fasting

[Guest guest]

Hi,

To my knowledge, U R supposed not to drink unless U can't help it

(necessary medicine, etc.).

Is there a specific problem that requires drinking?

Gal.

> When you are fasting the day of the Hulda flush, are you

allowed to

> drink plenty of water or anything else for that matter?

>

> G.

> lag17@a...

[Guest guest]

I've done two flushes. The first one I did not drink anything, but ended up

with bad diarrhea and I felt awful from being dehydrated. The second flush,

I continued to drink lots of water, and did not have diarrhea and felt much

better, but also did not get as much out. So I was wondering if I was

supposed to drink water or not. How does it affect the outcome of your

flush?

<<Hi,To my knowledge, U R supposed not to drink unless U can't help it

(necessary medicine, etc.). Is there a specific problem that requires

drinking?

> When you are fasting the day of the Hulda flush, are you allowed to

drink plenty of water or anything else for that matter?>>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

It sounds like you've seen how the outcome of your flush is affected if you

don't cease drinking extra water after about 2:00 the day of the flush - you

don't get as many stones If your body is busy processing extra food and

or water it doesn't have enough energy to push out as many stones. For you

to feel that bad because of dehydration makes me think you are not properly

hydrated all the time. This is very common in our culture, but can easily

be cured and you can benefit your health in countless ways at the same time.

Mixing unprocessed sea salt (such as Celtic Sea salt which can be bought

at:

http://www.celtic-seasalt.com/

with all your daily drinking water can help you get your minerals, water,

and salt (which is absolutely essential to each cell of our body) each day.

The balence of these minerals, good salt, and water is perfect for you if

mixed according to the optimum ratio - 1 teaspoon of sea salt for every

gallon of water. I mix this in a gallon jug and drink it until I run out,

and mix another gallon. I have a gallon of it at work and 2 or 3 gallons

mixed at home. It's easy and very cheap compared to the benefits it gives.

Check out all the benefits (such as curing asthma, constipation, etc.) and

more info at:

http://www.watercure2.com/

I never feel overly dehydrated during or after a flush, just huuungry ,

but it's worth every bit of it. This is not to say you can't take an extra

drink or two after the epsom salts to rinse your mouth out. I do this and

it helps a lot to get that taste out sooner.

Vince

>From: " Guthrie, " <.Guthrie@...>

>Reply-gallstones

> " 'gallstones ' " <gallstones >

>Subject: RE: Re: Fasting

>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:43:01 -0500

>

>I've done two flushes. The first one I did not drink anything, but ended

>up

>with bad diarrhea and I felt awful from being dehydrated. The second

>flush,

>I continued to drink lots of water, and did not have diarrhea and felt much

>better, but also did not get as much out. So I was wondering if I was

>supposed to drink water or not. How does it affect the outcome of your

>flush?

>

>

>

><<Hi,To my knowledge, U R supposed not to drink unless U can't help it

>(necessary medicine, etc.). Is there a specific problem that requires

>drinking?

>

> > When you are fasting the day of the Hulda flush, are you allowed

>to

>drink plenty of water or anything else for that matter?>>

_________________________________________________________________

The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/20/2003 1:19:31 PM Central Standard Time, fskelton@... writes:

Day: we're not a "fasting" group. Or even a weight loss group. We do cut

back on calories for health (and possible longevity) purposes; weight loss

usually ensues as a result. Your fast sounds pretty drastic to me and I

would personally discourage you from fasting for 10 days. Some of us fast

on occasion (like one day a week as jw told you) but none but the most

fanatic cronie would fast for 10 days. It would cause too much rapid weight

loss and our mantra is to go slow and do things in moderation for maximum

health.

I appreciate the concern, but I know what I'm doing. I am not looking for a fasting group, because I only fast a few times a year. I believe that I benefit from the fasts that I have done in the past, or I would not continue to fast on occassion. I am also, not a "cronie", although I follow a similar diet. I am very interested in learning more about CR, but I try to learn about things before I just jump into them. Please don't be offended, because I am just being sincere.

DarkDreamz4u

[Guest guest]

Day: we're not a " fasting " group. Or even a weight loss group. We do cut

back on calories for health (and possible longevity) purposes; weight loss

usually ensues as a result. Your fast sounds pretty drastic to me and I

would personally discourage you from fasting for 10 days. Some of us fast

on occasion (like one day a week as jw told you) but none but the most

fanatic cronie would fast for 10 days. It would cause too much rapid weight

loss and our mantra is to go slow and do things in moderation for maximum

health.

I try to fast 2x

> a year for 10 days, I just had a few questions that I always wonder about

> while fasting. Like....

>

> Should I continue to take my vitamins or wait until my fast is over?

> I have heard people say yes and no...but I have never really had any

> explanations as to why or why not.

