Re: Vitamin D, Autoimmune Disease and LDN

[Guest guest]

I know I read that low Vitamin D levels are an environmental trigger

in many autoimmune diseases.

Researchers from the Department of Nutritional Sciences at

Pennsylvania State University report that low vitamin D levels occur

in multiple sclerosis (MS), rheumatoid arthritis, insulin-dependent

diabetes mellitus (IDDM), and inflammatory bowel disease. Low levels

also occurs in diseases causing malabsorption of nutrients, such as

Graves' and celiac disease. Vitamin D deficiency also occurs in

patients with Crohn's disease whose disease is in remission. In

addition, increased sunlight exposure as children is associated with

a lower risk of developing MS in adulthood.

The most important source of vitamin D, measured as the hormone 1,25-

dihydroxy vitamin D3, is through sun exposure.

I live in Arizona now- sunshine all the time- yet I have MS (however)

I did live in New Jersey most of my life and only moved here in 1996.

DX with MS in 2005. But i must admit, I have always advoided the sun

and wore sun block as well never did like fish or many foods rich in

vitamin D- I alwasy loved milk, yogurt etc... but shortly before

being DX, I thought i would get healthy and went on a Thrumon

diet which banned all dairy products like, milk and yogurt..I had

even stopped drinking my diet Pepsi- (which is my drug of choice)-

then I get sick?? Go figure- I feel better now if I eat a well

rounded diet and not exclude any one food group and even drik my diet

pepsi, which they say caffine could help with MS?? I know that the

nutrasweet isn't any good and sugars in general can cause nerve

stimualtion and weakned immune system.

I would have your doctor run blood work on all other immune issues to

rule them out and ask them for a diet plan that would bring your

levels to norml...perhaps LDN is keeping you from having a full blown

immune issue- so beat it to the punch now!

Much of the information above is from:

http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.com/blog.cfm/low_vitamin_d_levels

I hope this helps- and good health to YOU- Jill

>

> I was told by my doctor today that my Vitamin D count is low at 23.

> This is down from 29. Normal range starts at 32. I have an

undiagnosed

> autoimmune disease for which I am taking LDN. Does anyone know if

> there is an autoimmune disease associated with low vitamin D? If

you

> are taking LDN, did this affect your Vitamin D count at all?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Marla,

A few years ago when I first started researching vitamin D I contacted

one of the leading researchers on vitamin D - Dr Holick. I

had been reading about a connection between a deficiency in vitamin D

and autoimmune disease.

What I asked Dr Holick was the " chicken-and-egg " question:

" Does a vitamin D deficiency CAUSE the autoimmune disease ~ or ~ does

the autoimmune disease cause the deficiency? "

His answer surprised me:

" Both are probably correct….D deficiency alters the immune system and

when the immune system is activated it uses more vitamin D. "

I followed up with Dr Holick asking for confirmation that because I

have autoimmune disease...and my husband has had cancer...that we both

need to maintain our vitamin D at a higher level -- and he confirmed

that " yes -- for both conditions " . I try to maintain my levels to be

above 50 -- closer to 60. I take several " 25,hydroxy " blood tests

throughout the year to determine the amount of D3 supplement I need to

take to maintain that level.

Best wishes...

Jann

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info. I few weeks ago I thought I had Crohn's. I

went to a GI doctor and he said he didn't think so. Then it started

to calm down on its own. I do spend a lot of time in the sun but I

wear SPF 30.

> >

> > I was told by my doctor today that my Vitamin D count is low at

23.

> > This is down from 29. Normal range starts at 32. I have an

> undiagnosed

> > autoimmune disease for which I am taking LDN. Does anyone know

if

> > there is an autoimmune disease associated with low vitamin D? If

> you

> > are taking LDN, did this affect your Vitamin D count at all?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, very helpful. I have had an autoimmune disease waiting in

the wings ready to strike for several years now and I am trying to

head it off as best I can.

>

> Hi Marla,

>

> A few years ago when I first started researching vitamin D I

contacted

> one of the leading researchers on vitamin D - Dr Holick.

I

> had been reading about a connection between a deficiency in

vitamin D

> and autoimmune disease.

