Re: melting point - Agne's post says it all

[Guest guest]

Barry;

Did you have yours tested? That's all I've asking. You seem to keep

" skirting " around that question by saying that 90% of all hard stones are

cholesterol stones and that they will not melt if exposed to air. You are

making an assumption that your gallstone is factually a cholesterol stone

from that tid bid of information. I don't have a problem with that. However,

it may very well be that it has some cholesterol but may also be amalgamated

in some way with other crystals to be hardened. I would be vary interested

in knowing of just what your stone consists.

Now as to my error it is you who should be pointing to the information of

which you've researched regarding the percentage of hard gallstones being

cholesterol types. I'm not " skirting " any issue here. I'm in complete

agreement that stones can be hard and contain cholesterol. However, as a

general rule gallstones of the cholesterol type are not so hard that as to

be uncrushable.

We've gone through this thought before and you seem hard bent on the thought

of bile somehow becoming a blob that then forms into a soft stone. I just

haven't found any information, nor have you provided any, to support that

proposition. You've had one gallstone that happened to be hard and because

of that everyone's stones now have to be as hard or they are nothing more

than blobs of bile. I just won't buy that.

I think that Agnes' post pretty well covers from where I come.

Dale

----- Original Message -----

From: " barry91162 " <barry91162@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 6:57 AM

Subject: Re: melting point

> Dale,

>

> Does this question mean that you believe that 90-95% of all hard

> gallstones removed from gallbladders that have been tested as

> cholesterol based instead of calcium based is invalid.

> (weither mine has been tested or not?)

>

> Barry.

>

>

>

>

> > > > > > This is a cholesterol type of stone, so it will melt, but

> the

> > > main

> > > > > reason is

> > > > > > because it is getting oxygen from the air and that is the

> main

> > > > > reason for it

> > > > > > becoming liquid again.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dale

> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > > From: " azdmarie " <nortons@v...>

> > > > > > <gallstones@y...>

> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 5:15 PM

> > > > > > Subject: melting point

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > OK, this hard beautiful green gallstone that I passed is

> now

> > > > > melting.

> > > > > > > Why would it be a solid mass inside my 97 degree body and

> > > then hit

> > > > > > > room temp and melt? Makes no sense. Has anyone actually

> seen

> > > the

> > > > > > > stones that are removed from a gb? I have a friend who had

> > > hers

> > > > > out

> > > > > > > and says she still has them. THey must not be the melting

> > > kind.

> > > > > WHich

> > > > > > > brings me to the question, if these melt, then are they

> true

> > > > > > > gallstones? DOes it make a difference whether they melt or

> > > not? I

> > > > > am

> > > > > > > fast approaching the magical 2000 stones number Hulda

> talks

> > > > > about. I

> > > > > > > realize I am probably being impatient, but I am getting

> close

> > > to 6

> > > > > > > months of severe alternative treatment of this thing. I am

> > > seeing

> > > > > > > huge overall health benefits, but still worried about my

> gb.

> > > Dawn

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver

> > > > > > > flush stories: http:///messages/gallstones-

> > > > > testimonials

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Liver Cleanse Recipe:

> http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

> > > > > > > Liver Flush FAQ: http://curezone.com/forums/forum.asp?

> > > ForumID=73

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Images:

> > > > > > > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

> > > > > > > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, sned blank e-mail to:

> > > > > > gallstones-unsubscribe@y... and then reply to confirmation

> > > > > > message!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To Post message: gallstones@y...

> > > > > > > Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe@y...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Web Sites for more information:

> > > > > > > http://DrHulda.org

> > > > > > > http://DrHulda.com

> > > > > > > http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> > > > > > > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

> > > > > > > http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm

> > > > > > > http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

> > > > > > > http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Group page: gallstones

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To change your subscription to digest send blank e-mail

> to:

> > > > > > gallstones-digest@y...

> > > > > > > To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank e-mail

> to:

> > > > > > gallstones-nomail@y...

> > > > > > > To change your subscription to NORMAL send blank e-mail

> to:

> > > > > > gallstones-normal@y...

> > > > > > > You are receiving this email because you elected to

> subscribe

> > > to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you

> > > agree

> > > > > to hold

> > > > > > yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

> > > > > > > Have a nice day !

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Barry,

I just had a thought to add to Dale's comment below. Remember that I had the

same exact pain after surgery, as before. In my second liver cleanse, post GB

surgery, (if I'm remembering correctly), I passed about a 1.5 cm pea green bumpy

rounded stone. It was crusty on the outside( like toasted bread), and soft and

mushy on the inside. That was the largest one I passed...and the " hardest, " but

it most likely was the one that was causing most of my pain, because after I

passed it, I had no more pain. It just seems logical to me, that this was in

fact a stone, whether or not its source was my GB or liver. It certainly got my

attention by the amount of pain it caused.

Adrienne

Dale <Da_@...> wrote:

You've had one gallstone that happened to be hard and because

of that everyone's stones now have to be as hard or they are nothing more

than blobs of bile. I just won't buy that.

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Dale,

Once again, the issue is not if my hard gallstone has been tested

when the research shows that thousands of hard gallstones have been

tested and the results indicate that 90% of hard gallstones contain

at least 70% or more calcium. To say that Dawns 'stone' melts in air

because it is 'cholesterol' is not accurate in any way.

Also, before I provide information on my 'tested' removed stone would

you provide the proof that Dawn asked you for as far as her 'stone'

melting in air because it is cholesterol.

To answer your question now, NO. The doctor could tell by breaking

the stone open that it was mostly (over 70%) cholesterol based. They

have knowledge by experience and study that we don't have so readily

available to us laymen. I will take a piece into a lab and ask them

to test for certian and every element they can find and report back

to the group with my findings.

HARD FACTS:

Once again, hard gallstones are in 90%-95% of the cases of removed

gallstones cholesterol (over 70%) based stones. They classify the

stone to be cholesterol if it is over 70% cholesterol tested after

removal.

