Re: gallstones are formed in the liver

[Guest guest]

Arthur,

Results of my own personal research into topic has led me to my own

conclusions. I have read in two different liver informational sites

about liver dissection during autopsy, gallstones without liver

stones present, etc. I don't have the sites bookmarked but I will

look for them and see if I can run them down for you. Some

information that you run across while researching stays in your mind

but you don't always save the information for later. I wish I had now.

I remember that while I was searching for liver information that

there were hundreds of sites to run through. If you find them first

please let me know where I had read that.

Barry.

> <<The point is that

> they have dissected every part of the liver on 'enough' of the

people

> who have died with gallstones in the gallbladder to reach a

> conclusion which is based on facts>>

>

> sorry to be a pain in the butt...

>

> but how do you know this. can you site a study, a book, research

paper, person, or anything concrete, or are you just assuming this

has been done.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i posted our debate in the oxyplus list. (i didnt use your name) there are some

very intelligent people there. i asked for help in proving my point, or for

information to disprove what i have said.

i also asked the chiropractor i mentioned about your experience with pain after

flushes. i am very curious, because as i said before, he made a bold claim that

everything should pass without serious problems if you use the epsom salts. i

will get back to you with his response. or... you can join oxyplus for a few

days and hear some intelligent commentary. concrete evidence is usually posted

there as a means to back up arguments.

[Guest guest]

> From: " barry91162 " <barry91162@...>

> I have read in two different liver informational sites about liver dissection

during autopsy, gallstones without liver stones present, etc.

Since you're reading " medical " information, from medical sources, you're going

to get medical conclusions. From the same people who wanted you to have

surgery.

You find what you look for.

[Guest guest]

Arthur,

I think you are missunderstanding my colic. I just assumed you had

been in the group for awhile and knew about my progress as I was

posting all of my results along the way. Let me re-explain the pain

before you ask your doctors again.

My pain was not during the flushing itself. The effects of the ES and

oil coating my system would sooth my entire digestive system.

The problem was a few days or even a week after the flush (middle of

the two week rest between flushes) when the oil left my system the

colic would return the same and increased slowly over the 4 months

that I flushed. The oil from flushing was coating my system and only

putting a 'bandaide' on my true problem.

Note: some people who begin flushing think that this is the cure to

their pain and they create a false sense of success. Ultrasound keep

me informed on the true fact that I still had a 1 cm hard gallstone

in my gb and needed to work harder to eliminate it. In fact, after my

first flush I felt so great that I thought I was cured. I rushed down

to the radiologist to confirm my success only to be slapped down to

reality. I did this 3 times between flushes because I had no pain for

several days after the flush and felt cured. You will notice this

sense of success a lot in the testimonies. If everyone had ultrasound

as cheap and readily available to them they could monitor their own

progress during the course of their attempts to cleanse. Fortunately

I had this internal examining tool available to me to help me

understand what my body was doing.

The only time I had colic in a flush was when I attempted a pioneer

flush method which was to flush during a colic attack. One hour into

a mid-night colic attack I drank the oil drink only to have it bring

on the worse attack of my life. I ended up in ER with ultrasound

showing my gb blow up like a balloon with the danger of a possible

explosion. The stone had moved to the mouth of my gb to exit and

since it was too big and hard to pass through the 2 mm cyctic duct

the pain would result from the backup pressure of the bile trying to

exit. Needless to say, I never tryed a colic-flush again.

Anyway, I hope this explains what I meant before when I said I still

had pain during the time I was flushing.

Barry.

> i posted our debate in the oxyplus list. (i didnt use your name)

there are some very intelligent people there. i asked for help in

proving my point, or for information to disprove what i have said.

>

> i also asked the chiropractor i mentioned about your experience

with pain after flushes. i am very curious, because as i said before,

he made a bold claim that everything should pass without serious

problems if you use the epsom salts. i will get back to you with his

response. or... you can join oxyplus for a few days and hear some

intelligent commentary. concrete evidence is usually posted there as

a means to back up arguments.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i understand perfectly what you are saying. i think i got it the first time.