>

> I have alot of ?'s... Anyways, it is nice to find this group.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have been following an approach where I do not eat

until at least 4pm or later. I did this after I read

the Mattson study on every other day fasting. At first

I was weak and hungry but after about a month I

adjusted.I have been doing this for about 4 months and

it is by far the easiest way to stay at my preferred

weight. I dropped about 24 lbs 3 years ago following

mild CR and steadied at 132. I am 5 ft 6 inches tall.

I found that I had trouble controlling my eating once

I started. This is much easier since I have a hard

rule of no food before 4pm.At 4 I can eat more than I

ever could while following a series of small meals

before I made this change. I exercise a lot but this

does not seem to affect this negatively. Sometimes I

will feel hungery after exercise or for no good reason

but if I get involved in something the feeling goes

away. I do not have any medical test results since I

started this but my temperature drops to the low 97s

or below before I eat and my blood pressure has

continued to be low. In other words a daily fast

results in the similar results to what I was getting

following regular cr without a fast, The big advantage

of the daily fast is it is easier and you get to eat

at least one really satisfying meal once a day. Also

no temptations like you get when you eat several times

a day and must drag yourself away from the table. If

you don' go to the table at all you do not have to

drag yourself away.

[Guest guest]

Well, whatever works. Personally, I can't fast. I tried a couple of times

and got sick to my stomach. Also your routine has the drawback that you

could find yourself in a social situation where food is around and abundant.

In such a case, I partake and don't deny myself. I " sample " everything and

so don't feel deprived. Usually I see that I'm not missing anything by not

eating large portions of bad foods. I sort of have the same philosophy as

Andy who posted earlier that he allows himself treats on occasion.

But we're all different and it's interesting to see the different methods

that people have evolved into. BTW I couldn't eat a huge meal at one

sitting these days anyway. It would cause me great abdominal discomfort.

on 10/25/2003 9:12 PM, william gram at billgram2000@... wrote:

> I have been following an approach where I do not eat

> until at least 4pm or later. I did this after I read

> the Mattson study on every other day fasting. At first

> I was weak and hungry but after about a month I

> adjusted.I have been doing this for about 4 months and

> it is by far the easiest way to stay at my preferred

> weight. I dropped about 24 lbs 3 years ago following

> mild CR and steadied at 132. I am 5 ft 6 inches tall.

> I found that I had trouble controlling my eating once

> I started. This is much easier since I have a hard

> rule of no food before 4pm.At 4 I can eat more than I

> ever could while following a series of small meals

> before I made this change. I exercise a lot but this

> does not seem to affect this negatively. Sometimes I

> will feel hungery after exercise or for no good reason

> but if I get involved in something the feeling goes

> away. I do not have any medical test results since I

> started this but my temperature drops to the low 97s

> or below before I eat and my blood pressure has

> continued to be low. In other words a daily fast

> results in the similar results to what I was getting

> following regular cr without a fast, The big advantage

> of the daily fast is it is easier and you get to eat

> at least one really satisfying meal once a day. Also

> no temptations like you get when you eat several times

> a day and must drag yourself away from the table. If

> you don' go to the table at all you do not have to

> drag yourself away.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What I find really interesting about Bill's post, as well as others

here about the benefits of fasting, is how this reflects on the

popular mythology, widely acknowledged even in the medical profession

it seems to me, that " the most important meal of the day is

breakfast " !!!! So much of the popular opinion about nutrition is

faulty. This is just another example. More than once I have asked

those who advocate eating a " good! " breakfast what their evidence

was. Of course I never got an answer.

I have long felt this was an 'old wives tale'. I am never, ever

hungry in the morning. And if I do not eat breakfast I am not hungry

at lunch time either. But if I eat breakfast I am positively

starving by lunch time. So for me, eating breakfast would make

maintaining a stable weight doubly difficult. For a long time now I

have generally not eaten breakfast, eaten lunch even though I am not

hungry, and dinner. That way weight control has never been much of a

problem.

Of course up until a few weeks ago my view of what constituted my

ideal weight was skewed upward along with (almost) the entire rest of

the world. That I plan to fix in coming months and years.

Rodney.

> I have been following an approach where I do not eat

> until at least 4pm or later. I did this after I read

> the Mattson study on every other day fasting. At first

> I was weak and hungry but after about a month I

> adjusted.I have been doing this for about 4 months and

> it is by far the easiest way to stay at my preferred

> weight. I dropped about 24 lbs 3 years ago following

> mild CR and steadied at 132. I am 5 ft 6 inches tall.

> I found that I had trouble controlling my eating once

> I started. This is much easier since I have a hard

> rule of no food before 4pm.At 4 I can eat more than I

> ever could while following a series of small meals

> before I made this change. I exercise a lot but this

> does not seem to affect this negatively. Sometimes I

> will feel hungery after exercise or for no good reason

> but if I get involved in something the feeling goes

> away. I do not have any medical test results since I

> started this but my temperature drops to the low 97s

> or below before I eat and my blood pressure has

> continued to be low. In other words a daily fast

> results in the similar results to what I was getting

> following regular cr without a fast, The big advantage

> of the daily fast is it is easier and you get to eat

> at least one really satisfying meal once a day. Also

> no temptations like you get when you eat several times

> a day and must drag yourself away from the table. If

> you don' go to the table at all you do not have to

> drag yourself away.