It may have other substances as well (protein for example) but it is

considered cholesterol instead of calcium.

I've supplied enough information to support the theory that there are

different types of bile. Soft and hard. Balls or gallstones. Weither

you want to except what they are or not is up to your own personal

choice. You can read the hundreds of testimonies on cleanse sites to

reach your own conclusions. In summary...

Gallstones that remain in the gallbladder and create colic attacks

are found to be hard when removed by surgery. Stones that are

cholesterol or calcium based can be hard or crusty hard shelled.

These 'hard' stones rarely come out with the thousands of

soft 'stones' during flushing. Can they? Sure they can. Definitely

yes but it is very rare. Worth the try? Sure, anything is worth the

try. Results; unfortunately the flush is not as successful in

removing these types of hard gallbladder stones. While thousands of

soft bile balls come out during flushing the 'problem' stone that is

too hard and big to exit remains. Also, they are easily reaccuring if

continual lifetime flushing is not maintained. Dieting has only a

slowing effect on the reaccurance of these types of problem stones

once they begin to form in the gb.

Soft throughout blobs, globs, balls, or 'stones' if you must are not

hard gallstones but infact only bile that is released from the liver

in it's regular state. Methods can excellerate the exiting of this

bile to form what we assimulate as gallstones. But the real gallstone

remains as well as the pain.

You be the judge. I'm not going to do that for you.

Good luck in your search for health, truth, happiness, and painless

eating.

Barry.

> > > > > > > This is a cholesterol type of stone, so it will melt,

but

> > the

> > > > main

> > > > > > reason is

> > > > > > > because it is getting oxygen from the air and that is

the

> > main

> > > > > > reason for it

> > > > > > > becoming liquid again.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dale

> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > > > From: " azdmarie " <nortons@v...>

> > > > > > > <gallstones@y...>

> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 5:15 PM

> > > > > > > Subject: melting point

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > OK, this hard beautiful green gallstone that I passed

is

> > now

> > > > > > melting.

> > > > > > > > Why would it be a solid mass inside my 97 degree body

and

> > > > then hit

> > > > > > > > room temp and melt? Makes no sense. Has anyone

actually

> > seen

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > stones that are removed from a gb? I have a friend

who had

> > > > hers

> > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > and says she still has them. THey must not be the

melting

> > > > kind.

> > > > > > WHich

> > > > > > > > brings me to the question, if these melt, then are

they

> > true

> > > > > > > > gallstones? DOes it make a difference whether they

melt or

> > > > not? I

> > > > > > am

> > > > > > > > fast approaching the magical 2000 stones number Hulda

> > talks

> > > > > > about. I

> > > > > > > > realize I am probably being impatient, but I am

getting

> > close

> > > > to 6

> > > > > > > > months of severe alternative treatment of this thing.

I am

> > > > seeing

> > > > > > > > huge overall health benefits, but still worried about

my

> > gb.

> > > > Dawn

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver

> > > > > > > > flush stories:

http:///messages/gallstones-

> > > > > > testimonials

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Liver Cleanse Recipe:

> > http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

> > > > > > > > Liver Flush FAQ: http://curezone.com/forums/forum.asp?

> > > > ForumID=73

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Images:

> > > > > > > > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

> > > > > > > > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, sned blank e-mail to:

> > > > > > > gallstones-unsubscribe@y... and then reply to

confirmation

> > > > > > > message!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To Post message: gallstones@y...

> > > > > > > > Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe@y...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Web Sites for more information:

> > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.org

> > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.com

> > > > > > > > http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> > > > > > > > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

> > > > > > > > http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm

> > > > > > > > http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

> > > > > > > > http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Group page: gallstones

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To change your subscription to digest send blank e-

mail

> > to:

> > > > > > > gallstones-digest@y...

> > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank e-

mail

> > to:

> > > > > > > gallstones-nomail@y...

> > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NORMAL send blank e-

mail

> > to:

> > > > > > > gallstones-normal@y...

> > > > > > > > You are receiving this email because you elected to

> > subscribe

> > > > to

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list

you

> > > > agree

> > > > > > to hold

> > > > > > > yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

> > > > > > > > Have a nice day !

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Adrienne,

Don't question your stone for a minute. What you had was definitely a

stone that was left over from surgery. I believe it could come from

your gb or could have been stuck in your common duct. It is rare that

a stone like that would come from the liver. Maybe that was the

entire case of your pre-sugery pain. Maybe your gallbladder was ok

and a flush would have worked besides surgery. An ultrasound may have

helped you to determine where the stone was that was blocking your

duct weither it was in the common duct or in the gb and you may have

been able to avoid surgery.

The key is to eliminate colic bilinary pain. Have you tested your

body to see if that stone was in fact created by your gb or your

liver? If you don't have any more pain since then it is probable that

the stone was formed in your gb and got larger or stuck in your duct

before gb removal. If the colic remains than it is likely that the

ducts are getting sludged with new small stones or the liver is the

problem. Have you had more colic since the left over gallstone was

removed?

Barry.

>

> You've had one gallstone that happened to be hard and because

> of that everyone's stones now have to be as hard or they are

nothing more

> than blobs of bile. I just won't buy that.

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Barry,

I did have an ultrasound before surgery. The only thing that showed up on

ultrasound was sludge, no visible larger stones. And the lab report, as I

stated previously, stated that my GB was healthy. When I went in to have the

stitches removed, a week later, the surgeon, knowing that I was still having

biliary colic, stated that I might have to have an ERCP done. That's when I

searched and found the curezone website. A cholangiogram would have found the

stone in the duct, but the surgeon, during surgery decided not to do one because

the ducts were not inflamed, and the GB must have obviously looked healthy, no

stones, just sludge. Every indication, to him, was that I'd probably passed any

offending stone....he was wrong, obviously. IMO, the liver cleanse most likely

could have saved me from having GB surgery. It's been over two months since I

did my 8th liver cleanse....I was still passing soft green stones...absolutely

no more biliary colic or digestive problems of any kind...which says to me that

it was the pre-surgery stone(s) in the duct that was causing all the pain.

