Re: valerian is good stuff

[Guest guest]

<<In the first place it's spelled with an " e " .

It is not a mood altering drug. You are talking about valium, which " is " a

drug.>>

Yes, it is with an " e " and I did misspell it, but I don't have it mixed up

with Valium, which I have also taken, and mentioned my experience in a

previous post.

Valarien is a drug, just like cannabis, fox glove, tobacco (in the night

shade/potato/tomato/pepper family) and the poppies are.

From: http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates/article.asp?pageType=article &

Id=1487

Hypnotic Herbs

Californian Poppy Eschscholzia californica

Chamomile Matricaria recutita

Hops Humulus lupulus

Jamaican Dogwood Piscidia erythrina

Linden Tilia spp.

Motherwort Leonurus cardiaca

Mugwort Artemisia vulgaris

Pasque Flower Anenome pulsatilla

Passion Flower Passiflora incarnata

Skullcap Scutellaria laterifolia

Valerian Valeriana officinalis

Vervain Verbena officinalis

Wild Lettuce Lactuca virosa

Wood betony Betonica officinalis

<< It is not a mood altering drug. You are talking about valium, which " is "

a drug.>>

It is a mood altering drug. It works on the central nervous system.

From the same site:

" What is a Hypnotic?

Hypnotics are herbal remedies that will help to induce a deep and healing

state of sleep. They have nothing at all to do with hypnotic trances!

How Hypnotics Work

Herbs that help you sleep have modes of action that vary from mild muscle

relaxing properties, through volatile oils that ease psychological tensions,

to remedies that contain strong alkaloids that work directly on the central

nervous system and put you to sleep. Some of the most effective plant

hypnotics are illegal for the very degree of their effectiveness. This

includes the whole range of Opium Poppy derivatives. The remedies mentioned

here are entirely safe and have no addictive properties. "

That last statements are not true. Valerian is addictive and when used

improperly can induce all sorts of side effect including cardiac palpations.

Just because valerian isn't illegal, does not take it out of the realm of a

mood altering, hypnotic, central nervous system affecting drug.

<< I had severe pain at night but started drinking valerian like I said

before but a lot of it. I kept it thick and rich and drank it constantly for

days. The toothache didn't go away until the middle of the night and then I

slept well. I think it acts slowly because it works systemically. Also that

toothache never came back. That was two years ago and I still have my tooth

and it's fine!>>

I think it's great that you saved your tooth, but nowhere have I found it in

the herb books that I have, that it is to be used for pain. It is a mood

altering hypnotic drug that isn't illegal like cannabis and poppies. (Though

you can find legal poppies, the California variety for example, listed above

and in some herbal books.)

, valerian ain't food. When you use it, you are medicating yourself. If

you think that you aren't self-medicating, then you are lying to yourself.

Anyone taking aspirin (a synthesized element originating in the bark of birch

trees) without the direction of a health care advisor, is self medicating.

Hooray for cheating the dentist and hooray for looking for and finding your

own solution.

Jay

[Guest guest]

Jay,

Lullabyes are hypnotic, are you going to demonize those too?

Jeanne

[Guest guest]

<<Jay,

Lullabyes are hypnotic, are you going to demonize those too?

Jeanne>>

Come on now. Valerian is in the same class as heroin (as written in the

herbal book that I quoted). You're really stretching it to put lullabies

there too. And demonize? Is pointing out that it is addictive, (like

caffeine) and that it has been linked to 50+ deaths and over 1000

complications is demonizing? It was originally suggested that valerian be

used as a pain killer and it isn't a pain killer. If you really want an

herbal pain killer that really works for cancer then use cannabis. It works,

and many folks use it without the side effects of valerian.

Alternative medicine folks slam prescription drugs ad nausium, but when

someone points out difficulties with an over-the-counter herb it evidently

disturbs some sacred cows. I love it, because there are no sacred cows.

Jay

[Guest guest]

Jay,

The point I was trying to make is if you pick deep, hard and

persistant enough anything can be potentially deadly, that we all know.

But when the medical profession kills over 300,000 people each year, the

couple a odd deaths here and there from alternative medicine really pales.

And hey, none of us is getting out this life alive in the end, and what does

all this have to do with gall bladder health.

Jeanne

[Guest guest]

<<Jay,

The point I was trying to make is if you pick deep, hard and

persistant enough anything can be potentially deadly, that we all know.

But when the medical profession kills over 300,000 people each year, the

couple a odd deaths here and there from alternative medicine really pales.

And hey, none of us is getting out this life alive in the end, and what does

all this have to do with gall bladder health.

Jeanne>>

Hi Jeanne:

Yes doctors kill, but not 300,000 a year. I have seen figures from 60 to

90,000, depending on whether you use AMA type of numbers or AMA detractor

numbers.

We don't know how many the alternative practitioners kill, or more than

likely, make more ill -- because statistics rarely cover that. Thank God

alternative practitioners don't have access to the scalpel or they would be

right up there with the AMA.

" And hey, none of us is getting out this life alive in the end... "

I agree 100% yet many people in their paranoid pursuit of " health " really

believe they are, and that's often times where quacktioners enter the picture

whether it is with an MD degree or a mail order degree. Many, many people

refuse to face their own mortality and are not prepared for that eventual day

when their bodies will cease to exist. I myself was immortal until I was 30.

By that age I have been through many life threatening conditions from combat

to an air disaster and just figured I " wasn't meant to go. " It wasn't until

about age 35 or 40 that I even cared about my health. I don't care when I

die, but I do care how I live until that day - WHICH IS WHY I FLUSH!!

As far as what pertains to the list. I rarely respond to something off the

gallstone/liver topic unless it has been brought up on the list.

