Re: Ultrasound After Flush

September 18, 2002

Remember Barry's case. He's no longer here to vote, but he passed hundreds

of gall stones in several flushes and the ultrasound showed the " problem "

stone still there. He had such a diseased gall bladder before he started to

flush that he didn't respond as well to the flushes as he would have with a

more healthy gallbladder.

The moral of the story? Don't wait until you're in danger of needing

emergency surgery for the pain of gall bladder attacks before you start

flushing. Start now and keep it up, while there's still time

Vince

>From: " L. Meydrech " <claudiameydrech@...>

>Reply-gallstones

><gallstones >

>Subject: Ultrasound After Flush

>Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:18:16 -0500

>

>I am kind of taking my own poll...how many

>of you have been told that you have gallstones

>after an ultrasound, have done the flush, then

>have gone for another ultrasound and had

>no gallstones, or noticeably less?

>

>Would also like to know if you have had

>gallstones in an ultrasound, did the flush, and

>ultrasound showed little change after the flush.

>

>Thanks lots!

>

> L. Meydrech, CN

>http://nutritionist.tripod.com/gallbladder.html ~ My Flushes

>http://nutritionist.tripod.com ~ Journey to Health & Auctions

> " A cheerful heart is good medicine " Prov. 17:22a

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

September 18, 2002

...or the moral of the story could be that flushes don't work, so go

ahead and have the surgery and don't waste your time on flushes. I

have done a little bit of research on the Internet regarding flushes,

and I have not really found any proof that flushes are useful other

than anecdotal testimonials. I ran across a discussion thread on

some board that was in response to a similar question that

asked. There were tons of responses, but not one of them could say

that they had pre- and post-flush ultrasounds showing that the flush

got rid of (or even significantly reduced) their gallstones.

One problematic thing about proving that flushes work is that the

gallbladder can be asymptomatic with stones in it, and it can go

into " remission " for long periods of time. A person can therefore

associate their improved state with the flush, when it actually could

just be coincidence.

I wish I could believe more in the flush, but so far I don't.

- (the skeptic)

> Remember Barry's case. He's no longer here to vote, but he passed

hundreds

> of gall stones in several flushes and the ultrasound showed

the " problem "

> stone still there. He had such a diseased gall bladder before he

started to

> flush that he didn't respond as well to the flushes as he would

have with a

> more healthy gallbladder.

>

> The moral of the story? Don't wait until you're in danger of

needing

> emergency surgery for the pain of gall bladder attacks before you

start

> flushing. Start now and keep it up, while there's still time

>

> Vince

>

> >From: " L. Meydrech " <claudiameydrech@c...>

> >Reply-gallstones@y...

> ><gallstones@y...>

> >Subject: Ultrasound After Flush

> >Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:18:16 -0500

> >

> >I am kind of taking my own poll...how many

> >of you have been told that you have gallstones

> >after an ultrasound, have done the flush, then

> >have gone for another ultrasound and had

> >no gallstones, or noticeably less?

> >

> >Would also like to know if you have had

> >gallstones in an ultrasound, did the flush, and

> >ultrasound showed little change after the flush.

> >

> >Thanks lots!

> >

> > L. Meydrech, CN

> >http://nutritionist.tripod.com/gallbladder.html ~ My Flushes

> >http://nutritionist.tripod.com ~ Journey to Health & Auctions

> > " A cheerful heart is good medicine " Prov. 17:22a

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

http://mobile.msn.com

September 18, 2002

wrote:

" I ran across a discussion thread on

some board that was in response to a similar question that

asked. " " There were tons of responses, but not one of them could say

that they had pre- and post-flush ultrasounds showing that the flush

got rid of (or even significantly reduced) their gallstones. "

, question for you:

Are you posting messages in this forum because you want to help people, or

because you just like to tell lies on a public forum?

I don't think you are here because you want to help people.

The thread you are referring to is this one:

http://curezone.com/forums/ft.asp?f=73 & i=143

This is not the first time you ask the same question about that thread.

