Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 I had a really bad attack on Monday. I finally ended up taking two vicadan (my last from the trip to ER in Oct.). I have been reading with interest what people can't eat. I can eat bread and in the winter I have a cup of hot chocolate every night. I have kept a diary of what I eat and it just doesn't seem to matter except a lot of fat. What I can't figure out is why the attacks have increased in frequency. They used to be a year or so apart. Then I had the attack in Oct. and the next one April 4th with them now coming at least every two weeks or sooner since then. Many sonograms over the years, 3 hydoscans (last in Jan.) and a CAT scan in April, EKG, chest X-ray and stress test and all show everything is just fine. I have the discomfort under the right rib and the same spot on my back most of the time in between attacks. I have started the magnesium citrate and started drinking at least 3 glasses of apple juice a day with ten Phosfood drops in it. I plan on doing my second flush tomorrow. I am at the end of my rope. I just don't know what to do anymore. Lvquilting@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I had a really bad attack on Monday. I finally ended up taking two vicadan (my last from the trip to ER in Oct.). I have been reading with interest what people can't eat. I can eat bread and in the winter I have a cup of hot chocolate every night. I have kept a diary of what I eat and it just doesn't seem to matter except a lot of fat. What I can't figure out is why the attacks have increased in frequency. They used to be a year or so apart. Then I had the attack in Oct. and the next one April 4th with them now coming at least every two weeks or sooner since then. Many sonograms over the years, 3 hydoscans (last in Jan.) and a CAT scan in April, EKG, chest X-ray and stress test and all show everything is just fine. I have the discomfort under the right rib and the same spot on my back most of the time in between attacks. I have started the magnesium citrate and started drinking at least 3 glasses of apple juice a day with ten Phosfood drops in it. I plan on doing my second flush tomorrow. I am at the end of my rope. I just don't know what to do anymore. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This certainly sounds very serious to me and from what you've noted here the problem may be in the liver more than in the gallbladder. This sounds like you should be keeping away from the chocolates as they are difficult stimulants for the body to process and this could be contributory to paining the liver. Pampering the liver can certainly go a long way towards eliminating the pain of a gallbladder or liver attack I can tell you it has been working for me and when I cheat, which I get to do a lot more now days, I do get some notice of that but not nearly the same as a painful gallbladder attack; http://www.liverdoctor.com/vitalprinciples.shtml If it was possible for you to get to a colonist who also uses ozone in their treatments it would certainly help your body in dealing with getting the needed oxygen to the various digestive organs. I have my own equipment which I have used in the pass to do this myself. I haven't been as diligent in its use of late but it sure is nice to know it's available. I have used it about a month and a half ago when I was dealing with a case of food poisoning and that certainly helped me to get over it in much shorter order than it could have taken. As you can see from these sites there are a lot of interconnections between the organs by means of the hepatic and portal blood system. So, insufflated medical grade ozone is going to be getting to these organs of the body more directly from the intestines instead of the lungs. Keeping in mind that it is also a oxidizer and can't be taken in directly to the lungs because of how sensitive they are. http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus591.html http://www.rnceus.com/ld/portsys.htm Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 >>. What I can't figure out is why the attacks have increased in frequency. They used to be a year or so apart. Then I had the attack in Oct. and the next one April 4th with them now coming at least every two weeks or sooner since then. << I had the exact same experience. Eventually, it became every other night. It was at that point that I very reluctantly had the surgery. It has been 19 months now, and I have been pain-free, and able to eat whatever I want. I am not saying that this should be your choice, only letting you know that it is not the end of the world if you do eventually come to that decision. If you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me privately. That way folks on-list don't have to hear things they have already heard about my experience, and it doesn't take away from the flushing discussions. :} Whichever way you go, I wish you the best of luck. Debra _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Debra, The surgeons won't take my gallbladder out because all my tests are normal. They said that even if they wanted to take it out, insurance wouldn't pay because the tests are normal. > I had the exact same experience. Eventually, it became every other > night. > It was at that point that I very reluctantly had the surgery. It > has been > 19 months now, and I have been pain-free, and able to eat whatever I > want. > I am not saying that this should be your choice, only letting you > know that > it is not the end of the world if you do eventually come to that > decision. > If you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me privately. > That > way folks on-list don't have to hear things they have already heard > about my > experience, and it doesn't take away from the flushing discussions. > :} > > Whichever way you go, I wish you the best of luck. > > Debra > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Boy, do I understand...unfortunately. I've been dealing with mysterious symptoms now for 4 years. I've done tons of tests which come back normal (2 Sonograms, 1 HIDA scan, a zillion blood tests, upper and lower GIs, breath tests, EGD-scope down throat...no CAT scan yet). I've done 13 liver flushes so far and continue to get out very large stones (about 15 1/2 " to 3/4 " over the flushes), so I'm guessing that this may the source of the problem. I've probably flushed about 2,000 smaller (BB size) stones as well. I usually feel pretty good after these flushes which is another hint. I had an interesting experience, and just wanted to validate something...did you feel significantly better after your HIDA scan? I did! Per Dale's comments, I am now completely focused on pampering my