Re: New cholesterol guidelines for converting healthy people int...

[Guest guest]

<< Most people survive even a major heart attack, many with few or no

symptoms after recovery.>>

Regarding the " ...with few or no symptoms after recovery.. " - where does the

support for that come from? Please cite statistics. A heart attack is not

like a bout with the flu. And to my knowledge, no one has ever recovered

100%.

<< But not only does the panel exaggerate the risk of coronary disease and

the relevance of high cholesterol, it also ignores a wealth of contradictory

evidence. The panel statements reveal that its members have little clinical

experience and lack basic knowledge of the medical literature, or worse, they

ignore or misquote all studies that are contrary to their view.>>

If the panel exaggerated " the risk of coronary disease the relevance of high

cholesterol, " then where does this writer of this statement support THEIR

statement? " The panel statements reveal that its members have little

clinical experience and lack basic knowledge of the medical literature, or

worse, they ignore or misquote all studies that are contrary to their view. "

Where is the support for this statement? Especially the statement about the

" ...little clinical experience...? "

<< (Regarding the risk factors) Test yourself and your family! I guess that

most of you " suffer " from the metabolic syndrome. And this combination, says

the panel, conveys a similar risk for future heart disease as for people who

already have coronary heart disease.

Luckily, it is not true.>>

Not true? On what basis is it not true?

Regarding the studies that discount the role of cholesterol, many other

studies have found it to be a very significant factor.

An autopsy study of more than 200 U. S. servicemen killed in the Korean War

found that 30% of them had arteriosclerosis, with some of them having

arteries that were completely blocked. Their average age was - 22. This

same study was applied to an equivalent number of Korean servicemen who were

killed, and there was no arteriosclerosis found in them. That was in a world

before Mcs, before KFC, and before all fast food restaurants. A

similar study of U. S. soldiers killed in combat in Vietnam found that 70%

had arteriosclerosis. Regardless how you slice it, the high fat diet of

Americans kill not only with heart disease, but with added cancer risks and

many other illnesses as well, and cholesterol count is an indicator of

lifestyle.

I agree wholeheartedly that medicating for any of the mentioned risk factors

is a poor medical practice, but the damn patients need to get off their butts

and exercise and learn to eat properly, which is what the medical profession

is telling them, and they aren't doing it. That's one reason MDs (over)

medicate - because patients don't follow sensible lifestyle advice. That

also applies to alternative medical supplements. You can't just take

supplements, you have to change lifestyle. In some cases, not even changing

lifestyle works. Your genes click in and you are dead! (If you don't like

your genetic make up, choose better parents the next time around.)

Jim Fixx is considered to be the " father " of modern running. He had quit

smoking several years before he started running, and began running when he

weighed 220 pounds. By the time he wrote his classic, " The Complete Book of

Running " he was down to 159 pounds, had run six Boston Marathons (only the

best marathoners are allowed to run Boston), and ran 10 miles every day. At

age 52, while running, he died of a massive heart attack. The autopsy showed

that his arteries were clogged. Diet is just as important - if not more so,

than exercise.

The " McDougall " program as operated at St. Helena California, reverses heart

disease. It is accepted by 40 insurance companies as an alternative to

by-pass surgery. The Ornish program does the same. Neither McDougall or

Ornish allow for fat to be added to the diet in their vegetarian programs

(though Ornish does allow the animal products of some egg white and non-fat

yogurt/cottage cheese). These programs have been investigated with case

histories reviewed and results verified. These are low fat programs, with

no-fat added. (Like wrote, all food has fat in it, but the non-fat

programs are no added fat.) If followed faithfully, their programs range

from 12-14% fat. For those who believe that they need fat every day, that's

true, but you get it from normal healthy food. You do not need added fat.

The Okinawa diet/program yields the highest longevity of any society in the

world along with the least amount of illness in old age. The 25-year study

that followed the diet and lifestyle of these people found a diet that was

25% fat, so you don't really have to be as restrictive as McDougall/Ornish in

order to eat healthy. However, if you look at the Okinawa diet, you will

find that it is a high fruit and vegetable diet with a little meat in some

meals - and NO CALCIUM in the water. Also, the oil they do use is a mono

oil.