90% of messages that you will find in that thread HAVE NOT been posted

there as a direct replies to the question:

" Has anyone had an ultrasound before & after a cleanse? "

That " forum " is actually not a real forum, and that thread is actually not

a real thread.

It is actually " forum software " used as a tool to help organizing Liver

Flush FAQ and answers.

I copied those messages from this group and from different other forums,

because those messages illustrate that liver flush have done what it was

suppose to, at least in the case of those people who wrote those messages.

Now, why would I call you a liar?

Because you said " not one of them could say that they had.... " . If you

really read those stories, you will understand that many of them got

gallstones out.

I will try to help you read it again.

I will help you with a few examples:

============================

Story by " Koeller " , originally posted in this group

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=73 & i=158

(ultrasound proof)

Excerpt from that story:

" I recently went for an abdominal ultrasound and I was diagnosed with an

empty healthy gallbladder.

The ultrasound technician had had her gallbladder out and mentioned that

she wish she had known about the flush as well before taking to the knife. "

Buy the way ... Koeller was naive enough to believe that one flush

can cure and prevent gallstones formation.

One year later ... he got gallstone back in his gallbladder ... he posted

story here ... search the archives.

But, that does not change the fact that his gallbladder was stone free for

some time ...

=============================

Story by Boris, originally posted in this group

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=73 & i=145

(not ultrasound but CT-scan)

excerpt:

" The next morning when the doctors had their morning round and

they came in to my room I showed them the stones and immediately

one of them (who was a professor in medicine) said that it was

impossible so I got rather upset and asked them to send the gallstones

to their lab for an analyzes and they said I was ridiculous and

the professor said ironically to me that it was a medical sensation

and that maybe I should call the press, at that point I was very upset

and told him that with that attitude maybe he shouldn't be practicing

medicine. They left my room after deciding to give me a CT-scan

and a coloscopy. Later during the day one of the doctors that had

been in my room that morning came up to me and said that they had agreed

to send the gallstones for analyzes. During that day I had the CT-scan

and the coloscopy without any results so I was released from the hospital

and am now waiting for a letter from the hospital about the

gallstone - analyzes. "

If you Read all the messages posted by Boris in this group ... and you will

realize how many positive health improvements he got from liver flush.

In the course of several months He lost over 15 KG (he was overweight) and

he lost all his symptoms.

It is far more of the proof then CT scan is.

=============================================

There is also Dale's story there:

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=73 & i=144

(ultrasound proof)

Excerpt

" It is only obvious to me that a large stone can pass because of having

passed a large stone, several of them for that matter. When I had an MRI in

February of '99' I was told that it was 'A' stone and couldn't ascertain the

exact size of it from either the doctor or the hospital radiologist. So, I

first started with a diet close to void of fat and along with that started

taking herbs and other concoctions to attempt to breakup the stone's size. I

must have been successful because in October when I had a liver attack

because I'd avoided taking in all fats for over a month the ultrasound

showed that I had no stones "

=========================================

In this story:

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=73 & i=161

Sara Klein Ridgley, PhD talks about much harder proof of flush effectiveness.

the STONE HARD STONES proof.

I think everyone would agree that " the STONE HARD STONES " are much " harder "

proof then the Ultrasound exam ... so that is the reason why that story was

included.

Excerpt:

" One woman, who was 86 at the time (11 years ago), collected the stones

(that were rock hard) and put them in a jar, and took them to her

physician. She announced that " this doctor from America (I was visiting

another country when this happened...) took my stones out " . The doctor

first thought that she was nuts, but when she showed him the jar, he went

white in the face. Then he ordered another ultrasound and found the

gallstones that were there the week before were gone. This woman is still

alive and kicking happily and in good health! "

=====================

Sam with this story:

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=73 & i=160

STONE HARD STONES proof.

Excerpt:

" In the morning, they counted over 28 calcified stones of different color,

many of them bigger than marbles. The stones were as hard as rock.

======================

In this story .... effectiveness of flush was proved by examination and by

surgery:

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=73 & i=180

Excerpt:

" Well, about 10 pm she started passing stones. She passed about 20 total.