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote:

> What I find really interesting about Bill's post, as well as others

> here about the benefits of fasting, is how this reflects on the

> popular mythology, widely acknowledged even in the medical

> profession it seems to me, that " the most important meal of the day

> is breakfast " !!!! So much of the popular opinion about nutrition

> is faulty. This is just another example. More than once I have

> asked those who advocate eating a " good! " breakfast what their

> evidence was. Of course I never got an answer.

>

> I have long felt this was an 'old wives tale'. I am never, ever

> hungry in the morning. And if I do not eat breakfast I am not

> hungry at lunch time either. But if I eat breakfast I am

> positively starving by lunch time. So for me, eating breakfast

> would make maintaining a stable weight doubly difficult. For a

> long time now I have generally not eaten breakfast, eaten lunch

> even though I am not hungry, and dinner. That way weight control

> has never been much of a problem.

Hi Rodney ~

It's probably not an 'old wives tale,' nor is it faulty. As with

all 'medical' advice (as well as other 'advice' passed down from

specialists in the respective fields), there is *some* truth in it --

for SOME people. E.g., SOME people have blood sugar values which are

low enough upon waking that they need some nourishment to be able to

function at all. Then there are SOME people who, if they skip

breakfast, habitually overeat at lunch and/or dinner and gain

weight. And, lo and behold!...there are SOME people who, like you,

find that breakfast is neither a necessity nor a desire, and who

don't respond to the lack of it by overeating later. A whole

constellation of mindbody types! :-))))

What seems to happen in human culture is this:

any bit of data which is valid for SOME people becomes a " meme " (a

contagious idea that replicates like a virus, passed on from mind to

mind; memes function the same way as genes and viruses do,

propagating through communication networks and face-to-face contact

between people).

There seems to be something in the human psyche that creates a

profound *need* for each individual to believe: " I *know* what is

right, " as if there is exactly *one* " right " thing/truth/lifestyle

for each person/animal/plant on the planet. The thought pattern then

becomes a strongly-held belief system out of which the person

operates and on which the person depends.

This type of mental activity occurs in all areas of our lives, diet

and exercise just being one of them. Most of us believe that what we

are doing (in all areas of our lives) is the " right " thing; in

support, we are able to find quotes and 'peer-reviewed' studies to

buttress our arguments. And many of these positions are

diametrically opposed. Being radically different, how can they

*both* be valid? we ask. And thus we cling to one (or another) pov

in order to feel safe and secure in our belief system. Having a

belief system challenged - or worse, yet, losing it! - can feel like

death (almost literally).

I've come to suspect that Life isn't like that.

Life isn't that simple.

It's much more interesting.

What is 'true' and 'valid' for person A may appear to be

contradictory for person B. And BOTH of these people/positions can

be 'correct.'

The world -- as seen, felt, and lived by person A -- may be a

dramtically different one than the one seen, felt, and lived by

person B. (Of course, there are certainly areas of overlap;

otherwise chaos would ensue. In both worlds, e.g., the Law of

Gravity will hold.)

As I've mentioned before, each of us is an " experiment of one, " and

upon entering this experiment we each have our own conditioning,

biochemistry, genetics, biological history, and emotional

predispositions. (I'm even willing to allow that an Atkins' diet may

be appropriate for *some* people!)

Given the huge variation in all of the above, it seems that fluid and

flexible dictums would be more the rule than the exception. However,

the opposite appears to be the case: " I'm RIGHT and you're wrong. "

What appears to happen is this: because of these differences in

perception-thought, and because of a need to feel secure and safe,

these individual notions become rooted in deeply-held belief systems,

and then intolerance results. From intolerence is birth hatred and

further divisiveness. Ultimately, what arises is a 9/11.

Perhaps an understanding of this will allow us to appreciate and

enjoy -- instead of judging and condemning -- the differences we all

share. End of today's homily. :-)))

> Of course up until a few weeks ago my view of what constituted my

> ideal weight was skewed upward along with (almost) the entire rest

> of the world. That I plan to fix in coming months and years.

*****Good luck on your adventure! I wish you success and health.

~andy

[Guest guest]

Hi Andy:

Wow. Thanks for that. It never would have occurred to me that

different members of the same species could be so different.

And thanks for increasing my vocabulary, too!

Rodney.

>

>

> > What I find really interesting about Bill's post, as well as

others

> > here about the benefits of fasting, is how this reflects on the

> > popular mythology, widely acknowledged even in the medical

> > profession it seems to me, that " the most important meal of the

day

> > is breakfast " !!!! So much of the popular opinion about nutrition

> > is faulty. This is just another example. More than once I have

> > asked those who advocate eating a " good! " breakfast what their

> > evidence was. Of course I never got an answer.

