Re: eating whatever you want - surgery decisions

[Guest guest]

<<But, as surgery do carry a risk of some other (irreparable) problems, every

person will have to follow his/her gut feeling ...

The best is, if you can manage you problems with alternatives.

(there are also other alternatives, rarely discussed here ...)

If you can not, then you just have to choose what you think can be better

....>>

I agree with.

Physicians/surgeons make statements which lead you to believe that surgery is

your only alternative and they lead you to believe that you must take that

route immediately and that you have to make that decision right now! Also,

often times the physician uses fear as a motivater and when lab results back

up their conclusion, the fear factor can be difficult to overcome. I know.

The doc had the lab results that the flesh taken out of me was cancer.

Whether it is a GB, cancer, bypass, or whatever, there are alternatives.

This list is providing excellent support and alternatives for GB

difficulties, though they may not work in every case. In many other surgery

cases there are alternatives as well.

Here's the route I finally went after discovering that I had cancer and was

told that surgery would " cure " my cancer. (I even had a rubber stamp second

opinion by another surgeon, outside of the original doctor's clinic - as was

required by my insurance company.) I learned everything that I could learn

about my cancer. I called the cancer hotline (free) and chatted with an RN

for about 30 minutes. This woman knew as much about the cancer I had as did

my surgeon. She also sent me in the mail a large package that contained all

of the current medical information that was available on my specific

condition, including all the most current information in print that was

available to my surgeon. This information gave me tremendous insight into my

condition and made me aware that instead of the rush rush surgery decision

that my physician led me to believe was my only option, that I had time to

consider alternatives. My mind was becoming made up at this point, but I

still had one more thing I wanted to do before finally saying no to surgery.

I made an appointment with an oncologist - one who did not do surgery! My

visit to him was very enlightening. The oncologist was in the same clinic as

the surgeon who recommended surgery, yet the oncologist basically said that

he recommend that I not have surgery - which was what I had already

concluded. That was 10 or 11 years ago and I still have my prostate. I

watched the signs very closely for a few years and still have tests made

annually, but I didn't give away a body part.

A summary of my own view on surgery when confronted with the situation.

1. Get all the information that you can about your condition. The cancer

hot-line is a source for that disease, but every surgical procedure has

information well beyond what your surgeon is giving you. Today the Internet

is a wealth of information not only of alternative medicine, but regular

medical information as well. After I got my package from the cancer hot-line

and met for the final time with my doctor and told him no (I actually

canceled a scheduled surgery date), I discovered that he wasn't even aware of

some of the most current medical information that I had in my package. (He

also yelled at me when I canceled the surgery date. But I now look back at

that as my taking charge of my body, which he was trying to wrest away from

me.)

2. Get a second, or even a third opinion and don't go to a surgeon for that

opinion. There are many internists or oncologists (for cancer) who don't do

surgery who are in the business of diagnosis and don't depend on surgery for

their income. All insurance will support or even require a second opinion,

and most will go beyond that.

3. Above all, don't be intimidated by a medical care provider of any kind,

traditional or alternative. It's your body. It's your life. With the

information and professional support you have gathered, you can make your own

decision for better or worse, but taking control is a healing in itself.

4. Lastly, don't let family talk you into something that you don't want to

do. Sometimes family or partners can be more difficult to deal with than

your health care provider. You have to live or die with your decision and

your body, your family doesn't.

While I tend to support MDs on this list for some things, I don't regard them

as gods. What I don't like is any " health " care that is in it for the

almighty dollar, and greed isn't limited to MDs. I wouldn't be on this list

if I didn't support the flushes. I'm in the middle of #18, and I continue to

have ancillary success from most all of them.

Jay

[Guest guest]

<<What kind of a specialist would I need to see to know if lithotripsy was an

option

for me? Internal medicine? Dawn>>

I don't know if an internist (a practitioner of internal medicine) would be

the right one, but you can't miss with one for starters. Here is an

understandable definition of internal medicine that I picked up from a web

site. Notice that they do not do surgery. My understanding is that they are

a basic diagnostician of all systems of the body and that they will then

direct you to a specialist dealing in your condition if they can't resolve it

themselves.

From the website:

" Internal Medicine:

Health maintenance and prevention, diagnosis and non-surgical treatment of

diseases in adult patients based on knowledge and application of basic

medical sciences, including, but not limited to, physiology, microbiology,

pathology, biochemistry, pharmacology and genetics. "

They are not interns, which is a brand new medical school grad.

Dawn, I'm glad that you ask so many questions of your health care providers.

Let them get pissed. The way I feel about it is that I am paying their bill

and have always felt that way about it even though insurance may be paying

the major portion. In all cases, it is the patient who is paying the

insurance premiums too. I could tell many stories of the bad experiences

that I've had with MDs over the years, (I've had many good ones too) but for

me the solution has been quite easy. I either don't follow lousy advice, or,

I fire the doctor by going to another one. I've done that several times.

Yet I feel that jumping from doc to doc (traditional or alternative) is a

symptom of a problem too. My mother did it and she was a hypochondriac,

would go from one to another until they found something wrong with her.

