Milk thistle question

[Guest guest]

Have you tryed taking the Milk Thistle with FOOD?

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In a message dated 12/12/2007 10:14:02 AM Central Standard Time,

jacobadler123@... writes:

sunnfuun <_mailto:debb94%40aol.com_ (mailto:debb94@...) > wrote:

Hi,

Been battling candida since I can remember, but lately the symptoms

have become nothing short of life changing in a miserable way.

I just started taking Milk Thistle capsules two days ago. Because

I'm so sensitive, I even poured out half the capsule and figured I'd

work my way up in dosage. The 1st one I took before bed and when I

awoke the next morning I was SOOOO nauseous I could barely function,

in fact I almost cancelled a business meeting. I took another

yesterday and was nauseus again and felt quite ill for a shorter

length of a time frame, but sick none the less.

My question is this, is it possible that the nausea could be from

toxin release? Has anyone else ever experienced this and if so did

it eventually go away? That's never been a symptom of healing for me

in the past. I have read that it's possible to have an allergy to

milk thistle & this is a symptom :-( Anyone have suggestions as to

whether changing brands would help or anything else. Hoping to

continue the regimen.

Thanks in advance,

Debbie

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[Guest guest]

Debbie,

I've had the experience with milk thistle of loose bowels, which I assume is a

combonation of toxin release and increase in bile production in the liver from

the mi;k thistle. I'm no practitioner, but I would guess that it is a detox

reaction you're having. No doubt those more expert than I wll have more to say.

You are wise to go slow.

Best of health,

sunnfuun <debb94@...> wrote:

Hi,

Been battling candida since I can remember, but lately the symptoms

have become nothing short of life changing in a miserable way.

I just started taking Milk Thistle capsules two days ago. Because

I'm so sensitive, I even poured out half the capsule and figured I'd

work my way up in dosage. The 1st one I took before bed and when I

awoke the next morning I was SOOOO nauseous I could barely function,

in fact I almost cancelled a business meeting. I took another

yesterday and was nauseus again and felt quite ill for a shorter

length of a time frame, but sick none the less.

My question is this, is it possible that the nausea could be from

toxin release? Has anyone else ever experienced this and if so did

it eventually go away? That's never been a symptom of healing for me

in the past. I have read that it's possible to have an allergy to

milk thistle & this is a symptom :-( Anyone have suggestions as to

whether changing brands would help or anything else. Hoping to

continue the regimen.

Thanks in advance,

Debbie

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

>

>

> Have you tryed taking the Milk Thistle with FOOD?

> -------------------------------------------------------------------

Now there's a thought... ;o)

Is this any good to anyone?

Milk thistle

Milk thistle is a member of the Asteraceae or daisy

family. Generally, the fruit or seed that is used

medicinally.

Uses and Benefits: Milk thistle seeds are used as a

liver protectant or to treat established liver

disease. This application is based on a long tradition

of use for liver, spleen, and biliary disorders. A

standardized formulation has been studied by European

researchers and promoted for prevention or treatment

of all types of liver damage.

Pharmacology: Milk thistle seeds contain silymarin, a

mixturo of three primary flavonolignans: silybin (also

known as silybinin or silibinin), silychristin, and

silydianin. Silybin is the most abundant. There are

several potential mechanisms by which theso compounds

may protect the liver from hepatotoxins, or treat

chronic liver disease.

In vitro, silybin is an antioxidant that reduces lipid

peroxidation and scavenges radicals in human

platelets, white blood cells, and endothelial cells.

These antioxidant properties limit depletion of

important endogenous antioxidants such as glutathione

and su–peroxide dismutase in vitro and in vivo. This

effect has been demonstrated to reduce oxidative

damage to liver cells by a assortment of different

hepatotoxins (e.g., Amanita phalloides mushrooms,

acetaminophen, carbon tetrachloride, and alcohol).

Silybin also strongly inhibits the enzyme

5-lipoxygenase, and thus reduces the formation of

inflammatory leukotrienes. The high concentrations

required to inhibit cyclo-oxygenase, however, are

unlikely to be achieved in clinical practice. Lastly,

silybin limits the activity of Kupffer cells in vitro,

which may help to slow the progression of chronic

liver disease.