She was still in pain. I was sorry to hear that. I knew that one cleanse

probably wouldn't solve her problem, but I had hoped that it would ease her

pain so that surgery wouldn't be necessary.

She went in the next day for tests and the doctor said she didn't have any

stones but that her gall bladder was only functioning at 8%. She had to

have it removed and felt better because the pain stopped, but I know from

what I've read, that her problems may be just beginning. I hope that she

will entertain doing more cleanses, but I don't know. "

There are few other stories there with calcified stones mentioned.

=========================

Read this is one message, written by " Green " :

gallstones/message/3425

==============================================

From: " Green " < LWeebs@... >

Date: Fri Jan 5, 2001 5:12 am

Subject: Polyps are gone!

YEAH!!!! I just wanted to drop a line to tell all of you, from my first

hand experience, Dr. DOES know what she's doing. If you are a skeptic

and you get very sick, try it and you won't be sorry.

I wasn't a number one skeptic but I had my doubts. Back in October, I had

an ultrasound that revealed no gallstones in my gallbladder, but instead

several small polyps. Dr. believes that cysts(polyps) are from a

parasite, so I bought some of her parasite herbs and zapper and started in

on them right away. I have done the flush 3 times, but after my first flush

I noticed a tremendous difference. I could eat anything I wanted and not

get sick and have the usual gallbladder attack symptoms.

I had a Hidascan last Thursday to see if my gallbladder was even working. I

had no doubt that it was, but the doctors wanted to run this test and I had

to have it done to follow up on their advice due to a possible new medical

insurance policy. I got the results today from the doc.!!!!:

The nurse called and said that the gallbladder was in perfect working order

and nothing further needed to be done. I said, " But what about the polyps,

are they still there? " She acted like she didn't know what I was talking

about. She was only reading the doctors notes and she quoted him as saying,

" No adhesion or lesions, no thickening of the wall, extremely clean

gallbladder. " Suffice it to say, she said the doc has given me a clean bill

of health. YES!!!!!!!

So, all I have to say for you people that argue this stuff...be

careful...you may have to do it some day to save your life!

=======================================================

From: " Green " <LWeebs@...>

Date: Fri Jan 5, 2001 10:44 pm

Subject: Re: Polyps are gone!

Oh, the Hidascan results are not what I was thrilled about. It was the

ultrasound results BEFORE the Hidascan to show the polyps were gone. The

Hidascan wouldn't have been able to show that.

=======================================================

============================

This story is there because of the obvious:

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=73 & i=185

Subject: Re: Has anyone had an ultrasound before & after a cleanse ?

From: Weebs < Weebs > | Show All messages posted by Weebs |

Date: 22:44 Jan 04 2002 C Recommended Message!

I had an ultrasound before and after. The ultrasound before didn't show

gallstones, but instead showed gallbladder " cysts " . I did the

gallbladder/liver cleanse which produced many smaller gallstones. I went

back for further testing with another ultrasound and it showed an

absolutely clean gallbladder. I didn't have to make an appt. to take it out.

=============================

This story is there because he passed huge stones:

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=73 & i=150

=====================================

In other stories, effectiveness was proved by results ... no more

pain/attack in years.

Do you realize now that what you said was a BIG lie?

Who are you trying to manipulate?

I don't think manipulative people like you belong to Liver Flush Support Group.

You have 3 choices:

1. Change your attitude ... become more supportive, and read better

2. Leave this group by yourself.

3. Continue with the same attitude and make " remove-from-the-group " job

for me.

Agnes

September 18, 2002

Hummm....I've been a reader of this forum for a good 10 months now and was

in terrible pain when I discovered this forum. I was having attacks every 3

to 4 days for the past 3 years and couldnt eat a large number of foods

without ending up in the bath from 3am till 7am to try and dull the pain.

