Re: Sharing our own experience

[Guest guest]

Great! You have just described what is know as " seeding " cancer cells.

Physicians know what this means and many on this list have described it from

time to time. The interesting thing is they go in an biopsy an area they

intend to remove anyway but the time period between the biopsy and removal of

whatever they are looking at provides plenty of time for seeding. Does the

removal of an entire tumor and then doing a biopsy obviate that? Perhaps a

practitioner can help us on that question., BTW, I have been doing the other

part of your e-mail the " incorrect? " way because I have punctured boils and such

for most of my life and that of our children. However I have always waited

until it looked like it was well along its path and maybe I've just been lucky.

Joe C.

From: Peggy

Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 9:13 AM

Subject: [ ] Sharing our own experience

> I've been thinking alot... and that can be dangerous! ... here's a

> scenario and relate this to your cancer:

>

>

>

> Say you have an orange and in the middle of the orange is an

> ordinary green pea:... (the orange is your body and the pea is a

> tumor)

>

> Say that pea (tumor) has been in that orange (your body) for 3

> years or so,

>

> Say the doctor gets a scan or xray done on the orange (your body),

>

> Say the doctor tells you the scan is totally clear, except for

> that one pea (tumor) ,

>

> Say he says to you, " we'll do a biopsy and if it is cancer, we'll

> operate and remove the pea (tumor) and shoot you with some radiation

> and chemo to make sure we get it all " ,

>

> Say you go back to the doctor after your chemo and radiation and

> they do a scan and now it is somewhere else in your body, like in my

> mother's case, it was only in her kidney and after chemo it's now by

> her lungs, and like my sister, where it was just a one centimeter

> tumor on the head of her pancreas and after the whipple operation

> she was cancer free, and now it's in her liver .... I believe the

> big mistake here is having the biopsy done.

>

>

>

> Now, question yourself and ask, " why would it be somewhere else in

> your body now " ?

>

> Could it be because when you do a biopsy (cutting into the pea in

> the orange or even just a needle biopsy) that one lousy cell could

> escape from that pea and travel somewhere else in your body?..

> whereas, if you just left the damn pea alone, since it had been

> there 3 years or so already, you'd be better off.

>

> And it could take years to show up again in your body or it could

> show up right away, just because of the biopsy.

>

> Now wouldn't you suppose that you should forget about doing a biopsy

> and just remove the pea (tumor) anyway, cancerous or not.

>

>

> THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I THINK!

Just another thought,... I saw on the Dr. Oz show how to deal with a

pimple.. he said you should NEVER poke it with a pin as you will

spread it and damage the tissue below... you should gently slice the

top open... I think this relates to tumors as well, but only if they

are visible on your skin... that's why a drawing out salve, like black

salve works because it DRAWS it out naturally, or if you take the

tablets internally, it'll get to the root of the cancer.

>

[Guest guest]

If doctors know this as seeding why do they do biopsies??!!

On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:01 AM, JoeCastron wrote:

> Great! You have just described what is know as " seeding " cancer

> cells. Physicians know what this means and many on this list have

> described it from time to time. The interesting thing is they go in

> an biopsy an area they intend to remove anyway but the time period

> between the biopsy and removal of whatever they are looking at

> provides plenty of time for seeding. Does the removal of an entire

> tumor and then doing a biopsy obviate that? Perhaps a practitioner

> can help us on that question., BTW, I have been doing the other part

> of your e-mail the " incorrect? " way because I have punctured boils

> and such for most of my life and that of our children. However I

> have always waited until it looked like it was well along its path

> and maybe I've just been lucky.

>

> Joe C.

>

> From: Peggy

> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 9:13 AM

>

> Subject: [ ] Sharing our own experience

>

> > I've been thinking alot... and that can be dangerous! ... here's a

> > scenario and relate this to your cancer:

> >

> >

> >

> > Say you have an orange and in the middle of the orange is an

> > ordinary green pea:... (the orange is your body and the pea is a

> > tumor)

> >

> > Say that pea (tumor) has been in that orange (your body) for 3

> > years or so,

> >

> > Say the doctor gets a scan or xray done on the orange (your body),

> >

> > Say the doctor tells you the scan is totally clear, except for

> > that one pea (tumor) ,

> >

> > Say he says to you, " we'll do a biopsy and if it is cancer, we'll

> > operate and remove the pea (tumor) and shoot you with some radiation

> > and chemo to make sure we get it all " ,

> >

> > Say you go back to the doctor after your chemo and radiation and

> > they do a scan and now it is somewhere else in your body, like in my

> > mother's case, it was only in her kidney and after chemo it's now by

> > her lungs, and like my sister, where it was just a one centimeter

> > tumor on the head of her pancreas and after the whipple operation

> > she was cancer free, and now it's in her liver .... I believe the

> > big mistake here is having the biopsy done.

> >

> >

> >

> > Now, question yourself and ask, " why would it be somewhere else in

> > your body now " ?

> >

> > Could it be because when you do a biopsy (cutting into the pea in

> > the orange or even just a needle biopsy) that one lousy cell could

> > escape from that pea and travel somewhere else in your body?..

> > whereas, if you just left the damn pea alone, since it had been

> > there 3 years or so already, you'd be better off.

> >

> > And it could take years to show up again in your body or it could

> > show up right away, just because of the biopsy.

> >

> > Now wouldn't you suppose that you should forget about doing a biopsy

> > and just remove the pea (tumor) anyway, cancerous or not.

> >

> >

> > THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I THINK!

>

> Just another thought,... I saw on the Dr. Oz show how to deal with a

> pimple.. he said you should NEVER poke it with a pin as you will

> spread it and damage the tissue below... you should gently slice the

> top open... I think this relates to tumors as well, but only if they

> are visible on your skin... that's why a drawing out salve, like black

> salve works because it DRAWS it out naturally, or if you take the

> tablets internally, it'll get to the root of the cancer.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm on a roll now.. I am beginning to think of my body as a fertile

garden that if my immune system is not in tip top shape things can go

bad...so what about taking 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide to keep

the pests away???

On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:01 AM, JoeCastron wrote:

> Great! You have just described what is know as " seeding " cancer

> cells. Physicians know what this means and many on this list have

> described it from time to time. The interesting thing is they go in

> an biopsy an area they intend to remove anyway but the time period

> between the biopsy and removal of whatever they are looking at

> provides plenty of time for seeding. Does the removal of an entire

> tumor and then doing a biopsy obviate that? Perhaps a practitioner

> can help us on that question., BTW, I have been doing the other part

> of your e-mail the " incorrect? " way because I have punctured boils

> and such for most of my life and that of our children. However I

> have always waited until it looked like it was well along its path

> and maybe I've just been lucky.

>

> Joe C.

