Re: Delayed Learning & Emotional Problems

December 6, 2004

Hi J

I have a daughter with Down

Syndrome so I hang out on many different lists where the kids have other issues as

well.

Depending on the path you choose, labels

can be helpful. Though I certainly understand the up side of not having one as

well, I think you should research the positives to having a real dx as it often

times gives you

clues as to what might help.

I am not a Dr, but it sounds as though

your son has PDD, Pervasive Developmental Delay. It’s somewhat of a catch

all phrase and often is used as a label for kids who are on

the Autistic Spectrum, which I would suspect your son has.

He prolly has fewer emotional issues than you

suspect. It sounds as though he is dealing with some sensory issues which, to our

eyes, appear to be emotional but are in fact the result of a faulty nervous system. The ‘odd’

behaviors are his way of dealing with a body that is malfunctioning. The BM

issue is very common in kids with ASD.

It can put

a kid into sensory over load to sit on a cold toilet seat with the flooding of

odd sensations and produce a BM with all it’s accompanying odd sensations

etc… easier to do it the way you always have then adjust.

Writing problems again are common with ASD as is

not being able to maintain eye while listening at the same time.

Most kids on the spectrum have SERIOUS gut

issues and are over run with bad gut bugs. Those gut bugs LOVE LOVE LOVE white

bread and all refined carbs and sugar!!!

The kids will go ape with out their carb fix. Many have reactions to phenols too. Do

his ears or cheeks ever flush bright red after eating certain raw fruits? Has he self limited

himself to a small selection of favorite foods and will NOT try anything else?

If you force the issue, does he gag or throw up? Some of the kids will gag at the sight of a spoon!

used to do that all the time.

The good news is there are SO many things

you can do to help your child! There are a large number of books on Sensory Integration

Therapies. “ The Out of Sync Child”

is THE classic and would be a big

help to you. Most libraries have it.

Many parents are using the Specific

Carbohydrate Diet on their kids with GREAT success!! Me included, though is not

on the spectrum. I think she would have been heading there though! ASD is very

common in kids with Down Syndrome.

The diet is wholesome and contains NO grains at all. It’s

based on meats, nuts, fruits. Veggies certain dairy

products and that’s it. It will heal your son’s gut. ’s

was so messed up she couldn’t digest raw foods last years, but after a

full year on the diet and eating cooked fruits and veggies she is now eating and LOVING raw fruits

and veggies. If your child

self limits his foods, you will understand what a miracle *that* is. We have all seen our kids gain in positive

behavior, speech and cognitive abilities. You might want to join the pecan

bread group and hang out for a while and see if you recognize some of your

child’s behaviors and food issues there. pecanbread/

There is a ton of good documentation about

the how the gut affects the brain and behaviors on this site along with why ASD

can be helped with this diet. I can’t say enough good things about SCD.

It has been a true life saver for my and has gotten her off a number

of drugs, calmed down her autoimmune problems, improved her thyroid status to

the point of being able to stop the drugs, has helped-but not cured- her GERD

and has improved her abilities to do many new things!

It seems very complicated at first, but it’s

actually very easy and the results will keep you motivated to stick with it. Please

read as much as you can there, and especially what the mom’s post to the

list. Those gals are also experts for supplements that work for the kids with

some of the issues your son has.

http://www.pecanbread.com/giresearch.html#braingutconnection

http://www.pecanbread.com/BTVCautismchapter.html

Carol in IL

Mom to seven kids, twin grandson's and ,

4 DS

" Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in

vain. " Psalm 127

My problem is not how I look, it's how you see me

December 6, 2004

Hi Sharyn

That is how we feel. That is why we didn't take to be 'assessed' when the 'authorised person' from the Board of Studies wanted us too. That is why they won't give us a longer period and keep assessing us every 6 months because we don't have much work samples and he feels he is behind and going to get behind .

We believe in 'unschooling' I don't have any set learning at all. If the kids want to do something then we will but otherwise I just let them play as they will.

There is no forced learning in this house. Aborigine culture is all oral and they are/going to be taught that at the appropriate time.

We are always talking to them about things. I don't really have a problem with it at all. It is as you said forced learning and I suppose it is just family pressure that he is slow that makes me worry sometimes.

Thank you for your support that others think the same is a great comfort that I am not neglecting my sons at all.

We are actually doing a letter to the Education Minister at present telling them to leave us alone. They didn't create or give birth to these children why should they be able to dictate how they are raised.

With regard to the nappy issue that is pretty much what we are doing although sometimes I get cranky about it because he walks around in it for a couple or hours and we have to hound and hound him to clean himself up.