<<The only time I had colic in a flush was when I attempted a pioneer

flush method which was to flush during a colic attack. One hour into

a mid-night colic attack I drank the oil drink only to have it bring

on the worse attack of my life.>>

did you take the epsom salts that night?

i still think what happened to you is that more stones kept moving up after each

flush, and this is what was the cause of your pain. i think the relief you

experienced was not because of the coating effect of the oil, but because you

were flushing stones. i am fairly intimate with the effects of alot of fats. in

point of fact, cold pressed olive oil, is more of a cleanser than a substance

that will soothe. raw butter and raw animal fats have a soothing effect.

[Guest guest]

Arthur,

Could it be that will " all " reasonably healthy gallbladders, " everything

should pass without serious problems if you use the epsom salts " . Dr. Hulda

says about that just like your Chiropractor. I've added the

" reasonably healthy " part. Barry's gallbladder was very diseased, and could

have been very stiff and nonelastic. The Epsom Salts may have not had the

same effect on his gallbladder for that reason. Just a thought.

Vince

>From: " Arthur Luckower " <aluckower@...>

>

>i also asked the chiropractor i mentioned about your experience with pain

>after flushes. i am very curious, because as i said before, he made a bold

>claim that everything should pass without serious problems if you use the

>epsom salts.

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[Guest guest]

i'm not an expert on this. although the person i mentioned said he had

administered thousands of these cleanses. he made no caveat for a person

with a diseased gall bladder. i am waiting for his reply in the matter.

[Guest guest]

What is the purpose of the oxyplus list ? HBOT ? Ozone ?

----- Original Message -----

From: " Arthur Luckower " <aluckower@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 12:08 AM

Subject: Re: Re: gallstones are formed in the liver

> i posted our debate in the oxyplus list. (i didnt use your name) there

are some very intelligent people there. i asked for help in proving my

point, or for information to disprove what i have said.

>

> i also asked the chiropractor i mentioned about your experience with pain

after flushes. i am very curious, because as i said before, he made a bold

claim that everything should pass without serious problems if you use the

epsom salts. i will get back to you with his response. or... you can join

oxyplus for a few days and hear some intelligent commentary. concrete

evidence is usually posted there as a means to back up arguments.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Arthur,

You can believe what you want to about my body but I know what it was

doing. I had ultrasound proof of my internal progress. My colic was

caused by a 1 cm hard gallstone that would move into the mouth of the

gb to exit. It would block the opening and cause my gb to bloat as it

couldn't pass the bile out of the gb and the stone was too big to

pass through the 2mm cystic duct. This was 3-4 times a week at night

after eating certain fatty foods. There were no more stones found in

my removed gallbladder. If stones were moving down between flushes

from my liver than I should still have the colic pain. I haven't had

pain in 6 weeks and I've been eating everything at any time of day or

night.

Your opinions of my body are only supporting your theory but not

everyone is the same. Everyone has different problems and I have

fully investigated mine.

Anyway, good luck with your body, health, happiness, and pain free

living.

Barry.

> i understand perfectly what you are saying. i think i got it the

first time.

>

> <<The only time I had colic in a flush was when I attempted a

pioneer

> flush method which was to flush during a colic attack. One hour

into

> a mid-night colic attack I drank the oil drink only to have it

bring

> on the worse attack of my life.>>

>

> did you take the epsom salts that night?

>

> i still think what happened to you is that more stones kept moving

up after each flush, and this is what was the cause of your pain. i

think the relief you experienced was not because of the coating

effect of the oil, but because you were flushing stones. i am fairly

intimate with the effects of alot of fats. in point of fact, cold

pressed olive oil, is more of a cleanser than a substance that will

soothe. raw butter and raw animal fats have a soothing effect.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I look for truths and facts and find them. You look for something to

support your ideas. Believe what you want. It's a free world.

I was looking for perminant relief from bilinary colic and found it.

I tryed the alternative methods first to see if my body would

eliminate the pain while keeping my gb but the truth was that the gb

was wasted. I saw the removed organ and I know that in my particular

case I made the right choice for my body. So, yes, eventually I did

find what I was looking for. Pain free living. In this case the

doctors were right. Not always but this time yes. I definitely tried

the alternative approach first because I wanted to save my bad organ

but it got unbearable with the pain. Every body is different. We are

all looking for health and happiness.

