Re: ? - every other night DMSA supps/ALA

June 5, 2008

Hi Amy,

Dana has also helped me and she has been kind enough to say that I also have

helped her. This is not personal, this is just a discussion. Although I know

that some people will be upset when there is a discussion they disagree with,

this is a discussion group.

My suggestion that she start a group was not an invitation that she leave this

group I just thought if there were that many people who were intimidated by this

list, they might feel more comfortable in a group where they could post more

freely.

I don't hate Dana or anyone else. I do hate it when kids get hurt and I do

believe that using chelators without regard for their half-life makes that much

more likely.

[ ] Re: ? - every other night DMSA supps/ALA

Wow, will this conversation ever end!?! God, let it go!!

Also, when did this conversation turn into anti-Dana? She's helped

alot of people (me!) in this group and other groups. I'm not ashamed

to go to her outside of the group. I do it alot! (Thanks Dana!!) I do

have a backbone but I try to avoid bull crap like this! I have a

temper and rage issues, so I prefer to try and stay calm. It's not

all metals that causes my problems but a long line of tainted DNA! As

we prefer to call it " it's the in us! "

I've tried both protocols. I'm NOT lazy and WANT the 8 hour dosing. I

preferred the 3-4 hours but if my son has problems then I need to

find something better for HIM! The first 2 rounds went really good on

the AC protocol but after that my son started sleeping through the

night and he would NOT wake up. Also the yeast was terrible and

almost caused a seizure. With the 8 hour dosing, he did alot better

and we had less yeast problems. At the moment, I'm not sure how I'm

going to chelate him. Whatever I choose should NOT get me flamed when

asking questions in this group.

I've recommended this group to lots of people because it's full of

great info on everything! Not just chelation. Maybe Dana should start

her own group. I would definitely join it.

When I read your post, I'm thinking " Wow, what a hater! "

Amy

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: danasview

>

> What about the approx 3-4 people per month, who send me private

email

> about their child who did not do well with frequent dose

chelation? I

> am currently working with two right now, altho usually it is just

one

> at a time.

>

> ====>You should start a group, if you're getting 3 or 4 a month

for even the last two or three years this adds up to 100's of people,

nothing to make people sit up and notice like numbers.

>

> And it doesn't take some people a very long time to get on line

with this stuff and start helping one another.

>

> These people do not want to post here because options other than

> frequent dose won't be considered. The two that I am assisting

right

> now, have both done 3x per day ALA with good results, after a few

> months of frequent dose with major problems.

>

> I always recommend watching carefully for problems with 3x per

day,

> but any problems that arise, we have been able to diagnose and

> address. This does not mean that there might come a time in the

> future that I can't figure out how to address a problem that

arises,

> but so far things have gone well for the people who have

contacted me.

>

> These people would benefit from the collective wisdom of this

list,

> but do not believe it would be productive, and in fact sometimes

they

> believe it would be counterproductive, to post here. So they are

> " stuck " with what I can offer.

>

> Then there are the people, like myself, who never tried frequent

dose

> and just started with 3x per day and it worked well, without

problems.

>

> Sometimes, even if the science/chemistry indicates that something

is

> " best " , an individual person will need something different. ANY

> protocol can work well for some kids and not for others. Each

child

> is different. The trick is finding what works for YOUR child.

>

> Dana

>

June 5, 2008

> ====>So if I am hearing you correctly now you are saying that in

addition to dose timing not making a difference

Dose timing DOES make a difference for certain children. For some,

they need frequent dosing or they have problems. And for others, they

can't do frequent dosing or it causes problems.

>>that these kids do better with 8 hour dosing than the 3/4 hour dosing.

This is correct. Some kids do better, sometimes MUCH better, with 3x

per day.

>> I've always known you to be truthful so I'm not doubting your word,

but this is confusing and almost defies logic.

I never said it was logical =)

> What I hear (mostly) from the parents of 8 hours is that 8 hours

is best for the parent and then there is that dynamic that some

parents have that if something is better for them, they MAKE IT better

for their child, not because it is better but because the parents want

it to be.