Adrienne

barry91162 <barry91162@...> wrote: Adrienne,

Maybe your gallbladder was ok

and a flush would have worked besides surgery. An ultrasound may have

helped you to determine where the stone was that was blocking your

duct weither it was in the common duct or in the gb and you may have

been able to avoid surgery.

Have you had more colic since the left over gallstone was

removed?

Barry.

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Adrienne,

Exactly the point. It was most likely the pre-surgery gallstone stuck

in an undetectable (by ultrasound) location in the common duct that

was the cause of your colic pain even after gb removal. Since you

haven't had pain any more this leads me to believe that the soft

balls that you are flushing is being created by the method of the

flush itself.

Bile is in many forms. Allowing it to pass in regular stool is the

desired way to remove bile and waste. Try it, you might like it. I

do.

Barry.

Adrienne,

>

> Maybe your gallbladder was ok

> and a flush would have worked besides surgery. An ultrasound may

have

> helped you to determine where the stone was that was blocking your

> duct weither it was in the common duct or in the gb and you may

have

> been able to avoid surgery.

>

> Have you had more colic since the left over gallstone was

> removed?

>

> Barry.

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Barry

Keep working on it. You still only point to certain " facts " and some " hard

facts " statements but I'm awaiting you to point me to a website for

collaboration of this information.

Oh, and the issue really is still whether you really did have your stone

tested.

Proof regarding Dawn's stone will be in your doing a simple flush. Save the

stone as indicated and then let it have air to oxidize. That should help you

regarding proof. I've already done this for myself.

Dale

----- Original Message -----

From: " barry91162 " <barry91162@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 4:03 PM

Subject: Re: melting point - Agne's post says it all

> Dale,

>

> Once again, the issue is not if my hard gallstone has been tested

> when the research shows that thousands of hard gallstones have been

> tested and the results indicate that 90% of hard gallstones contain

> at least 70% or more calcium. To say that Dawns 'stone' melts in air

> because it is 'cholesterol' is not accurate in any way.

>

> Also, before I provide information on my 'tested' removed stone would

> you provide the proof that Dawn asked you for as far as her 'stone'

> melting in air because it is cholesterol.

>

> To answer your question now, NO. The doctor could tell by breaking

> the stone open that it was mostly (over 70%) cholesterol based. They

> have knowledge by experience and study that we don't have so readily

> available to us laymen. I will take a piece into a lab and ask them

> to test for certian and every element they can find and report back

> to the group with my findings.

>

> HARD FACTS:

> Once again, hard gallstones are in 90%-95% of the cases of removed

> gallstones cholesterol (over 70%) based stones. They classify the

> stone to be cholesterol if it is over 70% cholesterol tested after

> removal.

>

> It may have other substances as well (protein for example) but it is

> considered cholesterol instead of calcium.

>

> I've supplied enough information to support the theory that there are

> different types of bile. Soft and hard. Balls or gallstones. Weither

> you want to except what they are or not is up to your own personal

> choice. You can read the hundreds of testimonies on cleanse sites to

> reach your own conclusions. In summary...

>

> Gallstones that remain in the gallbladder and create colic attacks

> are found to be hard when removed by surgery. Stones that are

> cholesterol or calcium based can be hard or crusty hard shelled.

> These 'hard' stones rarely come out with the thousands of

> soft 'stones' during flushing. Can they? Sure they can. Definitely

> yes but it is very rare. Worth the try? Sure, anything is worth the

> try. Results; unfortunately the flush is not as successful in

> removing these types of hard gallbladder stones. While thousands of

> soft bile balls come out during flushing the 'problem' stone that is

> too hard and big to exit remains. Also, they are easily reaccuring if

> continual lifetime flushing is not maintained. Dieting has only a

> slowing effect on the reaccurance of these types of problem stones

> once they begin to form in the gb.

>

> Soft throughout blobs, globs, balls, or 'stones' if you must are not

> hard gallstones but infact only bile that is released from the liver

> in it's regular state. Methods can excellerate the exiting of this

> bile to form what we assimulate as gallstones. But the real gallstone

> remains as well as the pain.

>

> You be the judge. I'm not going to do that for you.

> Good luck in your search for health, truth, happiness, and painless

> eating.

>

> Barry.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > > > > > This is a cholesterol type of stone, so it will melt,

> but

> > > the

> > > > > main

> > > > > > > reason is

> > > > > > > > because it is getting oxygen from the air and that is

> the

> > > main

> > > > > > > reason for it

> > > > > > > > becoming liquid again.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dale

> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > > > > From: " azdmarie " <nortons@v...>

> > > > > > > > <gallstones@y...>

> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 5:15 PM

> > > > > > > > Subject: melting point

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > OK, this hard beautiful green gallstone that I passed

> is

> > > now

> > > > > > > melting.

> > > > > > > > > Why would it be a solid mass inside my 97 degree body

> and

> > > > > then hit

> > > > > > > > > room temp and melt? Makes no sense. Has anyone

> actually

> > > seen

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > stones that are removed from a gb? I have a friend

> who had

> > > > > hers

> > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > and says she still has them. THey must not be the

> melting

> > > > > kind.

> > > > > > > WHich

> > > > > > > > > brings me to the question, if these melt, then are

> they

> > > true

> > > > > > > > > gallstones? DOes it make a difference whether they

> melt or

> > > > > not? I

> > > > > > > am

> > > > > > > > > fast approaching the magical 2000 stones number Hulda

> > > talks

> > > > > > > about. I

> > > > > > > > > realize I am probably being impatient, but I am

> getting

> > > close

> > > > > to 6

> > > > > > > > > months of severe alternative treatment of this thing.