By the way, one of the symptoms (not always) of a heart disorder is an

enlarged heart. That's why when you were in the ER with a possible heart

attack they wanted to take an X-ray. They can tell by the X-ray if it is

enlarged, and I think that they can also sometimes tell if it has been

damaged by an attack. They should have been in a communication mode and

explained what they were doing and should have responded to your questions in

a civil manner. I have had many physicians that will do that, even in the

current day of 2 minute office visits.

Jay

[Guest guest]

t was corrected with a simple outpatient

procedure. Used to be open heart but of course I wouldn't hear of

that! I waited until it was improved. I wanted to find alternative

treatment, but did not know where to turn. 7 years ago there was not

much on the internet. Dawn

Dawn,

I'm sorry that I missed your post about what was wrong with your heart. I

deleted a bunch of e-mails because I simply didn't have time for them, among

a few other reasons. So what type of procedure did you have? I'm kind of

interested because heart disease is in my family. My mother had congestive

heart failure, she had a mummer that was discovered late in her life. My

daddy died of a blood clot, I guess, but he had high blood pressure.

Thanks,

Susie

[Guest guest]

Jay, what a great post. I am not a very compliant patient. I ask

questions about everything and I am not liked for it. I still

remember when I was in the ER for a heart condition I had. I turned

down a chest x-ray because I knew it had nothing to do with my lungs

which is why they ordered the x-ray. The look on the nurse's face was

beyond shock. Then when I asked a thousand questions when my 6 week

old daughter was about to be subjected to a spinal tap, the Dr became

irate. I told her I was just asking these questions because I was a

concerned parent. She very nastily said, " if you weren't a concerned

parent, we'd be doing even more tests. " I wanted to slap her. My

daughter ended up avoiding the test because she had RSV. What kind of

a specialist would I need to see to know if lithotripsy was an option

for me? Internal medicine? Dawn

>

> 2. Get a second, or even a third opinion and don't go to a surgeon

for that

> opinion. There are many internists or oncologists (for cancer) who

don't do

> surgery who are in the business of diagnosis and don't depend on

surgery for

> their income. All insurance will support or even require a second

opinion,

> and most will go beyond that.

>

[Guest guest]

Also, I would stop fainting and not be at risk of

dropping my babies or falling down the stairs. It wasn't heart

disease in the traditional sense. A congenital problem. Like silent

gallstones, some people live with it all their lives and never know.

Others have mild to severe problems. Dawn

Thank you, Dawn, for responding. For my mother who had a mummer, would you

call that heart disease? I don't know much about it. She never had high

blood pressure at all.

Thanks,

Susie

[Guest guest]

>>Physicians/surgeons make statements which lead you to believe that surgery

>>is

your only alternative and they lead you to believe that you must take that

route immediately and that you have to make that decision right now! Also,

often times the physician uses fear as a motivater and when lab results back

up their conclusion, the fear factor can be difficult to overcome. <<

I agree with this. During my first trip to the emergency room, the doctor

told me that I would need to schedule surgery soon, yadda, yadda.... Well,

although I did have surgery, it wasn't for another three years, with no

lasting ill effects. They do not give you the option of taking time to

explore alternatives.

Debra

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[Guest guest]

Thanks Jay, I'll be looking for a Dr of Internal Medicine. My heart

disorder was electrical. I knew it and so did they. In all other

aspects I was healthy. It was corrected with a simple outpatient

procedure. Used to be open heart but of course I wouldn't hear of

that! I waited until it was improved. I wanted to find alternative

treatment, but did not know where to turn. 7 years ago there was not

much on the internet. Dawn

>

> By the way, one of the symptoms (not always) of a heart disorder is

an

> enlarged heart. That's why when you were in the ER with a possible

heart

> attack they wanted to take an X-ray. They can tell by the X-ray if

it is

> enlarged, and I think that they can also sometimes tell if it has

been

> damaged by an attack. They should have been in a communication

mode and

> explained what they were doing and should have responded to your

questions in

> a civil manner. I have had many physicians that will do that, even

in the

> current day of 2 minute office visits.

>

> Jay

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Susie,

I had an electrical problem called WPW. They went up my main

artery in the groin? up into the heart and electrically " burned " the

spot causing trouble, closing off the extra pathway so I would not go

into fibrillation. Also, I would stop fainting and not be at risk of

dropping my babies or falling down the stairs. It wasn't heart

disease in the traditional sense. A congenital problem. Like silent

gallstones, some people live with it all their lives and never know.

Others have mild to severe problems. Dawn

> Dawn,

> I'm sorry that I missed your post about what was wrong with your

heart. I

> deleted a bunch of e-mails because I simply didn't have time for

them, among

> a few other reasons. So what type of procedure did you have? I'm

kind of

> interested because heart disease is in my family. My mother had

congestive

> heart failure, she had a mummer that was discovered late in her

life. My

> daddy died of a blood clot, I guess, but he had high blood pressure.

> Thanks,

> Susie