>

> From: Peggy

> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 9:13 AM

>

> Subject: [ ] Sharing our own experience

>

> > I've been thinking alot... and that can be dangerous! ... here's a

> > scenario and relate this to your cancer:

> >

> >

> >

> > Say you have an orange and in the middle of the orange is an

> > ordinary green pea:... (the orange is your body and the pea is a

> > tumor)

> >

> > Say that pea (tumor) has been in that orange (your body) for 3

> > years or so,

> >

> > Say the doctor gets a scan or xray done on the orange (your body),

> >

> > Say the doctor tells you the scan is totally clear, except for

> > that one pea (tumor) ,

> >

> > Say he says to you, " we'll do a biopsy and if it is cancer, we'll

> > operate and remove the pea (tumor) and shoot you with some radiation

> > and chemo to make sure we get it all " ,

> >

> > Say you go back to the doctor after your chemo and radiation and

> > they do a scan and now it is somewhere else in your body, like in my

> > mother's case, it was only in her kidney and after chemo it's now by

> > her lungs, and like my sister, where it was just a one centimeter

> > tumor on the head of her pancreas and after the whipple operation

> > she was cancer free, and now it's in her liver .... I believe the

> > big mistake here is having the biopsy done.

> >

> >

> >

> > Now, question yourself and ask, " why would it be somewhere else in

> > your body now " ?

> >

> > Could it be because when you do a biopsy (cutting into the pea in

> > the orange or even just a needle biopsy) that one lousy cell could

> > escape from that pea and travel somewhere else in your body?..

> > whereas, if you just left the damn pea alone, since it had been

> > there 3 years or so already, you'd be better off.

> >

> > And it could take years to show up again in your body or it could

> > show up right away, just because of the biopsy.

> >

> > Now wouldn't you suppose that you should forget about doing a biopsy

> > and just remove the pea (tumor) anyway, cancerous or not.

> >

> >

> > THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I THINK!

>

> Just another thought,... I saw on the Dr. Oz show how to deal with a

> pimple.. he said you should NEVER poke it with a pin as you will

> spread it and damage the tissue below... you should gently slice the

> top open... I think this relates to tumors as well, but only if they

> are visible on your skin... that's why a drawing out salve, like black

> salve works because it DRAWS it out naturally, or if you take the

> tablets internally, it'll get to the root of the cancer.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I, too, appreciate reading from a varied field of experiences. I am naturally

selective to listening a little closer when the post rings true to me or sets

well with me. It's especially interesting when I've never heard of something

before.

Because I censure plenty on my own, I just want to encourage those who continue

to share their experiences with whatever has worked and what hasn't. I am

intrigued and interested, but will always use my own faculties to censure and

prefer it over other members trying to censure each other.

In this way, if doing spiritual work or emotional work helped, I'd like to hear

about it.

I'm especially appreciative of anyone who is in the medical field or working

with patients in giving their time and observations to this forum.

Thanks,

Deborah

>

> Just to add a another thought here, I think it would be great for responses to

be able to be given with gentle acceptance and know the right answers will ring

true in the right moment for the right person. It seems to be to be a given that

this is a basically alternative forum.

>

> To me, it seems we can and rightly should contribute from our own experience.

If some have a lot of different paths to share at once, great. If someone else

has more expertise in one or two areas, also great.

>

> What I am noticing is that new members may not be going through old emails

archived to find solutions to their questions.

>

> I honor people trying to share back from their own experiences little

lifelines to new people who are not going to look back over the whole forum for

old responses. Actually, it is a tribute to anyone who takes the time to answer

all the new people and I admire everyone for participating this way.

>

> Acceptance of many paths, many roads and the search for the best alternatives

possible seems to be the theme and a great one. So thanks to everyone who

contributes here.

>

[Guest guest]

First let me apologize for leaving a letter off at the end of a couple of words.

My fingers are faster than my eyes and spell check doesn't pick up these

mistakes.

Why do physicians do this?

Check this out. When my Urologist wanted to do a 'Selective biopsy' where they

do a mapping of my bladder (numerous locations) I resisted and told him I did

not want to risk the seeding " . He said, " I understand but I take extra

precautions by using a lot of water " . I still did not want it.

When undergoing a recent Colonoscopy, my last by the way, I made the admitting

nurse put down that I did not want any biopsy of any 'suspicious' area but if

they found a polyp they could remove it and then biopsy that. She then

admitted she had never heard of seeding and promised to look it up.

I had to also explain my reasons to both the surgeon and anesthetist and neither

gave me an argument. They know! I'll leave your question for you to guess the

answer because I make enough comments on the motives of the Allopathic system.

Joe C.

From: Peggy

Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 10:08 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Sharing our own experience

If doctors know this as seeding why do they do biopsies??!!

On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:01 AM, JoeCastron wrote:

> Great! You have just described what is know as " seeding " cancer

> cells. Physicians know what this means and many on this list have

> described it from time to time. The interesting thing is they go in

> an biopsy an area they intend to remove anyway but the time period

> between the biopsy and removal of whatever they are looking at

> provides plenty of time for seeding. Does the removal of an entire

> tumor and then doing a biopsy obviate that? Perhaps a practitioner

> can help us on that question., BTW, I have been doing the other part

> of your e-mail the " incorrect? " way because I have punctured boils

> and such for most of my life and that of our children. However I

> have always waited until it looked like it was well along its path

> and maybe I've just been lucky.

>

> Joe C.

>

> From: Peggy

> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 9:13 AM

>

> Subject: [ ] Sharing our own experience

>

> > I've been thinking alot... and that can be dangerous! ... here's a

> > scenario and relate this to your cancer:

> >

> >

> >

> > Say you have an orange and in the middle of the orange is an

> > ordinary green pea:... (the orange is your body and the pea is a

> > tumor)

> >

> > Say that pea (tumor) has been in that orange (your body) for 3

> > years or so,

> >

> > Say the doctor gets a scan or xray done on the orange (your body),

> >

> > Say the doctor tells you the scan is totally clear, except for

> > that one pea (tumor) ,

> >

> > Say he says to you, " we'll do a biopsy and if it is cancer, we'll

> > operate and remove the pea (tumor) and shoot you with some radiation

> > and chemo to make sure we get it all " ,

> >

> > Say you go back to the doctor after your chemo and radiation and

> > they do a scan and now it is somewhere else in your body, like in my

> > mother's case, it was only in her kidney and after chemo it's now by

> > her lungs, and like my sister, where it was just a one centimeter

> > tumor on the head of her pancreas and after the whipple operation

> > she was cancer free, and now it's in her liver .... I believe the

> > big mistake here is having the biopsy done.

> >

> >

> >

> > Now, question yourself and ask, " why would it be somewhere else in

> > your body now " ?

> >

> > Could it be because when you do a biopsy (cutting into the pea in

> > the orange or even just a needle biopsy) that one lousy cell could

> > escape from that pea and travel somewhere else in your body?..

> > whereas, if you just left the damn pea alone, since it had been

> > there 3 years or so already, you'd be better off.

> >

> > And it could take years to show up again in your body or it could

> > show up right away, just because of the biopsy.

> >

> > Now wouldn't you suppose that you should forget about doing a biopsy

> > and just remove the pea (tumor) anyway, cancerous or not.

> >

> >

> > THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I THINK!