I did my first and only flush earlier this year (I have desperately wanted

to continue but wasnt in the position to as I lost my home and had to rely

on friends floors unitl recently). I reported back then that it caused me

the biggest and most painful attack I've EVER had and was scared to do this

again. I now thank you all on this forum for giving me the encouragement to

carry on as I havent had a SINGLE attack since this time - not even a

flutter. And due to the stressful times of late, I have been eating an

appaling variety of foods I wouldnt of even been able to look at without my

gallbladder screaming at me (including pizzas, cheese and curry! All be it

not together!). It is with full and absolutely astonishment that this one

flush (accompanied with a few months beforehand of correct eating with the

help of Dr Cabots book) has done this for me.

My operation was booked in for August 02 and I was in a dilemma on wether to

undergo this or not as I hadnt had an attack since March (the night of the

flush). So I went off to a new doctor to get a 4th opinion (had been

previously scorned by doctors and the surgeon with " what on EARTH do you

want your gallbladder for " ). She said that many people have gallstones but

these dont cause pain if your body is in reasonable working order and your

supplying your liver with what it needs. The problems are caused with poor

bile and its flow in the liver. She said as long as your gallbladder is not

diseased then there is absolutely no reason to have surgery and was amazed

at how I'de 'cleaned my liver'. UK doctors are still a very long way off

from acknowledging 'alternative' treatments. She wanted to know the books,

website etc I'de been reading in a bid to learn more on this topic.

I know you have said the " gallbladder can be asymptomatic with stones in it,

and it can go into " remission " for long periods of time. A person can

therefore associate their improved state with the flush, when it actually

could just be coincidence " . Coincidence????You what???? So you havent had

regular attacks then as you'de know they dont just all of a sudden stop over

night if no changes have been made with your diet and " oh, it must be a

coincidence that the night before you did a flush. " I'm actually quite

afronted by this comment.

I truely beleive that I cleansed the liver and shed alot of crap from it and

therefore my liver is in a much more healthier state and can cope so much

better with the junk food I occasionally fill my tummy with!. Before

stumbling across the whole cleansing and flushing (I've planned another in a

few weeks time by the way) I would have jumped at the chance of stopping the

pain with an operation. I now know better and more importantly it has WORKED

for me. OK - even if it hasnt got rid of my gallstone which I have no proof

either way, as the UK hospitals do not offer the service of having

ultrasounds done unless before an op (large one in gallbladder of almost 2cm

before the flush), I can now live very happily with it still there. It does

not hinder my life for one second, not one ounce of pain, not one flutter.

Moral of your story (being that " have the surgery and don't waste your time

on flushes " )....is ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. I am so delighted what the cleansing

and flush has done for me - its taken the reason for surgery away and for

that I'm eternally grateful.

Moral of my story....dont knock ANYTHING until you've done it yourself.

-----Original Message-----

From: B [mailto:itsyvonne@...]

Sent: Wednesday, 18 Sep 2002 8:48 am

gallstones

Subject: Re: Ultrasound After Flush

...or the moral of the story could be that flushes don't work, so go

ahead and have the surgery and don't waste your time on flushes. I

have done a little bit of research on the Internet regarding flushes,

and I have not really found any proof that flushes are useful other

than anecdotal testimonials. I ran across a discussion thread on

some board that was in response to a similar question that

asked. There were tons of responses, but not one of them could say

that they had pre- and post-flush ultrasounds showing that the flush

got rid of (or even significantly reduced) their gallstones.

One problematic thing about proving that flushes work is that the

gallbladder can be asymptomatic with stones in it, and it can go

into " remission " for long periods of time. A person can therefore

associate their improved state with the flush, when it actually could

just be coincidence.

I wish I could believe more in the flush, but so far I don't.

- (the skeptic)

> Remember Barry's case. He's no longer here to vote, but he passed

hundreds

> of gall stones in several flushes and the ultrasound showed

the " problem "

> stone still there. He had such a diseased gall bladder before he

started to

> flush that he didn't respond as well to the flushes as he would

have with a

> more healthy gallbladder.

>

> The moral of the story? Don't wait until you're in danger of

needing

> emergency surgery for the pain of gall bladder attacks before you

start

> flushing. Start now and keep it up, while there's still time

>

> Vince

>

> >From: " L. Meydrech " <claudiameydrech@c...>

> >Reply-gallstones@y...