8 hours is often better for all parties involved.

> ====>Sorry, no sympathy here, at all. Everyone has a backbone and

people need therapy or self-work to be less concerned with what people

think, this is their problem, not the list. Noone has ever died from

expressing their experiences on the internet that I know of.

Many of these parents truly want to chelate their child, they are

convinced it is one of the keys to recovery. But they just watched

their child have a bad reaction [sometimes just " bad " , other times the

stories that have been sent to me are " nasty bad " or " just plain

awful " ]. Watching your child go thru something like this is very

difficult, and the desperation in the tone of some of the emails is

really sad. But I think it is admirable that they don't want to give

up. It is very understandable why those parents don't " have a

backbone " , at least at the time they are sending me the email.

Some parents are also toxic themselves.

> Where's their concern for other children who might benefit from

their experience?

Most parents have a correct attitude, at least in my opinion, that

they need to help their own child first.

Dana

June 5, 2008

> ====>You should start a group, if you're getting 3 or 4 a month

for even the last two or three years this adds up to 100's of people,

nothing to make people sit up and notice like numbers.

I already moderate three groups, including this one. I have no time

for any more!

And, I have learned a few things here, that I did not even learn on

abmd forum. In fact, I have a vague memory that it was YOU who posted

one gem that was one of the keys to my son's recovery. Why would I

want to start another list, when the collective wisdom on THIS list is

recovering children?

This list has " personalities " , and some strongly held opinions, just

like other lists. Any time you have a large group of people,

disagreements will arise. Just ignore those, and find the good

information that is there.

Dana

June 5, 2008

Dana,

I posted this earlier but I regret articulating this statement in this way. I

was not suggesting you leave this group, just that you start another one for

parents who felt intimated by this one. I didn't foresee that expressed this way

it *could* be perceived in a negative way as that was not my intention. Btw, I

think it not good form to ask the moderator to leave :-)

[ ] Re: ? - every other night DMSA supps/ALA

> ====>You should start a group, if you're getting 3 or 4 a month

for even the last two or three years this adds up to 100's of people,

nothing to make people sit up and notice like numbers.

I already moderate three groups, including this one. I have no time

for any more!

And, I have learned a few things here, that I did not even learn on

abmd forum. In fact, I have a vague memory that it was YOU who posted

one gem that was one of the keys to my son's recovery. Why would I

want to start another list, when the collective wisdom on THIS list is

recovering children?

This list has " personalities " , and some strongly held opinions, just

like other lists. Any time you have a large group of people,

disagreements will arise. Just ignore those, and find the good

information that is there.

Dana

June 5, 2008

>

> Wow, will this conversation ever end!?! God, let it go!!

I think discussions like this are important, if for no other reasons

than to 1) give people a chance to learn information from two

different viewpoints, and 2) let people know there are options besides

frequent dosing that can work.

> Also, when did this conversation turn into anti-Dana?

So far as I am reading, it is not anti-Dana. But then I am relatively

clueless in social interactions, so maybe I am just not seeing it.

Dana

June 5, 2008

Hi,

I'm quite new to this, and here because I am working on my own mercury

issues. I was wondering if the phase I liver detoxification is one of

the keys for determining the dosing interval?

Am just coming to grips with this detoxification stuff so correct me if

I've misunderstood this please, but if the chelator is dosed according

to it's half life - then anything which changes the half life impacts on

the dosage interval. So, using a lot of GSE is going to slow down Phase

I and increase the half life of drugs/chelators in the body making it

safer and maybe even important to stretch the dosage interval.

Using something like St 's Wort speeds up Phase I which would

shorten the half life and also the required dosage interval.

So far those are the only two things that I have linked to the Phase I

pathway speed - but there must be more.

And the balance between Phase I and Phase II speeds must have major

impacts on how bad the symptoms are during the round.

