorie goes down, way down. In other

words, the higher the fat diet, once optimal fat levels have been achieved, the

lower the level of most other nutrients. In addition, the few nutrients that

are more dense in fatty foods, can also be obtained at a lower nutrient per

calorie ratio in some other foods.

In addition, we want to reduce the amount of hunger we experience as much as

possible. Well, fat is the most concentrated food in calories, so as the

percentage of fat in a food or a diet, goes up, the amount or volume of food you

get to eat goes down, way down.

So, not only is getting as many nutrients per calorie important, to me, so is

getting as much food for as little calories as possible, also important.

Otherwise, hunger becomes a major issue. This raises the issue of calorie

density. Turns out that most of the foods that are the highest in nutrient

density are also the foods that are lowest in caloric density. These foods are

almost always low fat foods.

It is almost impossible to create a CRON diet that is low in calories, and high

in all nutrients that is also high in fat (>30%).

It is easy to create a CRON diet that is low in calories, high in all nutrients

that is high in carbohydrates, if you choose the right carbohydrates and lower

in fat (<20%). In addition, the properly choosen high carb low fat diet will

provide a much larger amount of food/volume to be consumed and be more

" satiating " .

Anybody disagree??

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeff:

What an extraordinarily interesting post that was. Where you say " I

can provide detailed data on both issues if requested " my response is

YES (please!).

I think we will all benefit from seeing it.

Thanks.

Rodney.

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

> >>2) You don't need to worry about a higher cholesterol level if

the

> RATIO of your HDL (good cholesterol) to LDL (bad cholesterol) has

> increased.

>

> Not true.

>

> Around the world, the populations with the lowest rates of heart

disease actually have very low HDLs, usually in the 20s and what

might be considered poor ratios. The emphasis on high HDLs and

ratios is actually misguided here in the US. The reason is, that on

a typical american diet, its almost impossible to acheive optimal

cholesterol levels. So, change the focus. Switch to raising HDL,

which is easier on the typical higher fat american diet, and switch

to focus on ratios.

>

> There is a dramatic difference in the " efficiency " of HDL on a

healthy low fat diet, that there is on a typical high fat US diet.

On a healthy low fat diet, HDL transport (the ability of the HDL to

remove cholesterol) does not change. So, even though the amount of

HDL was lower, these lower amounts removed as much cholesterol as the

higher amount of HDL on a higher fat diet.

>

> J Clin Invest. 1990 Jan;85(1):144-51

> A low-fat diet decreases high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol

levels by decreasing HDL apolipoprotein transport rates.

> Brinton EA, Eisenberg S, Breslow JL.

> Laboratory of Biochemical Genetics and Metabolism, Rockefeller

University, New York, New York 10021.

>

> Diets that reduce atherosclerosis risk lower levels of HDL

cholesterol (HDL-C), but the significance of this is unclear. To

better understand the mechanism of this phenomenon we studied the

turnover of HDL apolipoproteins A-I and A-II in 13 subjects on two

contrasting metabolic diets. Upon changing from high to low intake of

saturated fat and cholesterol the mean HDL-C decreased 29% from 56 +/-

13 (SD) to 40 +/- 10 mg/dl, while apo A-I levels fell 23% from 139

+/- 22 to 107 +/- 22 mg/dl (both P less than 0.001). Mean apo A-II

levels did not change. The fractional catabolic rate (FCR) of apo A-I

increased 11% from 0.228 +/- 0.048 to 0.254 +/- 0.063 pools/d, while

its absolute transport rate (TR) decreased 14% from 12.0 +/- 2.7 to

10.3 +/- 3.4 mg/kg per d (both P = 0.005). The decrease in HDL-C and

apo A-I levels correlated with the decrease in apo A-I TR (r = 0.79

and 0.83, respectively; P less than 0.001), but not with the increase

in apo A-I FCR (r = -0.04 and -0.02, respectively). In contrast,

within each diet the HDL-C and apo A-I levels were inversely

correlated with apo A-I FCR both on the high-fat (r = -0.85 and -

0.77, P less than 0.001 and = 0.002, respectively) and low-fat diets

(r = -0.67 and -0.48, P = 0.012 and 0.098, respectively) but not with

apo A-I TR. In summary, diet-induced changes in HDL-C levels

correlate with and may result from changes in apo A-I TR. In

contrast, differences in HDL-C levels between people on a given diet

correlate with and may result from differences in apo A-I FCR.

Therefore, the mechanism of dietary effects on HDL levels differs

substantially from the mechanism explaining the differences in levels

between individuals on a fixed diet. In assessing coronary heart

disease risk, it may be inappropriate to conclude that diet-induced

decreases in HDL are equivalent to low HDL within a given diet.

