Re: mini flushes, mini attacks, and the oil cure

[Guest guest]

Sounds like it didn't work because you didn't do it completely, and

were probably under stress, not as relaxed as you would have been

under different circumstances. I also have tried doing the flush

with 1/2 amounts in the past, and only got 1/2 or less results :-)

If it has only been a couple days

since you finished your preparation for the flush, ie. drinking apple

juice for a week or whatever, you could go ahead and do this right

away again, if you're home over the next couple days.

L. Meydrech, CN

http://nutritionist.tripod.com/gallbladder.html ~ My Flushes

http://nutritionist.tripod.com ~ Journey to Health & Auctions

" A cheerful heart is good medicine " Prov. 17:22a

Howdy folks, I just returned from a two week emergency trip to

support my family in the last days of a dying relative, attend the

funeral, etc. My gall bladder did not realize I was on vacation. Ha!

I had planned a cleanse the weekend I left, so decided to mini the

flush and here is what happened. I halved the amount of ES and mixed

it with apple juice. (I was on the road) Had the oil, juice mixture

an hour late. Only had one ES dose the next morning. 1/2 at that.

After half as many trips to the bathroom, I passed one stone and a

lot of grapefruit looking pouches. You know that hold the juice. Can

anyone explain why this did not work? I am flushing again this

weekend.

[Guest guest]

>>Why do I only get my attacks in

the middle of the night, many hours after I have had offending

substance? I have never had one in the day.<<

This was my experience too, and I could never figure it out. I NEVER had an

attack in the daytime. I would take olive oil too, and it did help for a

while. (Eventually, it didn't matter how good my diet was, the attacks were

happening like clockwork every other night, and the after effects of the

Percoset the next day left me almost non-functioning.)

Debra

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

It is because you are lying down at night, a position that allows

stones to find their way to the opening of the gall bladder. When you

are upright, the gall bladder is " hanging " in a way that does not as

easily allow stones to float or " roll " to the opening. I used

this to " my advantage " if you can call it that. Before things got so

bad that anything I ate triggered trouble, I would eat things that had

fat only if it was about 5 or so hours before going to bed, and took

digestive enzymes and fat absorbing product I use. After flushing

a week ago today, I am doing so much better.

L. Meydrech, CN

http://nutritionist.tripod.com/gallbladder.html ~ My Flushes

http://nutritionist.tripod.com ~ Journey to Health & Auctions

" A cheerful heart is good medicine " Prov. 17:22a

----- Original Message -----

From: D B

gallstones

Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:14 AM

Subject: Re: mini flushes, mini attacks, and the oil cure

>>Why do I only get my attacks in

the middle of the night, many hours after I have had offending

substance? I have never had one in the day.<<

This was my experience too, and I could never figure it out. I NEVER had an

attack in the daytime. I would take olive oil too, and it did help for a

while. (Eventually, it didn't matter how good my diet was, the attacks were

happening like clockwork every other night, and the after effects of the

Percoset the next day left me almost non-functioning.)

Debra

[Guest guest]

This is exactly what is happening to me as well. Colic pain only in

the middle of the night. answered it very well with

the 'lying down to sleep' answer. This is most likely the reason for

night time colic. I have even more to add and it may make sense to

someone suffering this way. Here is my personal experience...

I've noticed that the night time colic action depends on not only

what I eat before bed but also what is going on in my entire

digestive tract. I eliminate stool every morning at 8 am like

clockwork (wonderful body timer). The morning BM's also have

something to do with my colic.

Eating breakfast, lunch, and even a light dinner will fill my

digestive system up and then at night the bile will want to extract

and 'coat' the entire food that has entered that day. Bile helps to

create the stool and give it it's color. I think some of that

processing from bile is happening at more times than just after foods

enter the gastrointestinal area. I have noticed that on the rare

occasion that I have had BM's early evening, the rest of the dinner

food is moving at night while I sleep and the colic doesn't come.

So, in some ways, my having a full digestive system aides in the bile

amount that wants to contract out of my gb in the night. As the gb

depletes it's bile, the stone will move into the mouth of the gb

wanting to exit and therefore creating the colic attack.

I have also read on a site somewhere that the liver is working harder

to process as we sleep. Maybe blood slowing down also has something

to do with that. Also, not drinking while you sleep will slowly

absorb more water out of the bile that is sitting in the gb. Many

things come to mind now.