>

> Just another thought,... I saw on the Dr. Oz show how to deal with a

> pimple.. he said you should NEVER poke it with a pin as you will

> spread it and damage the tissue below... you should gently slice the

> top open... I think this relates to tumors as well, but only if they

> are visible on your skin... that's why a drawing out salve, like black

> salve works because it DRAWS it out naturally, or if you take the

> tablets internally, it'll get to the root of the cancer.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know it's all about: " follow the money trail " .. but why aren't

patients putting up a fight?.. why do most people blindly believe what

their doctor say?... I've always said God gave you a brain to think

for yourself, do your own research and with the internet it's easy...

but when I've talked to my sister's doctor, I always get that

reply ,.. " well you can't believe everything that's on the

internet " .....well, there are a lot of research papers you can look

at.. and most doctors are so busy that they can't even keep up with

the latest developments.

On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:55 AM, JoeCastron wrote:

> First let me apologize for leaving a letter off at the end of a

> couple of words. My fingers are faster than my eyes and spell check

> doesn't pick up these mistakes.

>

> Why do physicians do this?

>

> Check this out. When my Urologist wanted to do a 'Selective biopsy'

> where they do a mapping of my bladder (numerous locations) I

> resisted and told him I did not want to risk the seeding " . He said,

> " I understand but I take extra precautions by using a lot of water " .

> I still did not want it.

> When undergoing a recent Colonoscopy, my last by the way, I made the

> admitting nurse put down that I did not want any biopsy of any

> 'suspicious' area but if they found a polyp they could remove it and

> then biopsy that. She then admitted she had never heard of seeding

> and promised to look it up.

> I had to also explain my reasons to both the surgeon and anesthetist

> and neither gave me an argument. They know! I'll leave your question

> for you to guess the answer because I make enough comments on the

> motives of the Allopathic system.

>

> Joe C.

[Guest guest]

My sister and my mom are both at the " Cancer Treatment Centers of

America " in Tulsa... their naturopath is very knowledgeable about

alternatives but their doctor is not open to anything I bring up.. one

day I got so mad that I called the President there at that Center and

I was shocked as he did call me back. I told him I was very

disappointed because in their ads they seem like they are open to

alternatives but in reality they are not... I told him he should speak

with the naturopath as he knows more than the doctor about cancer and

had some good ideas for my sister's pancreatic cancer... I told him

they all knew as well as I, that 90% of the time, chemo and radiation

do nothing for pancreatic cancer and I was frustrated that the doctor

wasn't open to anything alternative... and sure enough her cancer came

back in the liver.. I told the President that they had the potential

to be an amazing facility if they were just more open.. and he did

tell me he would speak with the naturopath.. last I heard he did speak

with him and hopefully some changes will be made.

On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:55 AM, JoeCastron wrote:

> First let me apologize for leaving a letter off at the end of a

> couple of words. My fingers are faster than my eyes and spell check

> doesn't pick up these mistakes.

>

> Why do physicians do this?

>

> Check this out. When my Urologist wanted to do a 'Selective biopsy'

> where they do a mapping of my bladder (numerous locations) I

> resisted and told him I did not want to risk the seeding " . He said,

> " I understand but I take extra precautions by using a lot of water " .

> I still did not want it.

> When undergoing a recent Colonoscopy, my last by the way, I made the

> admitting nurse put down that I did not want any biopsy of any

> 'suspicious' area but if they found a polyp they could remove it and

> then biopsy that. She then admitted she had never heard of seeding

> and promised to look it up.

> I had to also explain my reasons to both the surgeon and anesthetist

> and neither gave me an argument. They know! I'll leave your question

> for you to guess the answer because I make enough comments on the

> motives of the Allopathic system.

>

> Joe C.

>

> From: Peggy

> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 10:08 AM

>

> Subject: Re: [ ] Sharing our own experience

>

> If doctors know this as seeding why do they do biopsies??!!

>

> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:01 AM, JoeCastron wrote:

>

> > Great! You have just described what is know as " seeding " cancer

> > cells. Physicians know what this means and many on this list have

> > described it from time to time. The interesting thing is they go in

> > an biopsy an area they intend to remove anyway but the time period

> > between the biopsy and removal of whatever they are looking at

> > provides plenty of time for seeding. Does the removal of an entire

> > tumor and then doing a biopsy obviate that? Perhaps a practitioner

> > can help us on that question., BTW, I have been doing the other part

> > of your e-mail the " incorrect? " way because I have punctured boils

> > and such for most of my life and that of our children. However I

> > have always waited until it looked like it was well along its path

> > and maybe I've just been lucky.

> >

> > Joe C.

> >

> > From: Peggy

> > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 9:13 AM

> >

> > Subject: [ ] Sharing our own experience

> >

> > > I've been thinking alot... and that can be dangerous! ... here's a

> > > scenario and relate this to your cancer:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Say you have an orange and in the middle of the orange is an

> > > ordinary green pea:... (the orange is your body and the pea is a

> > > tumor)

> > >

> > > Say that pea (tumor) has been in that orange (your body) for 3

> > > years or so,

> > >

> > > Say the doctor gets a scan or xray done on the orange (your body),

> > >

> > > Say the doctor tells you the scan is totally clear, except for

> > > that one pea (tumor) ,

> > >

> > > Say he says to you, " we'll do a biopsy and if it is cancer, we'll

> > > operate and remove the pea (tumor) and shoot you with some

> radiation

> > > and chemo to make sure we get it all " ,

> > >

> > > Say you go back to the doctor after your chemo and radiation and

> > > they do a scan and now it is somewhere else in your body, like

> in my

> > > mother's case, it was only in her kidney and after chemo it's

> now by

> > > her lungs, and like my sister, where it was just a one centimeter

> > > tumor on the head of her pancreas and after the whipple operation

> > > she was cancer free, and now it's in her liver .... I believe the

> > > big mistake here is having the biopsy done.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Now, question yourself and ask, " why would it be somewhere else in

> > > your body now " ?

> > >

> > > Could it be because when you do a biopsy (cutting into the pea in

> > > the orange or even just a needle biopsy) that one lousy cell could

> > > escape from that pea and travel somewhere else in your body?..

> > > whereas, if you just left the damn pea alone, since it had been

> > > there 3 years or so already, you'd be better off.

> > >

> > > And it could take years to show up again in your body or it could

> > > show up right away, just because of the biopsy.

> > >

> > > Now wouldn't you suppose that you should forget about doing a

> biopsy

> > > and just remove the pea (tumor) anyway, cancerous or not.

> > >

> > >

> > > THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I THINK!

> >

> > Just another thought,... I saw on the Dr. Oz show how to deal with a

> > pimple.. he said you should NEVER poke it with a pin as you will

> > spread it and damage the tissue below... you should gently slice the

> > top open... I think this relates to tumors as well, but only if they

> > are visible on your skin... that's why a drawing out salve, like

> black

> > salve works because it DRAWS it out naturally, or if you take the

> > tablets internally, it'll get to the root of the cancer.