>

> >>>4) There are two types of LDL particles: small dense, and large

> fluffy. The dense type promotes atherosclerosis, whereas the

fluffy

> does not. Low-carbohydrate, moderate-fat diets produce the fluffy

> LDL, whereas low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets produce the dense bad

> LDL.

>

> The low fat high carb diets tested in both the recent studies were

not indicative of a healthy low fat diet. These diets had fat levels

of around 30%, were very low in fiber and consisted of mostly refined

carbs. In other word, very similar to a typical US diet. There is

quite a bit of published data showing a healthy lower fat, high

fiber, unrefined carb diet postively improves all risk factors for

heart disease. I can provide detailed data on both issues if

requested.

>

> Whats interesting is if the topic is CRON, than the goal is to

acheive the optimal amount of nutrients per calorie consumed on a low

calorie diet. Most high fat foods (and/or pure fat foods) are very

low in most nutrients, except a few select ones. So, as you

increase the amount of fat in a diet, the overall broad spectrum

ratio of nutrients per calorie goes down, way down. In other words,

the higher the fat diet, once optimal fat levels have been achieved,

the lower the level of most other nutrients. In addition, the few

nutrients that are more dense in fatty foods, can also be obtained at

a lower nutrient per calorie ratio in some other foods.

>

> In addition, we want to reduce the amount of hunger we experience

as much as possible. Well, fat is the most concentrated food in

calories, so as the percentage of fat in a food or a diet, goes up,

the amount or volume of food you get to eat goes down, way down.

>

> So, not only is getting as many nutrients per calorie important, to

me, so is getting as much food for as little calories as possible,

also important. Otherwise, hunger becomes a major issue. This

raises the issue of calorie density. Turns out that most of the

foods that are the highest in nutrient density are also the foods

that are lowest in caloric density. These foods are almost always

low fat foods.

>

> It is almost impossible to create a CRON diet that is low in

calories, and high in all nutrients that is also high in fat (>30%).

>

> It is easy to create a CRON diet that is low in calories, high in

all nutrients that is high in carbohydrates, if you choose the right

carbohydrates and lower in fat (<20%). In addition, the properly

choosen high carb low fat diet will provide a much larger amount of

food/volume to be consumed and be more " satiating " .

>

> Anybody disagree??

[Guest guest]

I agree. There are some people with low TC, HDL <40. But the AHA guidelines say try niacin to raise it. They don't say what to do if that doesn't work. Another thing the "ratio" is calc diff in FL than here. Some use the LDL/HDL ratio, others use the TC/HDL.

I think they don't fully understand low chole folks.

I don't necessarily agree with not being able to create a CRON diet >30% fat, for men at least. I could easily subst more fat for grains at 1800 kcals. I prefer lower fat.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeff Novick

