Re: Re: antiamalgamists

May 22, 2002

>>Perhaps you would like to enlighten

me and the others here as to just how your information regarding dental

amalgam use is going to help me and others to gain better health.<<

I think that having information, insight, and sources on BOTH sides of the

issue can only help individuals come to their own conclusions about how

worried they should be about fillings, vaccinations, etc. I have found most

of what everyone has had to say to be interesting. I have found Ira's

questions to be interesting (sometimes challenging) as well as many of the

responses. I feel better educated about the matter because of all of the

participation. It gives me much to think about.

Debra

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May 22, 2002

Jay,

Having been a dental assistant for over 9 years, I'm here to tell you

that gold crowns/caps(same thing) can get decay under them too. And gold or

any metal in the mouth has its problems too. A gold crown is not pure gold,

pure gold is too soft so they have to mix the gold with other harder metals.

Crowns are difficult to keep clean, especially if you drink sugary drinks,

the sugar flows under the crown where it is seated on the tooth. Also in time

the gum tissue around the crown will shrink away from the crown, and you can

also get periodontal pockets around in the tissue around the crown. Also,

many times the root under the crowned tooth can abcess, so it is a constant

target for bacteria. You would be better off extrcting the tooth if your are

concerned about your health. And by the way, we are way off target.

W.

`

May 22, 2002

" ...The bottom line: Don't get amalgams removed by untrained dentists -

dentists not trained in the proper removal by Hal Huggins methods. "

I find that hard to swallow, literally. When only one person has the answers

it sends up a huge stop sign to me. Behind each and every person who has THE

answer for ANYTHING to the exclusion of others there lurks an ego larger than

Everest - no matter what kind of a " kind " or " shy " facade they may exhibit.

Scientists are still trying to get an accurate constant for the measurement

of gravity, and still don't have one. Each test they run produces a

different result. (From a local newspaper article within the last year about

experiments at the University of Washington.)

Jay

Eat garlic - it will cure more ills than all the potions of special interest

and MLM groups combined. But it will never catch on because it can't be

patented and it is much too cheap. And if you really want to get healthy,

chase it down with lemon juice and 100+ HU cayenne - again, much too simple

for the complex people in this life.

May 22, 2002

dear ira:

like i said, you can hash this out with dr cutler if you are inclined. i have

already read everything he has published. my sense is that you will be in way

over your head. this will be a great learning experience for you. dr cutler is

aware that amalgam fillings are an alloy. i've never encountered a single person

who wasn't aware of this. hence the word amalgam.

also, you contradicted yourself. in a previous post you said that mercury from a

thermometer wasn't dangerous. now you are saying differently. and now are

ascribing levels of danger to these various substances. how might one determine

these different levels of danger. is this the ira jacobson mercury gradient

scale? how much is dangerous for an autistic child, a cancer patient, a healthy

person. please enlighten me.

<<As such, the mercury in the amalgam is very stable >>

maybe if you actually read my last post, you wouldn't be mindlessly repeating

ada rhetoric. amalgam outside of the mouth MIGHT be stable. but what happens

when it is constantly exposed to acid and bacteria in the mouth?

<<As such, the mercury in the amalgam is very stable and not nearly so

dangerous as the mercury in a thermometer>>

if you were at ground zero of a nuclear explosion, that would be far more

dangerous than bathing every day in radioactively contaminated water.

<<On a personal note, it's becoming rather tiresome to rehash this point

over and over again>>

i agree. why don't you take some of your own advice, and actually listen to what

i am saying. then read one of the 10 or so articles i cited upon your request.

then have a discussion with dr cutler on the autism treatment list. then talk to

some of the many parents who are reversing their children's autism by following

his protocol. saying that dr cutler is unaware that mercury fillings are an

alloy is like a 4 year old pointing out to his parents that he can go potty all

by himself. seems like your mind is already made up on the issue. that's fine by

me. ignorance is bliss. continue this debate with someone else

May 22, 2002

>From: JayTownsend@...

he pointed out that when they are

>worked on, or as in my case replaced, that there is an " explosion " of

>mercury

>that obviously transfers to the body, even with a rubber dam. The dust

>from

>drilling and more than likely the vaporization of mercury from the drilling

>heat cannot be kept away from inhalation or mixing with saliva. I wanted

>to

>make that point. If you do have amalgams removed, even the process of

>removal can give you a significant shot of mercury into your body -

>probably

>far beyond the level that " leeched " out since installation.