> >

> > I have long felt this was an 'old wives tale'. I am never, ever

> > hungry in the morning. And if I do not eat breakfast I am not

> > hungry at lunch time either. But if I eat breakfast I am

> > positively starving by lunch time. So for me, eating breakfast

> > would make maintaining a stable weight doubly difficult. For a

> > long time now I have generally not eaten breakfast, eaten lunch

> > even though I am not hungry, and dinner. That way weight control

> > has never been much of a problem.

>

>

> Hi Rodney ~

>

> It's probably not an 'old wives tale,' nor is it faulty. As with

> all 'medical' advice (as well as other 'advice' passed down from

> specialists in the respective fields), there is *some* truth in it -

-

> for SOME people. E.g., SOME people have blood sugar values which

are

> low enough upon waking that they need some nourishment to be able

to

> function at all. Then there are SOME people who, if they skip

> breakfast, habitually overeat at lunch and/or dinner and gain

> weight. And, lo and behold!...there are SOME people who, like you,

> find that breakfast is neither a necessity nor a desire, and who

> don't respond to the lack of it by overeating later. A whole

> constellation of mindbody types! :-))))

>

> What seems to happen in human culture is this:

>

> any bit of data which is valid for SOME people becomes a " meme " (a

> contagious idea that replicates like a virus, passed on from mind

to

> mind; memes function the same way as genes and viruses do,

> propagating through communication networks and face-to-face contact

> between people).

>

> There seems to be something in the human psyche that creates a

> profound *need* for each individual to believe: " I *know* what is

> right, " as if there is exactly *one* " right " thing/truth/lifestyle

> for each person/animal/plant on the planet. The thought pattern

then

> becomes a strongly-held belief system out of which the person

> operates and on which the person depends.

>

> This type of mental activity occurs in all areas of our lives, diet

> and exercise just being one of them. Most of us believe that what

we

> are doing (in all areas of our lives) is the " right " thing; in

> support, we are able to find quotes and 'peer-reviewed' studies to

> buttress our arguments. And many of these positions are

> diametrically opposed. Being radically different, how can they

> *both* be valid? we ask. And thus we cling to one (or another) pov

> in order to feel safe and secure in our belief system. Having a

> belief system challenged - or worse, yet, losing it! - can feel

like

> death (almost literally).

>

> I've come to suspect that Life isn't like that.

> Life isn't that simple.

> It's much more interesting.

>

> What is 'true' and 'valid' for person A may appear to be

> contradictory for person B. And BOTH of these people/positions can

> be 'correct.'

>

> The world -- as seen, felt, and lived by person A -- may be a

> dramtically different one than the one seen, felt, and lived by

> person B. (Of course, there are certainly areas of overlap;

> otherwise chaos would ensue. In both worlds, e.g., the Law of

> Gravity will hold.)

>

> As I've mentioned before, each of us is an " experiment of one, " and

> upon entering this experiment we each have our own conditioning,

> biochemistry, genetics, biological history, and emotional

> predispositions. (I'm even willing to allow that an Atkins' diet

may

> be appropriate for *some* people!)

>

> Given the huge variation in all of the above, it seems that fluid

and

> flexible dictums would be more the rule than the exception.

However,

> the opposite appears to be the case: " I'm RIGHT and you're wrong. "

>

> What appears to happen is this: because of these differences in

> perception-thought, and because of a need to feel secure and safe,

> these individual notions become rooted in deeply-held belief

systems,

> and then intolerance results. From intolerence is birth hatred and

> further divisiveness. Ultimately, what arises is a 9/11.

>

> Perhaps an understanding of this will allow us to appreciate and

> enjoy -- instead of judging and condemning -- the differences we

all

> share. End of today's homily. :-)))

>

>

> > Of course up until a few weeks ago my view of what constituted my

> > ideal weight was skewed upward along with (almost) the entire

rest

> > of the world. That I plan to fix in coming months and years.

>

>

> *****Good luck on your adventure! I wish you success and health.

>

> ~andy

[Guest guest]

I am presently on the one-meal-per-day plan, which solves a lot of the calorie

counting and will power - temptations issues. ( Also, there are some " problem "

foods i have solved by just not buying them anymore, for at least now, because

they tempt self-discipline and amount-limiting too much. Nuts, for one. )

But what i wonder about, is compared to what i am now doing, what if i was

still living in the midwest, and when i went outside in the morning, and the

temperature was around - or below! - zero? And what if i had to be outside

for a part of the day - would that one-meal idea work? I kinda don't think so.

Would CR work at all? I dunno.