> > >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> If doctors know this as seeding why do they do biopsies??!!

*****************

Peggy,

That's a great question. Why do they? Well, I think they do it because that's

what they've been taught. If they do a biopsy, and it isn't cancer, then

everything is okay. If it is cancer, the patient will probably want it taken

out anyway.

In some cases, a biopsy can end up saving a patient money because it eliminates

the need of a more expensive surgery. We know this logic may be flawed, but

generally speaking, I would assume this is a thought process that doctors use.

How big of a problem is seeding? I don't really know. I know that my ND

suggests using modified citrus pectin when having any surgery that might involve

cancer. Supposedly, it keeps stray cancer cells from taking up residence

anywhere else.

ar

[Guest guest]

Peggy, you are making the mistake many of us make and blame the people. We are

the unusual, not the norm and the masses have been taught from birth about the

sanctity of the Allopathic system. The system also controls the media and how?

Through advertising dollars. Why would someone look for research papers when

they trust the system? Even when side effects are discussed, the system is so

well insulated they are able to convince people of the benefit to risk feature

of the drug never thinking the 'what-if' they are the one " rare " instance of

getting the effect.

I drive my doctor crazy when he says, " the side-effect is rare " with, by saying,

but it is 100% for the poor soul that gets it.

No, the fault isn't with The Masses, it is with corruption and our eagerness to

believe the 'authorities', the scientists, the man in the white coat. Today

people are feverishly trying to survive and when illness strikes, they run to

the people that promise them and whom the media tells them will save them.

People do put up a fight. You and me and many on this list.............but not

everyone.

Let me ask you regarding the " brain God gave you " .......................when was

the last time you researched the dangers of acid rain? Get the point?

You and the rest of us are 'tuned' into natural ways but if one isn't, why would

they question God? The God in the White Coat?

Joe C.

From: Peggy

Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:02 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Sharing our own experience

I know it's all about: " follow the money trail " .. but why aren't

patients putting up a fight?.. why do most people blindly believe what

their doctor say?... I've always said God gave you a brain to think

for yourself, do your own research and with the internet it's easy...

but when I've talked to my sister's doctor, I always get that

reply ,.. " well you can't believe everything that's on the

internet " .....well, there are a lot of research papers you can look

at.. and most doctors are so busy that they can't even keep up with

the latest developments.

On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:55 AM, JoeCastron wrote:

> First let me apologize for leaving a letter off at the end of a

> couple of words. My fingers are faster than my eyes and spell check

> doesn't pick up these mistakes.

>

> Why do physicians do this?

>

> Check this out. When my Urologist wanted to do a 'Selective biopsy'

> where they do a mapping of my bladder (numerous locations) I

> resisted and told him I did not want to risk the seeding " . He said,

> " I understand but I take extra precautions by using a lot of water " .

> I still did not want it.

> When undergoing a recent Colonoscopy, my last by the way, I made the

> admitting nurse put down that I did not want any biopsy of any

> 'suspicious' area but if they found a polyp they could remove it and

> then biopsy that. She then admitted she had never heard of seeding

> and promised to look it up.

> I had to also explain my reasons to both the surgeon and anesthetist

> and neither gave me an argument. They know! I'll leave your question

> for you to guess the answer because I make enough comments on the

> motives of the Allopathic system.

>

> Joe C.

[Guest guest]

Understand that Cancer Centers of America are still Allopathic Institutions and

subject to the controls and penalties for not adhering to them. They may add a

measure of Complimentary protocols but before the day is over, The 'Standard of

Care' must be adhered to or they face not just condemnation by their own, but

the potential of legal action against them. I suspect that what will happen is

the Physician will be 'spoken' to but probably just warned to make people more

satisfied and for the physician to be more sympathetic appearing.

Joe C.

From: Peggy

Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:12 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Sharing our own experience

My sister and my mom are both at the " Cancer Treatment Centers of

America " in Tulsa... their naturopath is very knowledgeable about

alternatives but their doctor is not open to anything I bring up.. one

day I got so mad that I called the President there at that Center and

I was shocked as he did call me back. I told him I was very

disappointed because in their ads they seem like they are open to

alternatives but in reality they are not... I told him he should speak

with the naturopath as he knows more than the doctor about cancer and

had some good ideas for my sister's pancreatic cancer... I told him

they all knew as well as I, that 90% of the time, chemo and radiation

do nothing for pancreatic cancer and I was frustrated that the doctor

wasn't open to anything alternative... and sure enough her cancer came

back in the liver.. I told the President that they had the potential

to be an amazing facility if they were just more open.. and he did

tell me he would speak with the naturopath.. last I heard he did speak

with him and hopefully some changes will be made.

On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:55 AM, JoeCastron wrote:

> First let me apologize for leaving a letter off at the end of a

> couple of words. My fingers are faster than my eyes and spell check

> doesn't pick up these mistakes.

>

> Why do physicians do this?

>

> Check this out. When my Urologist wanted to do a 'Selective biopsy'

> where they do a mapping of my bladder (numerous locations) I

> resisted and told him I did not want to risk the seeding " . He said,

> " I understand but I take extra precautions by using a lot of water " .

> I still did not want it.

> When undergoing a recent Colonoscopy, my last by the way, I made the

> admitting nurse put down that I did not want any biopsy of any

> 'suspicious' area but if they found a polyp they could remove it and

> then biopsy that. She then admitted she had never heard of seeding

> and promised to look it up.

> I had to also explain my reasons to both the surgeon and anesthetist

> and neither gave me an argument. They know! I'll leave your question

> for you to guess the answer because I make enough comments on the

> motives of the Allopathic system.

>

> Joe C.

>

> From: Peggy

> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 10:08 AM

>

> Subject: Re: [ ] Sharing our own experience

>

> If doctors know this as seeding why do they do biopsies??!!

>

> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:01 AM, JoeCastron wrote:

>

> > Great! You have just described what is know as " seeding " cancer

> > cells. Physicians know what this means and many on this list have

> > described it from time to time. The interesting thing is they go in

> > an biopsy an area they intend to remove anyway but the time period

> > between the biopsy and removal of whatever they are looking at

> > provides plenty of time for seeding. Does the removal of an entire

> > tumor and then doing a biopsy obviate that? Perhaps a practitioner

> > can help us on that question., BTW, I have been doing the other part

> > of your e-mail the " incorrect? " way because I have punctured boils

> > and such for most of my life and that of our children. However I

> > have always waited until it looked like it was well along its path

> > and maybe I've just been lucky.

> >

> > Joe C.

