Re: My theory on the liver flush….I hope all will read and comment.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mark,

Thank you for this explanation of theory. I agree with you totally.

In fact, this has been what I have been trying to say or convey

myself in my many posts about 'knowing your stone'. There are bile

balls or globs of cholesterol that a lot of people are calling stones

that have been produced by the liver in the hundreds by the flushing

methods itself and then there are 'real' gallstones of the hard

cholesterol or calcium type that is the real cause behind the colic

attacks of gallbladder pain. There are two different 'stones' that

need to be identified so that the correct course of action can be

taken.

Flush stones or Gallstones.

Flush stones are balls of soft bile and cholesterol coming from the

liver and is produced more by the flush method than by bodily

misfunction. They come out in a flush by the hundreds and thousands

and are usually soft and squishy. They will normally exit the body in

the non-ball state with regular bile processing and elimination in

regular stool.

Gallstones are the hard stones made of calcified cholesterol,

cholesterol shell, pigments, or calcuim that sit in the gallbladder

and are too big and hard to exit with regular bodily function.

Flushing may or may not remove them depending on size, condition of

gb for pressure, bile flow, etc. Dieting can help to desolve them

over a long period of time and they are most likely to reoccur in 50%

of the cases after removal by medication, lithotripsy, or some other

method leaving the gb in place. Only surgery will prevent gallstones

from returning.

Flushing should always be attempted to remove gallstones before

opting for surgery. Why not go for it and keep your organ? Flip side

is removal may be the correct course for your body. Course of action

should be flushing, lithotripsy (if you are a candidate), medication,

dieting, and lastly surgery.

Flushing will usually become a lifetime endevour because once the gb

starts producing stones it will continue no matter what the diet is.

That is because of the hereditary, aging, or diseased level that the

gb has reached before attempting to cleanse it. Expect to drink tons

of oil in order to stay stone free over the remaining years of your

life. Strict dieting should also be added to happy living.

So, gallstones are a different animal than a flushed bile-cholesterol

glob or ball. They need to be defined seperately in order to

correctly study the choices and methods needed to eliminate the

problem. Knowledge is first before action. Know your stone.

Thanks for saying extensivly what my brain has been thinking and

trying to explain already.

Good luck in your search for healthier, happier, and pain free

living.

Barry.

>

>

>

> My theory on the liver flush….I hope all will read and comment.

>

>

> originally posted at:

> http://curezone.com/forums/message.asp?F=80 & I=1470

>

> by Mark

> ======================================================

> Subject: My theory on the liver flush….I hope all will read and

comment.

> From: Mark < no email >

> Date: 10:03 May 09 2002

>

>

> Hello,

>

> I'm posting this information on the liver flush in order to gather

more

> information about the process and to disclose what my research has

> uncovered. I have performed my 1st flush just over a week and a

half ago. I

> now have some mild pain on the right side of my ribs. I passed

approx. 60

> stones on my first flush.

>

> Overview of the Liver/Bile/Gull bladder system:

>

> Special cells in the liver produce bile. Bile is composed of bile

acids,

> salts, cholesterol, and waste products. The bile collects in a

series of

> ducts. The network of ducts join larger ducts until one large duct

exits

> the liver. This duct is 10-12 mm in diameter and all internal ducts

branch

> off of 2 larger ducts that go to each lobe of the liver and get

smaller as

> they branch out even farther (like tree branches).

>

> The gull bladder is a small organ (about 3 " long and 1 " wide) that

sits

> below the liver on the right side of the chest just below/at the

rib cage.

> It has a duct that meets the liver duct at a " Y " . The duct it named

the

> common duct after they intersect. The common duct runs into the

upper part

> of the small intestine.

>

> Bile collects in the liver, runs through the ducts, and about 50%

of it

> goes into the gull bladder and the rest is held in the common duct

or

> empties into the small intestine. The purpose of the gull is to

concentrate

> the bile by removing water from it making it more potent.