I suppose I wrote that email in a moment of self doubt that I am doing the wrong thing.

Thank you again for your support.

Love, Light and Blessings

Tracey

----- Original Message -----

From: Sharyn Cerniglia

health

Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 1:29 AM

Subject: RE: Delayed Learning & Emotional Problems

Here again, I don't think this is something I'd put a lot of attention on. Kids these days are born freedom-seekers and will often do things different from the norm, just to experience their independence and freedom. If you call it "delayed learning and emotional problems," then that's what he's going to have. And I know you don't want that. Ignore the poo situation....he cleans himself up; and when he gets tired of dealing with it -- and no one is paying any attention to it -- he'll stop.

I don't know Dylan, obviously, but if everyone was telling me I was wrong all the time because I didn't write very well or want to read (my now 24yo son didn't take to reading until he was in the military -- at 20!), I'd be pretty angry, too.

Again, feed him the best food you can, ignore the "problems," and give him all the love and acceptance you can. He'll come around. These kids these days march to a different drummer....and it's my firm belief that we should let them. They are the future of the earth, and I believe they're going to usher in a whole new paradigm of life. But not if we do our best to make them conform to the same old thing, what society believes is the norm.

Sharyn

From: rainbowegret [mailto:egret.11@...] My oldest boy Dylan who is just 7 years old has I don't know what he has because we don't want to take him to the doctor to get a label.He gets very upset easy and kind of holds his breath crying when he gets upset or hurt. He was a breath holder when he was younger. He also has displayed some learning difficulties not writing very well yet or reading (although this is subject to the strict unreasonable guidelines of the Education Dept.)He uses the toilet OK for wee but he still puts a nappy on for poo. He goes into the shower to clean himself up after (thank goodness). Does anyone have any suggestions for something that would assist his wellbeing apart from the obvious going raw which we are currently working on with great difficulty.

December 6, 2004

Tracey, Dylan sounds like he may have high functioning autism. I will need

to know a lot more about him, although you have given me enough info to make

me 95% sure this is the problem.

Did he have a language delay? when did he start walking? Is he sensitive to

certain textures? sounds? lights? What else does he eat? How does he respond

to changes in routine? How is his digestion?

I know this is a lot to deal with, but you can help him enormously with

natural health and nutrition and a lot of one on one work.

Janet

----- Original Message -----

From: " rainbowegret " <egret.11@...>

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:44 PM

Subject: Delayed Learning & Emotional Problems

>

> Hi Everyone

>

> My oldest boy Dylan who is just 7 years old has I don't know what he

> has because we don't want to take him to the doctor to get a label.<SNIP>

>

December 6, 2004

You are welcome, Tracey. I know how it feels to raise a child who is an individual..."they" wanted to diagnose him as ADD and put him on Ritalin and I wouldn't let them, but I had to fight them every step of the way. He never really came into his own until he went into the military, and the only reason he went into the military was because he rebelled against school so much that he couldn't get into a good college. He's always had my support in his rebellions (oh, the stories I could tell you!<G>), and the only constructive criticism I ever gave him was that some things he would have to learn to deal with just to get along in the world. But it was up to him to choose to learn them or to experience life "on the outside", so to speak. He's still a bit rebellious, but he's grown up to be a wonderful adult who has learned when and where to choose his battles.

I believe the Native Americans here in the US can get some sort of exemption from the US "rules" regarding education, for a heritage reason. Can you do the same as an Aborigine? He appears to be telling me (from all this way away!) that he prefers aboriginal ways and won't be coerced into "the norm." Once everyone stops fighting him, he'll find his own way in his own time.

As for the nappy issue, don't get cranky about it and don't hound him to clean himself up. He's just rebelling against that, too. Just ignore it. And ignore him. When he wants attention and he doesn't smell good, just wrinkle your nose and say you'd prefer to interact with him when he smelled more pleasant. Then gently return to whatever you were doing.

Good luck to you, and I'm always here if you want to email me privately to talk. Been there, done that....got a lot of t-shirts!<G>

Sharyn

From: Rainbow Egret [mailto:egret.11@...]

That is how we feel. That is why we didn't take to be 'assessed' when the 'authorised person' from the Board of Studies wanted us too. That is why they won't give us a longer period and keep assessing us every 6 months because we don't have much work samples and he feels he is behind and going to get behind .

Thank you for your support that others think the same is a great comfort that I am not neglecting my sons at all.

We are actually doing a letter to the Education Minister at present telling them to leave us alone. They didn't create or give birth to these children why should they be able to dictate how they are raised.