Clinical Trials: In an RCT of drug-induced hepatitis,

milk thistle was given to patients with liver disease

caused by phenothiazines. A subset of patients also

had serology-confirmed hepatitis B. At 90 days, there

was no significant change in transaminase levels for

patients re–ceiving silymarin or placebo, with or

without continuation of psy–chotropic medication. Two

RCTs evaluated the use of milk thistle for prophylaxis

of drug-induced liver disease. One 8-week, unblinded

trial in 172 patients found that significantly fewer

patients had elevations of transaminases when a

silymarin/Fumaria offici– na/is herbal combination was

administered with antituberculosis drugs, compared to

antituberculosis drugs administered alone. In

contrast, a 12-week, double-blinded trial in 222

patients ob–served no significant differences in

transaminases when silymarin was given in combination

with tacrine, compared to tacrine alone. Case series

of intravenous silybin used for Amanita mushroom

poisoning have been published in Europe. Typically,

the silybin was given in daily doses of 20-50 mg/kg,

depending on the disease severity, and in combination

with other treatments used at the time such as gastric

lavage and penicillin. In general, when silybin was

administered within 48 hours of the ingestion and the

disease severity was mild to moderate, a benign

clinical course was reported. When silybin was

administered to patients with severe disease, a

decline in mortality was also observed when compared

to historical controls. However, prospective

controlled trials for this use have not been published.

Adverse Effects: No major side effects have been

reported for patients using milk thistle. Loose stools

and other mild gastrointestinal effects occur rarely.

Side Effects and Interactions: There are no reported

drug interactions with milk thistle. Silybin does not

interact with most hepatic cytochrome P450 (CYP)

enzyme systems, but inhibition of CYP3A4 (as well as

UGT1A6/9 and possibly CYP2C9) enzymes has been

demonstrated in several in vitro studies. Caution is

thus warranted in using the herbs in combination with

other drugs metabolized in the liver.

Cautions: People with allergies to plants of the

Asteraceae family(e.g., daisy, sunflower,

chrysanthemum, ragweed) may be allergic to milk

thistle as well. Milk thistle's safety in pregnant and

breast-feeding women has not been established.

Preparations & Doses: A daily dose of 200-400 mg of

silymarin in 2-3 divided doses is usually recommended;

this range of dosage was employed in the clinical

trials. Milk thistle products are usually standardized

to contain no less than 70-80% silymarin. The product

used in most of the European trials, Legalon, is

marketed in the U.S. as Thisylin (Nature's Way).

Silipide, or IdB 1016, a silymarin-phosphatidylcholine

complex that has enhanced bioavailability, is not

marketed in the U.S.

Summary Evaluation The efficacy of milk thistle in

alleviating symptoms of viral and alleviating related

liver disease is not established. Improved liver

Ilansaminases and improved survival in mild alcoholic

liver discount have been demonstrated in limited

studies, but are not tently found among the many

clinical trials. It is doubtful that thistle is

beneficial in severe liver disease such as cirrhosis.

Ophylactic use of milk thistle to protect the liver

against hepato xins (e.g., alcohol) is based primarily

on laboratory and animal (fata, with inadequate

clinical evidence. Milk thistle has not been i:Ompared

with interferon or other pharmaceutical options for

viral epatitis, nor has an effect on viral loads been

evaluated. Although dinically relevant benefits are

not clearly established, because thistle has no major

side effects and there is a lack of well–lolerated

orthodox drugs, it is tempting for patients to try

milk this–lie for preventing or treating established

liver disease. If used, efficacy can be monitored with

appropriate laboratory testing.

You're not to be so blind with patriotism that

you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter

who does it or says it: Malcolm X

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry if this is stated somewhere else on the board, but I have a

few questions.

Which is better to give: milk thistle extract or a capsule?

How much and frequency would be appropriate for a 75lb 8 yr old?

Best brand to look for?

Thanks so much!

Donna