Good point, Jay. You've discovered what Dr. Hal Huggins teaches when

removing the Amalgams. He has a vacuum to remove the vapor and dust from

the mouth. A suction is placed under the dam in addition to suctioning out

above the dam. There are many other proper methods to minimize increased

mercury ingestion during removal. The bottom line: Don't get amalgams

removed by untrained dentists - dentists not trained in the proper removal

by Hal Huggins methods.

Vince

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May 22, 2002

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Arthur Luckower " <aluckower@...> wrote, quoting one andy cutler:

>The usual terminology:

>

>liquid mercury and its vapor - the cool silvery looking stuff - is

>metallic

>mercury.

>

>The form of mercury in your amalgam fillings is metallic mercury.

That is rather inaccurate, I'm afraid. The mercury amalgam that you

refer to contains an alloy of mercury, not elemental mercury.

As such, the mercury in the amalgam is very stable and not nearly so

dangerous as the mercury in a thermometer, for example

---------------------------

IRA L. JACOBSON

---------------------------

mailto:laser@...

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Ira;

Perhaps you didn't read the information to which I've been pointing

regarding mercury being used in making the alloy, or should we say, silver

amalgam, dental product used to fill teeth. Let's keep in mind that the word

alloy and amalgam are synonymous with each other and not send it off in to

some new intellectual meaning. Mercury doesn't become an alloy without

something being added to it to degrade its properties. Mercury is a

poisonous liquid base metal. It has to be mixed with something to make it

something else. At the time of the change it is an amalgam, or alloy, that

should be renamed to signifiy its difference from the base metal of which it

was before the change i.e. the case in point would be brass of which is a

mix between copper and zinc, it may also have some other metals added to it

too to make various colors or strengths, in the case at hand it is called

silver amalgam.

Now as to the safety of the level of a silver amalgam mix using mercury that

is just what I was pointing to when sending the Find Articles publication of

the Swedish report done in 1998. Anita Engqvist of the Department of

Analytical Chemistry certainly did show that there was mercury from various

degrees of mercury composition in the feces of the test subjects, in fact,

the very first sentence noted the composition of mercury being the base

mercury and not some other alloy containing mercury. They also noted the

reasons for the levels of mercury showing up in the feces as being from

either the teeth containing silver amalgam or food supplied.

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0907/n3_v53/20831239/p1/article.jhtml

I really don't understand why you even started posting any information on

this group to push some off the track information. This group is for the

purpose of concern regarding the liver and gallbladder and if that is the

reason for such a post then you would want to prove that the mercury doesn't

come from the amalgam in the dental work and settle in the body. However I

know from my studies on the subject that mercury in the gaseous state can,

and does penetrate the brain blood barrier and cause various problems with

autism being just one of those suspect problems. If anything is to be posted

it should have been regarding how to detox the mercury from the body and

therefore the liver too. Note that even doctors are working at this in the

ens.lycos.com/ens article.

http://www.autism.com/ari/mercurydetox.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/09/990909080318.htm

http://ens.lycos.com/ens/sep99/1999L-09-08-07.html

This is a simple history of silver amalgam and the inventor of it.

http://www.trufax.org/mercury/merc1.html

Let's stay on point here regarding the use of silver amalgams. By doing so

we can then get to the problems it may be causing the intestinal track as

well as the liver and gallbladder, besides what is already known about its

effect on the brain. I guess the key thing to do is to convince you that

there is a problem with the use of mercury for dental work and that there is

an adverse effect of greater potential in those who's mouths have been

filled with these alloys and have some other potential problem with certain

metal allergies.

