Guest guest Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I would like to do frequent does ALA on my son without the DMSA. 3 days on/4days off. Are there any problems that might occur doing this route? Also, I'm *really* having a hard time keeping yeast at bay. When I give higher doses of GSE, it seems to be more controlled. I'm just worried about his liver because GSE is supposed be hard on the liver. I also started giving high doses of biotin and I guess that takes time to work. Being all chelators are sulfur based and yeast just love sulfur, is it recommended to increase the GSE even more? I give Kirkmans GSE, 6 caps spread out through the day... do you think more GSE during chelation days are okay? Lastly, I bought some Gaia Milk Thistle and was wondering the dosage for a 4.5 year old, 36 lbs.? Thanks for the help, Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 What are the positives and negatives with just frequent dose ALA vs. frequent dose ALA with DMSA? Pam -- In , " andrewhallcutler " <AndyCutler@...> wrote: > > > > > > I would like to do frequent does ALA on my son without the DMSA. 3 > > days on/4days off. Are there any problems that might occur doing > > this route? > > No more or less than when using both DMSA and ALA together. > > Andy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 DMSA is good for removing lead, ALA is not. So if lead is an issue, keeping DMSA in at least every so often is important. Some people find that using DMSA or DMPS with ALA cuts down the side effects from chelation. That is true for us, though it has been a while since I have tried just ALA. DMSA is a tougher on the liver than ALA. In fact, ALA, used properly, is good for the liver. >>>I am sure others will add to the list. > > > > > > I would like to do frequent does ALA on my son without the > DMSA. 3 > > > days on/4days off. Are there any problems that might occur > doing > > > this route? > > > > No more or less than when using both DMSA and ALA together. > > > > Andy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Pam, I had trouble with yeast too. Have you tried biotin and magnesium in the chelator (if you make pills) and Candex plus a couple probiotics every morning? This is what I am doing and last round it worked well. > > I would like to do frequent does ALA on my son without the DMSA. 3 > days on/4days off. Are there any problems that might occur doing > this route? > > Also, I'm *really* having a hard time keeping yeast at bay. When I > give higher doses of GSE, it seems to be more controlled. I'm just > worried about his liver because GSE is supposed be hard on the > liver. I also started giving high doses of biotin and I guess that > takes time to work. > > Being all chelators are sulfur based and yeast just love sulfur, is > it recommended to increase the GSE even more? I give Kirkmans GSE, > 6 caps spread out through the day... do you think more GSE during > chelation days are okay? > > Lastly, I bought some Gaia Milk Thistle and was wondering the dosage > for a 4.5 year old, 36 lbs.? > > Thanks for the help, > > Pam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Thanks for the reply. If this is the case, I'm assuming there would be no problem starting with ALA, then adding DMSA later? How does DMSA cut down on the side effects of chelation? I was under the impression that DMSA has huge side effects on its' own? Thanks Pam > > > > > > > > I would like to do frequent does ALA on my son without the > > DMSA. 3 > > > > days on/4days off. Are there any problems that might occur > > doing > > > > this route? > > > > > > No more or less than when using both DMSA and ALA together. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Hi , Sounds like a good combination. I'll try it. How much biotin do you give (my son is 36 lbs.); and how long did the biotin take to work on the yeast? What's the ratio of Mg to Biotin? I use Klaire Labs Therbiotic Complete- 1/8 tsp. am and pm... does that sound like it's enough? Thanks so much, Pam > > > > I would like to do frequent does ALA on my son without the DMSA. 3 > > days on/4days off. Are there any problems that might occur doing > > this route? > > > > Also, I'm *really* having a hard time keeping yeast at bay. When I > > give higher doses of GSE, it seems to be more controlled. I'm just > > worried about his liver because GSE is supposed be hard on the > > liver. I also started giving high doses of biotin and I guess that > > takes time to work. > > > > Being all chelators are sulfur based and yeast just love sulfur, is > > it recommended to increase the GSE even more? I give Kirkmans GSE, > > 6 caps spread out through the day... do you think more GSE during > > chelation days are okay? > > > > Lastly, I bought some Gaia Milk Thistle and was wondering the > dosage > > for a 4.5 year old, 36 lbs.? > > > > Thanks for the help, > > > > Pam > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Hi Pam, I give about .25-.5mg biotin(split a 5mg capsule into about 10-15 doses) It's a really small amount, but it's in