Torn between Cutler Method or Dan Method of Chelation???

[Guest guest]

I am torn between doing chelation the slow method-aka " Cutler style "

every 3-4 hours low doses or

the Dan doctor style every 8 hours and higher doses? Let me know pro's

and con's. It seems there are recovery stories to support either way.

Let me know if anyone had side effect from 8 hours and higher doses??

So I am looking for pro's and con's of either way? Is one way faster

than the other??

Kay

[Guest guest]

When you start doing it you will see

side effects. My experience was that

there are fewer side effects with smaller,

more frequent doses.

High doses of DMSA caused fevers for us.

Those who

--- Kay <knorgren@...> wrote:

> I am torn between doing chelation the slow

> method-aka " Cutler style "

> every 3-4 hours low doses or

> the Dan doctor style every 8 hours and higher doses?

> Let me know pro's

> and con's. It seems there are recovery stories to

> support either way.

> Let me know if anyone had side effect from 8 hours

> and higher doses??

> So I am looking for pro's and con's of either way?

> Is one way faster

> than the other??

>

>

> Kay

>

>

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[Guest guest]

>

> I am torn between doing chelation the slow method-aka " Cutler style "

> every 3-4 hours low doses or

> the Dan doctor style every 8 hours and higher doses? Let me know pro's

> and con's. It seems there are recovery stories to support either way.

> Let me know if anyone had side effect from 8 hours and higher doses??

> So I am looking for pro's and con's of either way? Is one way faster

> than the other??

I did a combination. I used ALA only. I gave it 3x per day. I

started with lower doses but gradually increased to higher doses. All

four of my kids are fully chelated with this protocol, it took 2-1/4

years. I am about 1-1/2 years into the protocol for myself. For my

kids, the only negative I saw was yeast overgrowth. For me

personally, yeast and mineral depletion.

Dana

[Guest guest]

We are using Cutler protocol, and the rate of improvement in our

daughter is astounding, so far with no side effects or regression.

I don't think the DAN way is faster, because as soon as you start moving

more heavy metals than the body can process, then you get damage and

redistribution and you have to stop anyway.

Its probably a bit like the tortoise and the hare.

We all went looking for the easiest fastest way. We all shuddered at

the thought of waking up every 3 hours. We all looked for the easy

solution with no side effects.

But if a fast easy way really did exist, then there would be nothing to

debate, because EVERYONE would be doing it.

Maybe Boyd Haley's new chelator might go a long way to making things

easier and faster. But you don't have time to wait around for it.

So for now, in my opinion ALA with DMSA or DMPS, using Cutler's protocol

is miles ahead of any other chelation protocol.

You would do well to read the paper " The role of thiols, dithiols,

nutritional factors and interacting ligands in the toxicology of

mercury " by P.K. Rooney.

Cheers

Kay wrote:

>

> I am torn between doing chelation the slow method-aka " Cutler style "

> every 3-4 hours low doses or

> the Dan doctor style every 8 hours and higher doses? Let me know pro's

> and con's. It seems there are recovery stories to support either way.

> Let me know if anyone had side effect from 8 hours and higher doses??

> So I am looking for pro's and con's of either way? Is one way faster

> than the other??

>

> Kay

>

>

[Guest guest]

We started using Andy's method for almost 6 months, but had to stop

because it was just too exhausting for my household. Every 3 hrs round

the clock takes its toll; especially with two other small children in

the home and if the child you are chelating is a light sleeper. We saw

Dr. Cave back in October and started her protocol-which is once a

week; 500mg of DMSA. My son is doing great! I think either way is

going to be a process-don't choose one way over the other because it

is necessarily " faster " -do what works best for the child you are

chelating and your family's dynamics.

BTW, does anyone else chelate using Dr. Cave?

[Guest guest]

>

> So I am looking for pro's and con's of either way? Is one way faster

> than the other??

Hi Kay,

The DAN! protocol is a random set of modifications by committee to

Cutler's protocol, and was not constructed with safety as its primary

consideration. Safety as in not causing further unnecessary damage,

particularly neurological damage, and avoiding unnecessary miserable

side effects. Cutler's protocol was designed to minimize all of this.

