Spirituality and cancer -- a reply

[Guest guest]

,

I have probably spent more time pondering over religion and

spirituality than anyone on this list. I was reared a cradle Catholic,

attended Catholic schools for my first 12 years where most of my questions

were answered with a razor strop or worse. This did not stop my inquiries.

I have studied or lived with most of the major religions and sects and

Gnostics. Over a thousand books in my library are of a religious nature,

and I have read them - many in the original Latin.

My attraction to religion has been to understand the universality of

these beliefs, which I don't believe can be adequately explained by such

notions as left temporal lobe epilepsy. I have the good fortune of being

able to look at religions and spiritual beliefs with a certain amount of

objectivity as I don't have a personal religious prism to colorize my

thinking.

This is no different from my take on medicine and health. I don't really

care what is conventional or alternative or their theories. I only care

about what is effective, non-toxic, inexpensive, and hopefully, strategies

that you can do yourself. I probably have another 5,000 books going back

several centuries to this end.

I have seen religion and spiritual beliefs help people with cancer and I

have also seen the opposite. I have also observed that when people become

too serious about their beliefs they become intolerant and hostile. I am

not a belief-type person as I want my mind always open to a clearer

understanding. Most people seem entrained into the beliefs they were taught

as children and never seriously explore or question further.

At our retreat center we have visitors from every persuasion. I would

have it no other way. Once I had six unrelated Christian preachers doing

the program. I have special alliances with Greek orthodox, with

" Witnesses, " with Amish, with Jews/Israelis, and with Hindus, and I am open

to all who share my cosmopolitan, non-violent, spirituality - if you will.

As to the metaphysical, I do think much more goes on than meets the eye,

and I think that our brains are far too puny to sort it out, but it is human

nature to demand explanations and I find most people too easily satisfied

with patent nonsense from questionable authorities. I think that everyone

on the planet has their own variation of a quirky brain and it is our job to

make this planet work in spite of this. I often try to bring an implicit

levity to a post and only step on the toes of the intolerant and the

willfully ignorant.

I do think the mind plays an extremely important part in recovering. I

think it is unimportant whether you call it mind, psychology, or

spirituality. I have wondered why I returned from death's door so quickly

when compared with so many others. I looked over everyone I know who has

done extremely well at recovering from cancer quickly. I have found only

one common denominator. None of us were worriers or got particularly

emotional or depressed over the situation. The only stress I had was that

caused by extreme pain and loss of bowel control for a few months.

Everything resolved with a strategy of working with nature rather than

foolishly trying to outsmart it. Too often the losers seem to be the

overwrought worriers.

What you mistook as religion bashing was actually the bashing of the

abdication of personal responsibility. If someone comes to me to be told

what to do, they've come to the wrong place. They should come to me to

expand their options and then narrow them to the smartest candidate

therapies. They should come to me expecting to be challenged and find

potentially resolutive therapies, and not simply to search for signs of

medical or religious apostasy.

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of melizzard11

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:10 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Low Grade Cancers

--- " Gammill " <vgammill> wrote:

> Last week a program participant came to me and told me that Jesus brought

> them to me. This is so unnerving.

> What am I supposed to say: " Yes, my son, Jesus sends me many referrals, "

or

> do I ask, " Have you been smoking your teenager's cigarettes? " I haven't

> thought of picking a God for a while, but the sun god is high on my list.

> There is no question that it was the Sun that brought me to coastal

Southern

> California. At our retreat center we have two solaria for performing our

> divine prostrations.

>

C'mon . Just because you don't believe in spirituality, doesn't mean

none of us do. I have read so many posts by you, bashing spirituality, and I

have remained silent. Why you even interjected this story into a post about

IPT is beyond me.

Honestly, it's the spiritual path that is keeping me strong, no matter what.

To ignore the spiritual side of your humanity is, in my opinion, leaving the

eggs out of the cake mix. We are body, mind, and spirit ... to ignore any of

those can have consequences.

But it's your choice to make. It is not my personal choice and I, for one,

would appreciate it if you would keep your spiritual intolerance, and your

mockery of us who believe, to yourself or post on some atheistic list

somewhere. For many of us, the spiritual is the only thing keeping us here.

For me, the spiritual path is my primary treatment these days after trying

damn near everything else ... even your retreat. And I'm stronger than I've

been in years.

I'm just sayin' ... totally disrespectful of other's beliefs and treatment

choices ... and especially with a life and death issue, IMO.

xxoo

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Rock on Brother! In the past 2 1/2 years I've seen you write more than once what

needed to be read - despite what others thought. You are not alone in your

thinking!

