What form of Molybdenum to use

[Guest guest]

I chelate my son using oral ALA/DMSA and find excessive sulfur in his urine from

time to time. What form of Molybdenum can be best absorbed, utilized by the

body, and most effective in detoxifying sulfites or any sulfur byproducts?

Thank you.

Limin

[Guest guest]

>

> I chelate my son using oral ALA/DMSA and find excessive sulfur in

his urine

> from time to time. What form of Molybdenum can be best absorbed,

utilized

> by the body, and most effective in detoxifying sulfites or any sulfur

> byproducts? Thank you.

>

> Limin

>

[Guest guest]

You may not need anything to remove the sulfur--as your son's kidneys appear to

be doing it for him--hence the sulfur in urine. It may actually be a sign that

he is on TOO much DMSA for his body to handle

How do you know btw--the odor?? or do you test for it--which would be a better

way to monitor as with sulfurous compounds often a tiny amount produces a LARGE

smell and so one cant tell if indeed the amounts are " too high " .

Meso-2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA) is a sulfur-containing organic compound

that is FDA approved for the treatment of lead and mercury toxicity both in

children and adults. It may also work with other HEAVY metals such as aresenic

and cadmium but many claim it works to chelate a wide range of things--without

proof.

While " safe " , one must be careful of leaching beneficial minerals as well.

Also,?while it? has long been recognized that sulfur-containing compounds have

the ability to chelate heavy metals, within the normal operation of the human

body, there are natural sulfur-containing compounds which perform this service,

and these include N-acetyl cysteine (NAC), R-lipoic acid, S-adenysyl methionine

(SAMe), and glutathione (GSH).

Meso-2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA), does NOT occur naturally in the human

body, nor is it a constituent of food. However, it has been studied for over 40

years as an effective oral chelator of heavy metals. Initial studies took place

in the People's Republic of China, Japan, and Russia and then spread to Europe

and the USA.

How DMSA works

In healthy individuals, approximately 20 percent of an oral dose of DMSA is

absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract. THIS DOES NOT mean you should increase

the dose. 80% is excreted unused/unchanged in feces.

Ninety-five percent of the DMSA that actually makes it to the bloodstream is

bound to albumin. One of the sulfhydryls in DMSA binds to a cysteine residue on

albumin, leaving the other S-H available to chelate metals. In healthy fasting

men, 90 percent of the DMSA recovered in the urine was found to be mixed

disulfides (where DMSA is attached to one or two cysteine molecules), and 10

percent was free unchanged DMSA. No mixed disulfides were found in the blood. It

is thought these disulfides are formed as albumin releases DMSA in the kidneys.

It is part of the normal process of chelation/excretion to have disulfides in

the urine!! as well as additional free/unchanged (unused) DMSA---

Id contact an experienced and licensed health professional for guidance---to

insure that your son's sulfur excretion is within normal and not harmful limits

( that the DMSA isnt making things worse) and Id also avoid using anything else

to try to affect this process.

when you combine and try to over treat you fall into the same mess as when Drs

give drug B and C to counteract side effects of drug A and snowballs into a

plethora of interactions and side effects!!

Molybdenum is not to be dallied with--it will form a complex of Sulfur plus iron

taking the iron with it--as well as when it binds with sulfur in kidneys it

greatly lowers uric acid secretion and may cause GOUT!!

per drugs.com:

Molybdenum is a component of the enzymes xanthine oxidase, sulfite oxidase, and

aldehyde oxidase. These enzymes are responsible for conversion of xanthine and

hypoxanthine to uric acid, conversion of sulfite to sulfate, and detoxification

of several harmful organic molecules, respectively

Molybdenum is stored in the liver, kidneys, spleen, lung, brain, and

muscles--therefore only RARELY is a person deficient--and for such cases dietary

and not supplementation is warranted. Its suggested that these blood tests are

done while taking it

Purine and sulfur metabolic profiles????(monitoring every three- six months may

be recommended by some clinicians if deficiency or toxicity of molybdenum is

suspected)

Molybdenum also increases uptake of flourides--therefore may cause tooth enamel

fluridosis!! as well as weaken bones.

good luck

Finette

[Guest guest]

Finette,

Thank you for the information.