> ><gallstones@y...>

> >Subject: Ultrasound After Flush

> >Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:18:16 -0500

> >

> >I am kind of taking my own poll...how many

> >of you have been told that you have gallstones

> >after an ultrasound, have done the flush, then

> >have gone for another ultrasound and had

> >no gallstones, or noticeably less?

> >

> >Would also like to know if you have had

> >gallstones in an ultrasound, did the flush, and

> >ultrasound showed little change after the flush.

> >

> >Thanks lots!

> >

> > L. Meydrech, CN

> >http://nutritionist.tripod.com/gallbladder.html ~ My Flushes

> >http://nutritionist.tripod.com ~ Journey to Health & Auctions

> > " A cheerful heart is good medicine " Prov. 17:22a

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

http://mobile.msn.com

September 18, 2002

Hi ,

In my humble opinion, you won't in our lifetime hear any more than anecdotal

testimonies about gallbladder flushing. That's all we're going to have

about many very good and promising health giving protocols. If you're

looking for the millions of dollars, double blind, placebo controlled,

journal published, peer reviewed studies on the efficacy of gallbladder

flushing you are wasting your time looking for them. These types of studies

won't help the ones with the money make more money if they prove you can get

rid of gallstones with unpatentable olive oil and grapefruit juice. This is

why they won't spend the money on these studies.

Vince

>From: " B " <itsyvonne@...>

>..or the moral of the story could be that flushes don't work, so go

>ahead and have the surgery and don't waste your time on flushes. I

>have done a little bit of research on the Internet regarding flushes,

>and I have not really found any proof that flushes are useful other

>than anecdotal testimonials. I ran across a discussion thread on

>some board that was in response to a similar question that

>asked. There were tons of responses, but not one of them could say

>that they had pre- and post-flush ultrasounds showing that the flush

>got rid of (or even significantly reduced) their gallstones.

>

_________________________________________________________________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

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September 18, 2002

Boy did I have to laugh reading this. First it's quite obvious that

you never took note of my personal story on this group regrading before and

after ultrasounds. Then, Vince nails it on the head as to the main reason

you will never see a double blind study done by the medical community

regarding the flushing proceedure in contradition to the gallbladder

removing proceedure.

Just to update you on my personal experience with getting rid of gallstones

and being free of gallstone pain for the last three years as of

October/November of this year. I was diagnosed with having " A " gallstone a

size of which I was never able to assertain from either my doctor or the

hospital radialogist in February of " 99 " . My follow-up doctor wanted me to

get in contact with a particular sugeon and have my gallbadder removed

within the next two weeks because, according to him, my gallbladder was

dead. He stated to me and my wife that my gallbladder probably hadn't been

working for the last ten years and that it was now thickened and very

diseased.

Well, I took that as meaning I would have to do something but I sure didn't

want to loose my gallbadder and I'd had a friend almost die just a few years

before from a gallbladder of which broke open and poisoned his system. He

ended up losing his pancreas and gallbladder and then had some sever

problems with his liver and kidneys for the next few years. He just died

this year as a result of a kidney infection of which got treated as an

inflamation instead of an infection. So, I was pretty apprehensive about

doing anything of a natural nature but I was also uncomfortable with getting

cut up too.

I then read a lot of information from the internet and even called

Chang and talked with her at some length. I then decided after reading about

some people in the upper years having passed gallstones as large as golf

balls and decided I could do that too if my gallstone happened to be that

large since it was only refered to as " A " gallstone.

I started taking gold coin grass, hydrangia root, and some other herbs to

seek dealing with the gallstone as it was. At that time I wasn't aware of

the connection between essential fatty acids, the liver and the bile

produced by it to do as I do today. Well, as things went I still would have

gallbladder attacks even though I would flush along wtih doing ozone

insuflations with colonics. I was fortunate in that my doctor, although not

in agreement with my doing the flushes, gave me a prescription to deal with

the pain, if I should need that type of medication, which I did, often. I

went through almost ninty tabs of roxicet in seven months time.