Hue

[Guest guest]

Hi Hue:

My guess is that in sub-zero temperatures you would be burning off a

few more calories in order to keep your body temperature up. So you

would need to eat a few more calories to maintain the same level

of 'restriction'. I do not see why anything else would be any

different. But I am no authority on cold weather nutrition. Just

trying to approach the topic logically.

Rodney.

--- In , " Hue " <kargo_cult@m...>

wrote:

> I am presently on the one-meal-per-day plan, which solves a lot of

the calorie

> counting and will power - temptations issues. ( Also, there are

some " problem "

> foods i have solved by just not buying them anymore, for at least

now, because

> they tempt self-discipline and amount-limiting too much. Nuts, for

one. )

>

> But what i wonder about, is compared to what i am now doing, what

if i was

> still living in the midwest, and when i went outside in the

morning, and the

> temperature was around - or below! - zero? And what if i had to be

outside

> for a part of the day - would that one-meal idea work? I kinda

don't think so.

> Would CR work at all? I dunno.

> Hue

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@...>

< >

Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 6:11 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: fasting

> Hi Hue:

>

> My guess is that in sub-zero temperatures you would be burning off a

> few more calories in order to keep your body temperature up. So you

> would need to eat a few more calories to maintain the same level

> of 'restriction'. I do not see why anything else would be any

> different. But I am no authority on cold weather nutrition. Just

> trying to approach the topic logically.

>

> Rodney.

But - i don't think CR just means not putting in more than you burn up.

This is my point: you would have to have more calories running thru

the boiler. Like with professional ( big ) athletes. I do not think running

more calories thru the sytem is conducive to longevity, even if you

shiver or work them off. What got me thinking about this is recalling

when i lived in places that were really warm in summer, how much less

my caloric needs seemed to be. Also observing domestic animals that

live outside, how dramatically their feed needs increase with the onset

of cold weather.

Hue

[Guest guest]

I recall reading that CR is eating less than you burn, but that never made sense to me. At some point we have to reach a balance. Surely we need more calories - just energy - if we work or if our environment changes. In the south I don't need near as much fat.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Hue

Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 8:32 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: fasting

But - i don't think CR just means not putting in more than you burn up.This is my point: you would have to have more calories running thruthe boiler. Like with professional ( big ) athletes. I do not think runningmore calories thru the sytem is conducive to longevity, even if you shiver or work them off. What got me thinking about this is recallingwhen i lived in places that were really warm in summer, how much lessmy caloric needs seemed to be. Also observing domestic animals thatlive outside, how dramatically their feed needs increase with the onsetof cold weather. Hue

[Guest guest]

Hue said:

Like with professional ( big ) athletes. I do not think running

more calories thru the sytem is conducive to longevity,

Reply:

Walford, in his book, agrees with you but wasn't there something

about the increased free radicals produced by the excessive exercise

and that's what wasn't conducive to longevity? In the colder temps,

would you have the same increase in free radicals?

Margar

[Guest guest]

Here in Edmonton we all realized last winter that Celsius and Farenheit meet

at -40... My strategy is to wear a coat, which pretty much eliminates

excessive shivering.

Seriously, a regular shirt, with a fleece coat, under a wool overcoat, with

good gloves, toque, and scarf will pretty much take care of the worst cold,

and if it's coastal Alaska, it's probably warmer there due to the Gulf Stream.

Nonetheless, continual shivering would probably qualify as exercise...

Cheers,

>===== Original Message From " margarinva " <onslowbb@...> =====

>Hue said:

>Like with professional ( big ) athletes. I do not think running

>more calories thru the sytem is conducive to longevity,

>

>

>

>Reply:

>Walford, in his book, agrees with you but wasn't there something

>about the increased free radicals produced by the excessive exercise

>and that's what wasn't conducive to longevity? In the colder temps,

>would you have the same increase in free radicals?

>

>

>Margar

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- In , " margarinva " <onslowbb@c...>

wrote:

> Hue said:

> Like with professional ( big ) athletes. I do not think running

> more calories thru the sytem is conducive to longevity,

>

>

>

> Reply:

> Walford, in his book, agrees with you but wasn't there something

> about the increased free radicals produced by the excessive

> exercise and that's what wasn't conducive to longevity? In the

> colder temps, would you have the same increase in free radicals?

>

>

> Margar

*****The quote your were looking for, I belive, is this:

" The overall evidence suggestions that aerobic exercise considerably

increases cardiovascular fitness and substantially decreases the

suspectibility to heart attack, and improves some features of

carbohydrate metabolism. At the same time -- possibly owing to an

increased generation of free radicals or a temporary increase in body

tempeerature and metabolic rate -- it may slightly accelerate the

basic rate of aging. Exercise definitely has a good effect and

possibly a mild bad effect. " (P. 204 BT120YD)

Other, related quotes from the same text:

" A common public fallacy about exercise and heart disease holds that

exercise is more effective than diet in preventing an attack. That's

decidedly not true. The idea that diet is rather irrelevant as long

as you exercise strenuously is a myth. " (p. 202)

" Do not fall so deepy into the myth of exercise that you neglect

other preventative health measures. Diet is hte most important, even

for heart disease, although exercise prvoides additional benefits.