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:52 AM

Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Cholesterol

>>2) You don't need to worry about a higher cholesterol level if the RATIO of your HDL (good cholesterol) to LDL (bad cholesterol) has increased.Not true.Around the world, the populations with the lowest rates of heart disease actually have very low HDLs, usually in the 20s and what might be considered poor ratios. The emphasis on high HDLs and ratios is actually misguided here in the US. The reason is, that on a typical american diet, its almost impossible to acheive optimal cholesterol levels. So, change the focus. Switch to raising HDL, which is easier on the typical higher fat american diet, and switch to focus on ratios. There is a dramatic difference in the "efficiency" of HDL on a healthy low fat diet, that there is on a typical high fat US diet. On a healthy low fat diet, HDL transport (the ability of the HDL to remove cholesterol) does not change. So, even though the amount of HDL was lower, these lower amounts removed as much cholesterol as the higher amount of HDL on a higher fat diet. J Clin Invest. 1990 Jan;85(1):144-51 A low-fat diet decreases high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol levels by decreasing HDL apolipoprotein transport rates.Brinton EA, Eisenberg S, Breslow JL.Laboratory of Biochemical Genetics and Metabolism, Rockefeller University, New York, New York 10021.Diets that reduce atherosclerosis risk lower levels of HDL cholesterol (HDL-C), but the significance of this is unclear. To better understand the mechanism of this phenomenon we studied the turnover of HDL apolipoproteins A-I and A-II in 13 subjects on two contrasting metabolic diets. Upon changing from high to low intake of saturated fat and cholesterol the mean HDL-C decreased 29% from 56 +/- 13 (SD) to 40 +/- 10 mg/dl, while apo A-I levels fell 23% from 139 +/- 22 to 107 +/- 22 mg/dl (both P less than 0.001). Mean apo A-II levels did not change. The fractional catabolic rate (FCR) of apo A-I increased 11% from 0.228 +/- 0.048 to 0.254 +/- 0.063 pools/d, while its absolute transport rate (TR) decreased 14% from 12.0 +/- 2.7 to 10.3 +/- 3.4 mg/kg per d (both P = 0.005). The decrease in HDL-C and apo A-I levels correlated with the decrease in apo A-I TR (r = 0.79 and 0.83, respectively; P less than 0.001), but not with the increase in apo A-I FCR (r = -0.04 and -0.02, respectively). In contrast, within each diet the HDL-C and apo A-I levels were inversely correlated with apo A-I FCR both on the high-fat (r = -0.85 and -0.77, P less than 0.001 and = 0.002, respectively) and low-fat diets (r = -0.67 and -0.48, P = 0.012 and 0.098, respectively) but not with apo A-I TR. In summary, diet-induced changes in HDL-C levels correlate with and may result from changes in apo A-I TR. In contrast, differences in HDL-C levels between people on a given diet correlate with and may result from differences in apo A-I FCR. Therefore, the mechanism of dietary effects on HDL levels differs substantially from the mechanism explaining the differences in levels between individuals on a fixed diet. In assessing coronary heart disease risk, it may be inappropriate to conclude that diet-induced decreases in HDL are equivalent to low HDL within a given diet.>>>4) There are two types of LDL particles: small dense, and large fluffy. The dense type promotes atherosclerosis, whereas the fluffy does not. Low-carbohydrate, moderate-fat diets produce the fluffy LDL, whereas low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets produce the dense badLDL.The low fat high carb diets tested in both the recent studies were not indicative of a healthy low fat diet. These diets had fat levels of around 30%, were very low in fiber and consisted of mostly refined carbs. In other word, very similar to a typical US diet. There is quite a bit of published data showing a healthy lower fat, high fiber, unrefined carb diet postively improves all risk factors for heart disease. I can provide detailed data on both issues if requested. Whats interesting is if the topic is CRON, than the goal is to acheive the optimal amount of nutrients per calorie consumed on a low calorie diet. Most high fat foods (and/or pure fat foods) are very low in most nutrients, except a few select ones. So, as you increase the amount of fat in a diet, the overall broad spectrum ratio of nutrients per calorie goes down, way down. In other words, the higher the fat diet, once optimal fat levels have been achieved, the lower the level of most other nutrients. In addition, the few nutrients that are more dense in fatty foods, can also be obtained at a lower nutrient per calorie ratio in some other foods. In addition, we want to reduce the amount of hunger we experience as much as possible. Well, fat is the most concentrated food in calories, so as the percentage of fat in a food or a diet, goes up, the amount or volume of food you get to eat goes down, way down. So, not only is getting as many nutrients per calorie important, to me, so is getting as much food for as little calories as possible, also important. Otherwise, hunger becomes a major issue. This raises the issue of calorie density. Turns out that most of the foods that are the highest in nutrient density are also the foods that are lowest in caloric density. These foods are almost always low fat foods. It is almost impossible to create a CRON diet that is low in calories, and high in all nutrients that is also high in fat (>30%).It is easy to create a CRON diet that is low in calories, high in all nutrients that is high in carbohydrates, if you choose the right carbohydrates and lower in fat (<20%). In addition, the properly choosen high carb low fat diet will provide a much larger amount of food/volume to be consumed and be more "satiating". Anybody disagree??

[Guest guest]

> > >>2) You don't need to worry about a higher cholesterol level if

> the

> > RATIO of your HDL (good cholesterol) to LDL (bad cholesterol) has

> > increased.

> >

> > Not true.

> >

> > Around the world, the populations with the lowest rates of heart

> disease actually have very low HDLs, usually in the 20s and what

> might be considered poor ratios. The emphasis on high HDLs and

> ratios is actually misguided here in the US. The reason is, that

on

> a typical american diet, its almost impossible to acheive optimal

> cholesterol levels. So, change the focus. Switch to raising HDL,

> which is easier on the typical higher fat american diet, and switch

> to focus on ratios.

Hi All,

As I view it, the issue is darkly cloudy by the use of bad fats in

the high-fat diets.

Cheers, AAl Pater.

[Guest guest]

Hi Rodney

First, here is one of the recent articles where the headlines raged " low fat

diet increases bad cholesterol " . I " bolded " the results that supposedly show

this negative effect. There is one other recent one, but the situation is

identical as is the responce.

Jeff

Changes in Dietary Fat Intake Alter Plasma Levels of Oxidized Low-Density

Lipoprotein and Lipoprotein(a)

Marja-Leena Silaste, et al

Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2004;24:498-503

Objective-To assess the effects of dietary modifications on oxidized low-density

lipoprotein (LDL).