I've also tried sleeping on right side or left side alnight and have

noticed that left or right both brings the colic. Since the gb is

airless, my stone will usually cause colic as the gb is emptied of

it's bile and wants to rid the stone as well. Lighter or heavier

stone theory (laying on right for lighter floating stone - left side

for heavier stone while flushing) doesn't work for my stone. Since

the gb is a closed system without air, the bottle theory is hard to

except.

Just a thought. I'd like to research and know how many people with

night time colic are eliminating stool in the mornings generally.

Barry.

>

>

> >>Why do I only get my attacks in

> the middle of the night, many hours after I have had offending

> substance? I have never had one in the day.<<

>

> This was my experience too, and I could never figure it out. I

NEVER had an

> attack in the daytime. I would take olive oil too, and it did help

for a

> while. (Eventually, it didn't matter how good my diet was, the

attacks were

> happening like clockwork every other night, and the after effects

of the

> Percoset the next day left me almost non-functioning.)

>

> Debra

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

I ususally do in the morning too. I have noticed that my eliminations

are now more regular and more frequent since I started cleansing. My

attacks have been farther apart and much much more mild. But, if I

eat a very bad greasy food at dinner, I can expect the attack. Dawn

>

> Just a thought. I'd like to research and know how many people with

> night time colic are eliminating stool in the mornings generally.

>

> Barry.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dawn,

Have you had an ultrasound to see what is the size and number of

stones you are dealing with inside of your gallbladder?

For me, a few days and up to one week after a flush, I usually have

minimal or no colic. The oil effect in my body keeps me sort

of 'lubbed' up. After the oil is out of my system, the colic returns

as usual. The same happens after antispasmodic medication. If I go

into ER and get a shot for pain, it usually takes two days to process

through the blood stream and exit the urine. After the third day,

it's back to normal colic.

So, knowing your body, the colic, and 'knowing your stone' is good

for you so that you can understand how to best attack the problem the

right way.

Good luck,

Barry.

> I ususally do in the morning too. I have noticed that my

eliminations

> are now more regular and more frequent since I started cleansing.

My

> attacks have been farther apart and much much more mild. But, if I

> eat a very bad greasy food at dinner, I can expect the attack. Dawn

>

> >

> > Just a thought. I'd like to research and know how many people

with

> > night time colic are eliminating stool in the mornings generally.

> >

> > Barry.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, I had one, but they did not tell me how many or what size. I saw

several, but I do not know how big or small they were. Dawn

> Dawn,

>

> Have you had an ultrasound to see what is the size and number of

> stones you are dealing with inside of your gallbladder?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Is there any way that you can ask your doctor? All ultrasound scans

can tell you exactly what size the stones are that show up on the

picture. It is important to know so that you know exactly what you

are really facing.

Barry

> > Dawn,

> >

> > Have you had an ultrasound to see what is the size and number of

> > stones you are dealing with inside of your gallbladder?

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Well, where we are, a radiologist reads the results of the ultrasound

and sends the report to the Dr. I read the report myself and it said

nothing about how many or what size. My Dr is antagonistic to

cleansing. He thinks I'll be in for surgery. I hope to prove him

wrong. Dawn

> > > Dawn,

> > >

> > > Have you had an ultrasound to see what is the size and number

of

> > > stones you are dealing with inside of your gallbladder?

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/6/02 11:11:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, nortons@...

writes:

> Well, where we are, a radiologist reads the results of the ultrasound

> and sends the report to the Dr. I read the report myself and it said

> nothing about how many or what size. My Dr is antagonistic to

> cleansing. He thinks I'll be in for surgery. I hope to prove him

> wrong. Dawn

>

Would you consider finding a new doctor? It's one thing for a doctor to not

'believe' in flushing, but to actually be antagonistic is another matter

entirely. If it's possible for you to find another medical professional, it

might be conducive to your health and healing to find one that is at least

willing to respect your right to choose what you feel is best for your own

body.

just my ..02 I hope you prove him wrong also!

rachel~

" Live your dreams now. Life is not a dress rehearsal. "

[Guest guest]

Hi Barry

No, the report definitely didn't include any specifics. When the surgeon

showed me the films he just referred to an " area " that had the stones, not a

specific point where there was A stone. This leads me to believe that maybe

it was sludge he was seeing and not stones.