> >

> > From: Peggy

> > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 9:13 AM

> >

> > Subject: [ ] Sharing our own experience

> >

> > > I've been thinking alot... and that can be dangerous! ... here's a

> > > scenario and relate this to your cancer:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Say you have an orange and in the middle of the orange is an

> > > ordinary green pea:... (the orange is your body and the pea is a

> > > tumor)

> > >

> > > Say that pea (tumor) has been in that orange (your body) for 3

> > > years or so,

> > >

> > > Say the doctor gets a scan or xray done on the orange (your body),

> > >

> > > Say the doctor tells you the scan is totally clear, except for

> > > that one pea (tumor) ,

> > >

> > > Say he says to you, " we'll do a biopsy and if it is cancer, we'll

> > > operate and remove the pea (tumor) and shoot you with some

> radiation

> > > and chemo to make sure we get it all " ,

> > >

> > > Say you go back to the doctor after your chemo and radiation and

> > > they do a scan and now it is somewhere else in your body, like

> in my

> > > mother's case, it was only in her kidney and after chemo it's

> now by

> > > her lungs, and like my sister, where it was just a one centimeter

> > > tumor on the head of her pancreas and after the whipple operation

> > > she was cancer free, and now it's in her liver .... I believe the

> > > big mistake here is having the biopsy done.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Now, question yourself and ask, " why would it be somewhere else in

> > > your body now " ?

> > >

> > > Could it be because when you do a biopsy (cutting into the pea in

> > > the orange or even just a needle biopsy) that one lousy cell could

> > > escape from that pea and travel somewhere else in your body?..

> > > whereas, if you just left the damn pea alone, since it had been

> > > there 3 years or so already, you'd be better off.

> > >

> > > And it could take years to show up again in your body or it could

> > > show up right away, just because of the biopsy.

> > >

> > > Now wouldn't you suppose that you should forget about doing a

> biopsy

> > > and just remove the pea (tumor) anyway, cancerous or not.

> > >

> > >

> > > THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I THINK!

> >

> > Just another thought,... I saw on the Dr. Oz show how to deal with a

> > pimple.. he said you should NEVER poke it with a pin as you will

> > spread it and damage the tissue below... you should gently slice the

> > top open... I think this relates to tumors as well, but only if they

> > are visible on your skin... that's why a drawing out salve, like

> black

> > salve works because it DRAWS it out naturally, or if you take the

> > tablets internally, it'll get to the root of the cancer.

> > >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

The FDA has certain protocols for cancer that must be followed by MDs or

they can lose their license. Biopsies are part of that protocol. We like to

think that doctors get to " treat " however they want, but this is not the

case. When MDs choose to step-out-of-the-box by offering natural therapies

or treatments they run the very real risk of being disciplined or even

losing their license. When this happens they are made an example of by the

suggestion of quackery, their reputation is attacked and questioned by the

planting of questionable practices and they usually end up completely

ruined, professionally. This is all done on purpose so that other MDs will

" think " before they decide to offer natural therapies.

We would do well to remember that conventional medicine does not believe

that they can cure cancer. There is legal liability even for them when they

use the word " cure. "

Be Well

Dr.L

[ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

> If doctors know this as seeding why do they do biopsies??!!

[Guest guest]

When I first discovered a lump on my neck, I went to our family doctor. She of

course had to refer me on down the line after conducting her group of tests, so

I hadn't seen her anymore after my cancer was confirmed. About six months later

I took one of my kids to see her and she asked if I had started treatment, to

which I replied, no, and kind of briefly explained that I was trying to eat

healthy and take supplements, etc. She started talking to me in kind of a

hushed tone and told me that her sister had been diagnosed with some type of

cancer years ago and she had done the same thing, taken a nutritional route, and

she was doing great.

It was a strange conversation because I wanted to know more but I could tell

that she couldn't really go all into it so I just accepted what she did tell me.

I took that to mean that she did support whatever I had chosen but she wasn't at

liberty to discuss it in a professional manner or setting.

>

> > If doctors know this as seeding why do they do biopsies??!!

>

[Guest guest]

It seems thats been the experience of a lot of people when they go to these

centers that advertise alternative or complementary. It's just to grab you and

get you in the doors, because they know once you're there, its quite powerful

and difficult for you to leave. For some of them, alternative is maybe giving

you a diet plan and a couple vitamin c pills. they don't really truly embrace

alternative because it would cut into the meat of their business. The people

with tiny skin cancer sores would just get some salve and be done in a couple

weeks, instead of going through their standard program that turns them into

patients for life.

> >

> > > Great! You have just described what is know as " seeding " cancer

> > > cells. Physicians know what this means and many on this list have

> > > described it from time to time. The interesting thing is they go in

> > > an biopsy an area they intend to remove anyway but the time period

> > > between the biopsy and removal of whatever they are looking at

> > > provides plenty of time for seeding. Does the removal of an entire

> > > tumor and then doing a biopsy obviate that? Perhaps a practitioner

> > > can help us on that question., BTW, I have been doing the other part

> > > of your e-mail the " incorrect? " way because I have punctured boils

> > > and such for most of my life and that of our children. However I

> > > have always waited until it looked like it was well along its path

> > > and maybe I've just been lucky.

> > >

> > > Joe C.

> > >

> > > From: Peggy

> > > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 9:13 AM

> > >

> > > Subject: [ ] Sharing our own experience

> > >

> > > > I've been thinking alot... and that can be dangerous! ... here's a

> > > > scenario and relate this to your cancer:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Say you have an orange and in the middle of the orange is an

> > > > ordinary green pea:... (the orange is your body and the pea is a

> > > > tumor)

> > > >

> > > > Say that pea (tumor) has been in that orange (your body) for 3

> > > > years or so,

> > > >

> > > > Say the doctor gets a scan or xray done on the orange (your body),

> > > >

> > > > Say the doctor tells you the scan is totally clear, except for

> > > > that one pea (tumor) ,

> > > >

> > > > Say he says to you, " we'll do a biopsy and if it is cancer, we'll

> > > > operate and remove the pea (tumor) and shoot you with some

> > radiation

> > > > and chemo to make sure we get it all " ,

> > > >

> > > > Say you go back to the doctor after your chemo and radiation and

> > > > they do a scan and now it is somewhere else in your body, like

> > in my

> > > > mother's case, it was only in her kidney and after chemo it's

> > now by

> > > > her lungs, and like my sister, where it was just a one centimeter

> > > > tumor on the head of her pancreas and after the whipple operation

> > > > she was cancer free, and now it's in her liver .... I believe the

> > > > big mistake here is having the biopsy done.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Now, question yourself and ask, " why would it be somewhere else in

> > > > your body now " ?

> > > >

> > > > Could it be because when you do a biopsy (cutting into the pea in

> > > > the orange or even just a needle biopsy) that one lousy cell could

> > > > escape from that pea and travel somewhere else in your body?..

> > > > whereas, if you just left the damn pea alone, since it had been

> > > > there 3 years or so already, you'd be better off.

> > > >

> > > > And it could take years to show up again in your body or it could

> > > > show up right away, just because of the biopsy.

> > > >

> > > > Now wouldn't you suppose that you should forget about doing a

> > biopsy

> > > > and just remove the pea (tumor) anyway, cancerous or not.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I THINK!