>

> What I asked Dr Holick was the " chicken-and-egg " question:

>

> " Does a vitamin D deficiency CAUSE the autoimmune disease ~ or ~

does

> the autoimmune disease cause the deficiency? "

>

> His answer surprised me:

>

> " Both are probably correct….D deficiency alters the immune system

and

> when the immune system is activated it uses more vitamin D. "

>

> I followed up with Dr Holick asking for confirmation that because I

> have autoimmune disease...and my husband has had cancer...that we

both

> need to maintain our vitamin D at a higher level -- and he

confirmed

> that " yes -- for both conditions " . I try to maintain my levels

to be

> above 50 -- closer to 60. I take several " 25,hydroxy " blood tests

> throughout the year to determine the amount of D3 supplement I

need to

> take to maintain that level.

>

> Best wishes...

> Jann

>

[Guest guest]

hi jann

did holick explain why one's 1-25D levels could be very high while the

25-D was low? that is the problem i am having. the marshall prot has an

expln for this but it doesn't seem to work for me. i lowered my 25-D 10

points and my 1-25D got even higher. but aren;t high 1-25D levels

problematic as they lead to osteoporosis?

confused about D

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

RE: did holick explain why one's 1-25D levels could be very high while

the 25-D was low?

This is an excerpt from the July newsletter from The Vitamin D Council

that specifically answers your question. Not sure if their website

has been updated with the most recent newsletter, but here's the URL

for The Vitamin D Council: http://vitamindcouncil.org/

....

The Vitamin D Newsletter

July, 2008

[Excerpt]

The only blood test that can diagnose vitamin D deficiency is a

25-hydroxy-vitamin D [25(OH)D]. Get your levels above 50 ng/ml, year

around. Unfortunately, about 10-20% of the doctors in the USA order

the wrong test. They order a 1,25-dihydroxy-vitamin D, thinking that

by measuring the most potent steroid in the system, they are getting

useful information. They are not. 1,25-dihydroxy-vitamin D is an

adaptive hormone; it goes up and down with calcium intake.

Furthermore, as 25(OH)D is a weak steroid, when 25(OH)D levels are

low, the body compensates by increasing the amount of the potent

steroid, 1,25-dihydroxy-vitamin D. Thus, a common cause of high

1,25-dihydroxy-vitamin D is low 25(OH)D or vitamin D deficiency. So

these doctors see the 1,25-dihydroxy-vitamin D is normal or high and

tell their patients that they are OK when they are vitamin D

deficient, advice that may prove fatal. Furthermore, the reference

labs in this country know this is occurring but, to date, have not

taken steps to educate the doctors ordering the test because the

reference labs make more money off a 1,25-dihydroxy-vitamin D than

they do from a 25-hydroxy-vitamin D. Although the misdiagnosis of

vitamin D deficiency may prove fatal, the doctors, and the reference

labs, are ordering and processing the wrong test.

......

Hope this helps your situation...??...

Best wishes...

Jann

[Guest guest]

Sun block does NOT block the skin from making vit. D. The best way is to stay out of the sun, the next best is to cover up completely and if that cannot be done then apply Ketoconazole cream to the exposed areas.

[Guest guest]

A level of D-25 of 23ng/ml is by no means low. When one looks at

population studies of those that don't take doses of this

immuno-suppressive seco-steroid (D3 or D2) the normal range is closer

to 12-30 ng/ml. The lab ranges in the US and Canada are not based upon

population studies; but upon the arbitrary whims of a few " experts "