Methods and Results-Thirty-seven healthy women were fed two diets. Both diets

contained a reduced amount of total

and saturated fat. In addition, one diet was low in vegetables and the other was

high in vegetables, berries, and fruit.

The dietary intake of total fat was 70 g per day at baseline and decreased to 56

g (low-fat, low-vegetable diet) and to

59 g (low-fat, high-vegetable diet). The saturated fat intake decreased from 28

g to 20 g and to 19 g, and the amount

of polyunsaturated fat intake increased from 11 g to 13 g and to 19 g (baseline;

low-fat, low-vegetable; low-fat,

high-vegetable; respectively). The amount of oxidized LDL in plasma was

determined as the content of oxidized

phospholipid per ApoB-100 using a monoclonal antibody EO6 (OxLDL-EO6). The

median plasma OxLDL-EO6

increased by 27% (P0.01) in response to the low-fat, low-vegetable diet and 19%

(P0.01) in response to the low-fat,

high-vegetable diet. Also, the Lp(a) concentration was increased by 7% (P0.01)

and 9% (P0.01), respectively.

Conclusion-Alterations in the dietary fat intake resulted in increased plasma

concentrations of lipoprotein(a) and

My comments....

Baseline diet was 36% fat with 15% saturated fat and 21 grams fiber. The low

fat diets were both 31% fat and 11% saturated fat (low vegetable) and 9% (High

vegetable) and 25 grams fiber (low vegetable) and 40 grams fiber(high vegetable)

.. My idea of a healthy low fat diet has about 15% fat with 3.5-4% saturated fat

and 40-50 grams fiber. No change in weight occured over the study period.

Now, even though the lower fat (though not what i would call " low fat " ), high

vegetable diet wasnt ideal, they didnt mention that the results also showed that

the low fat high veggie diet (as poor as it was) produced decreases in total

cholesterol , triglycerides, and LDL. HDL did go down slightly. The " bad' they

are saying is oxidized LDL went up. But again, this was not a very low fat,

low saturated fat diet, version of a healthy diet. This diet is more like an

AHA diet and the typical US diet.

WHat happens with a diet that i described...

LDL-cholesterol dropped by 23% in over 4,500 subjects (New Engl J Med.

323:1142,1990) and reduced the amount of oxidized LDL in the serum as well as

the susceptibility of isolated LDL for oxidation by copper. This same diet has

been reported to lower oxidative stress and C-Reactive protein (Circulation

106:2530,2002 & Metabolism 53:377,2004). This same diet had no impact on LPa

while reducing fibrinolytic factors (Atherosclerosis 84:25,1990). The bottom

line is that the diets used by Silaste et al. (above mentioned) were not low-fat

diets but were similar to the typical U.S. diet. Adopting a healthy low-fat diet

drastically alters the risk factors associated with the development of

atherosclerosis and has been shown to cause regression of atherosclerosis.

[Guest guest]

> I don't necessarily agree with not being able to create a CRON diet

> 30% fat, for men at least. I could easily subst more fat for grains

> at 1800 kcals. I prefer lower fat.

And it doing so, you will propably decrease more nutrients than you

will increase.

I didnt say you couldnt do it. I said it would be difficult or to be

accurate, what I said was ....

" It is 'almost' impossible to create a CRON diet that is low in

calories, and high in all nutrients that is also high in fat (>30%). "

I dont consider 1800 calories low in calories. However, my point

still holds. Sure, it would be easier at 1800 than at 1500 or 1200

cause you have more lee-way. However, show me the 1800 30% CRON

diet and I will make some minor adjustments to it and have a 1800

CRON diet that is lower in fat and higher in most all nutrients, if

not every nutrient. And give you a greater volume of food. That

was my real point.

[Guest guest]

When changing to a low fat diet the lipids do not improve immediately. If the test is short as in 6 months - not a good test.

Trigs are 3 parts fat and 1 gly, right? Takes a while to work out stored trigs.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeff Novick

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:36 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Cholesterol

