Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 That is a difficult one...fermenting meat and fish is very difficult. (There was a post I started here on fermenting fish..)..prone to spoiling very quickly with harmfull bacteria if not done properly under control conditions...i.e. it has to be kept at low temperature ...there are butchers who keep meat steaks under low temperature for 28 days in a special environment then cook it as a normal stake...I have not tasted it..(dont eat read meat) ..but people say it is very tender...But that is more Enzyme action then fermentation.. There are loads of enzymes in raw meat...and the trick is to allow the enzymes to pre-digest the meat without the nasty stuff growing as well... for example the lebanese have Raw Kibbeh..that is lamp meat pounded for few hours with burgal ( broken wheat) ...the pounding breaks the meat cell walls and allow the enzymes to act on the meat...they then put it in the fridge for 24 hours and eat it raw with some pickle... Normally meat is done through enzymes, (the meat industry call it Tenderising)..you can buy Tenderising Enzymes...or if you get some papaya and put it in a blender, and put in the fridge with your meat steak, after 24-48 hours, all the meat would have disolved away by the action of Enzymes in Papaya...called Papain. It is very powerfull..it disolves 10 times its weight..all the proteins quickly... > > Hi there, > > Has anybody on this list tried fermenting meat? If so, how do you do it? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Wow, awesome. Perhaps you could throw some meat in a fermenting crock of kefirkraut? Nah, sounds like a bad idea. I must try the papaya thing. On 4/10/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@...> wrote: > > That is a difficult one...fermenting meat and fish is very difficult. > (There was a post I started here on fermenting fish..)..prone to > spoiling very quickly with harmfull bacteria if not done properly > under control conditions...i.e. it has to be kept at low > temperature ...there are butchers who keep meat steaks under low > temperature for 28 days in a special environment then cook it as a > normal stake...I have not tasted it..(dont eat read meat) ..but > people say it is very tender...But that is more Enzyme action then > fermentation.. > There are loads of enzymes in raw meat...and the trick is to allow > the enzymes to pre-digest the meat without the nasty stuff growing as > well... > for example the lebanese have Raw Kibbeh..that is lamp meat pounded > for few hours with burgal ( broken wheat) ...the pounding breaks the > meat cell walls and allow the enzymes to act on the meat...they then > put it in the fridge for 24 hours and eat it raw with some pickle... > Normally meat is done through enzymes, (the meat industry call it > Tenderising)..you can buy Tenderising Enzymes...or if you get some > papaya and put it in a blender, and put in the fridge with your meat > steak, after 24-48 hours, all the meat would have disolved away by > the action of Enzymes in Papaya...called Papain. It is very > powerfull..it disolves 10 times its weight..all the proteins > quickly... > > > > > > > Hi there, > > > > Has anybody on this list tried fermenting meat? If so, how do you > do it? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 There are some here who put fish in Kimchi...:-) But there are some who dry and cure meat strips.. Curing is basically adding salts plus curing spices to the meat...and the traditional way is to hang this in a dry place for few days till it dries..this is curing..I dont think there is much fermentation that goes on there.Probably some enzyme activity.now they do it in air driers for 12 hours...the south africans call it Biltong.. The Germans cure meat as well...(German Sausages )...But curing is not fermentation..I guess some small amount of fermentation goes on there...there is very little carbohydrates in meat that can be converted to lactic acid.. I think the Eskimos traditionally burried meat and fish in the snow for quite a long time and then dug it out to eat...but again..its mainly enzymes that break down the meat..and not so much bacteria...maybe little amount of bacteria as well... > > > > > > Hi there, > > > > > > Has anybody on this list tried fermenting meat? If so, how do you > > do it? > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 I recently came across a pollack Kimchi (mostly pollack and no cabbage) recipe in a book of mine.. looks pretty good..can post if anyone is interested.. Beau On 4/10/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@...> wrote: > > There are some here who put fish in Kimchi...:-) > But there are some who dry and cure meat strips.. > Curing is basically adding salts plus curing spices to the meat...and > the traditional way is to hang this in a dry place for few days till > it dries..this is curing..I dont think there is much fermentation > that goes on there.Probably some enzyme activity.now they do it in > air driers for 12 hours...the south africans call it Biltong.. The > Germans cure meat as well...