liver per Dr Cabot's site/link. I drink lots of water, exercise...and will continue doing flushes until I don't get anything out. I use Dr 's method, and zap the night before each flush (which I do every 2 weeks). This has been the most frustrating thing I have every gone through in my life. The main reason is that we don't know exactly what we're fighting! And if we don't know, how can we expect others to understand. This makes is difficult to " think " or plan your way out. It is truly an exercise in faith! Hang in there...it'll get better! > >>. What I can't > figure out is why the attacks have increased in frequency. They used to > be a year or so apart. Then I had the attack in Oct. and the next one > April 4th with them now coming at least every two weeks or sooner since > then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 After I had the second HIDA I had an attack that night. I forgot to mention I also had the EGD in May. After that they wanted to do a Barium enema and I said NO. Enough is enough!! I ordered Dr. Cabot's book last Tues.from Amazon so hopefully that will come soon. When you do the flush, do you fast for a couple of days, the day of the flush or do you actually eat lightly the day of the flush? The flushes all seem to be different. I really appreciate this list. I think the Dr.s are starting to think that I am nuts! Lvquilting@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Some of my doctors think " it's all in my head " ...and sometimes I have to wonder?!?! Per your question about fasting: I follow Dr 's flushing regimen very strictly. You can access it on her web site (.com -- under product info). It says you can eat lightly the day of the flush. I usually eat oatmeal for breakfast and steamed veggies for lunch with as much water as I can drink before 2:00. Then I eat/drink nothing the rest of the day. Since we seem to be in the same boat, I'd like to compare more notes, so I'll try to send you an email. For others here who may be lurking, the one strange symptom that I've had throughout, and the only thing that medical tests have confirmed is " oily stool " . They found this during a fat malabsorption test. It wasn't really bad (14g - normal is <7, some have been as high as 80 - which points to Celiac disease and other stuff), so the gastro doctor did more tests. The follow on tests didn't show anything. The stool looks greasy/greenish. My theory is that I've got a/some stones blocking the bile ducts and that I'm not getting enough bile into my digestive system, which means I don't have enough to break down all of the fat. What do you think? Does this sound familiar? I have not noticed much change as I've passed the thousands of stones so far, so my theory may be wrong... I'd be interested in thoughts from our fellow gastro fans out there... > After I had the second HIDA I had an attack that night. I forgot to > mention I also had the EGD in May. After that they wanted to do a Barium > enema and I said NO. Enough is enough!! I ordered Dr. Cabot's book last > Tues.from Amazon so hopefully that will come soon. When you do the > flush, do you fast for a couple of days, the day of the flush or do you > actually eat lightly the day of the flush? The flushes all seem to be > different. I really appreciate this list. I think the Dr.s are starting > to think that I am nuts! > > Lvquilting@j... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 >>The surgeons won't take my gallbladder out because all my tests are normal.<< Oh, gosh.....I didn't realize that. If it's normal, then of course you don't even want to consider it. Have the doctors considered biliary dyskenesia? (Spasming if the bile duct.) Evidently, it presents itself much like gallbladder attacks. It it one of the things they made sure to rule out in my case before proceding. I believe it can often be successfully treated with anti-spasmodics. Anyway, it is just one possibility. Debra _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 Deb, How do they test for biliary dyskenesia? I know the nurses and the docs in ER have said in the past that I could have a spastic gallbladder and the gastronomist said it is possible to take out the gallbladder and still have pain because of the bile ducts. He told me if it was that, the only thing they could do was give me pain killers. He also told me you can't pass gallstones. Wish these docs would get better/holistic training!! Lvquilting@... Have the doctors considered biliary dyskenesia? (Spasming if the bile duct.) Evidently, it presents > itself much like gallbladder attacks. It it one of the things they made > sure to rule out in my case before proceeding. I believe it can often be > successfully treated with anti-spasmodics. Anyway, it is just one > possibility. > > Debra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 My GI doc did prescribe NuLev (as he was baffled), which is an anti- spasmodic. It helped a little bit. Taking the combination of Coptis/Curcuma (from sensiblehealth.com) seemed to work better in the interest of calming a bad incident. > Deb, > How do they test for biliary dyskenesia? I know the nurses and the docs > in ER have said in the past that I could have a spastic gallbladder and > the gastronomist said it is possible to take out the gallbladder and > still have pain because of the bile ducts. He told me if it was that, > the only thing they could do was give me pain killers. He also told me > you can't pass gallstones. Wish these docs would get better/holistic > training!! > Lvquilting@j... > > Have the doctors considered biliary dyskenesia? (Spasming if the bile > duct.) Evidently, it presents > > itself much like gallbladder attacks. It it one of the things they > made > > sure to rule out in my case before proceeding. I believe it can often > be > > successfully treated with anti-spasmodics. Anyway, it is just one > > possibility. > > > > Debra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 >>How do they test for biliary dyskenesia? << I was never tested. I was just given anti-spasmodics to take during an attack, if I recall corectly. There are biliary dyskenesia lists with . I briefly belonged to one to find out more about it. You might want to join one to find out more from people who have dealt with it for a while. They might be able to tell you if your symptoms sound like that might be the problem. Debra _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2002 Report Share Posted July 10, 2002 > From: " flushman60 " <johnayo1@...> > the only thing that medical tests have confirmed is " oily stool " . Maybe it was " all in their head " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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