Hi RodneyFirst, here is one of the recent articles where the headlines raged "low fat diet increases bad cholesterol". I "bolded" the results that supposedly show this negative effect. There is one other recent one, but the situation is identical as is the responce. JeffChanges in Dietary Fat Intake Alter Plasma Levels of Oxidized Low-Density Lipoprotein and Lipoprotein(a)Marja-Leena Silaste, et alArterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2004;24:498-503Objective-To assess the effects of dietary modifications on oxidized low-density lipoprotein (LDL).Methods and Results-Thirty-seven healthy women were fed two diets. Both diets contained a reduced amount of totaland saturated fat. In addition, one diet was low in vegetables and the other was high in vegetables, berries, and fruit.The dietary intake of total fat was 70 g per day at baseline and decreased to 56 g (low-fat, low-vegetable diet) and to59 g (low-fat, high-vegetable diet). The saturated fat intake decreased from 28 g to 20 g and to 19 g, and the amountof polyunsaturated fat intake increased from 11 g to 13 g and to 19 g (baseline; low-fat, low-vegetable; low-fat,high-vegetable; respectively). The amount of oxidized LDL in plasma was determined as the content of oxidizedphospholipid per ApoB-100 using a monoclonal antibody EO6 (OxLDL-EO6). The median plasma OxLDL-EO6increased by 27% (P0.01) in response to the low-fat, low-vegetable diet and 19% (P0.01) in response to the low-fat,high-vegetable diet. Also, the Lp(a) concentration was increased by 7% (P0.01) and 9% (P0.01), respectively.Conclusion-Alterations in the dietary fat intake resulted in increased plasma concentrations of lipoprotein(a) andMy comments....Baseline diet was 36% fat with 15% saturated fat and 21 grams fiber. The low fat diets were both 31% fat and 11% saturated fat (low vegetable) and 9% (High vegetable) and 25 grams fiber (low vegetable) and 40 grams fiber(high vegetable) . My idea of a healthy low fat diet has about 15% fat with 3.5-4% saturated fat and 40-50 grams fiber. No change in weight occured over the study period. Now, even though the lower fat (though not what i would call "low fat"), high vegetable diet wasnt ideal, they didnt mention that the results also showed that the low fat high veggie diet (as poor as it was) produced decreases in total cholesterol , triglycerides, and LDL. HDL did go down slightly. The "bad' they are saying is oxidized LDL went up. But again, this was not a very low fat, low saturated fat diet, version of a healthy diet. This diet is more like an AHA diet and the typical US diet. WHat happens with a diet that i described...LDL-cholesterol dropped by 23% in over 4,500 subjects (New Engl J Med. 323:1142,1990) and reduced the amount of oxidized LDL in the serum as well as the susceptibility of isolated LDL for oxidation by copper. This same diet has been reported to lower oxidative stress and C-Reactive protein (Circulation 106:2530,2002 & Metabolism 53:377,2004). This same diet had no impact on LPa while reducing fibrinolytic factors (Atherosclerosis 84:25,1990). The bottom line is that the diets used by Silaste et al. (above mentioned) were not low-fat diets but were similar to the typical U.S. diet. Adopting a healthy low-fat diet drastically alters the risk factors associated with the development of atherosclerosis and has been shown to cause regression of atherosclerosis.

[Guest guest]

>>>When changing to a low fat diet the lipids do not improve immediately. If the

test is short as in 6 months - not a good test. Trigs are 3 parts fat and 1

gly, right? Takes a while to work out stored trigs.

First, I am not sure what your comments on the study mean. THere were

significant changes in the lipids and the point is that they were saying that

the changes were negative and I was showing how they may have been negative but

the experimental diet was not truly what the headlines said it was. So, the

issue was not lack of change, or not enough time for change.

Second, if you switch to a healthy lower fat, higher fiber diet, you can see

dramatic changes in lipids and tryglycerides in very short periods even as short

as one week. On average, I see TGs drop about 33% and LDL and TC drop about

25-30% in 10-12 days. And that is an average. I am working with someone right

now who on 5/2 his lipids were tested and his TGs were almost 200 and his TC was

289. 10 days later 5/12 his TGs were 125 and his TC was 150.

The test diets were not truly healthy low fat diets and even they saw

significant changes though not as quickly.

Jeff

[Guest guest]



Hi Jeff,

Not disagreeing with your conclusions.

My comment is just that individuals with high TC as in 350-400 do not seem to react to diet as much as expected or needed. My wife and her family and my sis-in-law have high chole, ages 66 to 89. The reactions I suggest are not enough to get to the fabled 200 level. At best 240, Certainly diet plays a role in some, I guess, but it is not a cure,IMO. Since 1987, I've been aware of friends who were trying very hard with diet and exercise to get theirs down just to 200, and didn;t succeed. they weren't using CR, at least not on purpose.

CR may very well produce lower cholesterol - mine dropped from 206 to a range of 116- 156, but I'm not a high cholesterol person. Ie, I've never had what was considered high cholesterol at any time. So my response to a weight lowering or the diet itself was effective. But not for my wife who used the same diet and dropped 40# to 145#. Her TC would be 280 if she didn't take zocor.