For historical information on how the DAN! protocol came about, see

Cutler's posts on the DAN! protocol on this wiki page:

http://onibasu.com/wiki/Comments_on_other_protocols

under the section " DAN! Protocol, Dr. Amy Holmes "

Jay

[Guest guest]

Hi,just curious how often you give the DMSA.How do you give the 500 mg once a

week? Is it one day a week throughout the day or are you saying its a one time

dose? Thank you.

sarahghaleb <sarahghaleb@...> wrote: We started using Andy's

method for almost 6 months, but had to stop

because it was just too exhausting for my household. Every 3 hrs round

the clock takes its toll; especially with two other small children in

the home and if the child you are chelating is a light sleeper. We saw

Dr. Cave back in October and started her protocol-which is once a

week; 500mg of DMSA. My son is doing great! I think either way is

going to be a process-don't choose one way over the other because it

is necessarily " faster " -do what works best for the child you are

chelating and your family's dynamics.

BTW, does anyone else chelate using Dr. Cave?

[Guest guest]

Did you see any side effects? ineteresed if you can in knowing more about this

protocol??

<natbill7@...> wrote: Hi,just curious how often

you give the DMSA.How do you give the 500 mg once a week? Is it one day a week

throughout the day or are you saying its a one time dose? Thank you.

sarahghaleb <sarahghaleb@...> wrote: We started using Andy's method for

almost 6 months, but had to stop

because it was just too exhausting for my household. Every 3 hrs round

the clock takes its toll; especially with two other small children in

the home and if the child you are chelating is a light sleeper. We saw

Dr. Cave back in October and started her protocol-which is once a

week; 500mg of DMSA. My son is doing great! I think either way is

going to be a process-don't choose one way over the other because it

is necessarily " faster " -do what works best for the child you are

chelating and your family's dynamics.

BTW, does anyone else chelate using Dr. Cave?

[Guest guest]

>

> We saw

> Dr. Cave back in October and started her protocol-which is once a

> week; 500mg of DMSA. My son is doing great!

How much does your son weigh? Cutler wrote (back in 2006) that

Cave was forced to use a high dose (10mg/kg dosage as in the

PDR) to stay out of trouble with the medical licensing board after

they prosecuted her for writing her vaccine book.

Jay

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,just curious how often you give the DMSA.How do you give the 500

mg once a week? Is it one day a week throughout the day or are you

saying its a one time dose? Thank you.

--> It's a one-time dosage once a week of 500 mg of DMSA. We see the

usual side effects of the yeast beast, but as soon as we treat with

yeast cleanse and biotin, he's not any different than andy's protocol.

sarah

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > We saw

> > Dr. Cave back in October and started her protocol-which is once a

> > week; 500mg of DMSA. My son is doing great!

>

> How much does your son weigh? Cutler wrote (back in 2006) that

> Cave was forced to use a high dose (10mg/kg dosage as in the

> PDR) to stay out of trouble with the medical licensing board after

> they prosecuted her for writing her vaccine book.

>

> Jay

>

[Guest guest]

" Great " isn't a very quantitative description.

Realistically, if you use any random protocol somebody seems to do OK. Might be

one in a thousand, but of course that's who posts about it.

People who want a realistic chance their kid gets better instead of horribly

worse do need to chelate using a proper protocol, which for DMSA is every 4

hours or more often for at least 3 days, and at much lower dosage than this.

This is like the story I remember in the newspaper in the 1980's - some poor guy

got diagnosed with brain cancer, told the tumor was in a location that made it

inoperable, and sent home with some pain pills to die. He decided he didn't

want all the suffering so he shot himself in the head. The ambulance came and

got him, took him to the hospital, and not only did they save him, they

discovered he had blown the tumor out and was cancer free!

I always thought of this story as God making fun of the surgeon who told the guy

the tumor was inoperable. However it is a good story to consider for chelation

purposes. Who would have thought shooting this guy in the head would cure his

cancer and save his life? But it did. This does not mean that anyone ELSE with

an inoperable brain tumor would be well advised to shoot themselves in the head!