But there is no evidence in either animals or humans that exercise

influences the incidence of cancer, the second major cause of death

after cardiovascular disease, and we know that cancer is very heavily

influenced by diet. " (p. 203)

~ andy

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Rodney wrote:

> Hi folks:

>

> I got this quote from post # 6783 when I was trying to find

> information on fasting:

>

> " And do any of you know results from experiments that show how fasting

> mice do versus CR mice in terms of average and maximum life span?

> (the above experiment didn't actually see which group lived the

> longest). "

>

> I didn't see an answer to the above question in subsequent posts. Do

> we know the answer? Or know where to find it?

Sorry for prior crypticness.

To sum up.

We were originally pointed to a study claiming mice fed an ordinary number of

calories, but once every day or two, had CR-like effects. Supposedly according

to the study, faring as well.

Then in response to my question, this second study was referenced claiming that

combining CR and fasting did not improve over CR.

Thus, at the moment I'm left with tentative conclusion based on a couple of

non-reproduced and non-cross-tested studies that maybe CR has a limit of

effectiveness, and that it triggers similar mechanisms to fasting.

That if you can manage it, eating a normal number of calories once every day or

two may be as good as CR.

But again, severe lack of information.

[Guest guest]

I sent a message out earlier about getting help with a fast and then I was cleaning out my "files" and ran across this from Dr. Bernarr..............

>I began my professional practice of Natural Hygiene in 1955.> I conducted a very large professional practice and clinic for many> years, in New York City, USA.> I employed on my professional staff, many Doctors of Chiropractic,> M.D.'s and Osteopathic Physicians.> I had 30 therapy rooms in which we were able to care for 30 patients> at the same time.> We consulted with and helped to heal 35 new patients daily.> This was in addition to our regular repeat patients that we were also> helping to heal.> My clinic was open from early AM to late PM, 7 days weekly, 365 days> yearly.> I do not see patients personally anymore.> I now live in Santa , California USA.> I conduct my Natural Hygiene practice exclusively via the telephone> and Internet.> I am the only practitioner in the world, who supervises water fasting> patients and animals via the telephone.> In this way, if patients and/or animals choose to undergo a water> fast, they can have a supervised water fast wherever they are located> in the world, inexpensively, and are able to remain in their own> homes, with their loved ones and families.> DR BERNARR drbernarr@... 310-396-2914> God Healing, Inc. Natural Hygiene Society, Inc.> http://www.healself.org

[Guest guest]

hovipups wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> I have a question about fasting. I started a fast 4 days ago with

> eating absolutely nothing, also not drinking anything except water. I

> was wondering if anyone of you have experience with this and how long

> it is safe to do?

> Any problems I can expect or should watch out for?

> I am using a cleansing program (prepared formulation)

>

> Thanks for any thoughts christa

=========================

Hi Christa,

A couple of questions if I may. What is your purpose for doing this

cleanse? Are you ill? Overweight? Or?????

I call what you are doing a cleanse because that is what you are doing.

If you are taking anything into your body other that pure water then you

are not fasting you are cleansing.

What kind of commercial formulation are you using? Is it a liver

cleanse, total body cleanse, kidney cleanse, bowel cleanse or what? We

really will need more info on what kind of cleanse you are using.

However, you may experience a lot of effects whilst doing this as you

are not eating anything. There are a lot of things that could occur as

toxins are released into your blood stream. You might experience lack of

energy, strong emotional ups and downs, flu or cold like symptoms or

worse. Feverish. It is really difficult to say what exactly you may or

may not experience. Cleansing, as you are doing, and pure fasting are

such individual and personal journeys that no two people experience the

exact same things.

Not knowing what kind of cleanse you are doing it is hard to say how

long you should go for. Most cleanses go for about a week. A complete

body cleanse will go for about a month. However, most cleanses entail

the continuation of eating (although most will recommend eating raw

living foods and all organic).

I would suggest not going longer than a week, but then I really don't

know what your purpose is or what you are taking. This makes it

extremely difficult for me or anyone else to make any kind of suggestion.

Let us know Christa.

--

Peace be with you, Christa.

Don " Quai " Eitner

" Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in the animal

and wakes in man. "

Nearly all men die of their remedies, and not of their illnesses. ~Jean

Baptiste Molière, Le Malade Imaginaire

The obstacle is the path. ~Zen Proverb

--

In compliance with the highest standards of Universal Law, this email has been

thoroughly disinfected and purified in the solar flares of the sun.

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.10/43 - Release Date: 7/6/05

[Guest guest]

Hi Don Quai,

thanks for your response.

The only reason I'm doing this cleanse is because I was eating so

much crap lately and seem to be out of control with my eating habits.