(German Sausages )...But curing is not > fermentation..I guess some small amount of fermentation goes on > there...there is very little carbohydrates in meat that can be > converted to lactic acid.. > I think the Eskimos traditionally burried meat and fish in the snow > for quite a long time and then dug it out to eat...but again..its > mainly enzymes that break down the meat..and not so much > bacteria...maybe little amount of bacteria as well... > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi there, > > > > > > > > Has anybody on this list tried fermenting meat? If so, how do > you > > > do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 In Norway now a bacteria used to ferment sausages is being researched on to see if it really is a beneficial bacteria that will help people with irritable colon syndrom (or whatever is the word?). I think it is too short research though: three weeks capsules with the bacteria or three weeks placebo, then switch. They will test stomach and poo and write down symptoms. They are just starting it now. I think it is called morrpølse. Tove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Dirk Coetsee wrote: > Wow, awesome. Perhaps you could throw some meat in a fermenting crock of > kefirkraut? Nah, sounds like a bad idea. I must try the papaya thing. > Not a bad idea at all. I've thrown fish in with my kimchi, works great! Also used meat broth to make kimchi. The proteins do ferment, and add flavor (probably making glutamates in the process). I think I tried raw meat a couple of times. Adding meat to cabbage is easy, and it ferments easily, esp. if you add it after the cabbage has fermented a little already. I stopped mainly because it was too *filling*. Kimchi with fish is a meal, plain and simple. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 kefir_king wrote: > There are some here who put fish in Kimchi...:-) > But there are some who dry and cure meat strips.. > Curing is basically adding salts plus curing spices to the meat...and > the traditional way is to hang this in a dry place for few days till > it dries..this is curing..I dont think there is much fermentation > that goes on there.Probably some enzyme activity.now they do it in > air driers for 12 hours...the south africans call it Biltong.. The > Germans cure meat as well...(German Sausages )...But curing is not > fermentation..I guess some small amount of fermentation goes on > there...there is very little carbohydrates in meat that can be > converted to lactic acid.. Actually a lot of sausage IS lacto fermented. If you read the label, it will say " lactic starter culture " on the better brands. There is enzymatic stuff happening too, and mold flavor also. What I do though is put the raw meat in kimchi juice for a few days (in the fridge) then dry it into jerky. It tastes a lot like salami. It IS fermented, but it's also dried. And very tender. And tasty! But a lot easier, and safer, then fermenting salami, which is one of those things that can be toxic if you don't do it right. Sticking some raw meat in kimchi juice isn't really risky (the juice is already acidic, so the baddies can't grow). -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 kefir king wrote: > I think you will find that the fermented sausages are added a mixture > of salt, spice and SUGAR...it is the added sugar which is converted by > lactic acid fermentation to acidify the final product...I am really > not sure that sticking piece of meat in kimchi will ferment the meat > (did you see any bubbling?)..maybe it is the same as sticking it in a > jar of vinegar...it tenderises it ... I dunno, it's a good question ... when you ferment salami, are the lactobacilli eating the meat, or just the sugar? Whatever happens, it's NOT just acidification, because acidified meat just doesn't taste the same. Maybe the enzymes from the LAB break down the proteins. Maybe other bacteria get co-hosted that eat proteins? Probably not, because the proteins don't seem to break down too much. Anyway, kimchi-meat tastes and looks a lot like salami-meat, so my belief is that the process is similar. As for bubbling ... my kimchi doesn't bubble much unless it's got sugar in it, and even then it only really bubbles the first day or two. I even put it in a plastic bag to check. Very little gas. My kefir doesn't bubble much either. I tend to think the bubbling is more a sign of yeast than bacteria. Adding some sugar to the mix isn't a bad idea though! The Koreans often add sugar or fruit to kimchi, which does help the process (and they are the ones that tend to add fish to the kimchi too). Also it might depend on just *how* fermented the cabbage or kimchi juice is to start with. Mine typically is not fully fermented, there is carb left in it. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I don't think sugar is added to salami in general. I've seen recipes for making salami that don't include any. Weird. I wonder if EM culture can eat meat? On 4/11/06, Heidi <heidis@...> wrote: > > kefir king wrote: > > I think you will find that the fermented sausages are added a mixture > > of salt, spice and SUGAR...it is the added sugar which is converted by > > lactic acid fermentation to acidify the final product...I am really > > not sure that sticking piece of meat in kimchi will ferment the meat > > (did you see any bubbling?)