Just because it worked for one guy doesn't mean it has favorable odds.

So don't play russian roulette with your children - no dangerous, harmful and

inappropriate chelation protocols no matter what anyone says. Give them the

best chance they can have of getting better, and the greatest amount of progress

they are going to be able to realize through chelation. Do it right. Dose

adequately often to maintain constant blood levels.

Andy

www.noamalgam.com

www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

www.noamalgam.com/bioloticaltreatments.html

> > >

> > > We saw

> > > Dr. Cave back in October and started her protocol-which is once a

> > > week; 500mg of DMSA. My son is doing great!

> >

> > How much does your son weigh? Cutler wrote (back in 2006) that

> > Cave was forced to use a high dose (10mg/kg dosage as in the

> > PDR) to stay out of trouble with the medical licensing board after

> > they prosecuted her for writing her vaccine book.

> >

> > Jay

> >

>

[Guest guest]

We seem to get folks on here once in a while with wild claims, like the one

where raw milk cured her child of autism. They don't hang around too long. They

seem to have a craving for drama and confrontation.

Let me say that my boys have both been doing AC protocol chelation now for over

two years and are steadily recovering from a " Hopeless state of Mind and Body " .

I feel sorry for the parents that don't have enough compassion for their own

children to get up in the middle of the night three nights a week. For me it is

beyond comprehension, but then I love my children.

TJ

From: andrewhallcutler <AndyCutler@...>

Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 2:30 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Torn between " Cutler Method " or " Dan Method of

Chelation???

 

" Great " isn't a very quantitative description.

Realistically, if you use any random protocol somebody seems to do OK. Might be

one in a thousand, but of course that's who posts about it.

People who want a realistic chance their kid gets better instead of horribly

worse do need to chelate using a proper protocol, which for DMSA is every 4

hours or more often for at least 3 days, and at much lower dosage than this.

This is like the story I remember in the newspaper in the 1980's - some poor guy

got diagnosed with brain cancer, told the tumor was in a location that made it

inoperable, and sent home with some pain pills to die. He decided he didn't want

all the suffering so he shot himself in the head. The ambulance came and got

him, took him to the hospital, and not only did they save him, they discovered

he had blown the tumor out and was cancer free!

I always thought of this story as God making fun of the surgeon who told the guy

the tumor was inoperable. However it is a good story to consider for chelation

purposes. Who would have thought shooting this guy in the head would cure his

cancer and save his life? But it did. This does not mean that anyone ELSE with

an inoperable brain tumor would be well advised to shoot themselves in the head!

Just because it worked for one guy doesn't mean it has favorable odds.

So don't play russian roulette with your children - no dangerous, harmful and

inappropriate chelation protocols no matter what anyone says. Give them the best

chance they can have of getting better, and the greatest amount of progress they

are going to be able to realize through chelation. Do it right. Dose adequately

often to maintain constant blood levels.

Andy

www.noamalgam.com

www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

www.noamalgam.com/bioloticaltreatments.html

> > >

> > > We saw

> > > Dr. Cave back in October and started her protocol-which is once a

> > > week; 500mg of DMSA. My son is doing great!

> >

> > How much does your son weigh? Cutler wrote (back in 2006) that

> > Cave was forced to use a high dose (10mg/kg dosage as in the

> > PDR) to stay out of trouble with the medical licensing board after

> > they prosecuted her for writing her vaccine book.

> >

> > Jay

> >

>

[Guest guest]

DAN protocol makes the child worse. DO NOT DO IT. I've been there, done that. It

is my biggest regret. Deb

> >

> > So I am looking for pro's and con's of either way? Is one way faster

> > than the other??

>

> Hi Kay,

>

> The DAN! protocol is a random set of modifications by committee to

> Cutler's protocol, and was not constructed with safety as its primary

> consideration. Safety as in not causing further unnecessary damage,

> particularly neurological damage, and avoiding unnecessary miserable

> side effects. Cutler's protocol was designed to minimize all of this.