Eventually I need to figure out why I crave all that junk and how to

stop it. I never did a cleanse before (I'm in my 40'is)

So, I'm not ill or overweight.

The product I'm using is called " Ultimate Cleanse " by Nature's

Secret and its supposed for Total Body Detoxification.

And yes, since I'm jogging and doing other physical things I

really feal my exhaustion. But otherwise I'm not feeling to bad.

I was wondering how long you can safely go without food.

thanks so much christa

[Guest guest]

hovipups wrote:

> Hi Don Quai,

>

> thanks for your response.

>

> The only reason I'm doing this cleanse is because I was eating so

> much crap lately and seem to be out of control with my eating habits.

> Eventually I need to figure out why I crave all that junk and how to

> stop it. I never did a cleanse before (I'm in my 40'is)

> So, I'm not ill or overweight.

>

> The product I'm using is called " Ultimate Cleanse " by Nature's

> Secret and its supposed for Total Body Detoxification.

>

>

> And yes, since I'm jogging and doing other physical things I

> really feal my exhaustion. But otherwise I'm not feeling to bad.

>

> I was wondering how long you can safely go without food.

>

> thanks so much christa

=================================

Hi Christa,

Okay, I understand now. This sounds like a fairly decent product though

it really isn't needed to obtain what your are seeking. Cravings come

from eating foods that are not good for our body. We crave those things

which tend to stimulate our body in certain ways. Thus we crave cooked

foods (with the spices), chocolate, coffee, teas, etc. It is a viscous

circle! You take in, imbibe, or whatever and these supposed foods create

toxins within. These toxins get stored into your tissues and organs

because your body cannot eliminate them fast enough. Periodically your

body will release some of these toxins into the blood stream for

elimination and this will cause your craving for that particular food or

foods. This is just my opinion on this by the way.

You can achieve the same results doing a juice cleanse or just water

fasting. However, with water fasting alone, one should not exercise as

this defeats the purpose of fasting (your body cannot utilize the energy

being expended in excercising for detoxing and healing). With herbal

cleanses and juice cleansing it is recommended that you exercise as this

helps speed up the metabolism and forces the body to detox. My opinion

is this is not the most optimum way of detoxing and cleansing the body

as it is not the body's natural way. However, you will find much

disagreement on this topic.

As for how long you can safely go without food? That depends on what you

are doing. With doing the body clean and exercising I would not suggest

you go over 7 days without taking in fresh raw organic sweet fruits and

organic tender leafy greens. However, because you are not eating now

then you should be aware of how to break a fast properly so you don't

put yourself at risk. Break your fast gently by eating a small amount of

very juicey fruits (oranges are very good for this). Just a little bit

to allow your body to transition back to solid foods. Increase the

amount for 2 days and then go onto eating a small salad and work up. You

really do not want to shock your body too much.You will also wish to

stay as much raw as possible. This will help you overcome any cravings.

Eating lots of bananas seems to help many people with cravings. Back to

your question, under proper supervision, a person can go as much as 90+

days of fasting. I do not recommend anyone to attempt even 21 days

without proper supervision from someone who knows the ins and outs of

fasting. Typically, an extended fast will last for 21 to 30 days, but

supervised. There are many things that can crop up that you may not

understand and you can put yourself in harms way very easily. This is

why a supervised fast is highly recommended.

I hope this answers you questions.

--

Peace be with you, Christa.

Don " Quai " Eitner

" Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in the animal

and wakes in man. "

Nearly all men die of their remedies, and not of their illnesses. ~Jean

Baptiste Molière, Le Malade Imaginaire

The obstacle is the path. ~Zen Proverb

--

In compliance with the highest standards of Universal Law, this email has been

thoroughly disinfected and purified in the solar flares of the sun.

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.11/44 - Release Date: 7/8/05

[Guest guest]

Hi Don,

thanks so much for your extensive answer. I really appreciate it.

The problem is that I do crave those things, like bread, chocolate,

coffee even if I have none of this for month. Even now the most I

want is bread or baked sweets. I think there is an emotional factor

involved and I need to find out. I'm afraid as soon as I start eating

this is what I want.

I've tried to eat healthy so many times and nothing lasts.

Thanks for the input in exercise to. Makes sense. I try to cut

down as much as possible. This is part of my work and lifestyle which

is hard to break.

I also appreciate much your ideas how to break the fast. I was

wondering about this and your tips are of help.

Wow, 90 days of fasting. This is an incredible amount of time. I'm

not sure if I last for 7 days. Today is my fifth day and I just take

it day by day.

thanks so much especially since I'm not active on this list.

But I'm on here for quite some time and try to learn.

thanks christa

We crave those things

> which tend to stimulate our body in certain ways. Thus we crave

cooked

> foods (with the spices), chocolate, coffee, teas, etc. It is a

viscous

> circle! You take in, imbibe, or whatever and these supposed foods

create

> toxins within. These toxins get stored into your tissues and organs

> because your body cannot eliminate them fast enough. Periodically

your

> body will release some of these toxins into the blood stream for

> elimination and this will cause your craving for that particular

food or

> foods. This is just my opinion on this by the way.