Good luck in your search for truth.

Barry.

> > From: " barry91162 " <barry91162@y...>

> > I have read in two different liver informational sites about

liver dissection during autopsy, gallstones without liver stones

present, etc.

>

> Since you're reading " medical " information, from medical sources,

you're going to get medical conclusions. From the same people who

wanted you to have surgery.

>

> You find what you look for.

[Guest guest]

> From: " barry91162 " <barry91162@...>

> This was 3-4 times a week at night after eating certain fatty foods.

Barry,

Didn't that tell you something?

[Guest guest]

Actually , 'certain fatty foods' was being very vague. It got to

a point that eating anything (crackers, fruits, etc) would cause the

colic to come.

Yes, it did tell me something. It was very obvious that my gallstone

was trying to exit but was too big and hard to pass out through the

cystic duct. Now that it's out I can eat anything at anytime. Very

liberating. And I know that gallstones can never come back again to

haunt me later.

Barry.

> > From: " barry91162 " <barry91162@y...>

>

> > This was 3-4 times a week at night after eating certain fatty

foods.

>

> Barry,

>

> Didn't that tell you something?

[Guest guest]

> " barry91162 " <barry91162@y...>

> Now that it's out I can eat anything at anytime.

Barry,

Maybe your gallbladder was trying to tell you something.

Now that it's out, where is that certain fatty food, or whatever, going

to go? Are you going to remove your bowel next? Or your heart? Or

your legs?

Very seriously, if you eat anything you want there might and probably

will be a price to pay.

Maybe consider taking the very best care of yourself in the first place

and you won't need to keep removing things!

Best regards,

[Guest guest]

,

Now you are sounding a little ridiculous. Remove my bowel, my heart?

If you haven't heard yet, the gallbladder is a secondary digestive

organ that you can live normally without if you have too. While it is

always better to keep it if you can (if it isn't diseased) you can

surely live a normal life without it even though you may have heard a

lot of scare tactics of the opposite nature.

I can eat anything. Yes, I have that freedom to eat anything without

pain. That doesn't mean that I will not continue on a good diet for

the rest of my body. The 'anything I want' is not to be abused for

the sake of my body. It is only a statement of freedom and

deliberation from gallstone pain after eating.

If you don't know where fatty foods go without the bile reservoir of

the gb you need to study some more on the subject. For me it exits

the same way without any problems or difference that I have noticed.

'Take care of myself so I don't have to keep removing things'? Come

on . You must be in this liver/gb cleanse group for a reason as

well, right? Maybe it was because you weren't taking care of yourself

like you should have too? Lighten up, we are all intelligent human

beings in here.

Good luck with your health, flushing, happiness.

Barry.

> > " barry91162 " <barry91162@y...>

>

> > Now that it's out I can eat anything at anytime.

>

> Barry,

>

> Maybe your gallbladder was trying to tell you something.

>

> Now that it's out, where is that certain fatty food, or whatever,

going

> to go? Are you going to remove your bowel next? Or your heart?

Or

> your legs?

>

> Very seriously, if you eat anything you want there might and

probably

> will be a price to pay.

>

> Maybe consider taking the very best care of yourself in the first

place

> and you won't need to keep removing things!

>

> Best regards,

>

>

[Guest guest]

, best regards? You have got to be kidding? If you spent all the

energy you do trying to convince everyone to think your way, you

might just come up with some real productive invention, the " cure for

cancer " (please don't go there, I know that we can cure ourselves).

Why don't you get off Barry's back? I am normally a pretty polite

person, but you are being totally rude. dmn

Sorry Barry. I am sure you can defend yourself.

> Barry,

>

> Maybe your gallbladder was trying to tell you something.

>

> Now that it's out, where is that certain fatty food, or whatever,

going

> to go? Are you going to remove your bowel next? Or your heart?

Or

> your legs?

>

> Very seriously, if you eat anything you want there might and

probably

> will be a price to pay.

>

> Maybe consider taking the very best care of yourself in the first

place

> and you won't need to keep removing things!

>

> Best regards,

>

>