Guest guest Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Excellent question - I still don't know myself. I have my opinions that a few factors may be at work. 1) They think endocrine disorders other than diabetes are so rare that you probably don't have what you think you have (this is a self fulfilling error of logic). 2) markup on testosterone is nothing compared to anti-depressants so the pharmaceuticals push all these wonderful anti-depressants on the MD's. The exception is the gels, which have a very high markup and are aggressively being marketed. 3) Fear of screwing up the patients health by stirring up their hormone balance. I think the first dictum of medicine has become " In the first place, I would do nothing. " > > Why are so many MDs resistant to treat hypogonadism? I am wondering what the " real " > deal is. > > Is it lack of education and undertanding of the condition or is it fear of the DEA and FDA? > Now that Testosterone is class III I wonder if MDs just don't want to deal with it. > > If anyone has any information about the " real " reasons MDs don't want to treat > hypogonadism please share. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Also - testosterone has been Schedule III since the 80's I believe, but I think your point is also true about fear of losing their MD license. > > Why are so many MDs resistant to treat hypogonadism? I am wondering what the " real " > deal is. > > Is it lack of education and undertanding of the condition or is it fear of the DEA and FDA? > Now that Testosterone is class III I wonder if MDs just don't want to deal with it. > > If anyone has any information about the " real " reasons MDs don't want to treat > hypogonadism please share. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Yet my MD was all to happy to give me a script for any anti-depressant I wanted (even though he admitted that he did not kow what the long term consequences could be) and he was happy to give me cholesterol lowering meds which have some serious side effects. As far as messing with hormones, if you have hypogonadism your hormones are already out of wack. There is something odd going on and I am determined to find out why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Yet my MD was all to happy to give me a script for any anti-depressant ... and he was happy to give me cholesterol lowering meds ....There is something odd going on and I am determined to find out why.----- Because ADs and cholesterol meds are not controlled substances. Testosterone is. DEA is the reason. Giving this branch of law enforcement their mandate against steroids and narcotics was like unleashing pitbulls into the field of medicine. They are just doing their job, but they do it with a single-minded tenacity. Doctors, the FDA, researchers, science writers, customs officials...no one wants to go up against them, since this would be rather like inviting an IRS audit. Unfortunately the end result is that hormone replacement sits in the dark ages while post operative and terminally ill patients endure excruciating pain for want of morphine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 What said and the fact that they have no idea how much even a borderline deficiency affects a man's life. I do not think a testosterone deficiency will kill a man, but I can imagine it driving him to suicide. The depression that accompanies a deficiency having nothing to do with the suicide. I think it would be very educational for a male doctor to go on a six month " cycle " of cyproterone and finasteride. Cyproterone is a potent antiandrogen that is normally used for sex offenders, prostate cancer and female hirsutism. In men, this causes all of the symptoms of hypogonadism. Finasteride blocks the production of DHT, well enough to cause regression in male hair growth. It also guarantees impotence and estrogen dominance. In a good percentage of subjects, finasteride causes permanent hypogonadism. I am sure doctors would lose that cold,perjorative attitude that they display when a man complains of hypogonadism if they received such a " treatment " . They would also stop prescribing only 5gm of Androgel or 200mg testosterone every other week when they themselves need to be on TRT. The most sympathetic doctors are the ones who are hypogonadal themselves. The doctors I had the unfortunate experience of dealing with, refused to treat me even though I was severly symptomatic. Their reasoning was that I am above the minimum reference range. My PCP sent my blood to the lab here in Hawaii. I was 352ng/dl on a reference range of 190-1037ng/dl. The endo who tested me again got 388ng/dl range 350-1000ng/dl different lab. Everyone in this group can see that I am hypogonadal. The reason I got was the DEA would investigate them for prescribing testosterone to someone over the reference range. I have said before that I have a real problem with how hypogonadism is defined and how a reference range is derrived. If you look at the two reference ranges I described, they are not consistent. Secondly, those values are statistics derrived from actual blood samples. Blood samples are drawn mostly from sick people. I asked both the endo and my PCP, what is the total T values you see in a virile and naturally muscular man. Do you find levels this low in a healthy man my age? They could not give me a straight answer. Because it is not likely that it would be 350ng/dl or much less 190ng/dl. Unless there is a radical change in how reference ranges are derrived and interpreted, I have no use for them. Doctors should be equally skeptical of them as well. I am very skeptical of the AACE as well, they have set a point defining hypogonadism that is way below where the symptoms occur. There have been no studies done on where levels are in nonhypogonadal men. I take that back, in the files section of this group, there is a chart containing average T levels for healthy men categorized by age. If I go by that, I should be at minimum, 450ng/dl most men are 500-600ng/dl. Right now, I am being treated. But I am responsible for obtaining and injecting the testosterone that I need. I risk prison and a fine for violating the " Steroid Control Act " It is now six weeks since I started injections and I have never felt better in my entire life. Those reference ranges may be placed where the sun dont shine My doctors had the nerve to suggest my problems were psychological. I was offended to no end when Viagra and Cialis were mentioned. Because what brought me into the doctor's office demanding a diagnosis was severe fatigue, weakness and muscle wasting. I told my PCP to forget about my limp dick and worry that I am developing the body of an old man. I am only 33 years old and that is too young to be as sick as I was. Yet my MD was all to happy to give me a script for any > anti-depressant ... and he was happy to give me cholesterol lowering > meds ....There is something odd going on and I am determined to > find out why.