..maybe it is the same as sticking it in a > > jar of vinegar...it tenderises it ... > > I dunno, it's a good question ... when you ferment salami, are the > lactobacilli eating the meat, or just the sugar? Whatever happens, > it's NOT just acidification, because acidified meat just doesn't taste > the same. Maybe the enzymes from the LAB break down the > proteins. Maybe other bacteria get co-hosted that eat proteins? > Probably not, because the proteins don't seem to break down > too much. Anyway, kimchi-meat tastes and looks a lot like > salami-meat, so my belief is that the process is similar. > > As for bubbling ... my kimchi doesn't bubble much > unless it's got sugar in it, and even then it only really bubbles > the first day or two. I even put it in a plastic bag to check. Very > little gas. My kefir doesn't bubble much either. I tend to think > the bubbling is more a sign of yeast than bacteria. > > Adding some sugar to the mix isn't a bad idea though! > The Koreans often add sugar or fruit to kimchi, which does help > the process (and they are the ones that tend to add > fish to the kimchi too). > > Also it might depend on just *how* fermented the cabbage > or kimchi juice is to start with. Mine typically is not fully > fermented, there is carb left in it. > > -- Heidi > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 From " The Recipe For Living Without Disease " by Aajonus Vonderplanitz: " Place 1 volume-pint of raw meat, chopped into bite-sized pieces, into a glass quart (32 ounces) jar; equal air- and meat-space. Place Ball jar lid on jar tightly and place in refrigerator. I suggest three jars be prepared; one with raw red meat, one with natural raw fowl and one with ocean wild-caught raw fish. Every 3 to 4 days take the jars outdoors, completely remove lids and wave the jars in the air to exchange the air inside each jar. Return lids to jars, tighten and return to refrigeration. After 4 weeks, you may begin to eat one marble-sized piece once or twice every week. There are approximately 17 stages of bacterial developments. Airing the meat is required to progress bacter through the stages. If you don't replace the air in the jar every 3 to 4 days, the bacteria will not progress. If you go on a trip, when you return, recommence airing the meat so that it will resume progress through all of the bacterial stages. To make eating high raw meat easier, take it outside (or your home will stink for up to 36 hours), close your nostrils with fingers or swimmers nose clip, and eat. You can swallow it without chewing but chewing makes it more effective to lift spirits. The odor is terrible, but the texture is palatable. If you do not like the aftertaste, since mouth with lemon or lime but do not swallow the lemon or lime. Lemon and lime are antibacterial, especially lime. If you swallow the citrus juice, it is likely that you will experience little benefit. I have eaten high raw meat this way that was aged up to 1-year old with excellent benefits when I needed it. If suffering depression or chronic constipation, I suggest eating high raw meat twice a week. Do NOT eat large amounts of high meat while on a weight-loss cycle. " He also states in the book that " people who have cancer help reverse it by eating high raw meat. Stargazer wrote: > What is " high-meat " Dana? > > ~Amber > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Thanks for the explanation Dana - very interesting. ~Amber -- Re: [ ] High Meat From " The Recipe For Living Without Disease " by Aajonus Vonderplanitz: " Place 1 volume-pint of raw meat, chopped into bite-sized pieces, into a glass quart (32 ounces) jar; equal air- and meat-space. Place Ball jar lid on jar tightly and place in refrigerator. I suggest three jars be prepared; one with raw red meat, one with natural raw fowl and one with ocean wild-caught raw fish. Every 3 to 4 days take the jars outdoors, completely remove lids and wave the jars in the air to exchange the air inside each jar. Return lids to jars, tighten and return to refrigeration. After 4 weeks, you may begin to eat one marble-sized piece once or twice every week. There are approximately 17 stages of bacterial developments. Airing the meat is required to progress bacter through the stages. If you don't replace the air in the jar every 3 to 4 days, the bacteria will not progress. If you go on a trip, when you return, recommence airing the meat so that it will resume progress through all of the bacterial stages. To make eating high raw meat easier, take it outside (or your home will stink for up to 36 hours), close your nostrils with fingers or swimmers nose clip, and eat. You can swallow it without chewing but chewing makes it more effective to lift spirits. The odor is terrible, but the texture is palatable. If you do not like the aftertaste, since mouth with lemon or lime but do not swallow the lemon or lime. Lemon and lime are antibacterial, especially lime. If you swallow the citrus juice, it is likely that you will experience little benefit. I have eaten high raw meat this way that was aged up to 1-year old with excellent benefits when I needed it. If suffering depression or chronic constipation, I suggest eating high raw meat twice a week. Do NOT eat large amounts of high meat while on a weight-loss cycle. " He also states in the book that " people who have cancer help reverse it by eating high raw meat. Stargazer wrote: > What is " high-meat " Dana? > > ~Amber > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Very. But Edwin has me wanting to try it now that he told us it's a probiotic . ... . Lol. I just don't understand how eating rotten meat could be good for you. I can't imagine that any of our ancestors ever ate it. But I guess that Aajonus tried to kill himself one day by eating rotten meat, and that by the next day, instead of being dead, he felt better than he had ever felt in his life. Edwin, fess up . . . .Have YOU ever tried it?? Anyone? ----------- On Tue, Jan 13, Stargazer wrote: > Thanks for the explanation Dana - very interesting. > ~Amber > > From: Dana Herbert > From " The Recipe For Living Without Disease " by Aajonus Vonderplanitz: > " Place 1 volume-pint of raw meat, chopped into bite-sized pieces, into a glass quart (32 ounces) jar; equal air- and meat-space. Place Ball jar lid on jar tightly and place in refrigerator. I suggest three jars be prepared; one with raw red meat, one with natural raw fowl and one with ocean wild-caught raw fish. Every 3 to 4 days take the jars outdoors, completely remove lids and wave the jars in the air to exchange the air inside each jar. Return lids to jars, tighten and return to refrigeration. After 4 weeks, you may begin to eat one marble-sized piece once or twice every week. > There are approximately 17 stages of bacterial developments. Airing the meat is required to progress bacteria through the stages. If you don't replace the air in the jar every 3 to 4 days, the bacteria will not progress....To make eating high raw meat easier, take it outside (or your home will stink for up to 36 hours), close your nostrils with fingers or swimmers nose clip, and eat....... > He also states in the book that " people who have cancer help reverse it by eating high raw meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hi Dana, Yes I made high meat in my refrigerator and made it stink. I put it in the ref and aired it out everyday for 1-2 months. It didn't taste bad. In fact I liked it. I ate it all in 1 week. I made it from beef sirloin. It reminded me of blue cheese or any of those wonderful rotten french / italian cheeses. Best wishes, Edwin Dana Herbert wrote: > > Edwin, fess up . . . .Have YOU ever tried it?? > > Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Does it make you feel better? Are there any nasty side effects, ie., nausea, diarrhea, etc? I have nothing but good things to say about having added raw milk, eggs and cheese to my diet. I think that some of my illness has to do with malnutrition from being a vegan/vegetarian for most of my life. My vitamin D levels very once a very low 11 ng/mL's and my total cholesterol was only 119. Low immune system (C3/C4, IgM). I'm sure my K2 is way down there. My favorable reaction to the raw milk made me think that probiotics are extremely important. Much more important that I already knew they were, and even question whether most of the probiotic supplements out there even work, and if they do, how well? There is nothing like the real thing . . . . That's funny . . . . my sister lives in Paris and when I was telling her that I am eating raw cheese now and that the taste is very strong, so I simply shred it over my salads, she said that's how the French like their cheese . . . . really stinky! On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Edwin Casimero < eesc@...> wrote: > Hi Dana, > > Yes I made high meat in my refrigerator and made it stink. > I put it in the ref and aired it out everyday for 1-2 months. > It didn't taste bad. > In fact I liked it. I ate it all in 1 week. I made it from beef sirloin. > It reminded me of blue cheese or any of those wonderful rotten french / > italian cheeses. > > Best wishes, > Edwin > > > Dana Herbert wrote: > > > > Edwin, fess up . . . .Have YOU ever tried it?? > > > > Anyone? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hi Dana, I've gotten rid of all my yeast problems years ago with vco detoxing http://tinyurl.com/vcodetox , so I didn't observe any immediate reaction after eating high meat. My wife has yeast problems and I offered high meat to her. She said no. She would rather take the expensive commercial OMX capsules imported from Japan. I don't do well with raw milk either. I experimented with it too. Raw goat milk, raw cow's milk, raw carabao's milk. It all makes me gassy painfully. Aajonus and the primal dieters think it is all detox. I think there are people who are not benefited by dairy even if raw, I may be one of them, my ethnicity is mixed breed Filipino. Or maybe the raw dairy in my area is different from the raw dairy Aajonus gets. My version of raw eating is the raw paleolithic diet variety - high fat. See http://www.rawpaleodiet.com and http://www.rawpaleoforum.com (raw organic not so sweet / fatty fruit , raw organic / wild animal food, few raw organic veggies). High meat is common, recommended fair in the raw paleo diet community. Best wishes, Edwin Dana Herbert wrote: > > Does it make you feel better? > Are there any nasty side effects, ie., nausea, diarrhea, etc? > I have nothing but good things to say about having added raw milk, > eggs and cheese to my diet. I think that some of my illness has to do with malnutrition from being a vegan/vegetarian for most of my life. My vitamin D levels very once a very low 11 ng/mL's and my total cholesterol was only 119. Low immune system (C3/C4, IgM). I'm sure my K2 is way down there. My favorable reaction to the raw milk made me think that probiotics are extremely important. Much more important that I already knew they were, and even question whether most of the probiotic supplements out there even work, and if they do, how well? There is nothing like the real thing . . . . > That's funny . . . . my sister lives in Paris and when I was telling her that I am eating raw cheese now and that the taste is very strong, so I simply shred it over my salads, she said that's how the French like their cheese . . . . really stinky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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