>

> For historical information on how the DAN! protocol came about, see

> Cutler's posts on the DAN! protocol on this wiki page:

>

> http://onibasu.com/wiki/Comments_on_other_protocols

> under the section " DAN! Protocol, Dr. Amy Holmes "

>

> Jay

>

[Guest guest]

Andy and all,

My son is going through a detox right now, but step 4 will be detoxamin

suppositories 2 or 3x a week. my son is 23.

This is a detox program put together by our doc. His protocol is step one -

clean the liver - then step 2, 3, 4 etc. He detoxes the body in stages. Last

step is zeolite.

Andy, can you speak to the positives and negatives of detoxamin suppositories

versus your ALA protocol as I would like to dicuss w/ our doc on next visit. I

just want my son totally recovered - like all of the other parents in the forum.

Any comments are greatly appreciated and will weigh heavily with us. I will

fight until he is recovered! Lin

> > > >

> > > > We saw

> > > > Dr. Cave back in October and started her protocol-which is once a

> > > > week; 500mg of DMSA. My son is doing great!

> > >

> > > How much does your son weigh? Cutler wrote (back in 2006) that

> > > Cave was forced to use a high dose (10mg/kg dosage as in the

> > > PDR) to stay out of trouble with the medical licensing board after

> > > they prosecuted her for writing her vaccine book.

> > >

> > > Jay

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What is more appealing about the DAN! protocol, besides not getting up at night

to give your child a dose?

More $$$, more doctor visits, higher doses, riskier admission of drugs (IV),

more supplements, 'guinea pig' status (always wanting you to try the latest and

greatest supplements)...

I guess it is nice to think you have a doctor who has your back and is doing all

the work for you, but that is often not the case. Many of us only come to this

conclusion after spending a few years under the care of a DAN! doctor.

DAN! protocol isn't any faster. I'm not hearing about hundreds of kids

recovering quickly with DAN! doctors. In fact, I haven't heard much at all

these days from DAN! about recovering kids. I suppose I don't follow them much

anymore.

Dumping toxins at too rapid of a rate will unnecessarily tax your kidneys, your

liver and perhaps other vital organs. It isn't worth it, and won't reverse

symptoms any faster than low dose/frequent dosing (Cutler). In fact, you might

gain new negative symptoms.

Good luck with your decision.

Pam

> >

> > So I am looking for pro's and con's of either way? Is one way faster

> > than the other??

>

> Hi Kay,

>

> The DAN! protocol is a random set of modifications by committee to

> Cutler's protocol, and was not constructed with safety as its primary

> consideration. Safety as in not causing further unnecessary damage,

> particularly neurological damage, and avoiding unnecessary miserable

> side effects. Cutler's protocol was designed to minimize all of this.

>

> For historical information on how the DAN! protocol came about, see

> Cutler's posts on the DAN! protocol on this wiki page:

>

> http://onibasu.com/wiki/Comments_on_other_protocols

> under the section " DAN! Protocol, Dr. Amy Holmes "

>

> Jay

>

[Guest guest]

Lin,

Like the other mom who said, " been there;done that, " we have too. We spent

years and TONS of money doing DAN. We got talked into IV chelation and it

made my son worse. He had respiratory reactions. Very scary. The SID,OCD,

stimming and anxiety that were nearly gone came back with a vengeance.

The saddest part of all was that I found this group when my son was three

and had every chance to listen to Andy and Moria back then and didn't do it.

I can't let myself think too much about the past as it doesn't help the

future.

We are getting ready for round 14 of AC, but this could have been long

behind us if I had listened back then. My son improved a greaqt deal on

diet and metabolic supports (vitmains, minerals, amino acids), but this

still did not do enough to get the mercury and lead out of his body. I

think if we had done AC starting back then, our son would be recovered by

now.

Don't waste your time and money on DAN. DAN pretty much broke us. Then

when things got worse instead of better, the DAN's suggestion was to then go

to psychotropics and to continue doing IV even though he had reactions to it

-- then he just wanted to give him oral steroids too. I'd go to a DAN if

they would just do the testing I want, but I have found all these doctors

just want to push their own protocol and take your $$$$.