In August of that year I had one more attack after falling off the wagon and

eating hydrogenated fatty foods as well as animal fat because I wasn't

having any pain for weeks. After that attack I decided to not eat anything

of which I knew to have any fats in it. I mean I didn't even eat avacados

because of the saturated fat content of them. This was a major mistake on my

part because I then caused damage to my liver by this diet and this in turn

got me to my worst attack of all the attacks I'd had for the seven months

prior to it.

After having eaten a meal in a resturant with the person for whom I do a lot

of construction work. I was driving home and had my attack come on in just

minutes after eating a fat free meal. This one was so fast and so painful

that I thought of just pulling over and calling for an ambulance but then

realizing I had only twenty more minutes to be potentually at home and then

to the hospital I just bore with the pain and kept driving in a traffic that

would normally have been nothing but stop and go it just happend to maintain

a fair pace of around thirty five miles an hour on the freeway and I got

home in around 15 minutes.

Once my wife got me to the hospital at around 18:30 in the evening I didn't

even get to see a doctor for over two hours because there must have been an

on rush of accidents and other things because there were gurneys lining the

hallway of the emergency area of this large hospital. So, for that time

period I was on the gurney on the floor, in fettal possitions, spinning,

rolling, anything I could do to get my mind somewhere else and get just that

fleeting moment of relief from that pain. It's very hard to forget that

level of pain.

Now once a doctor finally got to me they gave me a shot that would normally

have worked within just a few minutes to relieve the pain but this time

either I didn't get the dose I'd been given in the past or simply was

dealing with something completely different in that it wasn't touching the

pain enought to get me comfortable.

Within just minutees I was being wheeled through the corador past the other

loaded gurneys on my way to get an ultrasound. There was one technician and

she then preceeded to rub that dam rod over the liver and gallbladder area

trying to find something. Since I'd been here three other times and had

gallstones those times she was trying, as best I could tell, to find

gallstones. So, since she could not seem to find any she got another senior

techitian and the two of them started playing with various levels of output

to find what was no longer there.

Finally the pain started to subside after the ultrasound and I was able to

go home. Well, the next day I reported to my doctor who then told me my

gallbladder looked great, i.e. healty, and that my liver looked good too

except for enlarged bile ducts. However, my blood test reported my AST, ALT,

ALK enzymes as showing me to have liver damage taking place.

Oh, and by the way when I asked my doctor at that time what he thought

about my gallbladder being healthy looking, free of the stone, and the fact

that I done the flushes to get to this point. He simply stated " You can't

argue with success " . But I have found that people like you do!!

That got me researching again and that is when I finally understood that

there is a connection between the liver's health and the gallblader's health

all by means of fats. I had ordered Dr. Cabot's book " The Liver Cleansing

Diet " and got that within a week of ordering. I read her book in around four

hours then went to the store, bought a load of fats started taking it in

imediately. So as of the fist week of November of " 99 " I've been an advocate

for the intake of fat as essential fatty acids and have not had another

gallbladder or liver attack since doing so.

It was just a few months after that that I found this group and started

writing here regarding my success with the flushing process and then even

made a discovery that I could do a super flush simply by consuming oil just

hours before getting a colonic with ozone added. I would often see towards

the end of the flush those familar little floating balls in contradiction to

the fecal matter that had proceeded their arrival, which moved along the

lower portion of the veiw tube.

I would have to say you're just going to have to learn from

experience or just move on. Your type of statements just are not truthful

nor accurate. I would say that Agnes has pretty well pointed out the error

of your statements and I just hope you can appreciate the information as

she's presented it. Otherwise this is to let you know, you have beem put on

notice regarding your post and the attitude reflected in it.

Thank you Vince and Agnes for your posts explaining just how off 's

statement really is regarding this groups purpose and the results people

like myself have had. She only joined this group last week, 9/7/02, so I

believe it would behoove the group to have this person placed on a moderated

setting.

Dale

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>