every chelator and we do 2 1/2 hours apart during the day and 3 at night. For the magnesium, it's about 3 times as much as the biotin. My son is 47 lbs. and our ALA dosage is 6-7mg per dose. Things were a lot better with the Candex because he didn't experience the die-off all the time like before. I think you should double the probiotics when you start chelating (or a few days before). My son takes about 3-4 capsules per day. I don't think the biotin is enough on it's own to work on the yeast, but all I know is the combination I have now seems to be working. > > > > > > I would like to do frequent does ALA on my son without the > DMSA. 3 > > > days on/4days off. Are there any problems that might occur > doing > > > this route? > > > > > > Also, I'm *really* having a hard time keeping yeast at bay. > When I > > > give higher doses of GSE, it seems to be more controlled. I'm > just > > > worried about his liver because GSE is supposed be hard on the > > > liver. I also started giving high doses of biotin and I guess > that > > > takes time to work. > > > > > > Being all chelators are sulfur based and yeast just love sulfur, > is > > > it recommended to increase the GSE even more? I give Kirkmans > GSE, > > > 6 caps spread out through the day... do you think more GSE > during > > > chelation days are okay? > > > > > > Lastly, I bought some Gaia Milk Thistle and was wondering the > > dosage > > > for a 4.5 year old, 36 lbs.? > > > > > > Thanks for the help, > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 , I give about 16 mg of Biotin per day (4 mg 4x/day). Doesn't seem to be working, but I thought it might just take some time. Not sure. I'll order some candex and give it a try. ALA dosage- I guess for my 35 lb. son, I'll start out with 4-5 mg./day. What brand are you using? I have Kirkman, but the dosage is high. Would be nice to find 5 mg. capsules. I'll try your yeast cocktail and see how it goes.. .thanks so much for the help!! Pam > > > > > > > > I would like to do frequent does ALA on my son without the > > DMSA. 3 > > > > days on/4days off. Are there any problems that might occur > > doing > > > > this route? > > > > > > > > Also, I'm *really* having a hard time keeping yeast at bay. > > When I > > > > give higher doses of GSE, it seems to be more controlled. I'm > > just > > > > worried about his liver because GSE is supposed be hard on the > > > > liver. I also started giving high doses of biotin and I guess > > that > > > > takes time to work. > > > > > > > > Being all chelators are sulfur based and yeast just love > sulfur, > > is > > > > it recommended to increase the GSE even more? I give Kirkmans > > GSE, > > > > 6 caps spread out through the day... do you think more GSE > > during > > > > chelation days are okay? > > > > > > > > Lastly, I bought some Gaia Milk Thistle and was wondering the > > > dosage > > > > for a 4.5 year old, 36 lbs.? > > > > > > > > Thanks for the help, > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I use Doctor's Best ALA, but Andy says pretty much any brand is okay to use. Mine is 35mg capsule and I split it into 5 or 6 doses. I have a 10 year old and 5 year old and they're okay with 6-7mg ALA per dose. I started doing 2 1/2 hours apart because I noticed some discomfort in my younger one with 3 hours apart - he has a high metabolism, so 2 1/2 has been working well for us. > > > > > > > > > > I would like to do frequent does ALA on my son without the > > > DMSA. 3 > > > > > days on/4days off. Are there any problems that might occur > > > doing > > > > > this route? > > > > > > > > > > Also, I'm *really* having a hard time keeping yeast at bay. > > > When I > > > > > give higher doses of GSE, it seems to be more controlled. > I'm > > > just > > > > > worried about his liver because GSE is supposed be hard on > the > > > > > liver. I also started giving high doses of biotin and I > guess > > > that > > > > > takes time to work. > > > > > > > > > > Being all chelators are sulfur based and yeast just love > > sulfur, > > > is > > > > > it recommended to increase the GSE even more? I give > Kirkmans > > > GSE, > > > > > 6 caps spread out through the day... do you think more GSE > > > during > > > > > chelation days are okay? > > > > > > > > > > Lastly, I bought some Gaia Milk Thistle and was wondering > the > > > > dosage > > > > > for a 4.5 year old, 36 lbs.? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the help, > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 , You may not need to lower the dose. Since the Epsom salt baths calmed him and your mag was lower than recommended this is likely the source of the trouble. It's hard not to jump to the conclusion that every single little thing is yeast, it sometimes requires more careful thought, which you were able to provide. > > > > > > Hello - > > > > > > We are using ALA to chelate our 3.5 yo son, (40 lbs). We just finished Round 2, and want to make sure that we are using the correct protocol for him. He's been on the GFCF diet(and egg, peanut, soy, and dairy free)for about 6 months. > > > > > > We start chelation on Friday afternoons and go until Monday morning, using 5 mg of ALA every 3 hrs. We give epsom salt baths every " on " day, and almost every " off " day. > > > > > > We are supplementing: > > > Zinc 60 mg (in 2-3 doses) > > > Vit C 1000 mg (2 doses) > > > Calcium w/Mag Citrate 150 mg > > > Biotin 20-25 mg (4-5 doses) > > > Milk Thistle 250-350 mg (2-3 doses) > > > No-Fenol (as needed) > > > Probiotics 30 billion cells(2 doses- wakeup and bedtime) > > > > > > Adding Vit E and Selenium (one at a time) over the next few weeks. > > > > > > During Round 1, he was x3 - more stimming and more agressive, but was lucid at times and retained the little speech he does have. The first off day was horrible. Lots of crying, stimming and head banging - lasted off and on for 5 hours. The rest of the week went fine and he even seemed to branch out with his food choices. > > > > > > Same reaction on Round 2 (except a lot more lucid and some solid BMs=)). Today was the first off day this round - he did well all day until 4 pm, and then he had a meltdown and was banging his head like crazy. > > > > > > We gave him an epsom salt bath, and he is now calm. > > > > > > Is this reaction what should be expected from a proper dose schedule? > > > Both the first and second round were a 5 mg dose (1/8th mg per lb). > > > Should we reduce/increase dosage? To what? > > > > > > Though I am confident that we are on the right path for , I could use some reassurance (especially in times like these when he wants to bang his head on the floor). > > > > > > Thank you so much, > > > > > > H. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 , My son is 3 years older, but only 3 pounds heavier! And this is the first time since he regressed he has any " meat " on his bones and doesn't look like he is truly starving to death. We too use ALA, 5mg. We are on round 14 or so - we do 3 days on, and either 4 or 11 off, usually. We do try to do 3 out of 5 weekends I can't do more often - it's too tiring - I started homeschooling this year and I'm trying to fix up an old house to move. We see the same thing sometimes -on round my kid is usually really great. The day after it ends - he's a horrid nightmare. The only thing that gets me through some Mondays are that he has OT and therapeutic swimming. We go from Thursday AM to Sunday evening. This past Monday after his round he scratched my face and destroyed my glasses in a rage - why? He got awake that way. I do know this: he is much better when I increase ACE (adrenal support). That made a huge difference. I also used a homeopathic remedy for adrenal support and that helped right away. (NO mint toothpaste or tea). We supplement similarly. I give more mag (about 450 mg per day divided into 4 doses, and not with Calcium). I give taurine (250mg)2x per day, too. Careful with vit E - really hard to find one not derived from soy - and most are. I just received one that I have high hopes for - haven't tried it yet. We also supplement coconut oil. What are you doing for yeast protocol? Usually if I crank up the GSE over the chelation round, we can keep yeast under control and things aren't so bad the day after the round ends. I'm curious to see what others recommend, as I don't feel I quite have a grip on this myself, though overall we've seen major positives since we began chelation, and small gains after each round. > > Hello - > > We are using ALA to chelate our 3.5 yo son, (40 lbs). We just finished Round 2, and want to make sure that we are using the correct protocol for him. He's been on the GFCF diet(and egg, peanut, soy, and dairy free)for about 6 months. > > We start chelation on Friday afternoons and go until Monday morning, using 5 mg of ALA every 3 hrs. We give epsom salt baths every " on " day, and almost every " off " day. > > We are supplementing: > Zinc 60 mg (in 2-3 doses) > Vit C 1000 mg (2 doses) > Calcium w/Mag Citrate 150 mg > Biotin 20-25 mg (4-5 doses) > Milk Thistle 250-350 mg (2-3 doses) > No-Fenol (as needed) > Probiotics 30 billion cells(2 doses- wakeup and bedtime) > > Adding Vit E and Selenium (one at a time) over the next few weeks. > > During Round 1, he was x3 - more stimming and more agressive, but was lucid at times and retained the little speech he does have. The first off day was horrible. Lots of crying, stimming and head banging - lasted off and on for 5 hours. The rest of the week went fine and he even seemed to branch out with his food choices. > > Same reaction on Round 2 (except a lot more lucid and some solid BMs=)). Today was the first off day this round - he did well all day until 4 pm, and then he had a meltdown and was banging his head like crazy. > > We gave him an epsom salt bath, and he is now calm. > > Is this reaction what should be expected from a proper dose schedule? > Both the first and second round were a 5 mg dose (1/8th mg per lb). > Should we reduce/increase dosage? To what? > > Though I am confident that we are on the right path for , I could use some reassurance (especially in times like these when he wants to bang his head on the floor). > > Thank you so much, > > H. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Got Vit e from Kirkman lab, doesn't contain soy. My peanut/soy nt food allergy guy is doing just fine on it. No issues. Tammy [ ] Re: ALA chelation , My son is 3 years older, but only 3 pounds heavier! And this is the first time since he regressed he has any " meat " on his bones and doesn't look like he is truly starving to death. We too use ALA, 5mg. We are on round 14 or so - we do 3 days on, and either 4 or 11 off, usually. We do try to do 3 out of 5 weekends I can't do more often - it's too tiring - I started homeschooling this year and I'm trying to fix up an old house to move. We see the same thing sometimes -on round my kid is usually really great. The day after it ends - he's a horrid nightmare. The only thing that gets me through some Mondays are that he has OT and therapeutic swimming. We go from Thursday AM to Sunday evening. This past Monday after his round he scratched my face and destroyed my glasses in a rage - why? He got awake that way. I do know this: he is much better when I increase ACE (adrenal support). That made a huge difference. I also used a homeopathic remedy for adrenal support and that helped right away. (NO mint toothpaste or tea). We supplement similarly. I give more mag (about 450 mg per day divided into 4 doses, and not with Calcium). I give taurine (250mg)2x per day, too. Careful with vit E - really hard to find one not derived from soy - and most are. I just received one that I have high hopes for - haven't tried it yet. We also supplement coconut oil. What are you doing for yeast protocol? Usually if I crank up the GSE over the chelation round, we can keep yeast under control and things aren't so bad the day after the round ends. I'm curious to see what others recommend, as I don't feel I quite have a grip on this myself, though overall we've seen major positives since we began chelation, and small gains after each round. > > Hello - > > We are using ALA to chelate our 3.5 yo son, (40 lbs). We just finished Round 2, and want to make sure that we are using the correct protocol for him. He's been on the GFCF diet(and egg, peanut, soy, and dairy free)for about 6 months. > > We start chelation on Friday afternoons and go until Monday morning, using 5 mg of ALA every 3 hrs. We give epsom salt baths every " on " day, and almost every " off " day. > > We are supplementing: > Zinc 60 mg (in 2-3 doses) > Vit C 1000 mg (2 doses) > Calcium w/Mag Citrate 150 mg > Biotin 20-25 mg (4-5 doses) > Milk Thistle 250-350 mg (2-3 doses) > No-Fenol (as needed) > Probiotics 30 billion cells(2 doses- wakeup and bedtime) > > Adding Vit E and Selenium (one at a time) over the next few weeks. > > During Round 1, he was x3 - more stimming and more agressive, but was lucid at times and retained the little speech he does have. The first off day was horrible. Lots of crying, stimming and head banging - lasted off and on for 5 hours. The rest of the week went fine and he even seemed to branch out with his food choices. > > Same reaction on Round 2 (except a lot more lucid and some solid BMs=)). Today was the first off day this round - he did well all day until 4 pm, and then he had a meltdown and was banging his head like crazy. > > We gave him an epsom salt bath, and he is now calm. > > Is this reaction what should be expected from a proper dose schedule? > Both the first and second round were a 5 mg dose (1/8th mg per lb). > Should we reduce/increase dosage? To what? > > Though I am confident that we are on the right path for , I could use some reassurance (especially in times like these when he wants to bang his head on the floor). > > Thank you so much, > > H. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Thank you, . We've increased the mag and are increasing his yeast protocol - hopefully we'll see less of the headbanging going forward. Thanks again, H. > > > > > > > > Hello - > > > > > > > > We are using ALA to chelate our 3.5 yo son, (40 lbs). We just finished Round 2, and want to make sure that we are using the correct protocol for him. He's been on the GFCF diet(and egg, peanut, soy, and dairy free)for about 6 months. > > > > > > > > We start chelation on Friday afternoons and go until Monday morning, using 5 mg of ALA every 3 hrs. We give epsom salt baths every " on " day, and almost every " off " day. > > > > > > > > We are supplementing: > > > > Zinc 60 mg (in 2-3 doses) > > > > Vit C 1000 mg (2 doses) > > > > Calcium w/Mag Citrate 150 mg > > > > Biotin 20-25 mg (4-5 doses) > > > > Milk Thistle 250-350 mg (2-3 doses) > > > > No-Fenol (as needed) > > > > Probiotics 30 billion cells(2 doses- wakeup and bedtime) > > > > > > > > Adding Vit E and Selenium (one at a time) over the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > During Round 1, he was x3 - more stimming and more agressive, but was lucid at times and retained the little speech he does have. The first off day was horrible. Lots of crying, stimming