> > >

> > > Just another thought,... I saw on the Dr. Oz show how to deal with a

> > > pimple.. he said you should NEVER poke it with a pin as you will

> > > spread it and damage the tissue below... you should gently slice the

> > > top open... I think this relates to tumors as well, but only if they

> > > are visible on your skin... that's why a drawing out salve, like

> > black

> > > salve works because it DRAWS it out naturally, or if you take the

> > > tablets internally, it'll get to the root of the cancer.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Also, don't read cure into experiences people post. I posted my vegan diet @

effects on my tumors. Dr. L put in her email that a vegan diet won't cure

cancer. I never said it did but I did provide a link to a lady who got her

stage 4 BC under control 30 yrs ago with it. If I post my experiences, I do it

to help others not to mislead them. It's up to them to investigate their chosen

paths. If I quantify (hope that's the right word) everything I post, it would

be tedious posting here. Dr. L posting a vegan diet does not cure cancer may

have really taken the wind out of the sails of someone trying it especially when

first dx. It's quick and easy and a good starting point. I also said in my

vegan post that I take supplements...I don't just do vegan. I find it

overwhelming to do all the stuff I need to do. I chip at it and do a bit at a

time and I think I've been doing this long enough to offer valuable info.

Louise

Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.

Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

[ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

I, too, appreciate reading from a varied field of experiences. I am naturally

selective to listening a little closer when the post rings true to me or sets

well with me. It's especially interesting when I've never heard of something

before.

Because I censure plenty on my own, I just want to encourage those who continue

to share their experiences with whatever has worked and what hasn't. I am

intrigued and interested, but will always use my own faculties to censure and

prefer it over other members trying to censure each other.

In this way, if doing spiritual work or emotional work helped, I'd like to hear

about it.

I'm especially appreciative of anyone who is in the medical field or working

with patients in giving their time and observations to this forum.

Thanks,

Deborah

[Guest guest]

Joe, your comments below remind me of a dear friend I lost last year to IBC.

She was on the phone with me while returning from a round of tests and she was

ordering up dinner and dessert, so i asked her if her doctor allowed her to have

that steak and sweets, and she said he told her she could eat whatever she

wanted. Whenever i would try to suggest something to her, she would respond

with, " but my doctor says not to do that " , or " I'd better ask my doctor before I

take that " . After I got my own cancer dx and she was deadset on convincing me

to start treatment, I informed her that I was still researching options and

hadn't yet made up my mind, and I asked if she had considered any alternatives

before she began treatment. She told me that I could die while I was wasting

time doing research.

I watched her wither away, from the day she was dx'd, she was strong and healthy

with just a small itchy spot on her breast that was bothersome for sure, but

didn't impact her life. Less than 18 months later after doing EVERYTHING her

doctor said and NOTHING else, she was gone.

My last email to her, I was suggesting that she watch that dvd, Healing Cancer

from the Inside Out, because I was so inspired by it. And she responded to me

that she was dying and that the cancer had spread all through her body. That

made me so sad, I saved that email and sometimes go back and read it. It makes

me angry that she wasn't willing to try anything else, not a diet, not an herbal

supplement, NOTHING that wasn't sanctioned by her oncologist.

I don't understand that way of thinking. I don't care if I come to you for

antibiotics for a sore throat, I'm going to go home and research what you gave

me and see what's out there. What others are saying about this antibiotic, any

news alerts out there, ANYTHING.

>

> > First let me apologize for leaving a letter off at the end of a

> > couple of words. My fingers are faster than my eyes and spell check

> > doesn't pick up these mistakes.

> >

> > Why do physicians do this?

> >

> > Check this out. When my Urologist wanted to do a 'Selective biopsy'

> > where they do a mapping of my bladder (numerous locations) I

> > resisted and told him I did not want to risk the seeding " . He said,

> > " I understand but I take extra precautions by using a lot of water " .

> > I still did not want it.

> > When undergoing a recent Colonoscopy, my last by the way, I made the

> > admitting nurse put down that I did not want any biopsy of any

> > 'suspicious' area but if they found a polyp they could remove it and

> > then biopsy that. She then admitted she had never heard of seeding

> > and promised to look it up.

> > I had to also explain my reasons to both the surgeon and anesthetist

> > and neither gave me an argument. They know! I'll leave your question

> > for you to guess the answer because I make enough comments on the

> > motives of the Allopathic system.

> >

> > Joe C.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

this is what happened to the husband of my friend. He had a tumor in his

throat, and they went in to do a biopsy, and suddenly he had cancer all through

his body. She told me (and I don't remember how she said she knew this) that

they burst open the tumor and the cells spread down his throat. At any rate, he

quickly went downhill after the biopsy and was gone within months.

There was a recent story in the paper about a school janitor who was diagnosed

with lung cancer in january, and the story read that he had gone downhill

quickly and could no longer work or function. But reading on, you discover that

he began treatment immediately after diagnosis, and now the cancer was in his

stomach and brain. I was just so sad after reading that, all I could think was

that he should not have begun treatment - he went to the doctor complaining of

back pain and they " discovered " the cancer and the rest is history.

>

> > I've been thinking alot... and that can be dangerous! ... here's a

> > scenario and relate this to your cancer:

> >

> >

> >

> > Say you have an orange and in the middle of the orange is an

> > ordinary green pea:... (the orange is your body and the pea is a

> > tumor)

> >

> > Say that pea (tumor) has been in that orange (your body) for 3

> > years or so,

> >

> > Say the doctor gets a scan or xray done on the orange (your body),

> >

> > Say the doctor tells you the scan is totally clear, except for

> > that one pea (tumor) ,

> >

> > Say he says to you, " we'll do a biopsy and if it is cancer, we'll

> > operate and remove the pea (tumor) and shoot you with some radiation

> > and chemo to make sure we get it all " ,

> >

> > Say you go back to the doctor after your chemo and radiation and

> > they do a scan and now it is somewhere else in your body, like in my

> > mother's case, it was only in her kidney and after chemo it's now by

> > her lungs, and like my sister, where it was just a one centimeter

> > tumor on the head of her pancreas and after the whipple operation

> > she was cancer free, and now it's in her liver .... I believe the

> > big mistake here is having the biopsy done.

> > show up right away, just because of the biopsy.

> >

> > Now wouldn't you suppose that you should forget about doing a biopsy

> > and just remove the pea (tumor) anyway, cancerous or not.

> >

> >

> > THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I THINK!

>

[Guest guest]

What started this entire discussion was never about not discussing our

experiences but the occasional, almost endorsement of Conventional

practices, that's what started the thread. It should be about beaten to

death at this point but keeps going because new elements enter into it.

Whether one wants to " quantify " what they write, it is important to avoid

making something appear as a big-time-endorsement without qualifying the

statement. Qualifying a statement to assure it isn't misinterpreted is

never tedious or boring. Understand not everyone is savvy and 'up' on

things and some are grasping for anything. Most of us agree that diet is

important and yes, we know that one should not expect a diet, vegan or not,

to cure stage 4 cancers. So we write as if we are telling a story and we

read books because they are, hopefully, well written. However then, as I

do, we often put on paper some thing entirely different from what we meant.

That's always a problem and I'll wager even more is misinterpreted because

of less than an average reading comprehension. That's why we need to be

clear.