>

> You can achieve the same results doing a juice cleanse or just

water

> fasting. However, with water fasting alone, one should not exercise

as

> this defeats the purpose of fasting (your body cannot utilize the

energy

> being expended in excercising for detoxing and healing). With

herbal

> cleanses and juice cleansing it is recommended that you exercise as

this

> helps speed up the metabolism and forces the body to detox. My

opinion

> is this is not the most optimum way of detoxing and cleansing the

body

> as it is not the body's natural way. However, you will find much

> disagreement on this topic.

>

> As for how long you can safely go without food? That depends on

what you

> are doing. With doing the body clean and exercising I would not

suggest

> you go over 7 days without taking in fresh raw organic sweet fruits

and

> organic tender leafy greens. However, because you are not eating

now

> then you should be aware of how to break a fast properly so you

don't

> put yourself at risk. Break your fast gently by eating a small

amount of

> very juicey fruits (oranges are very good for this). Just a little

bit

> to allow your body to transition back to solid foods. Increase the

> amount for 2 days and then go onto eating a small salad and work

up. You

> really do not want to shock your body too much.You will also wish

to

> stay as much raw as possible. This will help you overcome any

cravings.

> Eating lots of bananas seems to help many people with cravings.

Back to

> your question, under proper supervision, a person can go as much as

90+

> days of fasting. I do not recommend anyone to attempt even 21 days

> without proper supervision from someone who knows the ins and outs

of

> fasting. Typically, an extended fast will last for 21 to 30 days,

but

> supervised. There are many things that can crop up that you may not

> understand and you can put yourself in harms way very easily. This

is

> why a supervised fast is highly recommended.

>

> I hope this answers you questions.

>

> --

> Peace be with you, Christa.

>

> Don " Quai " Eitner

>

> " Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in

the animal and wakes in man. "

>

> Nearly all men die of their remedies, and not of their illnesses.

~Baptiste Molière, Le Malade Imaginaire

>

> The obstacle is the path. ~Zen Proverb

>

>

>

>

> --

> In compliance with the highest standards of Universal Law, this

email has been thoroughly disinfected and purified in the solar

flares of the sun.

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.11/44 - Release Date:

7/8/05

[Guest guest]

Hi Don,

thanks for your reply. The reality is if cravings could be overcome

so easily by will power, we wouldn't have such a huge percentage of

obese people in this country. For some people there is a little more to

it.Or people wouldn't destroy themselves with cigarettes and more.

I started EFT work about 3 month ago. It seemed to have helped a

little bit with some issues, and lot of times seems to help short term,

so I keep doing it and see if I have some success. I have nothing to

loose.

I went to the Sweat lodge last night and it was very interesting.

christa

[Guest guest]

hovipups wrote:

> Hi Don,

>

> thanks for your reply. The reality is if cravings could be overcome

> so easily by will power, we wouldn't have such a huge percentage of

> obese people in this country. For some people there is a little more to

> it.Or people wouldn't destroy themselves with cigarettes and more.

>

> I started EFT work about 3 month ago. It seemed to have helped a

> little bit with some issues, and lot of times seems to help short term,

> so I keep doing it and see if I have some success. I have nothing to

> loose.

>

>

> I went to the Sweat lodge last night and it was very interesting.

>

> christa

==================================

Hi Christa,

Yes you may be right. I believe though, that if more people would

exercise their will power then yes, it would be that easy. However, from

my perspective, most folks don't bother with will power. They don't

believe, or they don't think they have or whatever. I do believe it is

very easy to overcome cravings but it does take will power and the will

is one of those divine gifts we all have that we must exercise and

perfect the use of. Just my opinion though and not necessarily the

opinion of the management of HAWK!!!! or KTRO or...... LOL

I really think people destroy themselves out of ignorance. Ignorance of

truth, ignorance of natural laws, ignorance of cosmic laws, etc.

Keep on working with the EFT. Keep honing your affirmations till you get

them exact too. From my understanding this is a large part of the

success or lack of in EFT.

I love sweat lodge. I miss them too. Attending a sweat lodge is a

remarkable experience. Very nice for the body, mind, spirit. I do hope

that you enjoyed it and will you be returning at some point?

--

Peace be with you, Christa.

Don " Quai " Eitner

" Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in the animal

and wakes in man. "

Nearly all men die of their remedies, and not of their illnesses. ~Jean

Baptiste Molière, Le Malade Imaginaire

The obstacle is the path. ~Zen Proverb

--

In compliance with the highest standards of Universal Law, this email has been

thoroughly disinfected and purified in the solar flares of the sun.

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.11/45 - Release Date: 7/9/05