As for getting a radiologist to look at it..... I don't know how things work

where you are, but around here there's no such thing as just stopping in to

have someone look at the films. There would need to be a medical reason for

it and I currently don't have one.

I suppose I could take advantage of the next time (if there is one) that I

have a GB attack and go in and have tests done again. But to me that's close

to insurance fraud and I don't really want to go there.

I did see that site when you posted it and while I found it interesting, I

didn't really see anything that looked exactly like my own. Thanks for the

suggestion, though.

I appreciate your response. Well thought out, as usual.

in health,

rachel~

In a message dated 4/6/02 9:59:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,

barry91162@... writes:

> Your written report definitely should have included the size and

> number of visable stones. From the scanned picture you can tell by

> two ways. First way would be if it has a scale on the frames of the

> pictures that tells you how big it is, etc. Sometimes you will see

> little +'s and X's where they have measured the stone for size.

> If it doesn't have sizes on scale at the side of the scan picture you

> will have to just judge it by the size of your gallbladder vs. the

> stone sizes. My gallbladder was measured 12cm by 4cm.

> This is the only way I know of on how to get sizes from the pictures

> unless you just took the picture in to the radiologist and asked him

> about sizes on the picture. His trained eye should be able to tell

> you more or less (to the mm) what the size is. A specialist doctor in

> gastrology should be able to do that also.

>

> The white stone that shows on ultrasound should look like a half moon

> or nearly full moon shape. I posted a link here last month to a site

> with several ultrasound pictures of stones. You can compare it to

> that site as well. I don't remember the site because I have lost it

> in my files but you can find it by paging back about 4 to 6 weeks ago

> I believe. That site also describes the type of stones, etc. It says

> that 90% of white ultrasound stones are cholesterol based. Not

> calcium like I previuosly believed.

> A cluster of stones on ultrasound will probably look more like a

> cluster with not so rounded edges of a moon shaped object. But once

> again, a trained eye could reveil that to you.

>

> Good luck. Find that site and you will probably see an almost perfect

> example picture of an ultrasound gallstone comparison to yours.

> There are several pictures posted there. I found what looks exactly

> like mine there.

>

>

" Live your dreams now. Life is not a dress rehearsal. "

[Guest guest]

Is there any way for you to go into a radiologist office in your area

and ask for ultrasound? Some schools also provide that service for a

very cheap price. I think your doctor should at least explain to you

what the scan shows in size and number of stones. Just by looking at

the picture you can get that information. The relation to the size of

the gallbladder is generally the way to measure. Of course, the

ultrasound has it's own measuring built it that shows on the side of

the scan. Good luck. It's always good to know exactly what you are

battling against inside your body. That doctors vague attitude would

be enough for me to find another doctor. He doesn't seem too helpful

in answering the patients questions.

Barry.

> > > > Dawn,

> > > >

> > > > Have you had an ultrasound to see what is the size and number

> of

> > > > stones you are dealing with inside of your gallbladder?

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Your written report definitely should have included the size and

number of visable stones. From the scanned picture you can tell by

two ways. First way would be if it has a scale on the frames of the

pictures that tells you how big it is, etc. Sometimes you will see

little +'s and X's where they have measured the stone for size.

If it doesn't have sizes on scale at the side of the scan picture you

will have to just judge it by the size of your gallbladder vs. the

stone sizes. My gallbladder was measured 12cm by 4cm.

This is the only way I know of on how to get sizes from the pictures

unless you just took the picture in to the radiologist and asked him

about sizes on the picture. His trained eye should be able to tell

you more or less (to the mm) what the size is. A specialist doctor in

gastrology should be able to do that also.

The white stone that shows on ultrasound should look like a half moon

or nearly full moon shape. I posted a link here last month to a site

with several ultrasound pictures of stones. You can compare it to

that site as well. I don't remember the site because I have lost it

in my files but you can find it by paging back about 4 to 6 weeks ago

I believe. That site also describes the type of stones, etc. It says

that 90% of white ultrasound stones are cholesterol based. Not

calcium like I previuosly believed.

A cluster of stones on ultrasound will probably look more like a

cluster with not so rounded edges of a moon shaped object. But once

again, a trained eye could reveil that to you.

Good luck. Find that site and you will probably see an almost perfect

example picture of an ultrasound gallstone comparison to yours.

There are several pictures posted there. I found what looks exactly

like mine there.

Barry.