What I like best about this site (the only cancer site I'm on, by the way) is

that people can share their thoughts, find the common ground of humanity, hug

and move on. What does it mean to have more time if we cannot show love and

compassion to one another each day 

Personally, I prefer the humorous sacred. I can't imagine my life lived

otherwise. Love and Light to you and everyone else reading this.

Jane SpottedBird

Stage IV cancer survivor

,

I have probably spent more time pondering over religion and

spirituality than anyone on this list. I was reared a cradle Catholic,

attended Catholic schools for my first 12 years where most of my questions

were answered with a razor strop or worse. This did not stop my inquiries.

I have studied or lived with most of the major religions and sects and

Gnostics. Over a thousand books in my library are of a religious nature,

and I have read them - many in the original Latin.

My attraction to religion has been to understand the universality of

these beliefs, which I don't believe can be adequately explained by such

notions as left temporal lobe epilepsy. I have the good fortune of being

able to look at religions and spiritual beliefs with a certain amount of

objectivity as I don't have a personal religious prism to colorize my

thinking.

This is no different from my take on medicine and health. I don't really

care what is conventional or alternative or their theories. I only care

about what is effective, non-toxic, inexpensive, and hopefully, strategies

that you can do yourself. I probably have another 5,000 books going back

several centuries to this end.

I have seen religion and spiritual beliefs help people with cancer and I

have also seen the opposite. I have also observed that when people become

too serious about their beliefs they become intolerant and hostile. I am

not a belief-type person as I want my mind always open to a clearer

understanding. Most people seem entrained into the beliefs they were taught

as children and never seriously explore or question further.

At our retreat center we have visitors from every persuasion. I would

have it no other way. Once I had six unrelated Christian preachers doing

the program. I have special alliances with Greek orthodox, with

" Witnesses, " with Amish, with Jews/Israelis, and with Hindus, and I am open

to all who share my cosmopolitan, non-violent, spirituality - if you will.

As to the metaphysical, I do think much more goes on than meets the eye,

and I think that our brains are far too puny to sort it out, but it is human

nature to demand explanations and I find most people too easily satisfied

with patent nonsense from questionable authorities. I think that everyone

on the planet has their own variation of a quirky brain and it is our job to

make this planet work in spite of this. I often try to bring an implicit

levity to a post and only step on the toes of the intolerant and the

willfully ignorant.

I do think the mind plays an extremely important part in recovering. I

think it is unimportant whether you call it mind, psychology, or

spirituality. I have wondered why I returned from death's door so quickly

when compared with so many others. I looked over everyone I know who has

done extremely well at recovering from cancer quickly. I have found only

one common denominator. None of us were worriers or got particularly

emotional or depressed over the situation. The only stress I had was that

caused by extreme pain and loss of bowel control for a few months.

Everything resolved with a strategy of working with nature rather than

foolishly trying to outsmart it. Too often the losers seem to be the

overwrought worriers.

What you mistook as religion bashing was actually the bashing of the

abdication of personal responsibility. If someone comes to me to be told

what to do, they've come to the wrong place. They should come to me to

expand their options and then narrow them to the smartest candidate

therapies. They should come to me expecting to be challenged and find

potentially resolutive therapies, and not simply to search for signs of

medical or religious apostasy.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your explanation , but for this reader, you need not have

extended yourself. I read into your comment that you meant a kind of narrowness

(of religious thinking) rather than an openness. For most of us, religion =

narrowness and spirituality = openness. If one is familiar with the works of

Jesus, then one knows that it does not require a title or a badge to do his

works. He questioned authority and healed the sick. Seems a lot like the work

of one Gammill. So, thanks for not taking on the cloak of religion but

acting in a way that is generous, spiritual, instinctual and especially, in a

way that respects the sanctity of life. Very few people who call themselves

Christian act in this way. Plus, I myself like for my information to come

without the taint of a narrow perspective. Leave the belief to me and my tribe.

Deborah

[Guest guest]

Dear Jane-With-the-World's-Best-Last-Name,

Thank you for your kind note. It saddens me when people are too rigid in

their beliefs to see humor, and the best humor is provocative. I am so

often on the unpopular side of issues that I feel like the proverbial cat

with the long tail in a room full of rocking chairs. I am so happy I live

in Southern California. Anywhere else I'd be stoned - with rocks, that is.

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of j spottedbird

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 11:11 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Spirituality and cancer -- a reply

Dear ,

Rock on Brother! In the past 2 1/2 years I've seen you write more than once

what needed to be read - despite what others thought. You are not alone in

your thinking!