With regard to the nappy issue that is pretty much what we are doing although sometimes I get cranky about it because he walks around in it for a couple or hours and we have to hound and hound him to clean himself up.

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December 6, 2004

And I forgot to tell you the best thing of all! We are truly good friends. Have been always. Because I didn't try to coerce him into some artificial lifestyle, but just actively supported him in his own quests in life, with all the love I could give him, we've always been able to talk to each other about everything. And now he's just about my best friend. We just traveled to Florida for four days together to set up my winter home down there (he's going to stay in the Philadelphia home over the winter to take care of it) and had the best time ever.

And he eats really well, too. We lived on salads and seafood for four days!<G>

Sharyn

From: Sharyn Cerniglia [mailto:sharyn.cerniglia@...]

Good luck to you, and I'm always here if you want to email me privately to talk. Been there, done that....got a lot of t-shirts!<G>

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December 7, 2004

Oh boy… I don’t know Tracey!

They don’t really know the cause of

many things kids deal with. My

neighbor swears her son’s ASD was caused by the early use of antibiotics

because she had a vaginal staph infection and he was exposed at delivery.

Others say it was the accumulation of mercury from vaccines or the MMR setting up

shop in the gut lining. Other researchers say it’s genetic with other

causes setting it off….

If we knew what caused some of these

things, MAN!! That would be great! They don’t even know what causes DS yet. I mean

they know it’s a genetic anomaly, but what causes that anomaly is still a

mystery. Most of us don’t

think there it’s much of a random accident either as we know people who

have more than

one child with DS, or a child with DS and some other type of problem and or twins! It’s all

very interesting stuff and might even prove to be useful to someday ;-)

But for now, we just need to work at what

we think we can help and learn to adapt to the rest. If you are worried that

you did something by home birthing, please don’t!!! It’s really

not worth while to go down that path. For one, a hospital birth doesn’t guarantee

a safe passage, and two- you have no way of knowing it was anything from the

birth anyway. You can’t change a thing and if given the choice with all

the info you had, you would prolly do it again. ;-)

I had every test known to the OB, except the amnio, and they still missed

both her 2 major heart and the DS!!! LOL

Life just is….best to not look back,

just forward. J

You might like this web site

: http://disabilityisnatural.com/

Carol in IL

Mom to seven kids, twin grandson's and ,

4 DS

" Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in

vain. " Psalm 127

My problem is not how I look, it's how you see me

Hi Carol

Thanks for that.

Can any of what you have described

be caused at the time of birth?

Love, Light and Blessings

Tracey

·

December 7, 2004

Carol

Our kids are not vaccinated and Dylan has only had 1 course of antibiotics when he was about 2. We dont frequent doctors at all.

My 3rd, 4th and 5th have never been. Others about 3 times.

Dylan speech was very delayed. Said mum, dad etc usual time then he stopped for ages, can't remember age about 4-5 when he started talking again.

He does get red checks they all do. Haven't been able to work out what cause is yet. Seems to be different things.

Will read your email again and answer any thing else I can.

Feeding baby at present typing one handed.

Love, Light & Blessings

Tracey

----- Original Message -----

From: doihavtasay

health

Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:14 AM

Subject: RE: Delayed Learning & Emotional Problems

Oh boy… I don’t know Tracey!

They don’t really know the cause of many things kids deal with. My neighbor swears her son’s ASD was caused by the early use of antibiotics because she had a vaginal staph infection and he was exposed at delivery. Others say it was the accumulation of mercury from vaccines or the MMR setting up shop in the gut lining. Other researchers say it’s genetic with other causes setting it off….

If we knew what caused some of these things, MAN!! That would be great! They don’t even know what causes DS yet. I mean they know it’s a genetic anomaly, but what causes that anomaly is still a mystery. Most of us don’t think there it’s much of a random accident either as we know people who have more than one child with DS, or a child with DS and some other type of problem and or twins! It’s all very interesting stuff and might even prove to be useful to someday ;-)

But for now, we just need to work at what we think we can help and learn to adapt to the rest. If you are worried that you did something by home birthing, please don’t!!! It’s really not worth while to go down that path. For one, a hospital birth doesn’t guarantee a safe passage, and two- you have no way of knowing it was anything from the birth anyway. You can’t change a thing and if given the choice with all the info you had, you would prolly do it again. ;-)

I had every test known to the OB, except the amnio, and they still missed both her 2 major heart and the DS!!! LOL

Life just is….best to not look back, just forward. J

You might like this web site : http://disabilityisnatural.com/

Carol in IL

Mom to seven kids, twin grandson's and , 4 DS

"Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain." Psalm 127

My problem is not how I look, it's how you see me

Hi Carol

Thanks for that.