I'm also wondering if sometimes the regression is about that even once

the metals are gone - the susceptibility to infection remains - so for

example, I notice that Dana still seems to pull her kids back after

watching viruses go straight to their brains, but now it's the

antiviral/bacterial/yeast protocols that help, not chelation anymore.

It's inspirational and encourages me.

Gail.

> >

> > Wow, will this conversation ever end!?! God, let it go!!

>

> I think discussions like this are important, if for no other reasons

> than to 1) give people a chance to learn information from two

> different viewpoints, and 2) let people know there are options besides

> frequent dosing that can work.

>

> > Also, when did this conversation turn into anti-Dana?

>

> So far as I am reading, it is not anti-Dana. But then I am relatively

> clueless in social interactions, so maybe I am just not seeing it.

>

> Dana

>

June 5, 2008

----- Original Message -----

From: Gail

Hi,

I'm quite new to this, and here because I am working on my own mercury

issues. I was wondering if the phase I liver detoxification is one of

the keys for determining the dosing interval?

===>Hi Gail,

Welcome, I did think about this awhile back and thought to ask Dana about this

but she indicated she had used the 3x a day dosing prior to using GSE, so no

definite answer about this, for me.====>

And the balance between Phase I and Phase II speeds must have major

impacts on how bad the symptoms are during the round.

====>I have just heard this theory on Trudeau's site and am unclear

whether it is valid or not. I would like to hear more about this from Andy or

others who know more than I. Anybody?====>

I'm also wondering if sometimes the regression is about that even once

the metals are gone - the susceptibility to infection remains - so for

example, I notice that Dana still seems to pull her kids back after

watching viruses go straight to their brains, but now it's the

antiviral/bacterial/yeast protocols that help, not chelation anymore.

====>Most people would think the yeast/viruses were due to toxicity creating

immune system issues, although Dana may disagree. Once the metals are gone the

immune system should be fully repaired, able to fight whatever it encounters, so

this doesn't seem likely, to me.===>

It's inspirational and encourages me.

====>Glad we didn't lose you in our little discussion. I don't know what to do

to help people understand that only by talking and talking about this stuff

repeatedly, respectfully, can we hope to find answers. Important issues often

require going into detail about issues. Even sticking to the to the topic does

not seem to help as disagreement is seen by some as " bashing " and such.

Maybe it's not my job to help people with this but I think the lists could be

put to more valuable use if you could just speak about the issues without

stirring everybody up. Thanks for your input, it made me remember that I wanted

to ask about the balance between Phase I and II.

Gail.

> >

> > Wow, will this conversation ever end!?! God, let it go!!

>

> I think discussions like this are important, if for no other reasons

> than to 1) give people a chance to learn information from two

> different viewpoints, and 2) let people know there are options besides

> frequent dosing that can work.

>

> > Also, when did this conversation turn into anti-Dana?

>

> So far as I am reading, it is not anti-Dana. But then I am relatively

> clueless in social interactions, so maybe I am just not seeing it.

>

> Dana

>

June 5, 2008

> Dana,

> I posted this earlier but I regret articulating this statement in

this way. I was not suggesting you leave this group, just that you

start another one for parents who felt intimated by this one.

That is how I understood it. Don't worry about it.

>>Btw, I think it not good form to ask the moderator to leave :-)

I actually read this message this morning, before I logged off for the

day. This comment made me laugh most of the day! Which was good,

because I paid $4.39 per gallon and then drove 150 miles........

Because of my husband's SSN, we will receive our stimulus check in

July, and it will go mostly to pay for my #1's high school tuition,

and the rest to OPEC.

Still laughing =)

Dana

June 5, 2008

> ===>Hi Gail,

> Welcome, I did think about this awhile back and thought to ask

Dana about this but she indicated she had used the 3x a day dosing

prior to using GSE, so no definite answer about this, for me.====>

Yes, I used 3x per day from the very beginning, but did not start GSE

until round 8.

> ====>Most people would think the yeast/viruses were due to

toxicity creating immune system issues, although Dana may disagree.

I believe the mercury did destroy my son's immune system.