What I like best about this site (the only cancer site I'm on, by the way)is

thatpeople can share their thoughts, find the common ground of humanity, hug

and move on. What does it mean to have more time if we cannotshow love and

compassion to one another each day

Personally, I prefer the humorous sacred. I can't imagine my life lived

otherwise.Love and Light to you and everyone else reading this.

Jane SpottedBird

Stage IV cancer survivor

[Guest guest]

There's just a frequent undertone of mockery whenever you speak of spirituality.

To make fun of someone because they say Jesus led them to you is intolerant and

messed-up. I know you love others and help them a lot ... and for those of you

who don't know, I have attended 's retreat, so this is not coming from

some random stranger who has no idea what he does ... and I think that's

commendable. However, accepting people in all their idiosyncrasies ... and

allowing them the freedom to express them ... is something for which we should

all strive ... regardless of religious views.

xxoo

>

> ,

>

> I have probably spent more time pondering over religion and

> spirituality than anyone on this list. I was reared a cradle Catholic,

> attended Catholic schools for my first 12 years where most of my questions

> were answered with a razor strop or worse. This did not stop my inquiries.

> I have studied or lived with most of the major religions and sects and

> Gnostics. Over a thousand books in my library are of a religious nature,

> and I have read them - many in the original Latin.

[Guest guest]

,

There is no more mockery of " spirituality " than if I said " psychology " whose

meanings are overlapping without being congruent, but one or the other

preferentially jumps to mind depending on the mindset or the context.

When I am told by a program participant that Jesus brought them to me, then

it often means to them that my word or recommendations take on an aura of

gospel that they dare not defy. There is no way that I can live up to such

expectations. I don't tell anyone what to do, I simply lay out the facts as

I see them. No other religious adherent ladens me with such an onus.

Perhaps tomorrow Zoroaster will bring me a program participant.

Often participants follow my suggestions exactly but not for religious

reasons, but because they think I am sensible. I agree with them: I think

I am sensible.

I would like to contribute to the list one of the psychological tricks that

I use to increase my own chances of survival.

There was an article in Taiwan Business Week (2003, Vol 807) which explained

a problem that the involved the 48 hours it took to ship fish (for sashimi)

from Serbia to Japan. 40% of the fish would die on the way. But, if the

shippers put a crab in the vat with the fish, the loss was reduced to 5%.

Just that little added stress and attentiveness made all the difference for

one-third of the fish who survived to see another day.

Everyone must find their own crab equivalent. For me it is conventional

oncologists. They keep me attentive and wary, and thus, alive, but trust

me, I'm not going to go up and hug one.

[Guest guest]

,

 

I come down hard on many spiritual beliefs--but also practice qigong. Is it

magic? No--but there's something to the energy paradigm, which Western medicine

discredited a century ago (e.g. Mesmer, Reich). I don't know if there is a

design--or a designer--but there are aspects to the human spirit and belief that

one cannot put on a chart or graph. My first bone marrow transplant was

difficult, my second, outrageous because of the months of prepatory

" mini-transplants. " It pushed me as far as I wanted to go. If I could do it

again I'd say " Confacimus " and look elsewhere. Not as much knowledge in the

early nineties as is available today.

That being said, I do appreciate your knowledge and attempts to help people. But

we are more than machines looking for a " magic bullet. " My survival is not

proof, but might be construed as evidence. As well as others I know that have

done the same. Again, anecdotal evidence.

Ellal

,

There is no more mockery of " spirituality " than if I said " psychology " whose

meanings are overlapping without being congruent, but one or the other

preferentially jumps to mind depending on the mindset or the context.

When I am told by a program participant that Jesus brought them to me, then

it often means to them that my word or recommendations take on an aura of

gospel that they dare not defy. There is no way that I can live up to such

expectations. I don't tell anyone what to do, I simply lay out the facts as

I see them. No other religious adherent ladens me with such an onus.

Perhaps tomorrow Zoroaster will bring me a program participant.

Often participants follow my suggestions exactly but not for religious

reasons, but because they think I am sensible. I agree with them: I think

I am sensible.

I would like to contribute to the list one of the psychological tricks that

I use to increase my own chances of survival.

There was an article in Taiwan Business Week (2003, Vol 807) which explained

a problem that the involved the 48 hours it took to ship fish (for sashimi)

from Serbia to Japan. 40% of the fish would die on the way. But, if the

shippers put a crab in the vat with the fish, the loss was reduced to 5%.

Just that little added stress and attentiveness made all the difference for

one-third of the fish who survived to see another day.

Everyone must find their own crab equivalent. For me it is conventional

oncologists. They keep me attentive and wary, and thus, alive, but trust

me, I'm not going to go up and hug one.