Can any of what you have described be caused at the time of birth?

Love, Light and Blessings

Tracey

·

December 7, 2004

Hi Janet

Dylan started saying mum, dad etc at usual age then he stopped talking until he was oh I don't somewhere between age 4 - 5 years old.

He walked just before his 1st birthday.

I suspect he has dyslexia because sometimes he writes things backwards. This morning he wrote his name and it was backwards right to left.

Don't know about textures. He loves sandwiches and toast (white bread which we are trying to change) with vegemite or peanut butter.

We move a lot and it doesn't seem to bother him outwardly they get very excited when we are moving to a new house. We rent and it is really hard to find something suitable and we are forced to move again and again, sales, knock downs etc.

Had to rush to this house as last one knocked down and its not baby friendly.

He loves fruit and meat, sweets, (which we are trying to cut), pasta, rice (changing to brown), potatoes, mashed potato and pumpkin. Doesn't eat much green veges or salads, will eat cucumber, not tomato.

Don't know about textures, sounds, lights. What sort of textures do you mean. His digestion is OK he only uses his bowel sometimes everyday (once) but moslty every 2nd or 3rd day. By using nappies that causes a problem because he does it when he can and if we are out or whatever he will hold it til we get home and he can get a nappy on.

Sometimes it seems as if he is not hear you speak to him and he doesn't hear you.

We are really trying to leave him be in regard to the nappy thing. As I said he gets very upset easy.

Love, Light & Blessings

Tracey

----- Original Message -----

From: Janet Seidlitz

health

Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:41 AM

Subject: Re: Delayed Learning & Emotional Problems

Tracey, Dylan sounds like he may have high functioning autism. I will need to know a lot more about him, although you have given me enough info to make me 95% sure this is the problem.Did he have a language delay? when did he start walking? Is he sensitive to certain textures? sounds? lights? What else does he eat? How does he respond to changes in routine? How is his digestion?I know this is a lot to deal with, but you can help him enormously with natural health and nutrition and a lot of one on one work.Janet----- Original Message ----- From: "rainbowegret" <egret.11@...><health >Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:44 PMSubject: Delayed Learning & Emotional Problems>>> Hi Everyone>> My oldest boy Dylan who is just 7 years old has I don't know what he> has because we don't want to take him to the doctor to get a label.<SNIP>>

December 7, 2004

I agree with Carol. It sounds like your son is dealing with a form

of autism. My son was diagnosed with autism at 2 1/2 (now 5) and

had similar issues with only wanting to poop in a pull up. No one

wants to give their child a lable but I is just a label that my

child is recovering from.

I am strong advocate for alternative medicine. My son was affected

by vaccines. He tested postive for mercury and aluminum posioning.

Food allergies and mylein antibodies. The biggest thing in his

recovery has been diet, homeopath and osteopath. Find a great

homeopath, osteopath and a good diet will be the key to your son's

recovery. Here are some books and websites to help you with this

journey.

1)Impossible Cure: The Promise of Homeopathy

by Amy L. Lansky

2)Unraveling the Mystery of Autism and Pervasive Developmental

Disorder: A Mother's Story of Research and Recovery

by Karyn Seroussi

3)Breaking the Vicious Cycle: Intestinal Health Through Diet -- by

Elaine Gloria Gottschall

4)Children With Starving Brains: A Medical Treatment Guide for

Autism Spectrum Disorder, Second Edition

by Jaquelyn McCandless

5)Treating Autism: Parent Stories of Hope and Success

Price: $22.00

Availability: Usually ships in 2 business days

Seller: Autism Research Institute

6)Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment: What You Can Do to Get

Better, how Your Doctor Can Help You

Hall Hall Cutler

http://www.saras-autism-diet.freeservers.com/Exile/II-3.html

http://www.feingold.org/

http://www.impossiblecure.com/

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze32sjx/recoveredfromautism/

http://www.tinussmits.nl/english/dynamic.htm?main=pvs/dynamic.htm?

main1=http://www.tinussmits.nl/english/pvs/Post-Vaccination%

20Syndrome.htm

In health , " doihavtasay "

<doihavtasay@c...> wrote:

> Hi :-)

> I have a daughter with Down Syndrome so I hang out on many

different

> lists where the kids have other issues as well.