Mis-information by people claiming to be a part of alternative medicine is no

different than mis-information that comes from the medical community, and in

fact there is abundantly more that comes from people claiming to be

" alternative medicine " practioners than traditional medical practioners.

Alternative medicine has an enormous amount of sound basis in fact, supported

not only by good studies but real results. When good medical research is

erroneously slammed, it just gives the quack chasers more legitimate material

to work with.

Jay

[Guest guest]

<<Here come a few examples of the panel's false statements.

As an argument for using cholesterol-lowering drugs the panel claims that

twenty percent of patients with coronary heart disease have a new heart

attack after ten years. But to reach that number any minor symptom without

clinical significance is included.

Most people survive even a major heart attack, many with few or no symptoms

after recovery. What matters is how many die and this is much less than

twenty percent.>>

More ammunition regarding the totally untrue statement(s) above.

Note below that over 40% of the people who have a heart attack, die from it.

There are over 12 million people in the U. S. living with either angina,

post-heart attack damage, or other forms of coronary heart disease, Please

inform them that they are " ...with few or no symptoms after recovery. "

Also note that from 1989 to 1999 the death rate (U. S.) from coronary heart

disease DECLINED 24.0 percent! MD slammers never quote statistics like that!

Purely and simply put, that astounding decline is from better and more

advanced medical treatment, regardless of how you wish to slice it. The

Framingham Heart Study is also referred to in this report, though very

differently than in the original post.

Here's to better health trough proper diet and exercise - it's available to

everyone, without medication or supplements, and comes free of charge.

Jay

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4591

1999 statistics for the United States show that coronary heart disease (CHD)

is the single leading cause of death in America. CHD causes heart attack and

angina.

Mortality -- 529,659 deaths in the United States in 1999 (one of every 5

deaths).

Incidence -- 1,100,000 new and recurrent cases of coronary attack per year;

over 40 percent die. [National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute's

Atherosclerotic Risk in Communities (ARIC) Study, 1987-94.]

Prevalence -- 12,600,000 victims of angina (chest pain due to coronary heart

disease), heart attack and other forms of coronary heart disease are still

living (6,200,000 males and 6,400,000 females).

From 1989 to 1999 the death rate from coronary heart disease declined 24.0

percent, but the actual number of deaths declined only 6.8 percent. (The

first percentage, is age-adjusted to the year 2000 population standard. )

Estimates are that 6,400,000 people in the United States suffer from angina.

An estimated 400,000 new cases of stable angina occur each year. (Framingham

Heart Study, National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute)

.....a little more info at the site.

[Guest guest]

The fact is there are groups on both sides claiming they have the

answers and I don't think those answers are always right for every

person. I strongly believe that simple carbs and sugar are the root

of most health problems. When I have gone on lowfat diets, I have

always had a rebound effect where cravings are completely out of

control and I regain anything I have lost. Now that I have cut out

99% of simple carbs and sugar and increased my fat intake, my

cravings are gone and I feel better than I ever have. I am eating

healthy ,natural fats. Not to mention I have easily lost 25 pounds.

The only real exercise I get is house and garden work. I am hoping to

add more to my routine though. I have not had blood work to check my

levels, but I can do that and find out. Dawn

>

> Mis-information by people claiming to be a part of alternative

medicine is no

> different than mis-information that comes from the medical

community, and in

> fact there is abundantly more that comes from people claiming to be

> " alternative medicine " practioners than traditional medical

practioners.

> Alternative medicine has an enormous amount of sound basis in fact,

supported

> not only by good studies but real results. When good medical

research is

> erroneously slammed, it just gives the quack chasers more

legitimate material

> to work with.