And in her case, her trigs did not fall right away, I think because the fat deposits held it high until they dwindled. It took a while and maybe there were small changes in daily TC, but the upshot is that meaningful change took a while. After 3 yrs her TC is the same. Good but not good enough with diet alone.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeff Novick

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 7:56 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Cholesterol

>>>When changing to a low fat diet the lipids do not improve immediately. If the test is short as in 6 months - not a good test. Trigs are 3 parts fat and 1 gly, right? Takes a while to work out stored trigs. First, I am not sure what your comments on the study mean. THere were significant changes in the lipids and the point is that they were saying that the changes were negative and I was showing how they may have been negative but the experimental diet was not truly what the headlines said it was. So, the issue was not lack of change, or not enough time for change. Second, if you switch to a healthy lower fat, higher fiber diet, you can see dramatic changes in lipids and tryglycerides in very short periods even as short as one week. On average, I see TGs drop about 33% and LDL and TC drop about 25-30% in 10-12 days. And that is an average. I am working with someone right now who on 5/2 his lipids were tested and his TGs were almost 200 and his TC was 289. 10 days later 5/12 his TGs were 125 and his TC was 150. The test diets were not truly healthy low fat diets and even they saw significant changes though not as quickly. Jeff

[Guest guest]

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Issue 281

December 15, 2001

Eating

More May Lower Cholesterol

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Eating More Frequently May Lower

Your Cholesterol

A person's cholesterol levels may depend not only on what he or she eats, but also how often.

Researchers found that middle-aged and older adults who ate frequently throughout the day had lower

"bad" cholesterol levels compared with those who tended to down one or two large meals per day. This was

despite the fact that the frequent eaters, on average,

had a higher calorie and fat intake.

The researchers looked at data on more than 14,600 men and women aged 45 to 75 who were part of

a larger cancer study. Participants were asked about

their current eating habits and activity levels, and

had their cholesterol levels, blood pressure and weight

recorded.

The researchers found that participants' total cholesterol counts

declined as their eating frequency increased.

Those who ate at least five or six times a day had the

lowest total cholesterol, on average, while the highest

measurements were found among those who dined only once

or twice a day. The same pattern showed up for LDL ("bad")

cholesterol.

They found a decrease of approximately 5% in concentrations of total cholesterol and low density

lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol in men and women who eat

six or more times a day compared with those who eat

once or twice a day.

Frequent eaters did not, however, have higher levels of "good" HDL cholesterol, which is believed to help protect the heart from disease.

Yet the findings are biologically plausible.

Animal research has shown that those given infrequent

large meals show metabolism patterns different from

animals fed more often -- including a higher absorption

of sugar in the intestines, higher after-meal peaks

of the sugar-regulating hormone insulin, and greater

activity in enzymes that synthesize cholesterol.

As for humans it could also be that frequent eaters metabolize

what they eat rather differently than infrequent eaters.

Despite the higher calorie and fat intake among frequent eaters in this study, the findings do not

give people license to gorge on French fries.

The authors stressed that their data do not provide evidence for advocating frequent snacking on

junk food. They advised that people who wish to hold

down their cholesterol levels should first and foremost

eat more fruits and vegetables and cut their saturated

fat intake.

British Medical Journal December

1, 2001;323:1286-1288

[Guest guest]

are you exercising?? maybe you need to up the amount of exercise... <dianamagic2000@...> wrote:

does anyone know of a "tried and true" alternative way to reduce it?

thanks, diana

[Guest guest]

fruits and vegetables.virgin coconut oil, flax seed, garlic, oh heck here is an article that will help.

High Cholesterol

Tips & Home Remedies

Include the following cholesterol-lowering foods in your diet: apples, bananas, carrots, cold-water fish, dried beans, garlic, grapefruit, and olive oil.

Make sure to take in plenty of fiber in the form of fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. Water-soluble dietary fiber is very important in reducing serum cholesterol. It is found in barley, beans, brown rice, fruits, glucomannan, guar gum, and oats. Oat bran and brown rice bran are the best foods for lowering cholesterol. Whole-grain cereals (in moderation) and brown rice are good as well. Since fiber absorbs the minerals from the food it is in, take extra minerals separately from the fiber.

Drink fresh juices, especially carrot, celery, and beet juices. Carrot juice helps to flush out fat from the bile in the liver and this helps lower cholesterol.

Go on a monthly spirulina fast, with carrot and celery juice or lemon and steam-distilled water.

Use only unrefined cold- or expeller-pressed oils. Cold-pressed oils are those that have never been heated above 110 degrees (F) during processing-at this temperature, enzyme destruction begins.

Extra virgin coconut oil is perhaps the healthiest of the widely available oils. I recommend cooking almost exclusively with extra virgin coconut oil. Consume as much as two to four tablespoons per day of the oil in cooking, smoothies, or right off the spoon. It contains large amounts of lauric acid, a potent antimicrobial and one of the chief fatty acids in breast milk.