I am hoping that you will consider AC. My son's immune system was damaged

after vaccination, and he was sick with a fever every two weeks until a few

months ago. He has had pneumonia eight times since regression, countless

bouts of bronchitis, upper respiratory infections, and could not even fight

the bacteria that gets introduced when an insect bites him. He would

develop radiating staph from each and every bite site. These infecitons

precipitated him being put on antibiotics all the time -- which was not good

either.

He was diagnosed with chronic asthma, and he was put on all kids of meds for

that. Once they put him on oral steroids and he had a psychotic episode.

Thirteen weeks ago we started the AC Protocl, and my son has not been sick

once and has had no fever. He has only needed his rescue inhaler four times

and probably only becasue I shouldhvae been giving him more ACE for adrenal

support. Since I raised his ACE, he has not even needed his rescue inhaler

at all. No asthma meds! This is the longest my son has gone without being

put on antibiotics since prior to age fifteen months. He is now eleven.

We were getting no where with DAN except broke. I see many positives with

AC. I do see increased stimming at times, but this could be metals moving

around or yeast. I am learning how to balance his supplements. It is not a

smooth ride. There are ups and downs but great hopes for the future. This

protocl requires you dose around the clock. It is a slight inconveneience

when now we have a son who can breathe and is now evidently less prone to

infection.

I would imagine if you talk to your DAN about it, he will try to steer you

away from AC -- not much money for him to make if you do AC. I know because

we tried to get our DAN on board with it, but he pushed for his way and

said, " Well, just leave the metals in there then. " Well, that was it for us

with him, and here we are and our son is getting better.

After we have done 300 rounds on AC, I'm going to take my son back there for

a visit:)

[Guest guest]

Listen to Andy on this. In my really toxic early days, even when I was using

Andy's protocol on my own son, and in denial about my own toxicity, I took a

multi with a high dose of ALA in it once a day for a number of months. I too

felt " great " and said to myself see, if I were toxic, I would be a mess, but I

can take ALA once a day in a high dose and be great, or at the very least I was

just a " little toxic " or was one of those that the rules did not apply to.

WRONG!! See toxicity does not allow for good judgment or good decision making it

seems...

Several months later, I was in an extreme state of fatigue, had brain fog, was

flying off the handle, could not function. I did a saliva test - I was in a

horrible state of adrenal fatigue, my hormones were a mess etc. I had total

body aches etc. I had just slammed a bunch more Hg into my brain. I hair tested

myself and had hair Hg in the red! I was extremely toxic and had just made

myself unutterably worse. But see, it was a cumulative effect, at first I too

did what you would call " great " - and then the bottom fell out. So even if there

are folks out there who do ok on these unsafe protocols, I wonder, how long can

they do well? Can they ever recover this way? Somehow I think not...this would

not be a chance I would ever want to take with my child.

Irene

> > > >

> > > > We saw

> > > > Dr. Cave back in October and started her protocol-which is once a

> > > > week; 500mg of DMSA. My son is doing great!

> > >

> > > How much does your son weigh? Cutler wrote (back in 2006) that

> > > Cave was forced to use a high dose (10mg/kg dosage as in the

> > > PDR) to stay out of trouble with the medical licensing board after

> > > they prosecuted her for writing her vaccine book.

> > >

> > > Jay

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This is a very bad idea. If he's 23 why is he getting suppositories anyway?

Anyone with an mouth who is able to swallow does not need suppository chelators.

The DAN myth about avoiding the gut and reducing yeast simply is not true.

Zeolites are expensive dirt...they do not chelate metals.

I wouldn't discuss pros and cons with the doc, I'd fire him and get Andy's book.

EDTA is very bad for mercury poisoning. It does not remove mercury and depletes

some minerals.