>>Once the metals are gone the immune system should be fully repaired,

No, once the metals are gone, the metals are gone. You still have to

repair the immune system.

For example, my son was severely deficient in vitamin C and lysine

[metals impair absorption of nutrients], so once the metals were gone,

he was still severely deficient in vitamin C and lysine. And it was

those deficiencies that allowed viruses to migrate directly into his

brain. I had to supplement high doses of vitamin C and lysine [with

carnitine for the vitamin C] before that portion of his immune system

was " repaired " .

Dana

June 6, 2008

Very interesting, per usual, Dana.

Are tests of amino acid levels in the body always enough to diagnose

insufficiencies like these and identify where supplementing with

specific aminos make sense?

Thanks a lot.

> > ===>Hi Gail,

> > Welcome, I did think about this awhile back and thought to ask

> Dana about this but she indicated she had used the 3x a day dosing

> prior to using GSE, so no definite answer about this, for me.====>

>

> Yes, I used 3x per day from the very beginning, but did not start GSE

> until round 8.

>

> > ====>Most people would think the yeast/viruses were due to

> toxicity creating immune system issues, although Dana may disagree.

>

> I believe the mercury did destroy my son's immune system.

>

> >>Once the metals are gone the immune system should be fully repaired,

>

> No, once the metals are gone, the metals are gone. You still have to

> repair the immune system.

>

> For example, my son was severely deficient in vitamin C and lysine

> [metals impair absorption of nutrients], so once the metals were gone,

> he was still severely deficient in vitamin C and lysine. And it was

> those deficiencies that allowed viruses to migrate directly into his

> brain. I had to supplement high doses of vitamin C and lysine [with

> carnitine for the vitamin C] before that portion of his immune system

> was " repaired " .

>

> Dana

>

June 6, 2008

Dumb question: How do you know what was deficient?

From: danasview & lt;danasview@... & gt;

Subject: [ ] Re: ? - every other night DMSA supps/ALA

Date: Thursday, June 5, 2008, 11:33 PM

& gt; === & gt;Hi Gail,

& gt; Welcome, I did think about this awhile back and thought to ask

Dana about this but she indicated she had used the 3x a day dosing

prior to using GSE, so no definite answer about this, for me.==== & gt;

Yes, I used 3x per day from the very beginning, but did not start GSE

until round 8.

& gt; ==== & gt;Most people would think the yeast/viruses were due to

toxicity creating immune system issues, although Dana may disagree.

I believe the mercury did destroy my son's immune system.

& gt; & gt;Once the metals are gone the immune system should be fully repaired,

No, once the metals are gone, the metals are gone. You still have to

repair the immune system.

For example, my son was severely deficient in vitamin C and lysine

[metals impair absorption of nutrients], so once the metals were gone,

he was still severely deficient in vitamin C and lysine. And it was

those deficiencies that allowed viruses to migrate directly into his

brain. I had to supplement high doses of vitamin C and lysine [with

carnitine for the vitamin C] before that portion of his immune system

was " repaired " .

Dana

June 7, 2008

Gail -

As far as stretching the dosage interval goes, you never need to do that.

Dosing more frequently is fine, dosing less frequently is a problem. If

removal is slowed down, you're good - in fact, better.

Now, as far as the the process by which ALA (or actually, DHLA) is removed from

the body goes, I <<believe>> (though this is absolutely a cursory reading) it

is phase II, not phase I. Glutathione conjucation is phase II, and this is the

path by which metals are removed. Speeding or slowing it up has an effect on

rate of metal excretion. (AI p.110) Reading a couple of emails on the Gregus

article seems to indicate that this is the same biochemical system that removes

the DHLA. So, it <<appears>> phase I is not relevant.

_In any case_, as stated above, this is all irrelevant. Slowing down ALA

clearance means you have a longer half-life, which is great!

Dave.

------

Posted by: " Gail " gail_m_allen@... gail.allen

Date: Thu Jun 5, 2008 7:18 am ((PDT))