Re: gallstones are formed..Agnes...

[Guest guest]

Dear Agnes,

Thank you for correcting my 'famous' stone pic from 'calcium'

to 'cholesterol' but you need to change it again. It wasn't 'stones'

as in many, it was one 1 cm stone. Please correct that on the site

also.

The stone was completely round. The three stones you see in the pic

is a result of the doctor cutting open the one stone to look inside.

That is why you missunderstood the 'irregular shape' and was thinking

it was three triangular shaped stones.

So, the round stone should have pushed out but my hereditarily bad

gallbladder had reached the point of a post-diseased state. The inner

walls of my gb were thickened to 4mm and the inside texture was very

course. The pressure from the ailing, sluggish gb was also irregular

and not enough to produce the pressure to force the round stone from

exiting. If I'd had a healthier gb it may have been working enough to

force the round stone out. The size was the main problem, and the pre-

diseasing gb, not the shape of the stone. The 1 cm (hard) object

trying to pass through the 2mm cystic duct needed to be broken down

to pass through.

The stone was perfectly round but it does have a multi-bubbled

surface. Ultrasound could not detect anything but a white, round

object.

Thanks for the post and please change my pic to one stone so people

don't think I had 'alien' stones in my gb. haha

I don't have a balloon so the bet is off. I'd have to break open my

glass conversational piece container on my coffee table to get my

stone out anyway. :-)

Be healthy.

Barry.

>

> >For me the answer is yes and no. I did flush out around 12 small,

1-2

> >mm, black, hard, pigments stones on my 2nd out of 8 flushes. The 1

cm

> >hard cholesterol stone in my gb proven by 3 ultrasounds during the

4

> >months of flushing never did come out. Hereditary, sluggish, and

> >partially diseased gb didn't allow the stone to exit with

flushing.

>

>

> Barry, there is one subject that may have never been discussed in

this

> forum, but that is a part of your unsuccessful attempt to remove

the " big "

> stone.

>

> The shape of the stone.

>

> If you examine the shape of your stones, you will see that they are

not smut.

>

> Those of you who haven't seen stones, I posted them here:

> http://curezone.com/image_gallery/gallbladder_removed/default.asp?

i=38 & n=39

> http://curezone.com/image_gallery/gallbladder_removed/default.asp?

i=39 & n=39

>

>

>

> Try to put them inside one of those rubber balloons, filed with

water,

> (those long and thin balloons that look like a sausage when blown

big) and

> then try to squeeze them out with the pressure of water.

>

>

> I tried it with marbles, and it worked.

>

> Even though marbles are much bigger then the diameter of rubber

balloon,

> and even though balloon's force is able to hold marbles tight, once

marble

> is in place, it blocks water, and allows pressure to rise to the

point

> where water is able to push marbles forward, all until marble is

outside.

>

> It does take some pressure.

>

>

>

> If you try that with your stones, I bet you will never push them

out.

>

>

> You want to bet? :-)

>

> Water will be passing beside stone, because stones is extremely

irregularly

> shaped.

>

>

>

> So, why are your stones shaped that way?

>

> Because they are composed of many smaller stones? - smaller

fragments? -

> held together with cholesterol?

>

> Have they been different before you started flushing? before you

changed

> your diet?

>

>

> Is there any possibility that something in your bile started

dissolving

> stones, which resulted in the present shape?

>

>

> If it is possible to dissolve stones, wouldn't it be logical that

the first

> parts to dissolve are the parts formed last?

> And, parts formed last are parts that are holding together smaller

fragments?

>

>

> We just have to live with many questions with no answer.

>

>

> You want to bet? :-)

>

> best of health

> Agnes

[Guest guest]

>The stone was perfectly round but it does have a multi-bubbled

>surface. Ultrasound could not detect anything but a white, round

>object.

Barry,

thank you for correcting me, I didn't know that those 3 parts were actually

parts of the single stone.

But,

that multi-bubbled surface

(that actually points toward possibility that stone was formed from many

small bubbles of cholesterol)

still could be the reason for it not to be able to entirely obstruct the

bile flow.

If bile flow is not entirely obstructed, bile will never create pressure

high enough to push it out.

Multi-bubbled surface of your stone would allow bile to pass beside it and

would avoid creating high pressure.

Just some thoughts ...

Do you think that this theory could hold water?

Agnes

[Guest guest]

At 02:27 14.05.2002 +0200, you wrote:

>

>>The stone was perfectly round but it does have a multi-bubbled

>>surface. Ultrasound could not detect anything but a white, round

>>object.

Barry,

take a look at this photo:

http://curezone.com/image_gallery/gallbladder_removed/default.asp?i=34 & n=39

Cholesterol stones with multi-bubbled surface seems to be quite common.