Joe C.

--------------------------------------------------

From: <missnoname37@...>

Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 4:28 PM

< >

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

> Also, don't read cure into experiences people post. I posted my vegan

> diet @ effects on my tumors. Dr. L put in her email that a vegan diet

> won't cure cancer. I never said it did but I did provide a link to a lady

> who got her stage 4 BC under control 30 yrs ago with it. If I post my

> experiences, I do it to help others not to mislead them. It's up to them

> to investigate their chosen paths. If I quantify (hope that's the right

> word) everything I post, it would be tedious posting here. Dr. L posting a

> vegan diet does not cure cancer may have really taken the wind out of the

> sails of someone trying it especially when first dx. It's quick and easy

> and a good starting point. I also said in my vegan post that I take

> supplements...I don't just do vegan. I find it overwhelming to do all

> the stuff I need to do. I chip at it and do a bit at a time and I think

> I've been doing this long enough to offer valuable info.

>

> Louise

> Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.

> Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

>

> [ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

>

> I, too, appreciate reading from a varied field of experiences. I am

> naturally selective to listening a little closer when the post rings true

> to me or sets well with me. It's especially interesting when I've never

> heard of something before.

>

> Because I censure plenty on my own, I just want to encourage those who

> continue to share their experiences with whatever has worked and what

> hasn't. I am intrigued and interested, but will always use my own

> faculties to censure and prefer it over other members trying to censure

> each other.

>

> In this way, if doing spiritual work or emotional work helped, I'd like to

> hear about it.

>

> I'm especially appreciative of anyone who is in the medical field or

> working with patients in giving their time and observations to this forum.

>

> Thanks,

> Deborah

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was clear. I said the tumors shrank. I never said they went away or I was

cured. If we're going to mention other people's writing, make sure we

understand what they wrote before pointing fingers. This means, read it again

before pounding out accusations on the keyboard.

Louise

Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.

Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

Re: [ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

What started this entire discussion was never about not discussing our

experiences but the occasional, almost endorsement of Conventional

practices, that's what started the thread. It should be about beaten to

death at this point but keeps going because new elements enter into it.

Whether one wants to " quantify " what they write, it is important to avoid

making something appear as a big-time-endorsement without qualifying the

statement. Qualifying a statement to assure it isn't misinterpreted is

never tedious or boring. Understand not everyone is savvy and 'up' on

things and some are grasping for anything. Most of us agree that diet is

important and yes, we know that one should not expect a diet, vegan or not,

to cure stage 4 cancers. So we write as if we are telling a story and we

read books because they are, hopefully, well written. However then, as I

do, we often put on paper some thing entirely different from what we meant.

That's always a problem and I'll wager even more is misinterpreted because

of less than an average reading comprehension. That's why we need to be

clear.

Joe C.

[Guest guest]

Louise you took that part out of context. This is what I wrote: " Please

understand that a very healthy diet is always recommended and is most always

" part " of a successful natural protocol. However, some people only do a raw

or vegan diet hoping it will cure there cancer. It takes much more than

that to be successful, in my opinion. " In a previous post I said " Diet (raw

or otherwise) alone almost never cures cancer (notice that I used the word

" almost " ). " I included the parenthesis because I knew someone would

misquote me or misread. There will always be an exception to everything. I

know this and quite well understand it. I talk to many who are fighting

cancer and you are right a vegan diet is a good start but it is foundational

at best just as a good organic multi-vitamin mineral supplement.

Personally, I would rather people be honest than imply to me that a vegan

diet would cure my cancer. And believe it or not but changing diets is not

usually quick and easy for most people because it involves change. It might

be easy for you and it was also easy for me because I was ready to do

anything, but we are not the norm in that area and it took me a while to

learn this because I thought that at the very least people fighting cancer

should be willing to change their diet.

It's great that you don't read cure into the posts but not everyone is like

you. Many people are literally hanging on by a thread and I guarantee you

that if someone said they were cured by eating a teaspoon of a specific

potting soil there would be many on this list and others (because it would

spread like wildfire) that would go out and get that potting soil within the

hour.

It's great that you are taking responsibility for your own health. I

absolutely applaud you in taking responsibility for your own health!

Be Well

Dr.L

-----Original Message-----

Also, don't read cure into experiences people post. I posted my vegan diet

@ effects on my tumors. Dr. L put in her email that a vegan diet won't cure

cancer. I never said it did but I did provide a link to a lady who got her

stage 4 BC under control 30 yrs ago with it. If I post my experiences, I do

it to help others not to mislead them. It's up to them to investigate their

chosen paths. If I quantify (hope that's the right word) everything I post,

it would be tedious posting here. Dr. L posting a vegan diet does not cure

cancer may have really taken the wind out of the sails of someone trying it

especially when first dx. It's quick and easy and a good starting point. I

also said in my vegan post that I take supplements...I don't just do vegan.

I find it overwhelming to do all the stuff I need to do. I chip at it and

do a bit at a time and I think I've been doing this long enough to offer

valuable info.

Louise

Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.

Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

[Guest guest]

Than you. Point taken. I misread your email from the start.

Louise

Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.

Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

RE: [ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

Louise you took that part out of context. This is what I wrote: " Please

understand that a very healthy diet is always recommended and is most always

" part " of a successful natural protocol. However, some people only do a raw

or vegan diet hoping it will cure there cancer. It takes much more than

that to be successful, in my opinion. " In a previous post I said " Diet (raw

or otherwise) alone almost never cures cancer (notice that I used the word

" almost " ). " I included the parenthesis because I knew someone would

misquote me or misread. There will always be an exception to everything. I

know this and quite well understand it. I talk to many who are fighting

cancer and you are right a vegan diet is a good start but it is foundational

at best just as a good organic multi-vitamin mineral supplement.

Personally, I would rather people be honest than imply to me that a vegan

diet would cure my cancer. And believe it or not but changing diets is not

usually quick and easy for most people because it involves change. It might

be easy for you and it was also easy for me because I was ready to do

anything, but we are not the norm in that area and it took me a while to

learn this because I thought that at the very least people fighting cancer

should be willing to change their diet.

It's great that you don't read cure into the posts but not everyone is like

you. Many people are literally hanging on by a thread and I guarantee you

that if someone said they were cured by eating a teaspoon of a specific

potting soil there would be many on this list and others (because it would

spread like wildfire) that would go out and get that potting soil within the

hour.

It's great that you are taking responsibility for your own health. I

absolutely applaud you in taking responsibility for your own health!

Be Well

Dr.L

[Guest guest]

Hello to missnonname37@....

I had breast cancer this year in the left breast. Had breast removed. The

pathology stated tumor 6.5 cm. I wished I could have saved the breast. Anyhow, I

am under an integrated dr.'s care, and through networking and learning, I am

treating myself alternatively, as I had 2-positive lymph nodes, and the

oncologists want me to do chemo, RADs and tamoxiphen. I def do not want to do

chemo, and the other...rest for the most part. I would love to be able to

connect with your friend that had BC 30 years ago, and was successful in taking

care of herself. Can you help me with this? I can be reached at

whitelace_n_lavender@....