I'm sure that not everyone has read all of my posts, but if you have you will

find that I go with what works, traditional or alternative, and if valerian

works for some then fine, but be aware that there are limits to what it has

to offer, just as there are limits (and loads of misapplications) to

prescription medications. I am seeking my own truth too, and when I see

truths that others accept and I feel that it violates either logic or good

health (which is really what the list is about), I will respond to it.

Jay

[Guest guest]

Jay,

Hate to correct you but it was in JAMA or New England Journel of

Medicne not long ago but the medical profession is the THIRD leading cause of

death to U.S citizens, killing over 250,000 people per year(which is probably

an under statement). That's a fact.

I'm done with this subject, Gotta go take some valerian and chill out.

Jeanne

[Guest guest]

> The point I was trying to make is if you pick deep, hard and

> persistant enough anything can be potentially deadly, that we all know.

> But when the medical profession kills over 300,000 people each year, the

> couple a odd deaths here and there from alternative medicine really pales.

> And hey, none of us is getting out this life alive in the end, and what

> does

> all this have to do with gall bladder health.

> Jeanne

>

____________________

True, Jeanne, someone can die from drinking too much water too quickly. A

lady in Houston did this years ago and died a very painful death. I think it

made her heart explode. So we're all going to die. No one is exempt from

that.

As far as Valerian or whatever spelling that it is, I take it about every

night. Beats the heck out of insomnia.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Hate to correct you but it was in JAMA or New England Journel of

Medicne not long ago but the medical profession is the THIRD leading cause of

death to U.S citizens, killing over 250,000 people per year(which is probably

an under statement). That's a fact.

I'm done with this subject, Gotta go take some valerian and chill out.

________________________

Yep, I remember reading that too!

Susie

[Guest guest]

<<Jay,

Hate to correct you but it was in JAMA or New England Journel of

Medicne not long ago but the medical profession is the THIRD leading cause of

death to U.S citizens, killing over 250,000 people per year(which is probably

an under statement). That's a fact.

I'm done with this subject, Gotta go take some valerian and chill out.

Jeanne>>

Figures don't lie, but liars figure. All the sites which have that

" headline " use the following JAMA statistics:

* 12,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery

* 7,000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals

* 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals

* 80,000 deaths/year from nosocomial infections in hospitals

* 106,000 deaths/year from adverse effects of medications

These numbers are plastered all over the alternative web sites which state

that doctors kill 250,000 per year. First of all they can't add - the above

numbers add up to 225,000. Far, far too many in all categories. But if you

look at the numbers you see that doctors account for 19,000 due to errors.

(MSNBC recently reported that doctors are responsible for 60,000 deaths a

year, that's the number I used.) The remaining deaths are from hospital

errors and hospital infections, and from medications prescribed to patients

which had an adverse effect. That last one includes all terminally ill

people who were treated with medication, as are 95 per cent of all terminally

ill people. It also fails to report how many " terminally ill " people were

saved from death through medication or other doctor prescribed procedures.

So the banner that many of the alternative quacktitioners headline of

" 250,000 deaths a year by doctors " is a flat out lie.

No where on the Internet have I EVER found a quacktitioner pointing out the

24% reduction of heart disease over a 10 year period or a 2 to 3% decline in

cancer death rates per year. This results in the life extension of thousands

of people each year, in spite of our continued increase of obesity and

overweight in general. The quactitioner would rather you bow down and kiss

their shoes than to admit that modern medical treatment is beneficial. And

they want your money in the process.

I have taken valerian for a long time as a sleep aid but have recently

discontinued it on discovering both its addiction properties and its heart

damaging properties. Even an herbal healing book that I have suggests you

take it for no more than 2 weeks at a time. Take it long enough as a sleep

aid, and you may wake up where you didn't expect to be.

Jay

[Guest guest]

> From: gingsong@...

> the medical profession is the THIRD leading cause of death to U.S citizens,

killing over

250,000 people per year(which is probably an under statement). That's a fact.

> I'm done with this subject, Gotta go take some valerian and chill out.

Jeanne

Oh yeah me too. lol

[Guest guest]

> From: JayTownsend@...

> Take it long enough as a sleep aid, and you may wake up where you didn't

expect to be.

I was wondering how I got here... hehe

[Guest guest]

Jay

You just last to have the last word, right or wrong. lol

Jeanne

[Guest guest]

I feel that valerian is a useful herb when used properly. Remember -

nothing in life is good when it has " TOO MUCH " in front of it.

Anyone trying ANY herb should be responsible, do research and find

out what are the proper dosages for their condition and body weight.

Suzanne

[Guest guest]

I agree Jeanne - let's quit this subject - like you sense of humor!

Think I'll also go and partake a bit of the root.....

Suzanne

> I'm done with this subject, Gotta go take some valerian and chill

out.

> Jeanne

[Guest guest]

<<Jay

You just last to have the last word, right or wrong. lol

Jeanne>>

Glad you find it a kick. So do I. Don't forget your valerian. But if you

really want to sleep, go to the cupboard and grab some nutmeg. No more than

a teaspoon (first time). The astral experiences (dreams) are fantastic, and

it's good for the digestive system.

Jay

[Guest guest]

So what your saying is MEDICINE or MEDICAL TREATMENT kills 225,000 a

year. Still scary in my book. Dawn

And yes, I do go to Dr.s on occasion when I can't find my own answers.

>

> Figures don't lie, but liars figure. All the sites which have that

> " headline " use the following JAMA statistics:

>

> * 12,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery

>

> * 7,000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals

>

> * 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals

>

> * 80,000 deaths/year from nosocomial infections in hospitals

>

> * 106,000 deaths/year from adverse effects of medications

>

> These numbers are plastered all over the alternative web sites

which state

> that doctors kill 250,000 per year. First of all they can't add -

the above

> numbers add up to 225,000. Far, far too many in all categories.