> I am

> > > > > seeing

> > > > > > > > > huge overall health benefits, but still worried about

> my

> > > gb.

> > > > > Dawn

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver

> > > > > > > > > flush stories:

> http:///messages/gallstones-

> > > > > > > testimonials

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Liver Cleanse Recipe:

> > > http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

> > > > > > > > > Liver Flush FAQ: http://curezone.com/forums/forum.asp?

> > > > > ForumID=73

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Images:

> > > > > > > > > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

> > > > > > > > > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, sned blank e-mail to:

> > > > > > > > gallstones-unsubscribe@y... and then reply to

> confirmation

> > > > > > > > message!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To Post message: gallstones@y...

> > > > > > > > > Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe@y...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Web Sites for more information:

> > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.org

> > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.com

> > > > > > > > > http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> > > > > > > > > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

> > > > > > > > > http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm

> > > > > > > > > http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

> > > > > > > > > http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Group page: gallstones

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to digest send blank e-

> mail

> > > to:

> > > > > > > > gallstones-digest@y...

> > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank e-

> mail

> > > to:

> > > > > > > > gallstones-nomail@y...

> > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NORMAL send blank e-

> mail

> > > to:

> > > > > > > > gallstones-normal@y...

> > > > > > > > > You are receiving this email because you elected to

> > > subscribe

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list

> you

> > > > > agree

> > > > > > > to hold

> > > > > > > > yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

> > > > > > > > > Have a nice day !

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dale,

Everyone is convinced of the fact that most gallstones are of the

cholesterol type. You can read the information on any liver or

gallstone site.

As for the facts of the different forms of bile, Gallstones vs. bile

balls, you will have to reach that conclusion with personal study of

testimonies in flush sites and also liver and gallstones sites as

well.

Agnes's posts on gallstone types confirms that hard removed

gallstones are more commonly cholesterol based vs. calcium based.

Another reality is that I don't need to test my stone but I will just

to confirm that it is more cholesterol than calcium. This will be

done in August after my vacation. I'll get back to you and the group

with the lab results. All I know is that hard gallstones removed from

gallbladders do not melt in air. Even when they are over 70%

cholesterol based.

I'm quit certain that if I did a flush again the soft balls would

melt because they are only bile balls without the hardness of a truly

hard gallstone. Therefore there is a major difference between a

problem hardened gallstone and bile that is removed in a flush in the

form of a soft blob of rounded bile. The method itself is the cause

of this form in my opinion.

Dale, I respect your intelligence and opinions. Unfortunetely we will

have to agree to disagree on some things. I feel that I have reached

an advanced understanding of what the flush is about and why there

are differences in forms of bile and also in relation to systemodic

gallstone biliary colic. I have done the flushes with the gallstone

inside my ailing gb and now I also have the crusty gallstone sitting

in front of me. I have seen the interwalls of my gb and can now

understand why I could flush thousands of balls of bile out of my

liver and still have colic attacks when I ate a cracker. The results

of what I have personally experienced is all I need to convince me of

what the digestive system does and what my body does during a flush.

Anyway, we can still be friends if we have different points of

opinion on certain things. :-)

Good luck with your health and happiness. I hope you reach your goals

in these areas.

Barry.

> > > > > > > > > This is a cholesterol type of stone, so it will

melt,

> > but

> > > > the

> > > > > > main

> > > > > > > > reason is

> > > > > > > > > because it is getting oxygen from the air and that

is

> > the

> > > > main

> > > > > > > > reason for it

> > > > > > > > > becoming liquid again.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dale

> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > > > > > From: " azdmarie " <nortons@v...>

> > > > > > > > > <gallstones@y...>

> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 5:15 PM

> > > > > > > > > Subject: melting point

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > OK, this hard beautiful green gallstone that I

passed

> > is

> > > > now

> > > > > > > > melting.

> > > > > > > > > > Why would it be a solid mass inside my 97 degree

body

> > and

> > > > > > then hit

> > > > > > > > > > room temp and melt? Makes no sense. Has anyone

> > actually

> > > > seen

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > stones that are removed from a gb? I have a friend

> > who had

> > > > > > hers

> > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > and says she still has them. THey must not be the

> > melting

> > > > > > kind.

> > > > > > > > WHich

> > > > > > > > > > brings me to the question, if these melt, then are

> > they

> > > > true

> > > > > > > > > > gallstones? DOes it make a difference whether they

> > melt or

> > > > > > not? I

> > > > > > > > am

> > > > > > > > > > fast approaching the magical 2000 stones number

Hulda

> > > > talks

> > > > > > > > about. I

> > > > > > > > > > realize I am probably being impatient, but I am

> > getting

> > > > close

> > > > > > to 6

> > > > > > > > > > months of severe alternative treatment of this

thing.

> > I am

> > > > > > seeing

> > > > > > > > > > huge overall health benefits, but still worried

about

> > my

> > > > gb.

> > > > > > Dawn

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Learn more from our experience, more then 200

liver

> > > > > > > > > > flush stories:

> > http:///messages/gallstones-

> > > > > > > > testimonials

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Liver Cleanse Recipe:

> > > > http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

> > > > > > > > > > Liver Flush FAQ:

http://curezone.com/forums/forum.asp?

> > > > > > ForumID=73

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Images:

> > > > > > > > > > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

> > > > > > > > > >

http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, sned blank e-mail to:

> > > > > > > > > gallstones-unsubscribe@y... and then reply to

> > confirmation

> > > > > > > > > message!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > To Post message: gallstones@y...

> > > > > > > > > > Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe@y...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Web Sites for more information:

> > > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.org

> > > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.com

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Group page:

gallstones

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to digest send blank

e-

> > mail

> > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > gallstones-digest@y...

> > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank

e-

> > mail

> > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > gallstones-nomail@y...

> > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NORMAL send blank

e-

> > mail

> > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > gallstones-normal@y...