In the same time, calcified stones are " never " with multi-bubbled surface!?

Something to do with way that stones have been created.

Those " multi-bubbled " stones seems to be formed from large number of

smaller stones.

I believe that those smaller stones came directly from the liver

(intrahepatic bile ducts).

Liver, just like gallbladder, (and just like 99% of other tissues inside

human body) have possibility to extract water from bile.

Also, bile can far easier become stagnant deep inside small intrahepatic

bile ducts, then inside huge bile ducts and inside huge gallbladder, where

every motion of human body will cause motion and waves inside gallbladder -

liquid.

Agnes

[Guest guest]

Dear Agnes,

I believe it to be opposite to the action you are describing. I think

your theory has merit only if colic is not present.

The stone would move to the mouth of the gb and block the remaining

flow of bile from the gb. The result was intensive colic gb pain

because the bile was not allowed to pass out. Ultrasound on an attack

in ER showed the gb to be blown up like a balloon because the back

pressure was building up. It was just too hard of an object to pass

the 1 cm stone through the 2mm cystic duct. No pressure, no pain.

The pain meant blockage. If the bile would still flow past than I

could have carried the stone to my grave like most people do.

Also, I wish I had a picture of the inside of my gallbladder. If you

had seen it you would have suggested removal as well. It was that bad

looking. The inner walls were in a pre-diseased state. More stones

would have been produced over my lifetime no matter what my dieting

would be because the problem was hereditary, aged or abused gb and

the reversal of that damage was not possible.

Thanks for your concerns.

Be healthy.

Barry.

>

> >The stone was perfectly round but it does have a multi-bubbled

> >surface. Ultrasound could not detect anything but a white, round

> >object.

>

>

> Barry,

> thank you for correcting me, I didn't know that those 3 parts were

actually

> parts of the single stone.

>

> But,

> that multi-bubbled surface

> (that actually points toward possibility that stone was formed from

many

> small bubbles of cholesterol)

> still could be the reason for it not to be able to entirely

obstruct the

> bile flow.

>

>

> If bile flow is not entirely obstructed, bile will never create

pressure

> high enough to push it out.

>

> Multi-bubbled surface of your stone would allow bile to pass beside

it and

> would avoid creating high pressure.

>

> Just some thoughts ...

>

> Do you think that this theory could hold water?

> Agnes

[Guest guest]

Agnes,

That picture of those cholesterol hardened gallstones looks exactly

like mine. It IS very common because 90% of all hardened gallstones

are made of cholesterol, or cholesterol-shelled texture. Calcium

stones are more rare and can probably more easily flush out because

of smoothness. Who knows? Size is still a major factor. As well as

condition of gb for pressure, etc.

I believe those multi-bubbled cholesterol stones can come from the

liver or gb. I also believe in most cases they are formed in the gb

just because of the intensive purpose of the gb to remove water from

the bile and condense the bile. That is the purpose of the gb after

all. Concentrate the bile in a reservoir for aiding digestion. Even

though the liver and most bodily parts will extract water, the gb

does it more because that is a main function of purpose. Small liver

stones are very rare but gallbladder stones are common because of the

possiblity to stagnate in the reservoir which intensively extracts

water. A small stone in the liver is very rare unless the liver is in

very bad condition or is very sluggish. That small stone can then

roll down into the gallbladder and gorw bigger there if it doesn't

exit beforehand. It may start as a grain of sand from the liver but

the major production of size is formed in the gb. Just a thought.

Thanks again.

Barry.

> >

> >>The stone was perfectly round but it does have a multi-bubbled

> >>surface. Ultrasound could not detect anything but a white, round

> >>object.

>

> Barry,

>

> take a look at this photo:

> http://curezone.com/image_gallery/gallbladder_removed/default.asp?

i=34 & n=39

>

> Cholesterol stones with multi-bubbled surface seems to be quite

common.

>

> In the same time, calcified stones are " never " with multi-bubbled

surface!?

> Something to do with way that stones have been created.

>

> Those " multi-bubbled " stones seems to be formed from large number of

> smaller stones.

>

> I believe that those smaller stones came directly from the liver

> (intrahepatic bile ducts).

>

>

>

> Liver, just like gallbladder, (and just like 99% of other tissues

inside

> human body) have possibility to extract water from bile.

>

> Also, bile can far easier become stagnant deep inside small

intrahepatic

> bile ducts, then inside huge bile ducts and inside huge

gallbladder, where

> every motion of human body will cause motion and waves inside

gallbladder -

> liquid.