>

> Bile is needed to help digest fats. When you eat fats, a hormone is

> released that makes the gull and the common duct contract to

squeeze out

> the bile to meet the food leaving the stomach. The bile acts to

digest the

> fat so that it will be absorbed in the intestine.

>

> The average adult produces close to 1 liter of bile per day (range

from 400

> to 800 ml). When you are fasting, bile collects in the gull bladder

and

> common duct waiting to be released when you eat fats.

>

> Bile is the only transport mechanism to rid the body of excess

cholesterol.

> Cholesterol is not soluble in water, which means it does not

dissolve in

> water. It is however fat-soluble so it dissolves in fats and fatty

acids.

> Bile contains extra cholesterol produced in the liver or by

consumption.

> The bile acids (and phospho-lipids) keep the cholesterol in a

liquid state

> in the bile. During digestion some cholesterol is re-absorbed in

the gut

> and some is expelled in the feces. This is how the body gets rid of

extra

> cholesterol.

>

> The vast majority of the bile acids (95% +) are re-absorbed by the

ileum (a

> part of the intestine). The ileum has a direct blood flow back to

the liver

> and the bile acids are recycled constantly to the liver to start the

> process over again.

>

> My theory of the formation of cholesterol gull stones:

>

> The stones that one gets from the liver flush are no doubt made of

> cholesterol. This is true. I believe how and where they are formed

is

> misunderstood.

>

> When the flush is performed, one consumes Epsom salt to dilate the

bile

> ducts. I have not verified any validity to this other than

magnesium has a

> relaxing effect on smooth muscle tissue, which means it would relax

the

> gull and duct muscles. This is accepted as fact of this mineral on

muscle

> tissue.

>

> Then, after eating a very light meal you fast for the rest of the

day (many

> fast for longer). The liver still produces bile during this time

and it

> stores it in the gull and bile ducts. So you are essentially

filling up the

> gull bladder with bile during the fast.

>

> You then drink a massive dose of olive oil (fat) and lemon or

grapefruit

> juice. I still do not know what effect the lemon/grapefruit has in

this

> flush. The olive oil however, once in the stomach, turns on a

massive

> release of the hormone that makes the gull and bile ducts contract.

You get

> a MAJOR spasm from these organs from a massive dose of the hormone.

This

> spasm can be felt in some people during the flush. I believe that

this is

> not a good idea as the gull and common ducts will contract like

they never

> have before, possibly causing some damage to some tissues. Getting

a huge

> dose of any hormone will cause a severe reaction in the body that

can be

> negative. The contractions spill out a large volume of bile into

the small

> intestine to meet the fat and help you digest it.

>

> After doing the flush myself, my bowel movements had oil in them.

This was

> obviously un-digested olive oil that made the entire trip through

my gut.

> My first bowel movement produced only a few stones. They were the

green

> ones about the size of a pea and they floated on the surface. My

second

> produced many stones, 50 or more about the same size.

>

> How the stones are formed:

>

> When there is a lack of bile acids in bile, the cholesterol in the

bile is

> no longer able to stay in a liquid state and it precipitates out

into

> " gobs " of cholesterol. I believe that during the flush there is a

> significant loss of bile acids from the system. Remember, this is a

> recycling type of system from the ileum to the liver. If during the

flush

> you do not re-absorb the bile acids through the intestinal wall,

and you

> end up with a liver that produces new bile that is lacking

sufficient bile

> acids to keep the cholesterol in the liver in its liquid state.

Therefore,

> the cholesterol " gobs " form in the bile ducts in the liver and in

the gull

> bladder. I believe that the bile acids are not re-absorbed by the

ileum

> because the undigested oil coats the lining of the intestines

preventing

> them from being re-absorbed properly in the system. Olive oil coats

things

> very nicely and will coat the lining of the intestines making it

impossible

> to absorb anything or much of anything in the gut. Thus you pass

the bile

> acids beyond the ileum without re-absorption and this creates a

deficiency

> of bile acids in this system, which depends on re-circulation the

work

> properly.