http://www.skyboom.com/newwest/index30.html

http://www.algonet.se/~leif/oldabr96.html

http://www.freedommedcenter.com/mercury.htm

http://www.melisa.org/articles/index.html

This may be too much to research but at least check some of the information.

http://dmoz.org/Health/Alternative/Non-Toxic_Living/Mercury_and_Amalgams/

This is pretty good regarding toxic metals

http://www.consumerhealthbooks.com/ctlg/1420.html

**********Now if any of the links I've put here don't get you to a site just

take note of the little part that was cut off and paste it to the address

window of the site to which the html link had gotten you, hit go or

highlight whole link and hit Enter, that should then make the link

complete**********

Please note the definitions here;

al·loy (al?oi´, ?-loi?) noun

1. A homogeneous mixture or solid solution of two or more metals, the atoms

of one replacing or occupying interstitial positions between the atoms of

the other: Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc.

2. A mixture; an amalgam: " Television news has . . . always been an alloy of

journalism and show business " (Bill Moyers).

3. The relative degree of mixture with a base metal; fineness.

4. Something added that lowers value or purity

a·mal·gam (?-mal?g?m) noun

1. Any of various alloys of mercury with other metals, as with tin or

silver.

2. A combination of diverse elements; a mixture: an amalgam of strength,

reputation, and commitment to ethical principles. See synonyms at mixture.

Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language,

version licensed from Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products N.V., further

reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright

Dale

May 22, 2002

I make a lemon drink each morning - it is now just part of my routine.

1 whole lemon

1 cup water

1 tbsp olive oil

Supposed to cleanse the blood and liver.

Blend and drink - I divide it into 3 portions.

Cayenne - warms me right up and temporarily stops chronic inflammation in my

nose but it comes back after 1/2 hour or so.

My only concern about the garlic - if it has antibiotic properties, will it kill

the beneficial bacteria if eaten in large quantities ?

Also investigating coconut oil.

>

> From: JayTownsend@...

> Date: 2002/05/22 Wed PM 12:44:54 EST

> gallstones

> Subject: Re: Re: antiamalgamists

>

> " ...The bottom line: Don't get amalgams removed by untrained dentists -

> dentists not trained in the proper removal by Hal Huggins methods. "

>

> I find that hard to swallow, literally. When only one person has the answers

> it sends up a huge stop sign to me. Behind each and every person who has THE

> answer for ANYTHING to the exclusion of others there lurks an ego larger than

> Everest - no matter what kind of a " kind " or " shy " facade they may exhibit.

>

> Scientists are still trying to get an accurate constant for the measurement

> of gravity, and still don't have one. Each test they run produces a

> different result. (From a local newspaper article within the last year about

> experiments at the University of Washington.)

>

> Jay

>

> Eat garlic - it will cure more ills than all the potions of special interest

> and MLM groups combined. But it will never catch on because it can't be

> patented and it is much too cheap. And if you really want to get healthy,

> chase it down with lemon juice and 100+ HU cayenne - again, much too simple

> for the complex people in this life.

>

May 23, 2002

>>it's becoming rather tiresome to rehash this point

over and over again.<<

No offense meant here, Ira, but obviously the rehashing will continue until

someone does not respond to the last comment on the subject. This could

just as easily be you, as anyone else. :}

Debra

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May 23, 2002

Ira;

If the instrument in question has a problem with its calibration would it

really matter if the calibration was off, if in fact a mercury gas is

showing up at all. Wouldn't the fact that a trace gas showed mean something?

Does it matter whether someone is stuck in mud or sand or the simple fact

that they are stuck? Shoot is it necessary for you to have the exact amounts

of the gas and know that the instrument was calibrated to a specified

special superfragileistic calibration by a registered special tooth gas

calibration expert for you to come to believe the simple fact that a gas

emanated from the tooth filling? I would love to know what it takes to get

you to admit there are gases released by the silver amalgams that people

have put in their mouths by ADA doctors. Wasn't it enough that the site to

which I've addressed showed it in the feces i.e. dung, poop, or whatever an

engineer may consider it.