We have been using a low dose ALA and DMSA to chelate my 5 years old for

almost 2 years based upon Andy Cutler's protocol, and doing Urine Metals and

Essential Elements tests once every 2 to 3 weeks for monitoring.

In addition to Sulfur, Sulfite and Sulfate are also problems for us. My son

has a mild form of CBS upregulation that easily generates excess Ammonia and

Sulfites. We did muscle testing and urine test to detect high level of

Sulfite and Sulfur, on top of genetic testing. We did cold laser therapy to

detox my son using a homeopathic remedy " Sulfa " twice last year. We

supplement Molybdenum in the form of Ammonium Molybdate as daily

maintenance. But I would like to search for a better form of Molybdenum for

my son, as he also has a problem with Ammonia buildup.

Since fluorides are neurotoxin, we have been carefully avoid food and

supplement sources that contain fluorides.

Limin

[ ] Re:What form of Molybdenum to use

> You may not need anything to remove the sulfur--as your son's kidneys

> appear to be doing it for him--hence the sulfur in urine. It may actually

> be a sign that he is on TOO much DMSA for his body to handle

>

> How do you know btw--the odor?? or do you test for it--which would be a

> better way to monitor as with sulfurous compounds often a tiny amount

> produces a LARGE smell and so one cant tell if indeed the amounts are " too

> high " .

>

> Meso-2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA) is a sulfur-containing organic

> compound that is FDA approved for the treatment of lead and mercury

> toxicity both in children and adults. It may also work with other HEAVY

> metals such as aresenic and cadmium but many claim it works to chelate a

> wide range of things--without proof.

>

> While " safe " , one must be careful of leaching beneficial minerals as well.

> Also,?while it? has long been recognized that sulfur-containing compounds

> have the ability to chelate heavy metals, within the normal operation of

> the human body, there are natural sulfur-containing compounds which

> perform this service, and these include N-acetyl cysteine (NAC), R-lipoic

> acid, S-adenysyl methionine (SAMe), and glutathione (GSH).

>

> Meso-2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA), does NOT occur naturally in the

> human body, nor is it a constituent of food. However, it has been studied

> for over 40 years as an effective oral chelator of heavy metals. Initial

> studies took place in the People's Republic of China, Japan, and Russia

> and then spread to Europe and the USA.

>

> How DMSA works

> In healthy individuals, approximately 20 percent of an oral dose of DMSA

> is absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract. THIS DOES NOT mean you should

> increase the dose. 80% is excreted unused/unchanged in feces.

>

> Ninety-five percent of the DMSA that actually makes it to the bloodstream

> is bound to albumin. One of the sulfhydryls in DMSA binds to a cysteine

> residue on albumin, leaving the other S-H available to chelate metals. In

> healthy fasting men, 90 percent of the DMSA recovered in the urine was

> found to be mixed disulfides (where DMSA is attached to one or two

> cysteine molecules), and 10 percent was free unchanged DMSA. No mixed

> disulfides were found in the blood. It is thought these disulfides are

> formed as albumin releases DMSA in the kidneys.

>

> It is part of the normal process of chelation/excretion to have disulfides

> in the urine!! as well as additional free/unchanged (unused) DMSA---

>

> Id contact an experienced and licensed health professional for

> guidance---to insure that your son's sulfur excretion is within normal and

> not harmful limits ( that the DMSA isnt making things worse) and Id also

> avoid using anything else to try to affect this process.

>

> when you combine and try to over treat you fall into the same mess as when

> Drs give drug B and C to counteract side effects of drug A and snowballs

> into a plethora of interactions and side effects!!

>

> Molybdenum is not to be dallied with--it will form a complex of Sulfur

> plus iron taking the iron with it--as well as when it binds with sulfur in

> kidneys it greatly lowers uric acid secretion and may cause GOUT!!