> The stones form overnight primarily in the liver and the ducts

growing in

> size as the move along. They then dump into the intestine, as your

liver

> naturally wants to get rid of them. They then show up 1-2 days

later in

> your loose stools. It takes the system at least that long to build

up

> enough bile acids again to keep the cholesterol in a liquid state

which

> keeps the " gobs " of cholesterol from forming.

>

> So, the flush gets out real cholesterol stones, mostly stones that

the

> flush itself has created due to a lack of bile acids in the system.

This is

> why people constantly get out stones when doing the flush, because

they are

> making them in the process. One post on this board was that someone

has

> counted over 31,000 stones in 15 or so flushes. That is because

they make

> them in the liver every time they do the flush. I'll bet that folks

that

> flush a lot lower their cholesterol due to elimination and not a

lot of

> re-absorption.

>

> Some simple facts are this, if the liver puts out up to 1 liter of

bile in

> a day and if your liver was all stuffed up with stones, then you

would have

> some serious major health problems and your liver would not last

long with

> a backup like that. You would most likely get acute symptoms in

several

> days to weeks if your bile flow was blocked much at all. Case in

point, a

> friend's baby just had biliary artresis (where there is no flow of

bile

> from the liver) and this baby was in ICU in just a few weeks. Her

liver was

> green/black from bile backup and she was very sick. One of the

photos on

> this site shows a GREEN liver section with green stones lying in

some

> ducts. This photo is of a severely diseased liver (so much so it

turned

> green with bile pigments). These stones formed because the liver

was not

> functioning properly and with a lack of bile acids, these stones

showed up

> the in the diseased organ which is normal in this case.

>

>

> People claim to have passed very large stones that were several

inches.

> This is a physical impossibility. The bile duct will stretch, but

if you

> stretch them like that, you ARE going to feel a lot of pain. Just

like an

> acute attack if one gets stuck in the gull opening. The ducts will

stretch,

> but not that big. If you are getting stones this large, they are

created in

> the small intestine. How? Simple. The large dump of bile that is

lacking in

> bile acids will precipitate large gobs of cholesterol in the

intestine just

> like in the liver. The mixing itself of the bile with the contents

of the

> stomach will dilute the bile acids and cause this to happen. It is

> impossible to pass a very large stone through those ducts! It's

like trying

> to jamb a basketball through your garden hose. You would have

severe pain

> just like in acute gull attacks.

>

> Now I do not deny that this flush can be helpful. If you are having

> indigestion problems (especially after eating a large fatty meal)

your gull

> may be full of stones, which will not allow a lot of bile to be

discharged

> when necessary. This can lead to digestion problems, especially

when eating

> fatty meals. The flush in this case may help clear things out.

However you

> must realize that you will also create stones in the liver by doing

the

> flush. The flush may also get out calcified stones, which would be

a good

> thing to get rid of. Doing the flush over and over again is not

necessary,

> as you will always get out some stones as the flush produces them.

Some say

> that they do some flushes and get no stones. This is possible as

either the

> cholesterol in the liver is low (with the case of vegans or in the

case of

> frequent flushers) or there are enough bile acids to keep the

cholesterol

> from precipitating out of the bile. Also consider that cholesterol

will

> reabsorb in the intestine and that if your intestines are not

totally

> coated with olive oil, you will dissolve some of the stones and

they will

> be reabsorbed. Not to mention the effect of bacteria on the stones

and what

> the oil and juice does to the bacterial flora. Put the stones in a

jar wet

> and see what happens to them. They dissolve rapidly due to bacteria

> breaking them down. This would normally happen in the gut, but the

oil

> probably kills much of the bacteria there too.

>

> If the oil / lemon does kill a lot of bacteria, then one should also

> consider a pro-biotic so as to not develop a yeast infection. (the

oil

> probably kills the yeast too however). These bacteria not only aid

in the

> formation of the secondary bile acids, they help digest

cholesterol. If you

> get some gut problem after doing the flush, it's probably because

you have

> effectively killed a lot of flora in the intestines. This is why

the Epsom

> salt is a laxative; it kills the bacteria in the gut also.