who in my opinion fail to understand the basic science behind the

human physiology. High levels of the active metabolite 1,25-D directly

suppress conversion of D3 into 25-D. Measuring just the 25-D to

understand D metabolism is rather foolish once this is understood. In

many chronic diseases labeled 'autoimmune' there is a profound

disregulation of vitamin D metabolism whereby the body produces an

excess amount of 1,25-D that normally would activate the VDR (vitamin

D receptor). The disease process causes the lower levels of 25-D(below

12ng/ml of 25-D); not the lack of ingested pre-hormone D3 or not

enough sun exposure. Taking D3 actually causes the innate immune

system to be further inactivated because 25-D acts as an antagonist on

the VDR. As I have said before taking " vitamin D " would in my opinion

be contraindicated if on LDN because immuno-suppressants are not to be

taken. We want a fully functional immune system not muted by exogenous

steroidal or seco-steroidal hormones. People can make all the

25-D they need for physiologic function by getting just a few minutes

of sun on their skin once in a while. Measure the 1,25-D in even

people who get almost no sun and you find that they have adequate

circulating levels of the active hormonal form. By the way, the first

thing anyone who takes medical statistics learns is that correlation

does not prove causality. Too many people it seems have forgotten this

when they assume the taking D3 is good for people who actually do test

low in 25-D. A 23ng/ml level of D-25 is by no means low in any case.

best, P.B.

>

> I was told by my doctor today that my Vitamin D count is low at 23.

> This is down from 29. Normal range starts at 32. I have an undiagnosed

> autoimmune disease for which I am taking LDN. Does anyone know if

> there is an autoimmune disease associated with low vitamin D? If you

> are taking LDN, did this affect your Vitamin D count at all?

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Mercola has an online site that issues free health reports, very

informative. In one report he stated that of the two components of uv

radiation uva, and uvb, sunblock blocks both. Uvb radiation he stated

is responsible for the bodies production of vitamin D from sunlight.

If you go to his site, and look at the archives you can find a chart

that displays the various sunblock key ingredients, and the percentage

of uva, and uvb light that they block. This report is also good

because it's main purpose was to warn people of potentially harmful

sunscreen ingredients. Uva radiation is the component of sunlight

radiation that is the most harmful; since it can penetrate cloud cover,

and can even harm you when it's dark outside (typically during sunrise,

and sunset. This is the radiation that is the most important to block.

Another related fact is that people near the equator can generate upto

10'000 IU of Vit. D a day. My neurologist recommended for MS 1000 IU

of Vit. D a day, but under doctor's supervision they have experimented

with upto 4000 IU of Vit. D a day.

>

> Sun block does NOT block the skin from making vit. D. The best way

is to stay out of the sun, the next best is to cover up completely and

if that cannot be done then apply Ketoconazole cream to the exposed

areas.

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Sun block does NOT block the skin from making vit. D. The best

way

> is to stay out of the sun, the next best is to cover up completely

and

> if that cannot be done then apply Ketoconazole cream to the exposed

> areas.

> >

>

I thought I would add my two cents and perhaps settle this at the

same time. It would be very simple to say that yes, sunscreens almost

completely block out UVB rays so that we make very little vitamin D

in our skin, but it would be more interesting and fun to post this

link: www.uvadvantage.org/portals/0/pres/

See what Holick PhD, MD has to say about it. This is a very

entertaining and educational presentation about vitamin D at a

symposium in 2007.

[Guest guest]

I will be the first to admit that I am no researcher and have no data to prove what I stated about sunblock not stopping the body from producing vit. D. I was just regretting what I have read at the Marshall site. I could be completely wrong and that would be great to get another scientific opinion. I just want to educate others and myself of how to be protected from vit. D absorption if they have the same condition that I do.Thanks,Steve

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

I was the person who wrote the other day, about the MP not being solid science.

I wasn't trying to attack you. I just wanted to show that there is another side to this that they don't tell you at the MP website. Namely all the people who respond poorly.

If it is working for you, and it is for many, I am happy. I just wanted others to see that a positive outcome was not carved in stone, as much as they may suggest it is.

Please, no offense was meant.

In a message dated 7/20/2008 8:27:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sharessa1@... writes:

I will be the first to admit that I am no researcher and have no data to prove what I stated about sunblock not stopping the body from producing vit. D. I was just regretting what I have read at the Marshall site. I could be completely wrong and that would be great to get another scientific opinion. I just want to educate others and myself of how to be protected from vit. D absorption if they have the same condition that I do.Thanks,Steve Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

[Guest guest]

No offense taken. I know where you are coming from. The first thing all Dr's should remember is "Do No Harm", but that is not always the case and we have to be our own advocate and educate ourselves. It is ashame what each of us have to go through to try and get well. Thank God for the Internet and groups like this where like minded people can share their experiences so that we can learn from each other. Steve