Re: Cholesterol based stones

[Guest guest]

Excellent post Agnes. Thanks.

Jay

[Guest guest]

Excellent post Agnes. Thanks.

Jay

I agree, Jay. Dale's and Agnes' posts have been very informative and

helpful.

Susie

[Guest guest]

At 13:57 30.05.2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Does this question mean that you believe that 90-95% of all hard

>gallstones removed from gallbladders that have been tested as

>cholesterol based instead of calcium based is invalid.

>(weither mine has been tested or not?)

Barry,

Cholesterol is a pearly-white, waxy substance. It is semi-solid.

" Cholesterol based " doesn't mean 100% cholesterol.

All gallstones contain variable amounts of bile pigments!

Some stones contain proteins!

Even stone that contain 95% or 70% cholesterol is still " Cholesterol based "

Other 5% or 30% can be bile pigments & proteins.

No gallstone is 100% cholesterol.

Your stone must contain protein (mucoprotein), on order to be as hard as it is.

Only protein or calcium carbonate can be as hard.

Mucoprotein DEFINITION:

A covalently linked conjugate of protein and polysaccharide, the latter

containing many hexosamine residues and constituting approximately 4 to 30

percent of the weight of the compound; mucoproteins occur mainly in mucous

secretions. (Mucoprotein is secreted by the inner lining of the gallbladder,

also known as the epithelium)

Stones containing proteins are almost only formed inside gallbladder!

There is at least a little bit of bilirubin (yellow/red/brown) or Biliverdin

(green/blue/black)

Those 7 colors: white, yellow/red/brown, green/blue/black can produce any other

color.

Common Bile Pigments:

Bilirubin (linear tetrapyrrole)

color: yellow/red/brown.

Source: liver

Biliverdin (linear tetrapyrrole)

color: green/blue/black

Source: oxidation of bilirubin

References:

=============

http://www.medbroadcast.com/health_topics/health_conditions/gallstones/index

..shtml

" Gallstones are classified as cholesterol stones, calcium bilirubinate stones

(pigment stones) and calcium carbonate stones, which are extremely rare.

Pure stones, however, are almost never found.

All gallstones contain variable amounts of bile pigments, cholesterol, calcium

carbonate, and apatite, and their core usually consists of bile pigments or

mucoprotein, which is secreted by the inner lining of the gallbladder, also

known as the epithelium. "

CHOLESTEROL STONES

http://www.medbroadcast.com/health_topics/health_conditions/gallstones/index

..shtml

The basis of the common cholesterol stone appears to be a precipitation of

cholesterol that cannot be absorbed into solution. Cholesterol, which is

insoluble in water, is carried in solution in the bile. People with cholesterol

stones sometimes secrete a bile that is saturated or supersaturated with

cholesterol. The bile secreted in the liver is abnormal in patients with

cholesterol stones. These patients have a reduced bile salt pool and it seems

that the defect is a lack of bile salts rather than excessive cholesterol.

Gallstones are also a common accompaniment of cirrhosis, as there is often a

reduction in the bile salt pool and a decrease in the bile salt content of the

bile.

The gallbladder really plays a secondary part in allowing the cholesterol

crystals to form a stone. Stones can form in the bile ducts in people who have

had their gallbladders removed (cholecystectomy), which proves that the

gallbladder is not essential for stone production, however, this situation is

really quite rare. There may also be dietary and genetic factors in cholesterol

stone formation, as cholesterol stones are far more common in European and

Western cultures, than in Oriental groups.

PIGMENT STONES

Pigment stones seem to beget stones. For instance, a gallbladder that has a

stone can become obstructed and cause inflammation, which in turn causes more

gallstones. Pigment stones consist of variable quantities of cholesterol,

calcium bilirubinate, and calcium carbonate and produce a predominantly brown

colour. These mixed stones are typically found in groups multiple, and form

around organisms and inflammatory debris.

AHA Scientific Position

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4488

Cholesterol is a soft, waxy substance found among the lipids (fats) in the

bloodstream and in all your body's cells.

What is cholesterol?

http://archives.obs-us.com/obs/english/books/pg/pg173.htm

Cholesterol is a pearly-white, waxy substance found in animal fats and oils. It

is found throughout the body but is produced primarily by the liver.