>

> After doing the flush, I know that my guts were coated with the

oil. I

> could just " feel " it in my colon and could see it in my stools.

>

> Now lets consider this, I believe that God created man and he has

the

> blueprint of our bodies. He made the system to work a certain way

and it

> does its job perfectly well in the average person. If the liver

were to be

> blocked even to 50% flow, you would know it, as you would become

ill really

> fast. That is why stone blockage in the common duct requires

immediate

> surgery. Because the blockage backs up the bile in the liver and

the person

> becomes very sick in only a few days to weeks.

>

> Also, the volume of stones that people get out is a distinct factor

that

> proves the flush makes the stones readily in the liver. If you get

out say

> 1000 stones that are pea sized (5mm average), this is about 17 feet

of duct

> that you would need to have in your liver. If you liver were

roughly 1 foot

> long, you would have 17 ducts the size of your pinky finger running

through

> the liver. Look at a cross section of a liver, the ducts are not

that big

> or numerous and most " ducts " you see in a cross section of the

liver and

> not ducts at all, they are blood vessels. You do not have 17 feet

of 5mm

> duct running through out your liver and therefore it would be

impossible to

> store that many stones in the liver. If you take the volume of the

5mm

> stones and add them all up, the gull could not accommodate that

many even

> though it will stretch.

>

> Now the gull can fill with stones and get quite full, but that does

not

> block the bile from the liver and therefore you have no acute

symptoms.

> Calcified stones only form in the gull when its not working

properly or a

> stone gets to big to leave and collects calcium etc from the bile.

A normal

> gull stone that does not leave the gull for a long period of time

may

> calcify just by natural means. Many drugs (birth control pills

also) cause

> the body to dump unusual amount of minerals in the blood. These

minerals

> find their way into the bile and add themselves to stones in the

gull. Thus

> they calcify over time. If you have calcified stones, your body is

taking

> minerals from your bones in an attempt to balance some bio-chemical

process

> that is malfunctioning.

> In conclusion, the flush may be a good gull bladder flush if your

gull is

> full of stones or you have calcified stones, but its my theory that

the

> stones in the oil/juice flush are created due to a lack of bile

acids in

> the bile because the oil coats the intestines and prevents re-

absorption of

> the bile acids in the system (ileum). You excrete the bile acids

with your

> loose stools and the system then lacks the ability to keep the

cholesterol

> from the liver in a liquid state in the bile and cholesterol stones

> precipitate out as a result. The system recovers in a day or two,

the

> intestines are cleared of the oil film, and the normal bacteria in

the

> intestine flourish again and you no longer get stones produced (in

any

> quantity). I'm sure that the liver does produce these stones all by

itself

> on occasion, but you will almost never see them in normal feces

because

> they are hidden or they were broken down in the intestines from

normal

> processes there.

>

> Suffice to say, this flush could cause a problem in the liver

because if

> the bile acids are to low and small gobs of cholesterol form in the

liver

> ducts they could cause blockages. These blockages however will go

away by

> natural means in healthy persons because the bile acids that make

contact

> with them will re-dissolve the cholesterol stones and free things

up. The

> liver is smart, and will unclog itself naturally. God himself

designed it

> to work that way.

>

> I know people seem to get wonderful health benefits from doing

this, as I

> felt great the day after my flush. Unfortunately, I realized that

my day of

> " euphoria " was just a high because I though I just cleaned out by

liver and

> really helped myself out. Truth is I now feel the same or worst

because of

> my dull pain. The high was a psychological thing for me and may be

for

> others. It gives you a great feeling to think that you are really

assisting

> your liver and your health and people get addicted to this feeling,

I too

> felt it when I saw my stones.