> > > > > > > > > > You are receiving this email because you elected

to

> > > > subscribe

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the

list

> > you

> > > > > > agree

> > > > > > > > to hold

> > > > > > > > > yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

> > > > > > > > > > Have a nice day !

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Very simply put Barry, I still have my gallbladder and I attribute that to

the flushes and to the information I've gleamed from Dr. Cabot's book

and other locations on the Internet. But, not only that, it took me a lot of

resolve to make sure of what I did and didn't eat for quite some time. Today

I eat almost everything I want with impunity, or at least limited notice

that I should be careful about what I do eat.

I'm just amazed that there is such a new thing as bile balls to go with

gallstones. I guess I should be researching the web for more information on

bile balls but for some reason I can't seem to find any. If you would please

post for us some websites that will give us greater insight into the

difference between the two types it would be greatly appreciated. I'm really

having a difficult time getting

my mental picture straight.

I'm also quite amazed at this new word you've created too. I never heard of

systemodic until

tonight so I thought I'd find its relationship to systematic but couldn't

find that either. If your dictionary explains it I may be better enabled to

understand the relationships of gallstones and bile stones much better. So,

if you happen to have an explanation for that particular meaning please post

it.

I find the two words; system and odic in my dictionary and try to put it

together but odic relates to an ode which is a poem like lyric and then

system is of order interrelating to a complex whole. Are you saying the

relationship of the bile to the gallbladder is melodic too?

And didn't we just go over the difference between blobs, globs and other

things?

Dale

----- Original Message -----

From: " barry91162 " <barry91162@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:09 PM

Subject: Re: melting point - Agne's post says it all

> Dale,

>

> Everyone is convinced of the fact that most gallstones are of the

> cholesterol type. You can read the information on any liver or

> gallstone site.

>

> As for the facts of the different forms of bile, Gallstones vs. bile

> balls, you will have to reach that conclusion with personal study of

> testimonies in flush sites and also liver and gallstones sites as

> well.

>

> Agnes's posts on gallstone types confirms that hard removed

> gallstones are more commonly cholesterol based vs. calcium based.

>

> Another reality is that I don't need to test my stone but I will just

> to confirm that it is more cholesterol than calcium. This will be

> done in August after my vacation. I'll get back to you and the group

> with the lab results. All I know is that hard gallstones removed from

> gallbladders do not melt in air. Even when they are over 70%

> cholesterol based.

>

> I'm quit certain that if I did a flush again the soft balls would

> melt because they are only bile balls without the hardness of a truly

> hard gallstone. Therefore there is a major difference between a

> problem hardened gallstone and bile that is removed in a flush in the

> form of a soft blob of rounded bile. The method itself is the cause

> of this form in my opinion.

>

> Dale, I respect your intelligence and opinions. Unfortunetely we will

> have to agree to disagree on some things. I feel that I have reached

> an advanced understanding of what the flush is about and why there

> are differences in forms of bile and also in relation to systemodic

> gallstone biliary colic. I have done the flushes with the gallstone

> inside my ailing gb and now I also have the crusty gallstone sitting

> in front of me. I have seen the interwalls of my gb and can now

> understand why I could flush thousands of balls of bile out of my

> liver and still have colic attacks when I ate a cracker. The results

> of what I have personally experienced is all I need to convince me of

> what the digestive system does and what my body does during a flush.

> Anyway, we can still be friends if we have different points of

> opinion on certain things. :-)

>

> Good luck with your health and happiness. I hope you reach your goals

> in these areas.

>

> Barry.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > > > > > > > This is a cholesterol type of stone, so it will

> melt,

> > > but

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > main

> > > > > > > > > reason is

> > > > > > > > > > because it is getting oxygen from the air and that

> is

> > > the

> > > > > main

> > > > > > > > > reason for it

> > > > > > > > > > becoming liquid again.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dale

> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > > > > > > From: " azdmarie " <nortons@v...>

> > > > > > > > > > <gallstones@y...>

> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 5:15 PM

> > > > > > > > > > Subject: melting point

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > OK, this hard beautiful green gallstone that I

> passed

> > > is

> > > > > now

> > > > > > > > > melting.

> > > > > > > > > > > Why would it be a solid mass inside my 97 degree

> body

> > > and

> > > > > > > then hit

> > > > > > > > > > > room temp and melt? Makes no sense. Has anyone

> > > actually

> > > > > seen

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > stones that are removed from a gb? I have a friend

> > > who had

> > > > > > > hers

> > > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > > and says she still has them. THey must not be the

> > > melting

> > > > > > > kind.

> > > > > > > > > WHich

> > > > > > > > > > > brings me to the question, if these melt, then are

> > > they

> > > > > true

> > > > > > > > > > > gallstones? DOes it make a difference whether they

> > > melt or

> > > > > > > not? I

> > > > > > > > > am

> > > > > > > > > > > fast approaching the magical 2000 stones number

> Hulda

> > > > > talks

> > > > > > > > > about. I

> > > > > > > > > > > realize I am probably being impatient, but I am

> > > getting

> > > > > close

> > > > > > > to 6

> > > > > > > > > > > months of severe alternative treatment of this

> thing.

> > > I am

> > > > > > > seeing

> > > > > > > > > > > huge overall health benefits, but still worried

> about

> > > my

> > > > > gb.

> > > > > > > Dawn

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Learn more from our experience, more then 200

> liver

> > > > > > > > > > > flush stories:

> > > http:///messages/gallstones-

> > > > > > > > > testimonials

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Liver Cleanse Recipe:

> > > > > http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

> > > > > > > > > > > Liver Flush FAQ:

> http://curezone.com/forums/forum.asp?

> > > > > > > ForumID=73

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Images:

> > > > > > > > > > > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

> > > > > > > > > > >

> http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, sned blank e-mail to:

> > > > > > > > > > gallstones-unsubscribe@y... and then reply to

> > > confirmation

> > > > > > > > > > message!

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > To Post message: gallstones@y...

> > > > > > > > > > > Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe@y...

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Web Sites for more information:

> > > > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.org

> > > > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.com

> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm

> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Group page:

> gallstones

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to digest send blank

> e-

> > > mail

> > > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > > gallstones-digest@y...

> > > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank

> e-

> > > mail

> > > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > > gallstones-nomail@y...

> > > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NORMAL send blank

> e-

> > > mail

> > > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > > gallstones-normal@y...

> > > > > > > > > > > You are receiving this email because you elected

> to

> > > > > subscribe

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the

> list

> > > you

> > > > > > > agree

> > > > > > > > > to hold

> > > > > > > > > > yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

> > > > > > > > > > > Have a nice day !

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Now Barry, I have to jump in here. This was true for you and I am

sure it is true for a lot of people, but how do we know that the

softer stones can't create the same symptoms in other people? There

sure seem to be plenty of people (I know 2 personally, to my

disappointment) who do one or two cleanses and then don't have

anymore problems. I think your gallbladder can be sluggish with soft

stones and give discomfort or colic just as the hard stones can. And

I still think it would be interesting for you to do a post cleanse

even thought you don't think it is necessary because you don't have

pain anymore you lucky dog. But hey, it's your body and your choice

of course. Dawn

>

> Gallstones that remain in the gallbladder and create colic attacks

> are found to be hard when removed by surgery. Stones that are

> cholesterol or calcium based can be hard or crusty hard shelled.

> These 'hard' stones rarely come out with the thousands of

> soft 'stones' during flushing. Can they? Sure they can. Definitely

> yes but it is very rare. Worth the try? Sure, anything is worth the

> try. Results; unfortunately the flush is not as successful in

> removing these types of hard gallbladder stones. While thousands of

> soft bile balls come out during flushing the 'problem' stone that

is

> too hard and big to exit remains. Also, they are easily reaccuring

if

> continual lifetime flushing is not maintained. Dieting has only a

> slowing effect on the reaccurance of these types of problem stones

> once they begin to form in the gb.

>

> Soft throughout blobs, globs, balls, or 'stones' if you must are

not

> hard gallstones but infact only bile that is released from the

liver

> in it's regular state. Methods can excellerate the exiting of this

> bile to form what we assimulate as gallstones. But the real

gallstone

> remains as well as the pain.

>

> You be the judge. I'm not going to do that for you.

> Good luck in your search for health, truth, happiness, and painless

> eating.

>

> Barry.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > > > > > This is a cholesterol type of stone, so it will melt,

> but

> > > the

> > > > > main

> > > > > > > reason is

> > > > > > > > because it is getting oxygen from the air and that is

> the

> > > main

> > > > > > > reason for it

> > > > > > > > becoming liquid again.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dale

> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > > > > From: " azdmarie " <nortons@v...>

> > > > > > > > <gallstones@y...>

> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 5:15 PM

> > > > > > > > Subject: melting point

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > OK, this hard beautiful green gallstone that I

passed

> is

> > > now

> > > > > > > melting.

> > > > > > > > > Why would it be a solid mass inside my 97 degree

body

> and

> > > > > then hit

> > > > > > > > > room temp and melt? Makes no sense. Has anyone

> actually

> > > seen

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > stones that are removed from a gb? I have a friend

> who had

> > > > > hers

> > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > and says she still has them. THey must not be the

> melting

> > > > > kind.

> > > > > > > WHich

> > > > > > > > > brings me to the question, if these melt, then are

> they

> > > true

> > > > > > > > > gallstones? DOes it make a difference whether they

> melt or

> > > > > not? I

> > > > > > > am

> > > > > > > > > fast approaching the magical 2000 stones number

Hulda

> > > talks

> > > > > > > about. I

> > > > > > > > > realize I am probably being impatient, but I am

> getting

> > > close

> > > > > to 6

> > > > > > > > > months of severe alternative treatment of this

thing.

> I am

> > > > > seeing

> > > > > > > > > huge overall health benefits, but still worried

about

> my

> > > gb.

> > > > > Dawn

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver

> > > > > > > > > flush stories:

> http:///messages/gallstones-

> > > > > > > testimonials

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Liver Cleanse Recipe:

> > > http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

> > > > > > > > > Liver Flush FAQ:

http://curezone.com/forums/forum.asp?

> > > > > ForumID=73

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Images:

> > > > > > > > > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

> > > > > > > > >

http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, sned blank e-mail to:

> > > > > > > > gallstones-unsubscribe@y... and then reply to

> confirmation

> > > > > > > > message!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To Post message: gallstones@y...

> > > > > > > > > Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe@y...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Web Sites for more information:

> > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.org

> > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.com

> > > > > > > > > http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> > > > > > > > > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

> > > > > > > > > http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm

> > > > > > > > > http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

> > > > > > > > > http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Group page: gallstones

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to digest send blank e-

> mail

> > > to:

> > > > > > > > gallstones-digest@y...

> > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank e-

> mail

> > > to:

> > > > > > > > gallstones-nomail@y...

> > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NORMAL send blank e-

> mail

> > > to:

> > > > > > > > gallstones-normal@y...

> > > > > > > > > You are receiving this email because you elected to

> > > subscribe

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the

list

> you

> > > > > agree

> > > > > > > to hold

> > > > > > > > yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

> > > > > > > > > Have a nice day !

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dale,

I'm sorry you have to eat 'almost' anything with impunity or limited

notice to be have to be 'careful' of eating instead of having the God

given pleasure to eat whatever, whenever without worry if you so

choose. The freedom is liberating in more ways than one. But on the

same hand you are lucky to be able to keep your gallbladder even if

problems still arise for you. I had to remove mine to be healthy and

in the same way it has given me the freedom to not worry about

eating. I do watch my diet but it isn't a colic producing issue

anymore. The freedom to eat is great even without the gb believe it

or not.