I don't know how long you've been doing this regimen but I'd stop it now and if

you haven't started the Detoxamin...consider this a blessing and don't. Not

until you read more about AC chelation and why it's bad to use that stuff.

liver cleanse are bad for mercury toxic people, they are very stressful.

if you want him recovered, the ONLY way is frequent low dose chelation.

http://onibasu.com/wiki/EDTA

http://onibasu.com/wiki/Different_chelation_agents

http://onibasu.com/wiki/Autism_Mercury

Jan

#117 rounds and going

> > > > >

> > > > > We saw

> > > > > Dr. Cave back in October and started her protocol-which is once a

> > > > > week; 500mg of DMSA. My son is doing great!

> > > >

> > > > How much does your son weigh? Cutler wrote (back in 2006) that

> > > > Cave was forced to use a high dose (10mg/kg dosage as in the

> > > > PDR) to stay out of trouble with the medical licensing board after

> > > > they prosecuted her for writing her vaccine book.

> > > >

> > > > Jay

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hello

I just want to confirm

Im doing ALA 6.25and DMSA 3mg every 3h is that ok or i should up DMSA and 6.25

ALA my son is 50pounds.

Thanks Ralitsa

>

> Lin,

>

> Like the other mom who said, " been there;done that, " we have too. We spent

> years and TONS of money doing DAN. We got talked into IV chelation and it

> made my son worse. He had respiratory reactions. Very scary. The SID,OCD,

> stimming and anxiety that were nearly gone came back with a vengeance.

>

> The saddest part of all was that I found this group when my son was three

> and had every chance to listen to Andy and Moria back then and didn't do it.

> I can't let myself think too much about the past as it doesn't help the

> future.

>

> We are getting ready for round 14 of AC, but this could have been long

> behind us if I had listened back then. My son improved a greaqt deal on

> diet and metabolic supports (vitmains, minerals, amino acids), but this

> still did not do enough to get the mercury and lead out of his body. I

> think if we had done AC starting back then, our son would be recovered by

> now.

>

> Don't waste your time and money on DAN. DAN pretty much broke us. Then

> when things got worse instead of better, the DAN's suggestion was to then go

> to psychotropics and to continue doing IV even though he had reactions to it

> -- then he just wanted to give him oral steroids too. I'd go to a DAN if

> they would just do the testing I want, but I have found all these doctors

> just want to push their own protocol and take your $$$$.

>

> I am hoping that you will consider AC. My son's immune system was damaged

> after vaccination, and he was sick with a fever every two weeks until a few

> months ago. He has had pneumonia eight times since regression, countless

> bouts of bronchitis, upper respiratory infections, and could not even fight

> the bacteria that gets introduced when an insect bites him. He would

> develop radiating staph from each and every bite site. These infecitons

> precipitated him being put on antibiotics all the time -- which was not good

> either.

>

> He was diagnosed with chronic asthma, and he was put on all kids of meds for

> that. Once they put him on oral steroids and he had a psychotic episode.

>

> Thirteen weeks ago we started the AC Protocl, and my son has not been sick

> once and has had no fever. He has only needed his rescue inhaler four times

> and probably only becasue I shouldhvae been giving him more ACE for adrenal

> support. Since I raised his ACE, he has not even needed his rescue inhaler

> at all. No asthma meds! This is the longest my son has gone without being

> put on antibiotics since prior to age fifteen months. He is now eleven.

>

> We were getting no where with DAN except broke. I see many positives with

> AC. I do see increased stimming at times, but this could be metals moving

> around or yeast. I am learning how to balance his supplements. It is not a

> smooth ride. There are ups and downs but great hopes for the future. This

> protocl requires you dose around the clock. It is a slight inconveneience

> when now we have a son who can breathe and is now evidently less prone to

> infection.

>

> I would imagine if you talk to your DAN about it, he will try to steer you

> away from AC -- not much money for him to make if you do AC. I know because

> we tried to get our DAN on board with it, but he pushed for his way and

> said, " Well, just leave the metals in there then. " Well, that was it for us

> with him, and here we are and our son is getting better.

>

> After we have done 300 rounds on AC, I'm going to take my son back there for

> a visit:)

>

>

>