and head banging - lasted off and on for 5 hours. The rest of the week went fine and he even seemed to branch out with his food choices. > > > > > > > > Same reaction on Round 2 (except a lot more lucid and some solid BMs=)). Today was the first off day this round - he did well all day until 4 pm, and then he had a meltdown and was banging his head like crazy. > > > > > > > > We gave him an epsom salt bath, and he is now calm. > > > > > > > > Is this reaction what should be expected from a proper dose schedule? > > > > Both the first and second round were a 5 mg dose (1/8th mg per lb). > > > > Should we reduce/increase dosage? To what? > > > > > > > > Though I am confident that we are on the right path for , I could use some reassurance (especially in times like these when he wants to bang his head on the floor). > > > > > > > > Thank you so much, > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Thanks . We will try GSE with No-Fenol, and keep up the biotin. I increased the mag citrate. Thanks again, H. > > > > > > > > Hello - > > > > > > > > We are using ALA to chelate our 3.5 yo son, (40 lbs). We just finished Round 2, and want to make sure that we are using the correct protocol for him. He's been on the GFCF diet(and egg, peanut, soy, and dairy free)for about 6 months. > > > > > > > > We start chelation on Friday afternoons and go until Monday morning, using 5 mg of ALA every 3 hrs. We give epsom salt baths every " on " day, and almost every " off " day. > > > > > > > > We are supplementing: > > > > Zinc 60 mg (in 2-3 doses) > > > > Vit C 1000 mg (2 doses) > > > > Calcium w/Mag Citrate 150 mg > > > > Biotin 20-25 mg (4-5 doses) > > > > Milk Thistle 250-350 mg (2-3 doses) > > > > No-Fenol (as needed) > > > > Probiotics 30 billion cells(2 doses- wakeup and bedtime) > > > > > > > > Adding Vit E and Selenium (one at a time) over the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > During Round 1, he was x3 - more stimming and more agressive, but was lucid at times and retained the little speech he does have. The first off day was horrible. Lots of crying, stimming and head banging - lasted off and on for 5 hours. The rest of the week went fine and he even seemed to branch out with his food choices. > > > > > > > > Same reaction on Round 2 (except a lot more lucid and some solid BMs=)). Today was the first off day this round - he did well all day until 4 pm, and then he had a meltdown and was banging his head like crazy. > > > > > > > > We gave him an epsom salt bath, and he is now calm. > > > > > > > > Is this reaction what should be expected from a proper dose schedule? > > > > Both the first and second round were a 5 mg dose (1/8th mg per lb). > > > > Should we reduce/increase dosage? To what? > > > > > > > > Though I am confident that we are on the right path for , I could use some reassurance (especially in times like these when he wants to bang his head on the floor). > > > > > > > > Thank you so much, > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 - what brand of vitamin e are you trying (not derived from soy)? > > > > > > Hello - > > > > > > We are using ALA to chelate our 3.5 yo son, (40 lbs). We just finished Round 2, and want to make sure that we are using the correct protocol for him. He's been on the GFCF diet(and egg, peanut, soy, and dairy free)for about 6 months. > > > > > > We start chelation on Friday afternoons and go until Monday morning, using 5 mg of ALA every 3 hrs. We give epsom salt baths every " on " day, and almost every " off " day. > > > > > > We are supplementing: > > > Zinc 60 mg (in 2-3 doses) > > > Vit C 1000 mg (2 doses) > > > Calcium w/Mag Citrate 150 mg > > > Biotin 20-25 mg (4-5 doses) > > > Milk Thistle 250-350 mg (2-3 doses) > > > No-Fenol (as needed) > > > Probiotics 30 billion cells(2 doses- wakeup and bedtime) > > > > > > Adding Vit E and Selenium (one at a time) over the next few weeks. > > > > > > During Round 1, he was x3 - more stimming and more agressive, but was lucid at times and retained the little speech he does have. The first off day was horrible. Lots of crying, stimming and head banging - lasted off and on for 5 hours. The rest of the week went fine and he even seemed to branch out with his food choices. > > > > > > Same reaction on Round 2 (except a lot more lucid and some solid BMs=)). Today was the first off day this round - he did well all day until 4 pm, and then he had a meltdown and was banging his head like crazy. > > > > > > We gave him an epsom salt bath, and he is now calm. > > > > > > Is this reaction what should be expected from a proper dose schedule? > > > Both the first and second round were a 5 mg dose (1/8th mg per lb). > > > Should we reduce/increase dosage? To what? > > > > > > Though I am confident that we are on the right path for , I could use some reassurance (especially in times like these when he wants to bang his head on the floor). > > > > > > Thank you so much, > > > > > > H. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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