Do not eat any nuts except raw, unsalted walnuts and almonds. Almonds are rich in the amino acid arginine, and were found in one study to cut cholesterol levels by sixteen points over a four-week period.

Reduce the amount of saturated fat and cholesterol in your diet. Saturated fats include all fats of animal origin as well as palm kernel oils. Eliminate from the diet all hydrogenated fats and hardened fats and oils such as margarine, lard, and butter. Margarine that contains plant sterols, however, is a healthy option. Consume no heated fats or processed oils, and avoid animal products (especially pork and pork products) and fried or fatty foods. Always read food product labels carefully. You may consume nonfat milk, low-fat cottage cheese, and skinless white poultry meat (preferably turkey), but only in moderation.

Do not consume alcohol, cakes, candy, carbonated drinks, coffee, gravies, nondairy creamers, pies, processed or refined foods, refined carbohydrates, tea, tobacco, or white bread.

Get regular moderate exercise. Always consult with your health care provider before beginning any new exercise program.

Try to avoid stress and sustained tension. Learn stress-management techniques.

High cholesterol is directly related to conditions such as arteriosclerosis, cardiovascular disease, circulatory problems, heart attack, and hypertension. These conditions are discussed separately in Part Two. It is advisable to refer to all of the sections on these interrelated diseases to learn about all aspects of, and contributing causes to, high cholesterol.

Meat and dairy products are primary sources of dietary cholesterol. Vegetables and fruits are free of cholesterol.

Many people use margarine or vegetable shortening as substitutes for butter because they contain no cholesterol. However, these products contain compounds called cis- and trans-fatty acids that become oxidized when exposed to heat and can clog the arteries. They have been linked to the formation of damaging free radicals.

In large amounts, coffee can elevate blood cholesterol levels, more than doubling the risk of heart disease. According to a report published in The New England Journal of Medicine, observation of 15,000 coffee drinkers revealed that as the intake of coffee rises, the amount of cholesterol in the blood goes up.

The body does need some fats, but they must be the right kind. Good fats supply essential fatty acids, which are a very important link in our health chain. Fats supply energy, and they stay in the digestive tract for longer periods than proteins or carbohydrates, giving a feeling of fullness. They act as an intestinal lubricant, generate body heat, and carry the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E, and K in the body. The protective myelin sheaths that protect nerve fibers are composed of fats. All cell membranes are composed of fats as well. Unfortunately, most Americans consume much too much of the wrong fats-that is, saturated, hydrogenated, and heated fats-which are linked to obesity, cardiovascular disease, and certain types of cancer.

Many fast-food restaurants use beef tallow (fat) to make their hamburgers, fish, chicken, and French-fried potatoes. Not only do these fried foods contain high amounts of cholesterol, but this fat is subjected to high temperatures in the deep-frying process, resulting in oxidation and the formation of free radicals. Heating fat, especially frying food in fat, also produces toxic trans-fatty acids, which seem to behave much like saturated fats in clogging the arteries and raising blood cholesterol levels.

Studies have shown that diets consisting of grains, fruits, and vegetables result in lower blood cholesterol levels. In the United States and northern Europe, where people consume large amounts of meat and dairy products, extremely high rates of heart and circulatory disease are present. Pearlmoon <pearlmoon@...> wrote:

Does anyone here know of any other foods besides oats that will help reduce cholesterol? Thanks.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

>>>I just had the results of my bloodwork back and my cholesterol level is

high. Anyone have any hints on how to get it down? <<<

Hi Tina,

I had borderline high cholesterol, last Jan, and did a bit of research to

figure out ways to lower it myself. My Total cholesterol was 237, my LDL was 154

and my HDL was 59. It's the ratio of Total to HDL that my holistic doc said

was most important (the ideal ratio being 3.5:1), although when your Total and

LDL are in the higher ranges, it's still prudent to bring them down while

trying to raise your HDL.

With strict diet (only good fats, increasing fiber and cutting out all sugars

and white flour products), rigorous exercise 4 times a week (weight bearing

exercise, as well as aerobic), and using a product called Cholest-Natural by

X-Tend Life, I managed to bring my levels down into acceptable ranges (my Total

level is now 191 and LDL is 106). If interested, the website for this product

is:

http://xtend-life.com/product_detail.php?product_id=13 & lang_id=1 & menu_id=15

I should add that it's main ingredient, " Policosanol " , has had poor reviews

of late in recent scientific studies, reporting that it's ineffective at

lowering cholesterol, but I would have to say that in my case, I've had very

favorable results and I'm a little loathe to believe all the science out there,

which

can be biased in favor of pharmaceuticals peddling the heavier drugs. Like

flushing, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so to speak, and there are

many testimonials on the X-Tend Life site in its favor. So, I decided to give

it a try for 3 months and, while I can't in all honesty, attribute my success

solely to the Cholest-Natural (because I have been really consistent with diet

and exercise), I feel it's contributed to lowering my levels.