> In a message dated 4/5/02 11:09:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> barry91162@y... writes:

>

>

> > ? All ultrasound scans

> > can tell you exactly what size the stones are that show up on the

> > picture. It is important to know so that you know exactly what

you

> > are really facing.

> >

>

> My written report didn't indicate the size of any stones, (just

said

> " multiple gallstones). I still have the films, though. Is there a

way to

> tell from looking at it? I mean, other than eyeballing. I guess

what I'm

> asking is - is there something in the notations on the films

themselves that

> might indicate something to me? When I look at the picture and

see the

> white spots, how do I know if they are large stones and not just

clumps of

> stones? I know you're not a radiologist, but you've probably had

the most

> experience at looking at these things, so any thoughts you might

have in that

> direction would be welcome.

>

> thanks,

> rachel~

> " Live your dreams now. Life is not a dress rehearsal. "

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I live in a very small town, 3 hours from the nearest city. But, I

can probably contact the radiologist and see if he can answer these

questions. THanks for the suggestion. Each ultrasound here is around

$350 so it really adds up. Dawn

> Is there any way for you to go into a radiologist office in your

area

> and ask for ultrasound?

[Guest guest]

Since he is the only Dr in 45 miles, no. And the Dr.s there are in

huge practices where you never see the same one twice. He loves his

patient though. He has been the town Dr for 50 years. On occasion, we

need a Dr, right now, and he fills that need. We rarely use

allopathic medicine anyway. I am seeing and consulting with a

naturopath in Tucson 3 hours away. I am having a phone consult with

him and will discuss some of these things. If my " in town " Dr knew I

was seeing a Naturopath, he would drop me. So I keep from him what he

does not need to know and wouldn't approve of anyway. Dawn

But, PS, if I were in a big city, he would probably not be a

consideration for my Dr.

>

> Would you consider finding a new doctor? It's one thing for a

doctor to not

> 'believe' in flushing, but to actually be antagonistic is another

matter

> entirely. If it's possible for you to find another medical

professional, it

> might be conducive to your health and healing to find one that is

at least

> willing to respect your right to choose what you feel is best for

your own

> body.

> just my ..02 I hope you prove him wrong also!

> rachel~

> " Live your dreams now. Life is not a dress rehearsal. "

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for the advice. I have always had only one BM a day and

usually in the mornings. There are times when I have an afternoon one

as well if I have eaten a lot. I just don't see having a BM after

every meal, 3 times a day. Maybe it would help my colic if I did but

the whole process of my body seems to be working on a one a day

elimination. A bowel cleanse could help. I'll look into that more.

Thanks for the info.

Barry.

> barry91162@y... writes:

> > I have noticed that on the rare

> > occasion that I have had BM's early evening, the rest of the

dinner

> > food is moving at night while I sleep and the colic doesn't come.

> > So, in some ways, my having a full digestive system aides in the

bile

> > amount that wants to contract out of my gb in the night. As the

gb

> > depletes it's bile, the stone will move into the mouth of the gb

> > wanting to exit and therefore creating the colic attack.

>

> Barry

> I know we've discussed this before and that you believe that one

bowel

> movement a day is fine. But considering what you've just written,

it would

> seem to be an option to check into bowel cleansing in order to get

your

> bowels moving more than once a day. Many sources indicate that

there should

> be a BM for every meal that we eat, meaning that 3 a day would be

optimal if

> you are eating three meals a day regularly.

>

> It makes a lot of sense to me that your GB attacks are influenced

by the

> amount of food in your system, so maybe getting those bowels moving

more

> regularly than once a day would eliminate the attacks as well?

I'd think it

> was worth checking into, especially since your history of GB

attacks is so

> severe.

>

> This is what Dr. Schulze says in relation to his Intestinal

Formula:

> " This formula can be taken for a week, a month or the rest of your

life.

> Continue to use this formula until you are having one bowel

movement each day

> for every meal you eat, between. 2 and 4 bowel movements a day are

normal. "

> <A

HREF= " http://www.learnhealth.org/patient/intestinal.htm#1 " >http://www.

learnhealth.org/patient/intestinal.htm#1</A>

>

> And he's not the type to say that just to sell the formula - he's a

man who

> is genuinely concerned with people's health and well-being.

>

> Just thought I'd offer that thought to you as another avenue that

you might

> explore - since you already brought up the bowel movements

yourself.

>

> in health,

> rachel~

>

>

>

>