>

> Agnes

[Guest guest]

And where is this picture? I have looked under files and photos and

not seen it. Dawn

> Dear Agnes,

>

> Thank you for correcting my 'famous' stone pic from 'calcium'

> to 'cholesterol' but you need to change it again. It

wasn't 'stones'

> as in many, it was one 1 cm stone. Please correct that on the site

> also.

>

> The stone was completely round. The three stones you see in the pic

> is a result of the doctor cutting open the one stone to look

inside.

> That is why you missunderstood the 'irregular shape' and was

thinking

> it was three triangular shaped stones.

>

[Guest guest]

It's on the curezone site. Photo section. I don't remember the photo

number for my stone but I think it falls under the photo section that

has pictures of gallstones surgically removed. I think I'm picture

#37 or #38. Not sure which.

Barry.

> > Dear Agnes,

> >

> > Thank you for correcting my 'famous' stone pic from 'calcium'

> > to 'cholesterol' but you need to change it again. It

> wasn't 'stones'

> > as in many, it was one 1 cm stone. Please correct that on the

site

> > also.

> >

> > The stone was completely round. The three stones you see in the

pic

> > is a result of the doctor cutting open the one stone to look

> inside.

> > That is why you missunderstood the 'irregular shape' and was

> thinking

> > it was three triangular shaped stones.

> >

[Guest guest]

Barry, you always have me coming up with more questions. If you were

a person that did not drink a lot of water or liquids period (I am)

do you think you would have more of a likelihood of developing

stones? Would drinking more water help? Does it matter what kind of

water? We have a really good well with low mineral content. Dawn

> Agnes,

the intensive purpose of the gb to remove water from

> the bile and condense the bile. That is the purpose of the gb after

> all. Concentrate the bile in a reservoir for aiding digestion. Even

> though the liver and most bodily parts will extract water, the gb

> does it more because that is a main function of purpose.

[Guest guest]

Hey Dawn,

Curiousity is good. It causes us to look for answers and study more.

My opinions are only 'that' and can't be etched into any kind of

medical book but I will try and share what I have learned by persoanl

experience and collected knowledge on gallstones, flushing, and pain.

I've been drinking bottled water for 6 years and I guess it doesn't

matter if it is bottled or not because I still produced gallstones.

My pain has only started within the last year. I'm sure that drinking

bottled water is better than tap water for many bodily reasons.

I also think that drinking more water helps everything in your body.

Drinking lots of water will help prevent gallstones and kidney stones

as well. I try and drink a lot of water now. When I developed

my 'problem' stone in the gb I remember that I wasn't drinking a lot

of water like I should have. Most importantly was the fact that my

diet was horrible. I'd eat chips everynight before sleeping, 6 cokes

a day, pizza twice a week, Mcs one or twice a week, etc.

The dieting was probably more of the cause for bile unbalance than

the lack of water or fluids. Who knows? Everyone will always tell you

to drink more water. As much as you can. I drink at least 10 glasses

a day now and sip water throughout the day as well.

Good luck with your health.

Barry.

> > Agnes,

> the intensive purpose of the gb to remove water from

> > the bile and condense the bile. That is the purpose of the gb

after

> > all. Concentrate the bile in a reservoir for aiding digestion.

Even

> > though the liver and most bodily parts will extract water, the gb

> > does it more because that is a main function of purpose.

[Guest guest]

Barry, I just want to thank you for how helpful and polite and well-

wishing you are. There has been some heated discussion here lately. I

think it is positive, but sometimes we just have to agree to

disagree. I appreciate what everyone has to offer but hate to see

personal attacks. Everyone has to make their own way and I really

believe as you do, that we make these decisions based on our

knowledge and experience. It is up to us with a little help from our

friends. Dawn

As much as you can. I drink at least 10 glasses

> a day now and sip water throughout the day as well.

>

> Good luck with your health.

>

> Barry.

>

>

>

>

> > Barry, you always have me coming up with more questions. If you

> were

> > a person that did not drink a lot of water or liquids period (I

am)

> >

[Guest guest]

Dawn,

Thanks for your kindness. I hope you find the truth and answers for

your ailments. Everyone comes in here to find relief from some kind

of pain. We read all kinds of view points. Try what you think will

work best for your body. No one can ever tell you what is the best

choice for you. You have to experiment and do what your body needs to

be healthy, happy, and pain-free.

Good luck. You are in the right place to find your answers. There are

many solutions discussed in here that may be the one you are needing.

Keep searching, flushing, reading, experimenting until you reach your

goal.

Barry.

> > > Barry, you always have me coming up with more questions. If you

> > were

> > > a person that did not drink a lot of water or liquids period (I

> am)

> > >