At any rate, apart from reducing one's weight (if this is an issue), there is

much you can do diet-wise to reduce cholesterol. Walnuts, for example, have

been studied and are effective at lowering cholesterol, as well as anything

else containing essential fatty acids (avocados, oily fish like salmon,

mackerel,

etc), while eliminating all saturated fats (red meats, hydrogenated oils,

etc).

Hope this may be a wee bit of help and wishing you all the best, Tina.

Blessings, n

[Guest guest]

hi tina,

the best medicine to lower cholesterol and dissolve gallstones is

Cholesterinum 6x, a homoepathy medicine, to be taken thrice daily.

The secret is that bad bile forms gallstones and good bile dissolves

gallstones. Just drink a lot of water during the day to cleanse your liver to

produce good bile.

sarabjeet singh

india

Tina <frinh96221@...> wrote:

Is high cholesterol linked to gallstones? I just had

the results of my bloodwork back and my cholesterol

level is high. Anyone have any hints on how to get it

down? I've been working on dissolving gallstones and a

liver cleanse, I'm wondering if that will help or if I

should be doing something else?

Tina

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

What is high in your cholesterol? Triglycerides or LDL?

Your gall bladder could be irritating your pancreas and causing it to

release triglycerides (according to my endocrinologist).

Gabe

>

> Is high cholesterol linked to gallstones? I just had

> the results of my bloodwork back and my cholesterol

> level is high. Anyone have any hints on how to get it

> down? I've been working on dissolving gallstones and a

> liver cleanse, I'm wondering if that will help or if I

> should be doing something else?

>

> Tina

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

> What is high in your cholesterol? Triglycerides or

> LDL?

LDL went 133, 145, 152 (should be under 99)

cholesterol went 212, 217, 242 (should be under 199)

triglycerides went 197, 149, 155

This is over the last two years when I have

lost 35 pounds

eaten healthily

rowed 1.5 million metres

I'm wondering what more I can do.

Tina

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

have you tried that cinnamon?

>

>

>

> > What is high in your cholesterol? Triglycerides or

> > LDL?

>

> LDL went 133, 145, 152 (should be under 99)

>

> cholesterol went 212, 217, 242 (should be under 199)

>

> triglycerides went 197, 149, 155

>

> This is over the last two years when I have

>

> lost 35 pounds

> eaten healthily

> rowed 1.5 million metres

>

> I'm wondering what more I can do.

>

> Tina

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

> have you tried that cinnamon?

Not yet, I'm still reading and deciding what to do.

Tina

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I heard it didn't work. But it was used for diabetes. Not sure wha t

your using it for? Hope it works.

>

>

>

> > have you tried that cinnamon?

>

> Not yet, I'm still reading and deciding what to do.

>

> Tina

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Careful about what you hear in the media. When a " negative " study comes out

about a natural treatment, the media is flooded by news releases and propaganda

proffered by those with interest. Truth can be elusive. Smoke and mirrors,

cloak and dagger.

----- Original Message -----

From: rescombroker<mailto:rescombroker@...>

gallstones <mailto:gallstones >

Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:04 PM

Subject: Re: cholesterol

I heard it didn't work. But it was used for diabetes. Not sure wha t

your using it for? Hope it works.

>

>

>

> > have you tried that cinnamon?

>

> Not yet, I'm still reading and deciding what to do.

>

> Tina

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I have had my blood work drawn before and after and actually on-going to make

sure it is working. It is, so I will continue using Cinnamon until my bloodwork

shows it isn't working anymore or I don't need it anymore.

Thanks for your concern though.

Karma

----- Original Message -----

From: Dave Shelden

gallstones

Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:19 AM

Subject: Re: Re: cholesterol

Careful about what you hear in the media. When a " negative " study comes out

about a natural treatment, the media is flooded by news releases and propaganda

proffered by those with interest. Truth can be elusive. Smoke and mirrors, cloak

and dagger.

----- Original Message -----

From: rescombroker<mailto:rescombroker@...>

gallstones <mailto:gallstones >

Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:04 PM

Subject: Re: cholesterol

I heard it didn't work. But it was used for diabetes. Not sure wha t

your using it for? Hope it works.

>

>

>

> > have you tried that cinnamon?

>

> Not yet, I'm still reading and deciding what to do.

>

> Tina

>

> __________________________________________________

>