> Depending on the path you choose, labels can be helpful. Though I

> certainly understand the up side of not having one as well, I

think you

> should research the positives to having a real dx as it often times

> gives you clues as to what might help.

>

> I am not a Dr, but it sounds as though your son has PDD, Pervasive

> Developmental Delay. It's somewhat of a catch all phrase and often

is

> used as a label for kids who are on the Autistic Spectrum, which I

> would suspect your son has.

> He prolly has fewer emotional issues than you suspect. It sounds

as

> though he is dealing with some sensory issues which, to our eyes,

appear

> to be emotional but are in fact the result of a faulty nervous

system.

> The 'odd' behaviors are his way of dealing with a body that is

> malfunctioning. The BM issue is very common in kids with ASD. It

can

> put a kid into sensory over load to sit on a cold toilet seat with

the

> flooding of odd sensations and produce a BM with all it's

accompanying

> odd sensations etc. easier to do it the way you always have then

adjust.

>

> Writing problems again are common with ASD as is not being able to

> maintain eye while listening at the same time.

> Most kids on the spectrum have SERIOUS gut issues and are over run

with

> bad gut bugs. Those gut bugs LOVE LOVE LOVE white bread and all

refined

> carbs and sugar!!! The kids will go ape with out their carb fix.

Many

> have reactions to phenols too. Do his ears or cheeks ever flush

bright

> red after eating certain raw fruits? Has he self limited himself

to a

> small selection of favorite foods and will NOT try anything else?

If you

> force the issue, does he gag or throw up? Some of the kids will

gag at

> the sight of a spoon! used to do that all the time.

>

> The good news is there are SO many things you can do to help your

child!

> There are a large number of books on Sensory Integration

Therapies. "

> The Out of Sync Child " is THE classic and would be a big help to

you.

> Most libraries have it.

> Many parents are using the Specific Carbohydrate Diet on their

kids with

> GREAT success!! Me included, though is not on the

spectrum. I

> think she would have been heading there though! ASD is very

common in

> kids with Down Syndrome.

>

> The diet is wholesome and contains NO grains at all. It's based on

> meats, nuts, fruits. Veggies certain dairy products and that's it.

It

> will heal your son's gut. 's was so messed up she couldn't

> digest raw foods last years, but after a full year on the diet and

> eating cooked fruits and veggies she is now eating and LOVING raw

> fruits and veggies. If your child self limits his foods, you will

> understand what a miracle *that* is. We have all seen our kids

gain in

> positive behavior, speech and cognitive abilities. You might want

to

> join the pecan bread group and hang out for a while and see if you

> recognize some of your child's behaviors and food issues there.

> pecanbread/

>

> There is a ton of good documentation about the how the gut affects

the

> brain and behaviors on this site along with why ASD can be helped

with

> this diet. I can't say enough good things about SCD. It has been a

true

> life saver for my and has gotten her off a number of

drugs,

> calmed down her autoimmune problems, improved her thyroid status

to the

> point of being able to stop the drugs, has helped-but not cured-

her

> GERD and has improved her abilities to do many new things!

> It seems very complicated at first, but it's actually very easy

and the

> results will keep you motivated to stick with it. Please read as

much as

> you can there, and especially what the mom's post to the list.

Those

> gals are also experts for supplements that work for the kids with

some

> of the issues your son has.

>

> http://www.pecanbread.com/giresearch.html#braingutconnection

>

> http://www.pecanbread.com/BTVCautismchapter.html

>

> Carol in IL

> Mom to seven kids, twin grandson's and , 4 DS

> " Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain. " Psalm 127

>

> My problem is not how I look, it's how you see me

December 7, 2004

OK Tracey, from what you have told me Dylan is autistic. Now I can help you relate to him a bit better and understand what is going on ;-) Keep up the good work in switching to healthier foods. Talk to him about how and why you are trying new things. Try to maintain eye contact when you talk with him and he will absorb more.

As far as education, what you need to remember is everything must be visually based. Autistics need visual cues to learn. They are VERY intelligent people, they just learn differently is all.

The nappie situation will probably continue for some time. Try to maintain your patience, talk to me when it starts to run out... it helps enormously to have other parents to talk to. Just keep encouraging him to try and use the potty. Most times there is an underlying digestive issue contributing to this kind of thing. The dietary changes will help, but you might want to get some aloe vera juice for him as well. Just a little once a day to start. Make sure he is getting plenty of omega oils as well. UDO's has an excellent blend in liquid form you can add to food or juice.

Remember, anytime you are needing some ideas or just support, let me know!

Janet

----- Original Message -----

From: Rainbow Egret

health

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:45 PM