Cholesterol circulates in the blood, commonly in association with other

saturated and unsaturated fats, and can be either beneficial or harmful. For

instance, it is necessary for making cell membranes and many important

hormones. However, cholesterol may also form gallstones and harmful deposits in

blood vessels.

http://www.gicare.com/pated/edtot24.htm

Over the years, a hardened, waxy substance called cholesterol plaque builds up

on the artery walls, and reduces or blocks blood flow. Organs supplied by these

arteries then become damaged because they cannot get the oxygen and nutrients

they need. For example, when blood flow to the brain is blocked, a stroke

occurs. When plaque completely blocks a coronary artery, a heart attack takes

place.

http://www.prevention.com/cda/finder/1,1345,1198,00.html

" In addition to helping your bones, calcium has a good effect on bile acid

metabolism, " explains Dr. Hofmann. " What has been found is that large doses of

oral calcium form calcium phosphate in the gut. " This sets off a chain of

chemical events that eventually lowers the amount of cholesterol in the

gallbladder, thus reducing the possibility that gallstones will form, he

explains.

It also seems to explain why a study of 872 Dutchmen between the ages of 40 and

59 found that the more calcium the men consumed over a 25-year period, the

fewer gallstones they were likely to have.

In fact, one study in the Netherlands revealed that men who had more than 1,442

milligrams of calcium in their diets every day had a 50 percent lower

prevalence of gallstones.

" Since most individuals have stopped drinking much milk by the time they're 45

years old, it makes good sense to take calcium supplements, " says Dr. Hofmann.

Nonetheless, the view that large doses of supplemental calcium can prevent

gallstones has not yet been tested experimentally. Normal doses of calcium do

not increase the risk of kidney stones, however, and are likely to be good for

both bones and bile. Studies are needed to prove this point as well as to prove

that there are no important risks associated with long-term use of oral calcium

supplements, says Dr. Hofman.

Experts who recommend calcium to help prevent gallstones suggest aiming for the

Daily Value, which is 1,000 milligrams. But before you race out to the

drugstore, Dr. Pitt suggests that you take a moment to check with your

physician, especially if you're a woman.

" Calcium may have something to do with the origin of most of the gallstones in

this country, " says Dr. Pitt. " It's at the center of almost every stone we

find. And in our animal studies, diets with high calcium seem to enhance the

formation of pigment stones, " the stones made of bilirubin.

And keep in mind all of the hormonal factors that affect women, says Dr. Pitt.

It may turn out that calcium prevents gallstones in men but actually

contributes to their formation in women.

[Guest guest]

Agnes,

Great information on stone types in this post. From what I have read

cholesterol based stones (which are the most common gallstone) are

classified as 'cholesterol' type if they have over 70% cholesterol.

Barry.

> >Does this question mean that you believe that 90-95% of all hard

> >gallstones removed from gallbladders that have been tested as

> >cholesterol based instead of calcium based is invalid.

> >(weither mine has been tested or not?)

>

>

>

> Barry,

>

>

> Cholesterol is a pearly-white, waxy substance. It is semi-solid.

>

> " Cholesterol based " doesn't mean 100% cholesterol.

>

> All gallstones contain variable amounts of bile pigments!

> Some stones contain proteins!

>

> Even stone that contain 95% or 70% cholesterol is

still " Cholesterol based "

> Other 5% or 30% can be bile pigments & proteins.

>

>

> No gallstone is 100% cholesterol.

>

> Your stone must contain protein (mucoprotein), on order to be as

hard as it is.

>

> Only protein or calcium carbonate can be as hard.

>

>

> Mucoprotein DEFINITION:

> A covalently linked conjugate of protein and polysaccharide, the

latter

> containing many hexosamine residues and constituting approximately

4 to 30

> percent of the weight of the compound; mucoproteins occur mainly in

mucous

> secretions. (Mucoprotein is secreted by the inner lining of the

gallbladder,

> also known as the epithelium)

>

>

> Stones containing proteins are almost only formed inside

gallbladder!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> There is at least a little bit of bilirubin (yellow/red/brown) or

Biliverdin

> (green/blue/black)

>

> Those 7 colors: white, yellow/red/brown, green/blue/black can

produce any other

> color.

>

>

> Common Bile Pigments:

>

> Bilirubin (linear tetrapyrrole)

> color: yellow/red/brown.

> Source: liver

>

>

> Biliverdin (linear tetrapyrrole)

> color: green/blue/black

> Source: oxidation of bilirubin

>

>

> References:

> =============

>

http://www.medbroadcast.com/health_topics/health_conditions/gallstones

/index

> .shtml

>

> " Gallstones are classified as cholesterol stones, calcium

bilirubinate stones

> (pigment stones) and calcium carbonate stones, which are extremely

rare.

> Pure stones, however, are almost never found.

