Guest guest Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 It seems to me that if one is Only scientifically oriented, that can be of great value to us and I look forward to hearing more about any topic, pro or con. However, to dismiss intuition, pendulums, muscle testing, ozone water, alkaline water and such all as fads is then not honoring people who are truly atuned to these areas. Saying one has no personal experience with these working well for them, and to them it seems bogus is fine. But stating it as a fact while others might find these adjunctively helpful tools doesn't seem to respect those who might have good experiences this way. And the same for therapies that have been tried and helped others from personal experience. While seemingly logical facts a person might have gotten who has not tried those therapy, might lead one to deny its helpfulness. I welcome all new ideas...that was the point of my asking...any experience with these things...yes or no is fine, but I have heard many testimonials of real people and some scientific ones that suppport many of these ideas and ways. It seems to me that wasting time discussing who/what is better is not the question....sharing experiences yes or no, giving new ideas to seek out...now this is what I myself and looking for and seeking. Some scientific data may be correct, or may not be comprehensive or include personal experiences to the contrary. These can be pitfalls. That is why our search can be so difficult, wading through everything from the most wholistic truth in any area. I hope this clarifies, but if not, I rest knowing that we all express ourselves differently, and often it takes a lot of words to see that basically, truly, we are on the same path towards health and healing. Carol > > When anyone quotes the scientific literature even if shows failure, > or states their own contrary experiences, or lays out their rationale > why a therapy might not be the best choice, this is > constructive. The concerns might prove to be off the mark, but > honest science has a way of zeroing in on the reality. To perceive > this process as " knocking " or " bashing " a therapy could indicate a > reflexive defensiveness, an emotional/financial investment, a fragile > ego, or perhaps an unyielding philosophy/indoctrination. All real > science welcomes thoughtful presentations of weaknesses in a > questionable view that is posited even if the counter argument is > exposited in a dry or wry manner. People tend to be blind to holes > in their own theories and this is part of the reason for the > existence of the peer-review system. > > Both conventional and alternative medicine are rife with fantasists > and ideologues. They can often be spotted by their insistences, by > their defensiveness, by their slipshod arguments, by their > excitability, or by their seething rabidity. There are subscribers > to this list who are trained in science or gifted in logic; they > really should consider posting more often. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 I appreciate what you're saying here but when many of us write about energy or intuition, you're quick to bash it to smithereens. Many of us owe our lives to modalities that cannot be quantified ... intuition included. I personally find it a bit offensive how quick you are to mock those things that are not scientific. I adore you and what you do, , but sometimes I think you go above and beyond to discredit things that can't be quantified ... neither can quantum physics. Doesn't make it any less real. A bit 'out there' and fantastic, but real just the same. Personally, energy has worked better for me than any supplements and pharmaceuticals, no matter who recommended them. When you ask me to quantify it, I can't, except to show you how my markers dropped, my ascites never returned, and my anemia went bye-bye. According to the scientists, that should not have happened, but it did ... and though I'm having some other difficulties right now, ascites and anemia and lack of energy are not problems for me any more and they sure were a year ago. So, IMO, it's fine to have a checks and balances, so to speak, but when something is working for someone, why would anyone want to bash that even if they don't understand it and can't quantify it? xxoo > > When anyone quotes the scientific literature even if shows failure, > or states their own contrary experiences, or lays out their rationale > why a therapy might not be the best choice, this is > constructive. The concerns might prove to be off the mark, but > honest science has a way of zeroing in on the reality. To perceive > this process as " knocking " or " bashing " a therapy could indicate a > reflexive defensiveness, an emotional/financial investment, a fragile > ego, or perhaps an unyielding philosophy/indoctrination. All real > science welcomes thoughtful presentations of weaknesses in a > questionable view that is posited even if the counter argument is > exposited in a dry or wry manner. People tend to be blind to holes > in their own theories and this is part of the reason for the > existence of the peer-review system. > > Both conventional and alternative medicine are rife with fantasists > and ideologues. They can often be spotted by their insistences, by > their defensiveness, by their slipshod arguments, by their > excitability, or by their seething rabidity. There are subscribers > to this list who are trained in science or gifted in logic; they > really should consider posting more often. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 I guess I am going to chip in as well, I get hold of 75 years old scientific information, at least clinically documented and published in a professional medical literature roughly 4 weeks ago, which states that such and such method, or combination of methods, does so and so. One week later, 3 weeks ago, I get into a contact with a fellow who is eager to use this information in an attempt to fish his wife with a year and a half history of metastized pancreatic cancer, one year after a Whipple surgery, from the river Styx, who he has kept alive till now despite a cca 8.5 month professional scientific prognosis of 6 weeks till dead. We loose one week in translations and obtaining the ingredients. He starts with a Gung Ho treatment with oral supplementation, which immediately begins to show positive results, but not good enough. One week later he starts implementing intramuscular injections as per the supplied information. In another week, the woman, who two weeks ago looked like done in any minute is on her legs and now planning to visit relatives 200 mi distance in order to socialize. What conclusions can I possibly draw from this? My conclusion is, that it works as described 75 years ago, anything else non withstanding, be it science, or whatever. If anyone wants to draw different conclusions, that is definitely their choice, but I will have nothing to do with them. With kind regards, Slavek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 I think you know that we aren't talking about Rife or ultrasound. Energy work is in a category all by itself because we are energy. Energy can be manipulated. So energy workers can access one's energy field to release restrictions and blockages for a free-er flow and that helps to correct lots of different things. There is also intrusive energy that destroys. That can be just as useful as gamma knife radiation if one responds well to such aggressive energy, which I do not. Actually " sickly dolorous skies " works just fine for me because I can fill in the shade with my own imagination. I know you are unfamiliar with working with either energy or intuition. There are things that can be known even though it makes no sense. There are people getting well all the time when it's supposed to be impossible. It's the place where miracles exist ... or what people call miracles. They're only miracles because the conventional mind says it's impossible. But that's just a limitation of an intellectual mind. I'll stay in my little unquantifiable world. It seems to be the only thing that works for me anyway. xxoo VGammill <vgammill@...> wrote: > > , > > When someone says " energy " is it bashing it to smithereens to > request a defining of terms, if we are talking about an > electro-magnetic energy (e.g. Rife), compressional waves (e.g. > ultrasound), or something else? Otherwise, the conversation loses > all meaning for communication purposes. Even patrons of the poetic > arts would be horrified if the artist served only vague pap. If as a poet you said " the sickly dolorous skies " we would want to know, > what? Are the skies mauve, ecru, green, puce, taupe? > > Similarly, if someone says " intuition " I consider it an open > invitation to ask obvious questions that no one can assume the > answers to. Is the respondent's intuition better than that of > others? How often does their intuition prove to need serious > adjustment? Is all their thinking by intuition? How do they handle it if their intuition is contrary to logic, even their own > logic? When did they reach intuitive maturity -- three years of age, 21 years old, or maybe just this morning? Does its accuracy > correlate with the amount of grog remaining in the flagon? If so, > then it can be quantified. > > , if someone uses intuition because they have a difficult time learning or reasoning, they should not be too proud to say so. Not everyone is blessed with these necessary skills. For me it is very rewarding to help bring such people up to speed. This task can't be done with the congenitally mentally handicapped. It can be done with most new-age votaries. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 I have had some experience with an intuitive. Fortunately or unfortunately my dog seems to be a medical empath (now you all will really think I am off my rocker LOL). I got him as a mill dog that was sold for resale When he was a wee pup he was trying to tell me about the cancer. Yeah dogs smell cancer but he is able to do more than that. When something is wrong and I finally fix it he will go over me thoroughly if it is ok he sits and licks my face. If not we keep at it. Cheri > > > > When anyone quotes the scientific literature even if shows failure, > > or states their own contrary experiences, or lays out their rationale > > why a therapy might not be the best choice, this is > > constructive. The concerns might prove to be off the mark, but > > honest science has a way of zeroing in on the reality. To perceive > > this process as " knocking " or " bashing " a therapy could indicate a > > reflexive defensiveness, an emotional/financial investment, a fragile > > ego, or perhaps an unyielding philosophy/indoctrination. All real > > science welcomes thoughtful presentations of weaknesses in a > > questionable view that is posited even if the counter argument is > > exposited in a dry or wry manner. People tend to be blind to holes > > in their own theories and this is part of the reason for the > > existence of the peer-review system. > > > > Both conventional and alternative medicine are rife with fantasists > > and ideologues. They can often be spotted by their insistences, by > > their defensiveness, by their slipshod arguments, by their > > excitability, or by their seething rabidity. There are subscribers > > to this list who are trained in science or gifted in logic; they > > really should consider posting more often. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 Cheri, My cat found my cancer. ar > > I have had some experience with an intuitive. Fortunately or unfortunately my dog seems to be a medical empath (now you all will really think I am off my rocker LOL). > > I got him as a mill dog that was sold for resale When he was a wee pup he was trying to tell me about the cancer. Yeah dogs smell cancer but he is able to do more than that. When something is wrong and I finally fix it he will go over me thoroughly if it is ok he sits and licks my face. If not we keep at it. > > Cheri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 , what exactly would you like to know? I'm no expert, by any means ... I just know what I have experienced. xxoo > > please let me know all you can about you subject in this e mail, > will value it a lot since I need to find all ways possible to us to heal > our body thank you > > > From: melizzard@... > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 > > I think you know that we aren't talking about Rife or ultrasound. > Energy work is in a category all by itself because we are energy. Energy > can be manipulated. So energy workers can access one's energy field to > release restrictions and blockages for a free-er flow and that helps to > correct lots of different things. There is also intrusive energy that > destroys. That can be just as useful as gamma knife radiation if one > responds well to such aggressive energy, which I do not. Actually " sickly > dolorous skies " works just fine for me because I can fill in the shade with > my own imagination. > > I know you are unfamiliar with working with either energy or intuition. > There are things that can be known even though it makes no sense. There are > people getting well all the time when it's supposed to be impossible. It's > the place where miracles exist ... or what people call miracles. They're > only miracles because the conventional mind says it's impossible. But > that's just a limitation of an intellectual mind. I'll stay in my little > unquantifiable world. It seems to be the only thing that works for me > anyway. > xxoo > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 We are not all scientists here. In fact, the scientists here are pretty much the minority, it appears. Speaking strictly for myself, I don't understand half of what you say anyway ... but I do know what I have experienced. You do too. Why can't you just say " congratulations " and concede that there are things that work that you don't understand and, therefore, discard? I mean, to what do you attribute the miracles many of us have experienced? In my case, for example, my disease reversed with Kurt 's treatment. You never really understood the extent of how bad off I was at that point because you hadn't seen me for a good year. But his energy work saved my life. When you see something like that, you're really quick to be pleased if it's from your protocol. But when it's something like energy, you call it " pap " and such. But it WORKED for me, ! To me, that is anything BUT pap. It's everything. xoo > > writes: > > " I wanted to post regarding the bias towards energy work etc. There > are many books filled with studies supporting intention, healing, > energy and the like... " > ----------- > Each of these metaphysical-associated notions must be either real or > not real. If they are not real then they can be enjoyed like any > other fantasy. If they are real then they should be granted full > admission into our shared objective reality. The price of admission > though includes implicit permission to prod them and poke them and > turn them every which way. There must be a willingness to jump > certain hurdles: > > 1. Occam's Razor or the Law of Parsimony. Is there a more simple explanation? > 2. Carl Sagan's dictum: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. > 3. Hume's Self-observation: Is it more likely that a miracle > has occurred or that I have been deceived? > 4. And all of science expects reproducibility: Can we set up an > irrefutable experiment? > > Humans have a most incredible ability to believe most > anything. Nowhere is this more evident than when we examine other > people's religions, yet we put our own cherished beliefs on the same > footing that we grant the hard sciences. We will write and read the > most wonderful books that support our own preconceptions and fume at > the ignorance and closed-mindedness of those horrible hominids who > have not yet evolved enough to accept our obvious truths and revelations. > > But then the method of science is all too often flawed in application > by the annoying human foibles of hubris, superciliousness, rigid > indoctrination, a pointy-headed reductionism, over-reliance on symbol > and metaphor, and deviance wrought by greed, the pursuit of power, > and hidden agendas. > > I think a good starting place for resolution is to assume that half > of what we know is just plain wrong and the other half should forever > remain suspect. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 I know. He seems to be more than that though. Going through high bp drs gave me med after med increased etc. Suprisingly they said it is not supposed to do this LOL. i was about to explode bp way over 200. I finally quit cold turkey. I dont recommend that and went on herbs. He acted better. Went to a chiro who worked on me when that was done he sniffed all over front and back. Doing his deep snuffling he does when he is working. Finally sat and kissed me. Cheri > > > > I have had some experience with an intuitive. Fortunately or unfortunately my dog seems to be a medical empath (now you all will really think I am off my rocker LOL). > > > > I got him as a mill dog that was sold for resale When he was a wee pup he was trying to tell me about the cancer. Yeah dogs smell cancer but he is able to do more than that. When something is wrong and I finally fix it he will go over me thoroughly if it is ok he sits and licks my face. If not we keep at it. > > > > Cheri > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 I definitely believe this. My friend had a dog who begun acting strangely toward her, whimpering and carrying on, being very clingy, until she finally got her C diagnosis, then it all made sense. My dog has been very protective of me also since I began this journey. Dogs are being used to sniff out cancer in a lot of medical studies nowadays! > > I have had some experience with an intuitive. Fortunately or unfortunately my dog seems to be a medical empath (now you all will really think I am off my rocker LOL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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