If the horse ain't really dead then lets keep beating it,,,OK?

Dale

----- Original Message -----

From: " Ira L. son " <laser@...>

Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 1:39 PM

Subject: Re: antiamalgamists

> Vince wrote:

> >If this gets a little more

> >tedious, you'll just drop the subject and go on to something else? How

> >can

> >I help? Just for your information, I'm not going to address it.

> >

> >Vince

> >>>>>>>>>>>==End of Quoted Material==<<<<<<<<<<<

>

> You leave me no choice but to conclude that the instrument that was used

> in your mouth is uncalibrated and therefore has no relevance to the

> science of metrology.

>

> As I had guessed and you have made clear by refusing to answer the

> questions I asked five (5) times.

>

> ---------------------------

> IRA L. JACOBSON

> ---------------------------

> mailto:laser@...

>

May 23, 2002

>>You leave me no choice but to conclude that the instrument that was used

in your mouth is uncalibrated and therefore has no relevance to the

science of metrology.<<

(Please note: The tone of this post is not meant to sound irritated, but

rather, concerned. Lack of voice or body language could make this easily

misconstrued.)

Um, Ira....... the tone here is beginning to sound more arrogant than

intelligent. If you feel vindicated, or " right " by his lack of response to

your question, maybe that makes you feel good. Maybe it makes you feel

superior somehow, at least that is how it reads. Well, that's your

business, but as far as relevance is concerned, as interesting as parts of

this thread have been, the folks who have been saying that it is not

especially relevant to the purpose of the list have a point. I agree that

people (though few) have said things to you that were not especially kind,

but you seem to just not be happy until you have somehow insulted someone.

You just do it a bit more covertly.

Ira, I have really enjoyed many of your posts. I have come to your defense.

I am beginning to think though, that you truly enjoy the actual sparring.

It's like some sort of duel, that you need to win. There is nothing wrong

with enjoying that type of debate, and wanting to win, only it should be

done in an arena where all parties agree that this is the purpose of the

discussion. It is almost like a game, a competition.

No one has to prove anything to you here. You do not have to prove how

" right " you are on a point. If you bring up an interesting point or

question, everyone reads it, and can decide for themselves if it was

answered or not, you don't need to keep hammering on it. All that does is

take the focus off of the topic, and focus it on the personalities. Maybe

that is what you want??

I hope you continue to provide interesting information and challenging

questions to the list, but I also hope you can lighten up a little. This

isn't a place for " winning. " On the other hand, if I were ever on a debate

team, I would love to have you aboard.

Debra :}

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May 23, 2002

Debra;

I can appreciate your desire to not offend anyone, including Ira. I don't

normally tend to find myself annoyed with people and will let a lot go by

before saying or doing anything about whatever issue is at the forefront.

However, I think this post from you certainly is a breath of fresh air. It

just took a bit longer in your case to see what has been before a lot of us

here for quite some time. But, I think you pretty much came to light with

this statement;

<<<<<<,No one has to prove anything to you here. You do not have to prove

how

" right " you are on a point. If you bring up an interesting point or

question, everyone reads it, and can decide for themselves if it was

answered or not, you don't need to keep hammering on it. All that does is

take the focus off of the topic, and focus it on the personalities. Maybe

that is what you want??>>>>>>>>>

I do believe this person does just that. He is truly a person who looks to

find some unarmed person with which to have a battle of wits. But, I'm

really at a loss to figure what quality and quantifiable information he's

brought to the group. Since he first brought up this thing about amalgams

being stable and safe I have yet to find any information that quantifies

that proposition. From all that I've presented to Ira, and this group, about

the subject of silver amalgam none of the information supports its being a

safe product for over all good health......... Nothing!!

Challenging questions are one thing but when they get to be like some that

he's presented I really question his motives. That is the reason I've sought

to have him come forth and be forthright as to just what his agenda really

is for being involved in this groups quest for gallbladder, liver and

general health.

Dale

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>