>

> Jay

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The only thing wrong with this logic is fruit. Fruit is full of

vitamins/minerals/fiber and ... sugar. And is terrible, just TERRBILE for

anyone like me, with reactive hypoglycemia. So I don't think it's just the

sugars with me at least, it is my body's regulation of the sugars that is not

working properly.

....

>

> From: " azdmarie " <nortons@...>

> Date: 2002/06/17 Mon PM 02:26:46 EST

> gallstones

> Subject: Re: New cholesterol guidelines for converting healthy

people int...

>

> The fact is there are groups on both sides claiming they have the

> answers and I don't think those answers are always right for every

> person. I strongly believe that simple carbs and sugar are the root

> of most health problems. When I have gone on lowfat diets, I have

> always had a rebound effect where cravings are completely out of

> control and I regain anything I have lost. Now that I have cut out

> 99% of simple carbs and sugar and increased my fat intake, my

> cravings are gone and I feel better than I ever have. I am eating

> healthy ,natural fats. Not to mention I have easily lost 25 pounds.

> The only real exercise I get is house and garden work. I am hoping to

> add more to my routine though. I have not had blood work to check my

> levels, but I can do that and find out. Dawn

>

> >

> > Mis-information by people claiming to be a part of alternative

> medicine is no

> > different than mis-information that comes from the medical

> community, and in

> > fact there is abundantly more that comes from people claiming to be

> > " alternative medicine " practioners than traditional medical

> practioners.

> > Alternative medicine has an enormous amount of sound basis in fact,

> supported

> > not only by good studies but real results. When good medical

> research is

> > erroneously slammed, it just gives the quack chasers more

> legitimate material

> > to work with.

> >

> > Jay

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Then for you, I would say, " don't eat fruit. " I am able to tolerate

it and only eat it at breakfast time. Dawn

> The only thing wrong with this logic is fruit. Fruit is full of

vitamins/minerals/fiber and ... sugar. And is terrible, just

TERRBILE for anyone like me, with reactive hypoglycemia. So I don't

think it's just the sugars with me at least, it is my body's

regulation of the sugars that is not working properly.

>

> ...

> >

[Guest guest]

> The only thing wrong with this logic is fruit. Fruit is full of

> vitamins/minerals/fiber and ... sugar. And is terrible, just

> TERRBILE for anyone like me, with reactive hypoglycemia.

, I struggle with this too, used to be worse, has

stablized a bit, and even when if really bad doesn't bother

me as much...though I don't make a habit of being

really bad with my diet. The fruit that was suggested to

me as the best is Granny Apples, they are less sweet.

The sugar in fruit should be considered for hypoglycemic,

but also remember that the sugars in fruit are fructose

and don't assimilate as processed white sugar. Eating it

with something else, like a protein (ie cheese, yogurt,

etc.) will help balance it and it will not be assimilated as

quickly...others feel differently about this combination

of foods, but it works for me.

L. Meydrech, CN

http://nutritionist.tripod.com/gallbladder.html ~ My Flushes

http://nutritionist.tripod.com ~ Journey to Health & Auctions

" A cheerful heart is good medicine " Prov. 17:22a

[Guest guest]

Right, I don't eat fruit but hope to someday.

But my problem is if sugar is the problem of illness, how does that explain

the fact that fruit is a sugar basically but is so good for you.

That's why I think there msut be more to it. Don't get me wrong - I think

sugar is terrible as is white bread and white rice. But something more is

wrong if a person can't even tolerate an apple w/o a reaction.

----- Original Message -----

From: " azdmarie " <nortons@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 2:53 PM

Subject: Re: New cholesterol guidelines for converting healthy

people int...

> Then for you, I would say, " don't eat fruit. " I am able to tolerate

> it and only eat it at breakfast time. Dawn

>

>

>

> > The only thing wrong with this logic is fruit. Fruit is full of

> vitamins/minerals/fiber and ... sugar. And is terrible, just

> TERRBILE for anyone like me, with reactive hypoglycemia. So I don't

> think it's just the sugars with me at least, it is my body's

> regulation of the sugars that is not working properly.

> >

> > ...

> > >

>

>

>

>

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