Bile balls are not new at all. They may be new to you because you

have chosen to believe or understand only one way that you want to

find true. We all do that. Don't feel amazed or confused by the

terms. In fact you may never hear the term 'bile balls' in a flush

group that wants to believe everything eliminated in a flush is

a 'gallstone'. The world was discovered to be round too.

It's simple Dale, just think for a minute and you will 'get it'. Let

me say it in the terms you have accustomed yourself to believe or

understand ok? There are two forms of 'stones'. Soft stones and hard

stones. Do you get it now?

I define these two forms of bile more difinitively than the flusher

who wants to believe only in one option. I take it further in

advanced understanding of the reasons of the two types of bile, the

charactoristics, and even the forming of each. Simple thinking should

lead you to the same exploration if you have an open mind to see all

options of posibilities.

Here are some differences in charactoristics of the two types.

Gallstones are hard. Bile balls are soft throughout.

Gallstones cause colic. Bile balls usually don't.

Gallstones don't usually come out in a flush if they are bigger than

the cystic duct. Bile balls come out by the thousands even if they

are over 2 cm in size.

Bile balls are created by the method of the flush itself using the

bile within the liver and gb.

Bile balls come out even if you don't have gallstones in your system.

Bile balls are infact regular bile. Gallstones are a problem bile

form.

Gallstones are detected by ultrasound. Bile balls are not.

After flushing thousands of bile balls in 3 months, every two weeks.

Hundreds bi-weekly up to one week before surgery, there were no bile

balls found in my system or gb during surgery. Did my body suddenly

stop making these 'stones' all of the sudden or did I stop making my

bile form into soft balls by not flushing to create them?

Some of these you may or may not yet believe and that doesn't matter

now. Just know or agree that there are several forms of bile. Agreed?

And they are not all 'stones'. That last sentence will require more

indepth study on your part.

In the same way that I don't call bile within the liver 'gallstones'

I also do not call soft round forms of bile 'gallstones' neither.

They are two different animals. If you can understand that action of

the body you will see clearly to understand the function or

charactoristics of each form of bile. Good luck.

To get your mental picture straight you can find this information in

all of the flush sites testimonies. You have to read between the

lines to study the personal results of the flushers. Most do not

understand why they flush thousands of soft balls out but still have

the pain after eating. Easy for me to reach answers with indepth

study and understanding.

'Systemodic' or systematic just means that the gallstone has reached

the level of producing colic symptoms. Maybe I spelled it wrong but I

was sure that you were smart enough to understand the logical meaning

of the word. Sorry I wasn't clear enough for your intellect there.

Living for several years in Mexico now I sometimes misspell words

while learing Spanish but I am thinking of writing a poem about my

stone some day. :-)

We did go over blobs, globs, and other things but not how they differ

from the truly hard gallstones in relation to flushing success and

results. Pain is the motivator for study.

Dale, I hope this opens your eyes to why you still have pain.

Good luck and be healthy, happy, and painfree.

Barry.

> > > > > > > > > > > This is a cholesterol type of stone, so it will

> > melt,

> > > > but

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > main

> > > > > > > > > > reason is

> > > > > > > > > > > because it is getting oxygen from the air and

that

> > is

> > > > the

> > > > > > main

> > > > > > > > > > reason for it

> > > > > > > > > > > becoming liquid again.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dale

> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > > > > > > > From: " azdmarie " <nortons@v...>

> > > > > > > > > > > <gallstones@y...>

> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 5:15 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: melting point

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > OK, this hard beautiful green gallstone that I

> > passed

> > > > is

> > > > > > now

> > > > > > > > > > melting.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Why would it be a solid mass inside my 97

degree

> > body

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > then hit

> > > > > > > > > > > > room temp and melt? Makes no sense. Has anyone

> > > > actually

> > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > stones that are removed from a gb? I have a

friend

> > > > who had

> > > > > > > > hers

> > > > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > > > and says she still has them. THey must not be

the

> > > > melting

> > > > > > > > kind.

> > > > > > > > > > WHich

> > > > > > > > > > > > brings me to the question, if these melt,

then are

> > > > they

> > > > > > true

> > > > > > > > > > > > gallstones? DOes it make a difference whether

they

> > > > melt or

> > > > > > > > not? I

> > > > > > > > > > am

> > > > > > > > > > > > fast approaching the magical 2000 stones

number

> > Hulda

> > > > > > talks

> > > > > > > > > > about. I

> > > > > > > > > > > > realize I am probably being impatient, but I

am

> > > > getting

> > > > > > close

> > > > > > > > to 6

> > > > > > > > > > > > months of severe alternative treatment of this

> > thing.

> > > > I am

> > > > > > > > seeing

> > > > > > > > > > > > huge overall health benefits, but still

worried

> > about

> > > > my

> > > > > > gb.

> > > > > > > > Dawn

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Learn more from our experience, more then 200

> > liver

> > > > > > > > > > > > flush stories:

> > > > http:///messages/gallstones-

> > > > > > > > > > testimonials

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Liver Cleanse Recipe:

> > > > > > http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

> > > > > > > > > > > > Liver Flush FAQ:

> > http://curezone.com/forums/forum.asp?

> > > > > > > > ForumID=73

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Images:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, sned blank e-mail to:

> > > > > > > > > > > gallstones-unsubscribe@y... and then reply to

> > > > confirmation

> > > > > > > > > > > message!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > To Post message: gallstones@y...

> > > > > > > > > > > > Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe@y...

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Web Sites for more information:

> > > > > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.org

> > > > > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.com

> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm

> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Group page:

> > gallstones

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to digest send

blank

> > e-

> > > > mail

> > > > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > > > gallstones-digest@y...

> > > > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send

blank

> > e-

> > > > mail

> > > > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > > > gallstones-nomail@y...

> > > > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NORMAL send

blank

> > e-

> > > > mail

> > > > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > > > gallstones-normal@y...