>

> Now as for the real benefits of this flush and all the posts on it

really

> helping people. I believe there is a possibility that maybe people

that do

> the flush get some benefit from the oil, say omega 3 or 6 fatty

acids (or

> some other nutrient in the oil), increased fat soluble vitamins,

vitamin C

> boost from juice, the fact that fasting alone can make you feel

better, and

> possibly better digestion from clearing the gull and enabling it to

work

> better. This alone can increase digestion. Poor digestion is linked

to

> allergies because large un-digested fats and protein strains get

into the

> blood stream and cause allergic symptoms. If you increase bile in

the

> digestive process, it makes for more complete digestion and

absorption of

> nutrients and you avoid the absorption of partially or un-digested

fats,

> proteins and other nutrients which can cause problems (allergies).

>

> If you have any question or would like me to reference my

information set

> forth here, please e-mail me at pushner@a...

>

> As for my gull pain that I now have from the flush, I believe that

it is

> due to strain on the muscles and connective tissues around my gull

and bile

> ducts due to the massive abnormal contractions that the oil had

produced

> and that the pain will subside with time. The Epsom salt may have

also

> caused some irritation because my stomach (left side) gets some odd

pain

> now too.

>

> I apologize if this post has a negative effect on this site in any

way.

> This is a wonderful site and has lots of useful information and I

commend

> the people who created and maintain it. We all need to take our own

health

> in our own hands with the condition of the current health system. I

just

> want to share my information and theories with everyone and will

continue

> to investigate this issue. Please feel free to e-mail me with

feedback

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Mark D P

[Guest guest]

OK, this whole discussion is extremely discouraging. How do you

explain the pics of surgically removed gall bladder full of " stones " ?

Mine look just like that. So were they not in the gall bladder?

(Actually many of them look like that, others don't). Dawn

> Dear Mark,

>

> Thank you for this explanation of theory. I agree with you totally.

> In fact, this has been what I have been trying to say or convey

> myself in my many posts about 'knowing your stone'. There are bile

> balls or globs of cholesterol that a lot of people are calling

stones

> that have been produced by the liver in the hundreds by the

flushing

> methods itself and then there are 'real' gallstones of the hard

> cholesterol or calcium type that is the real cause behind the colic

> attacks of gallbladder pain. There are two different 'stones' that

> need to be identified so that the correct course of action can be

> taken.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dawn,

Color and looks may be the same but hard and soft are different.

Gallstones are not soft and are not softened by the fasting or

dieting before a flush (in most cases). Bile balls from the liver,

ducts, and gallbladder are globs of round bile with the same color

and look but texture is different. I got out 2,000 soft bile balls,

12 small hard pigment black stones, tons of sludge and grainy (pre-

stone) stuff in 8 cleanses but the 1 cm hard cholesterol gallstone

that was taken out of my gallbladder is not like anything I ever got

out in a flush except that it was round and the same color. It was

hard as a rock. Hard like my small pigment stones. In fact, my black

pigment stones were more of a marble hardness instead of like a hard

Coco-Puff.

I'm not saying the flush doesn't work. Worked for me. There is just a

difference to the stones that need to be clarified. Some are harder

to eliminate than others. You can look at it that way if you want.

Just an advanced way at looking at the flush results.

Some people have theories that the balls of soft bile which is formed

in the liver and gb come out in a flush because of the actually

method of doing the flush. Others believe the liver or gb makes those

balls without the flush and is waiting to come out with the flush.

Whatever belief works for you. Study it all and come to a conclusion

if you want. The main thing is to stop colic. Whatever works. Who

cares if they call them pebbles, globs, rocks, balls, stones. Just

get them out and be happy. Live painfree.

Good luck in your search for health and happiness.

Barry.

> > Dear Mark,

> >

> > Thank you for this explanation of theory. I agree with you

totally.

> > In fact, this has been what I have been trying to say or convey

> > myself in my many posts about 'knowing your stone'. There are

bile

> > balls or globs of cholesterol that a lot of people are calling

> stones

> > that have been produced by the liver in the hundreds by the

> flushing

> > methods itself and then there are 'real' gallstones of the hard

> > cholesterol or calcium type that is the real cause behind the

colic

> > attacks of gallbladder pain. There are two different 'stones'

that

> > need to be identified so that the correct course of action can be

> > taken.

> >

> >