> All gallstones contain variable amounts of bile pigments,

cholesterol, calcium

> carbonate, and apatite, and their core usually consists of bile

pigments or

> mucoprotein, which is secreted by the inner lining of the

gallbladder, also

> known as the epithelium. "

>

>

> CHOLESTEROL STONES

>

http://www.medbroadcast.com/health_topics/health_conditions/gallstones

/index

> .shtml

> The basis of the common cholesterol stone appears to be a

precipitation of

> cholesterol that cannot be absorbed into solution. Cholesterol,

which is

> insoluble in water, is carried in solution in the bile. People with

cholesterol

> stones sometimes secrete a bile that is saturated or supersaturated

with

> cholesterol. The bile secreted in the liver is abnormal in patients

with

> cholesterol stones. These patients have a reduced bile salt pool

and it seems

> that the defect is a lack of bile salts rather than excessive

cholesterol.

> Gallstones are also a common accompaniment of cirrhosis, as there

is often a

> reduction in the bile salt pool and a decrease in the bile salt

content of the

> bile.

>

> The gallbladder really plays a secondary part in allowing the

cholesterol

> crystals to form a stone. Stones can form in the bile ducts in

people who have

> had their gallbladders removed (cholecystectomy), which proves that

the

> gallbladder is not essential for stone production, however, this

situation is

> really quite rare. There may also be dietary and genetic factors in

cholesterol

> stone formation, as cholesterol stones are far more common in

European and

> Western cultures, than in Oriental groups.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> PIGMENT STONES

> Pigment stones seem to beget stones. For instance, a gallbladder

that has a

> stone can become obstructed and cause inflammation, which in turn

causes more

> gallstones. Pigment stones consist of variable quantities of

cholesterol,

> calcium bilirubinate, and calcium carbonate and produce a

predominantly brown

> colour. These mixed stones are typically found in groups multiple,

and form

> around organisms and inflammatory debris.

>

>

>

> AHA Scientific Position

> http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4488

> Cholesterol is a soft, waxy substance found among the lipids (fats)

in the

> bloodstream and in all your body's cells.

>

>

>

> What is cholesterol?

> http://archives.obs-us.com/obs/english/books/pg/pg173.htm

> Cholesterol is a pearly-white, waxy substance found in animal fats

and oils. It

> is found throughout the body but is produced primarily by the liver.

> Cholesterol circulates in the blood, commonly in association with

other

> saturated and unsaturated fats, and can be either beneficial or

harmful. For

> instance, it is necessary for making cell membranes and many

important

> hormones. However, cholesterol may also form gallstones and harmful

deposits in

> blood vessels.

>

>

> http://www.gicare.com/pated/edtot24.htm

> Over the years, a hardened, waxy substance called cholesterol

plaque builds up

> on the artery walls, and reduces or blocks blood flow. Organs

supplied by these

> arteries then become damaged because they cannot get the oxygen and

nutrients

> they need. For example, when blood flow to the brain is blocked, a

stroke

> occurs. When plaque completely blocks a coronary artery, a heart

attack takes

> place.

>

>

>

>

> http://www.prevention.com/cda/finder/1,1345,1198,00.html

> " In addition to helping your bones, calcium has a good effect on

bile acid

> metabolism, " explains Dr. Hofmann. " What has been found is that

large doses of

> oral calcium form calcium phosphate in the gut. " This sets off a

chain of

> chemical events that eventually lowers the amount of cholesterol in

the

> gallbladder, thus reducing the possibility that gallstones will

form, he

> explains.

>

> It also seems to explain why a study of 872 Dutchmen between the

ages of 40 and

> 59 found that the more calcium the men consumed over a 25-year

period, the

> fewer gallstones they were likely to have.

>

> In fact, one study in the Netherlands revealed that men who had

more than 1,442

> milligrams of calcium in their diets every day had a 50 percent

lower

> prevalence of gallstones.

>

> " Since most individuals have stopped drinking much milk by the time

they're 45

> years old, it makes good sense to take calcium supplements, " says

Dr. Hofmann.

> Nonetheless, the view that large doses of supplemental calcium can

prevent

> gallstones has not yet been tested experimentally. Normal doses of

calcium do

> not increase the risk of kidney stones, however, and are likely to

be good for

> both bones and bile. Studies are needed to prove this point as well

as to prove

> that there are no important risks associated with long-term use of

oral calcium

> supplements, says Dr. Hofman.

>

> Experts who recommend calcium to help prevent gallstones suggest

aiming for the

> Daily Value, which is 1,000 milligrams. But before you race out to

the

> drugstore, Dr. Pitt suggests that you take a moment to check with

your

> physician, especially if you're a woman.

>

> " Calcium may have something to do with the origin of most of the

gallstones in

> this country, " says Dr. Pitt. " It's at the center of almost every

stone we

> find. And in our animal studies, diets with high calcium seem to

enhance the

> formation of pigment stones, " the stones made of bilirubin.

>

> And keep in mind all of the hormonal factors that affect women,

says Dr. Pitt.

> It may turn out that calcium prevents gallstones in men but actually

> contributes to their formation in women.