Thank you for listening to me...I can say more later.

Lynn

________________________________

From: " missnoname37@... " <missnoname37@...>

Sent: Sat, June 5, 2010 4:28:56 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

Also, don't read cure into experiences people post. I posted my vegan diet @

effects on my tumors. Dr. L put in her email that a vegan diet won't cure

cancer. I never said it did but I did provide a link to a lady who got her

stage 4 BC under control 30 yrs ago with it. If I post my experiences, I do it

to help others not to mislead them. It's up to them to investigate their chosen

paths. If I quantify (hope that's the right word) everything I post, it would

be tedious posting here. Dr. L posting a vegan diet does not cure cancer may

have really taken the wind out of the sails of someone trying it especially when

first dx. It's quick and easy and a good starting point. I also said in my

vegan post that I take supplements...I don't just do vegan. I find it

overwhelming to do all the stuff I need to do. I chip at it and do a bit at a

time and I think I've been doing this long enough to offer valuable info.

Louise

Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.

Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

[ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

I, too, appreciate reading from a varied field of experiences. I am naturally

selective to listening a little closer when the post rings true to me or sets

well with me. It's especially interesting when I've never heard of something

before.

Because I censure plenty on my own, I just want to encourage those who continue

to share their experiences with whatever has worked and what hasn't. I am

intrigued and interested, but will always use my own faculties to censure and

prefer it over other members trying to censure each other.

In this way, if doing spiritual work or emotional work helped, I'd like to hear

about it.

I'm especially appreciative of anyone who is in the medical field or working

with patients in giving their time and observations to this forum.

Thanks,

Deborah

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

--------------------------------------------------

From: <missnoname37@...>

Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 6:20 PM

< >

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

> I was clear. I said the tumors shrank. I never said they went away or I

> was cured. If we're going to mention other people's writing, make sure we

> understand what they wrote before pointing fingers. This means, read it

> again before pounding out accusations on the keyboard.

>

> Louise

> Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.

> Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

>

> Re: [ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

>

> What started this entire discussion was never about not discussing our

> experiences but the occasional, almost endorsement of Conventional

> practices, that's what started the thread. It should be about beaten to

> death at this point but keeps going because new elements enter into it.

> Whether one wants to " quantify " what they write, it is important to avoid

> making something appear as a big-time-endorsement without qualifying the

> statement. Qualifying a statement to assure it isn't misinterpreted is

> never tedious or boring. Understand not everyone is savvy and 'up' on

> things and some are grasping for anything. Most of us agree that diet is

> important and yes, we know that one should not expect a diet, vegan or

> not,

> to cure stage 4 cancers. So we write as if we are telling a story and we

> read books because they are, hopefully, well written. However then, as I

> do, we often put on paper some thing entirely different from what we

> meant.

> That's always a problem and I'll wager even more is misinterpreted because

> of less than an average reading comprehension. That's why we need to be

> clear.

> Joe C.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Since my post was included in the reply below, the writer needs to re-read

what I wrote because there is " no pounding out accusations " in the entire

e-mail and again illustrates why we must be careful what we write because

tonight we have read a couple of misinterpretations. My only point in the

entire e-mail was to show why this thread started but again, was taken

wrongly. I do not see one word in my post below that speaks about what you

wrote about 'shrinking tumors' or that you said anything about being cured.

???? I left it in its entirety to be read again. then you will see I only

repeated one word of your original post.......'quantify'. Perhaps including

my post was just because that was the one you clicked on 'Reply'. It

just supports the need to be careful and I must admit I have sent the list

mail that was meant privately. We are not perfect but this is a serous

matter, this cancer and is why some feel that new people might be easily

led astray.

Joe C.

--------------------------------------------------

From: <missnoname37@...>

Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 6:20 PM

< >

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

> I was clear. I said the tumors shrank. I never said they went away or I

> was cured. If we're going to mention other people's writing, make sure we

> understand what they wrote before pointing fingers. This means, read it

> again before pounding out accusations on the keyboard.

>

> Louise

> Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.

> Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

>

> Re: [ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

>

> What started this entire discussion was never about not discussing our

> experiences but the occasional, almost endorsement of Conventional

> practices, that's what started the thread. It should be about beaten to

> death at this point but keeps going because new elements enter into it.

> Whether one wants to " quantify " what they write, it is important to avoid

> making something appear as a big-time-endorsement without qualifying the

> statement. Qualifying a statement to assure it isn't misinterpreted is

> never tedious or boring. Understand not everyone is savvy and 'up' on

> things and some are grasping for anything. Most of us agree that diet is

> important and yes, we know that one should not expect a diet, vegan or

> not,

> to cure stage 4 cancers. So we write as if we are telling a story and we

> read books because they are, hopefully, well written. However then, as I

> do, we often put on paper some thing entirely different from what we

> meant.

> That's always a problem and I'll wager even more is misinterpreted because

> of less than an average reading comprehension. That's why we need to be

> clear.

> Joe C.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah ok. Point taken. I was referring to Dr. L's post. I'm taking myself off

this list for awhile. I've got nothing to offer right now.

Louise

Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.

Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

Re: [ ] Re: Sharing our own experience

>

> What started this entire discussion was never about not discussing our

> experiences but the occasional, almost endorsement of Conventional

> practices, that's what started the thread. It should be about beaten to

> death at this point but keeps going because new elements enter into it.

> Whether one wants to " quantify " what they write, it is important to avoid

> making something appear as a big-time-endorsement without qualifying the

> statement. Qualifying a statement to assure it isn't misinterpreted is

> never tedious or boring. Understand not everyone is savvy and 'up' on

> things and some are grasping for anything. Most of us agree that diet is

> important and yes, we know that one should not expect a diet, vegan or

> not,

> to cure stage 4 cancers. So we write as if we are telling a story and we

> read books because they are, hopefully, well written. However then, as I

> do, we often put on paper some thing entirely different from what we

> meant.

> That's always a problem and I'll wager even more is misinterpreted because

> of less than an average reading comprehension. That's why we need to be

> clear.

> Joe C.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

After being a huge meat eater all my life, I went to a vegan diet after my Dr

recommended I did. Wasnt easy the first six months a while my health began to

improve. Blood pressure went down, along with many other health issues. Mike

promotes a vegan diet to cure cancer, while I believe it can be a good

thing I havent personally seen it cure cancer. These last few months I have

started mixing in some animal protein on a limited basis, grass feed beef and

some quality chicken. My blood HDL Cholesterol was to low ( used to be high!) so

decided to mix in a bit of animal protein to see if I can get it back within

normal range. It to me all boils down to research and decide what is the best

fit for you. I have for five years now been watching the budwig group and seen

many success stories. I have had two friends while living well with Melanoma

liver mets try the budwig and live 18 months past the sixteen month death

sentence on the budwig plan. Of course both these people were in there 70s so

there immune system wasnt as strong. People who ask me I always recommend a

vegan diet, budwig or otherwise when first dealing with cancer. Just my two

cents. Mike M