>

> per drugs.com:

> Molybdenum is a component of the enzymes xanthine oxidase, sulfite

> oxidase, and aldehyde oxidase. These enzymes are responsible for

> conversion of xanthine and hypoxanthine to uric acid, conversion of

> sulfite to sulfate, and detoxification of several harmful organic

> molecules, respectively

>

> Molybdenum is stored in the liver, kidneys, spleen, lung, brain, and

> muscles--therefore only RARELY is a person deficient--and for such cases

> dietary and not supplementation is warranted. Its suggested that these

> blood tests are done while taking it

> Purine and sulfur metabolic profiles????(monitoring every three- six

> months may be recommended by some clinicians if deficiency or toxicity of

> molybdenum is suspected)

>

> Molybdenum also increases uptake of flourides--therefore may cause tooth

> enamel fluridosis!! as well as weaken bones.

>

> good luck

> Finette

>

[Guest guest]

Limin

Excretion in urine isnt always a sign that there are too high levels --it may

mean your son's kidneys are doing their job and removing the sulfur

compounds--its not what comes out but what stays in the body that often is more

of a problem.I also wouldnt rely on muscle testing for that. Id have a few

serial blood tests if it was my child to make sure.

2 years seems like an awful long time for chelation for a young child. Thats

just my observation.Unless he has continued exposure/intake whats left in the

body weight to get rid of?? Im very cautious with children

If he has a proven ( blood analysis) metabolic condition where he truly is

keeping too high levels of certain metals, metabolites, etc then of course he

may need constant tx--is this the case?( some have copper toxiciyt due to

s Disease and then they use penicillamine, trientine, zinc and/or TTM as

chelators--often the treatments must be ongoing but in intermittent spurts--not

continuous)

Be very careful with Cutler's protocol--he is a chemist and he describes himself

as limited in scope of his experience and expertise--with mercury toxicity- Many

have adapted his protocol to other substances and that makes me concerned, as

often there is no scientific or medical basis for this.

Everything he recommends is based upon Mercury detox!! and he himself warns

about the risks and caveats. Id go to his own books, sites and not take my or

anyone else's word for it.

the ALA effects and can produce sulfurs ( per Cutler) so maybe thats why you see

an increase in excretion??Using both ALA and DMSA will add sulfur normally and

thats not due to anything inside the child.

as for the CBS upreg issue: is your son Down's?? and whether yes or no have you

checked his homocysteine levels?? many people have a mild CBS regulation issue

and have fine and dandy homocysteines!!

and how did you find the upreg?? was it by genetic tests?? theyre the ONLY

reliable indicator

see this article about the tests and

controversy:http://stuff.mit.edu/people/london/cbs.html

I especially point out the following:QUOTE from above article-MIT

[it’s also been claimed that increased urinary taurine and ammonia can help

diagnose CBS upregulation.  While it's true that CBS upregulation can cause

increased taurine and ammonia production, there’s no evidence that this

increased production can be detected by measuring their urinary levels]

and

[in conclusion, the medical literature states that these CBS polymorphisms have

only very mild effects on CBS activity.  And even if there is significant CBS

upregulation, there is no evidence that it can significantly cause any negative

effects, such as overproduction of ammonia.  Furthermore, the medical

literature doesn’t support the claim that elevated levels of urinary ammonia

or taurine is indicative of CBS upregulation.]

unfortunately in Autism, there are even more people trying to make a name for

themselves and a buck than in TBDs and you have to go back to the scientific

basis before " believing " in something that may in the end make things worse.

If sulfurs are a problem why add the DMSA for so long a time?? they will cause

you to excrete sulfur hence the urine smell!! DMSA has been used for mercury and

lead but NO studies on any other toxins/metals- and

there are dangers to DMSA-bone marrow suppresion and liver injury that are far

more troublesome than a bit of extra sulfur--short term use damage is reversible

once DMSA is stopped but

LONG term use  of DMSA have definitely been linked to non reversible liver

damage and bone marrow suppression!!

even the companies selling DMSA all say " take for 4-8 weeks " WEEKS not months or

years.

I dont wish to be alarming you, but when it comes to kids, Im very cautious!!

if you need more solid info email me at finrussak@...

Finette