----- > > Because ADs and cholesterol meds are not controlled substances. > Testosterone is. > > DEA is the reason. Giving this branch of law enforcement their > mandate against steroids and narcotics was like unleashing pitbulls > into the field of medicine. They are just doing their job, but they do > it with a single-minded tenacity. Doctors, the FDA, researchers, > science writers, customs officials...no one wants to go up against > them, since this would be rather like inviting an IRS audit. > > Unfortunately the end result is that hormone replacement sits in the > dark ages while post operative and terminally ill patients endure > excruciating pain for want of morphine. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 > > What said and the fact that they have no idea how much even a > borderline deficiency affects a man's life. I do not think a > testosterone deficiency will kill a man, but I can imagine it driving > him to suicide. I have read several reports suggestion that low testosterone/high E2 is correlated to: 1. Prostate Cancer 2. Heart Disease 3. Diabetes 4. Depression 5. Bone Loss In other words, low testosterone kills men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 thanks for all replies, guys and gals (including Dr. Gluck who emailed me privately). so i want to respond to some of the points brought up. lyme is fully ruled out with me. i've got a fairly classic case of rrms with all requirements in place. next, the damaged toe indeed briefly altered my walking simply from the physical pain but not so much in distance. yet, that's my big complaint, the distance i can walk has been severely curtailed. next, i do eat well, exercise, take a ton of supplements, and i don't buy the candida myth (no arguments, please). lastly, i'm not sure how stress would weaken me so much. my life is fairly stress-free and i'm an optimistic person in general. sure, there was some mild stress on the toe while it healed itself but my overall attitude remained the same. it's only the gradual worsening of my walking skills and balance/coordination despite the constant ldn intake, that's finally frustrated me to the point of inquiring what the experts here think. any additional thoughts? ---ToNY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 thanks for asking, Bob. i didn't think anyone had any more to say about the pickle i'm in. coincidentally, i've just discovered more info about this and it's highly unpleasant to say the least. i've been in aclinical trial for the last year and a half or so and have had to suffer through a billion mri's as a result. to make a long story short, there's no doubt i've been on a placebo (using ldn as my backup the whole time) and got a call from the doc in charge who told me about the spreadsheet of mri results he just got from trial sponsor. apparently, just as i've been gradually declining in my health status, i've been acquiring more and more lesions on my lovely brain. so shit's been hitting the fan big time and ldn has done nothing! deeply disappointing, i must say... ---ToNY > > From: ant0069 <Ant069@...> > Subject: [low dose naltrexone] what's the deal? > low dose naltrexone > Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 10:40 PM > > > > > > > let me preface this by saying i've got the rrms. i've been dutifully > taking ldn for over five years straight, happy with the results. > recently however, my condition has taken a turn for the worse. i > injured myself not long ago and it would make sense that my immune > system would go into hyperdrive trying to fix up the injury. > furthermore, it would make sense that an exacerbation of some degree > would occur. so my question is how come the ldn didn't stop the > exacerbation and isn't stopping the worsening of my condition either? > i thought the claim on the ldn website as far as ms is that there's > virtually no worsening possible as long as one stays on the ldn > protocol. well, i have but i ain't feeling so good at all. any advice > would be much appreciated (especially from Dr. Gluck). > > ---ToNY :-) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I think you answered your own question. You did ok for 5 years then went on a clinical trial and went downhill. How can you be sure you are on a placebo? You can't take LDN while on any crab drugs so maybe you are not on a placebo or maybe if the placebo is a pill the filler is the problem. I would be interested to see how you go after the trial is over and just LDN is taken (along with any supplements) Sal > > > > From: ant0069 <Ant069@> > > Subject: [low dose naltrexone] what's the deal? > > low dose naltrexone > > Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 10:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > let me preface this by saying i've got the rrms. i've been dutifully > > taking ldn for over five years straight, happy with the results. > > recently however, my condition has taken a turn for the worse. i > > injured myself not long ago and it would make sense that my immune > > system would go into hyperdrive trying to fix up the injury. > > furthermore, it would make sense that an exacerbation of some degree > > would occur. so my question is how come the ldn didn't stop the > > exacerbation and isn't stopping the worsening of my condition either? > > i thought the claim on the ldn website as far as ms is that there's > > virtually no worsening possible as long as one stays on the ldn > > protocol. well, i have but i ain't feeling so good at all. any advice > > would be much appreciated (especially from Dr. Gluck). > > > > ---ToNY :-) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 xin in some way may be nullifying the LDN. I am shocked that they allowed you to continue with your LDN while in this clinical trial. If you did well on LDN for 5 years and after you started the clinical trial for xin you got worse then my bet is the xin wiped out all effects of the LDN. Who told you it would be okay to use both and that the LDN would not be deminished by xin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 well... the thing is they DIDN'T allow ldn. it was my own initiative and i'm pretty sure the two don't contradict each other at all. i've been following the ldn story for a long time and i did all the research on tovaxin i could and did not find any conflict between the two. i'm not saying i couldn't have been wrong but i doubt it. either way, i just need to hold on by the skin of my teeth until i get the real thing in a couple of months. think i should stop the ldn right away? wouldn't all those active lesions get even worse? > > > xin in some way may be nullifying the LDN. I am shocked that they > allowed you to continue with your LDN while in this clinical trial. > If you did well on LDN for 5 years and after you started the clinical > trial for xin you got worse then my bet is the xin wiped out > all effects of the LDN. Who told you it would be okay to use both and > that the LDN would not be deminished by xin? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Have you ever been tested for lyme disease by one of these labs, IGeneX, Fry, Bowen? If not, you need to consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 yeah, i'm all good with that. eliminated lyme disease a while back. what does that have to do with my situation anyway? > > > > Have you ever been tested > for lyme disease by one > of these labs, IGeneX, > Fry, Bowen? If not, you > need to consider it. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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