> > > > > > > > > > > > You are receiving this email because you

elected

> > to

> > > > > > subscribe

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining

the

> > list

> > > > you

> > > > > > > > agree

> > > > > > > > > > to hold

> > > > > > > > > > > yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

> > > > > > > > > > > > Have a nice day !

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dawn,

It is possible that soft balls of bile cause colic but in most cases

it is the hard gallstones that will cause pain. Everyone (even people

without gallstones or pain) can flush out soft bile balls because

they are formed by the method of flushing itself. Bile is in many

forms. My wife got out hundreds of bile balls in a flush and has

never had gallbladder or gallstone colic. Did she need to make her

bile to exit that way? I believe not. In the same way I believe that

I can still get out soft bile balls without anymore gallstones but

what is the point? I can eat anything at anytime without the problem

of gallstones. I'll let my bile exit on it's own God given design

now. If I have pain than maybe I will flush. I don't drink ES and oil

unless I want to get rid of the biliary pain of some sort. No pain

and I'm a happy camper.

Millions of people live on this earth without biliary pain and do not

have to flush in order to stay healthy or clear of pain. Sorry. I

will only flush if I need to now. I don't even care to 'test' flush

because I know I can make those forms of soft bile balls by flushing

just like my wife has and she never has had gallstones. Go figure.

Good luck Dawn.

Barry.

> > > > > > > > > This is a cholesterol type of stone, so it will

melt,

> > but

> > > > the

> > > > > > main

> > > > > > > > reason is

> > > > > > > > > because it is getting oxygen from the air and that

is

> > the

> > > > main

> > > > > > > > reason for it

> > > > > > > > > becoming liquid again.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dale

> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > > > > > From: " azdmarie " <nortons@v...>

> > > > > > > > > <gallstones@y...>

> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 5:15 PM

> > > > > > > > > Subject: melting point

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > OK, this hard beautiful green gallstone that I

> passed

> > is

> > > > now

> > > > > > > > melting.

> > > > > > > > > > Why would it be a solid mass inside my 97 degree

> body

> > and

> > > > > > then hit

> > > > > > > > > > room temp and melt? Makes no sense. Has anyone

> > actually

> > > > seen

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > stones that are removed from a gb? I have a

friend

> > who had

> > > > > > hers

> > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > and says she still has them. THey must not be the

> > melting

> > > > > > kind.

> > > > > > > > WHich

> > > > > > > > > > brings me to the question, if these melt, then

are

> > they

> > > > true

> > > > > > > > > > gallstones? DOes it make a difference whether

they

> > melt or

> > > > > > not? I

> > > > > > > > am

> > > > > > > > > > fast approaching the magical 2000 stones number

> Hulda

> > > > talks

> > > > > > > > about. I

> > > > > > > > > > realize I am probably being impatient, but I am

> > getting

> > > > close

> > > > > > to 6

> > > > > > > > > > months of severe alternative treatment of this

> thing.

> > I am

> > > > > > seeing

> > > > > > > > > > huge overall health benefits, but still worried

> about

> > my

> > > > gb.

> > > > > > Dawn

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Learn more from our experience, more then 200

liver

> > > > > > > > > > flush stories:

> > http:///messages/gallstones-

> > > > > > > > testimonials

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Liver Cleanse Recipe:

> > > > http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

> > > > > > > > > > Liver Flush FAQ:

> http://curezone.com/forums/forum.asp?

> > > > > > ForumID=73

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Images:

> > > > > > > > > > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

> > > > > > > > > >

> http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, sned blank e-mail to:

> > > > > > > > > gallstones-unsubscribe@y... and then reply to

> > confirmation

> > > > > > > > > message!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > To Post message: gallstones@y...

> > > > > > > > > > Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe@y...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Web Sites for more information:

> > > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.org

> > > > > > > > > > http://DrHulda.com

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Group page:

gallstones

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to digest send blank

e-

> > mail

> > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > gallstones-digest@y...

> > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank

e-

> > mail

> > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > gallstones-nomail@y...

> > > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to NORMAL send blank

e-

> > mail

> > > > to:

> > > > > > > > > gallstones-normal@y...

> > > > > > > > > > You are receiving this email because you elected

to

> > > > subscribe

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the

> list

> > you

> > > > > > agree

> > > > > > > > to hold

> > > > > > > > > yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

> > > > > > > > > > Have a nice day !

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Barry wrote:

>Dale, I respect your intelligence and opinions. Unfortunetely we

>will

>have to agree to disagree on some things. I feel that I have reached

>

>an advanced understanding of what the flush is about and why there

>are differences in forms of bile and also in relation to systemodic

>gallstone biliary colic. I have done the flushes with the gallstone

>inside my ailing gb and now I also have the crusty gallstone sitting

>

>in front of me. I have seen the interwalls of my gb and can now

>understand why I could flush thousands of balls of bile out of my

>liver and still have colic attacks when I ate a cracker. The results

>

>of what I have personally experienced is all I need to convince me

>of

>what the digestive system does and what my body does during a flush.

>

>Anyway, we can still be friends if we have different points of

>opinion on certain things. :-)

>

>Good luck with your health and happiness. I hope you reach your

>goals

>in these areas.

Without taking sides on this question, I just wish to state what

seems to me to be an obvious point: this is not a matter of

" different points of opinion on certain things. " Rather, we are

dealing with facts. Facts such as what a particular stone, or the

vast majority of stones, are made of. Facts like where the stones

are actually formed. Barry's stone is either 90 percent cholesterol,

5 percent cholesterol, or something in between. Neither my opinion,

nor Dale's opinion nor Barry's opinion has any bearing on the true

composition of the stone.

Yes, anyone can have his or her own opinion, but when facts are

involved, my opinion can either be proved or disproved. If my

" opinion " is that it snowed yesterday in Florida, you have very right

to disregard that opinion.

Does anyone disagree with this mini-analysis?

---------------------------

IRA L. JACOBSON

---------------------------

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