Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I had 30 IV-C treatments, 75 grams each time (except the first time which was 50 grams). I had no changes in my scans. On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:50 PM, shipshape45 <shipshape45@...> wrote: > Is there any one or knows of any one who's had any remission/cure for > Lymphoma using vitamin 'C' IV high doses upto 50mg. > AKP > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Hello, I have a recurrence of Hodgkin's Lymphoma. I did weekly 7.5 g Vitamin C IVs for 3 1/2 months early last year before what was left of my veins collapsed. I currently use Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C from LivOn labs. One packet contains 1000 mg vitamin C but becasue of its bioavailablity it is like getting 10 g IV. There is short video about it on www.livonlabs.com. My protocol has allowed me to kick this thing back to stage 1. I go for another CT/PET scan March 2nd to see how I look. If you are interested in my protocol, send me an email and I'll send you the info. Best, Debbie ________________________________ From: shipshape45 <shipshape45@...> Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 9:50:45 AM Subject: [ ] VITAMIN 'C' IV Is there any one or knows of any one who's had any remission/cure for Lymphoma using vitamin 'C' IV high doses upto 50mg. AKP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Deb, That sounds almost exactly like what happened to me. They couldn't get any veins anymore! I have a big box of fat-soluable vitamin C somewhere in my kitchen cupboards . . . . I would love a copy of your protocol!!! I especially love anything that is cheap and easy to do yourself. I do not like relying on doctors. I just don't think you get a good return on your investment with them, especially holistic dentists, who make more money than rock stars. It is almost insulting to get their estimates. I agree with them that mercury is toxic, root canals are toxic, etc. But I just don't get their prices . . . . Dana Deborah Lindberg wrote: I have a recurrence of Hodgkin's Lymphoma. I did weekly 7.5 g Vitamin C > IVs for 3 1/2 months early last year before what was left of my veins > collapsed. I currently use Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C from LivOn labs. One > packet contains 1000 mg vitamin C but becasue of its bioavailablity it is > like getting 10 g IV. There is short video about it on www.livonlabs.com. > > My protocol has allowed me to kick this thing back to stage 1. I go for > another CT/PET scan March 2nd to see how I look. If you are interested in > my protocol, send me an email and I'll send you the info. > > Best, > Debbie > > ________________________________ > From: shipshape45 > Is there any one or knows of any one who's had any remission/cure for Lymphoma using vitamin 'C' IV high doses upto 50mg. > AKP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Here it is, happy reading! Debbie ________________________________ From: Dana Herbert <danaherbert@...> Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 10:41:54 AM Subject: Re: [ ] VITAMIN 'C' IV Deb, That sounds almost exactly like what happened to me. They couldn't get any veins anymore! I have a big box of fat-soluable vitamin C somewhere in my kitchen cupboards . . . . I would love a copy of your protocol!!! I especially love anything that is cheap and easy to do yourself. I do not like relying on doctors. I just don't think you get a good return on your investment with them, especially holistic dentists, who make more money than rock stars. It is almost insulting to get their estimates. I agree with them that mercury is toxic, root canals are toxic, etc. But I just don't get their prices . . . . Dana Deborah Lindberg wrote: I have a recurrence of Hodgkin's Lymphoma. I did weekly 7.5 g Vitamin C > IVs for 3 1/2 months early last year before what was left of my veins > collapsed. I currently use Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C from LivOn labs. One > packet contains 1000 mg vitamin C but becasue of its bioavailablity it is > like getting 10 g IV. There is short video about it on www.livonlabs. com. > > My protocol has allowed me to kick this thing back to stage 1. I go for > another CT/PET scan March 2nd to see how I look. If you are interested in > my protocol, send me an email and I'll send you the info. > > Best, > Debbie > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: shipshape45 > Is there any one or knows of any one who's had any remission/cure for Lymphoma using vitamin 'C' IV high doses upto 50mg. > AKP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I cannot answer the question, however, it is a difficult one unless the High Dose Vitamin C was the 'only' protocol used. Otherwise, since many of us do many things to combat cancer, which one do we give credit to or do we give the credit to all we do? Additionally, high dose can mean a lot more than 50g because I used 100g fighting bladder cancer. I am assuming AKP meant to write 50g rather than 50mg. 1g=1,000mgs. Joe C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 On Mon, Feb 9, 2009, JCastron1 wrote: >...since many of us do many things to combat cancer, which one do we give credit to or do we give the credit to all we do? Joe C. > I think we should give the credit to ALL that we do. We are very hard workers . . . . I shlep to the gym 4 times a week and exercise even when I don't want to, sit in the sauna for 30 minutes, lie out in the sun every sunny day of the year, drive out of my way to get raw milk, or fresh herbs, or organic food (I have a supermarket across the street from me but drive 40 minutes out of the way to shop at Whole Foods), never drink (haven't drank in 16 years) or smoke even when I am really stressed out by all this dental crap. Honestly, I would rather any improvements in my scans be from things I can do myself, or from things that are free, like exercise and sunlight, than from anything any health care practitioner does. This is what I like about this group. All the great advice, and sharing of what has worked and what is a waste of money. I would spend my money again on $125 IV-C treatments (that seems like a reasonable price), but NEVER holistic dentistry again (I paid $17K for less than a days work pulling some teeth and cleaning out 'infection' (none was found on biopsy) and invisible cysts and got NO improvements out of it . . . .. and the dentist went out and bought a Harley son the next day). The " infections " are still very hot on bone scan. The holistic dentist told me that he does not believe that people are all equal, that only the hardest workers deserve the best health care. Well, do you know how many walls I will have to paint to pay for his Harley son? Then he tells me that my jawbone lesions (different area than what he worked on) are slowly improving because of all of MY HARD WORK and had nothing to do with his work . . . . he said that doctors are not Gods, they can only offer treatments. This is why I don't get why a conventional dentist will charge $100 for an extraction and a holistic dentist will charge $1000 for an extraction. I was lucky to find a dentist who accepted my insurance when I had my mercury out and charged me only $35 per filling to replace with white composite. I don't think I spent more than $400 getting my fillings replaced. Sunlight, exercise, and good food (anti-cancer diet). That's the key. Power to the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 " shipshape45 " <shipshape45@...> wrote: > Is there any one or knows of any one who's had any remission/cure for > Lymphoma using vitamin 'C' IV high doses upto 50mg. > AKP For the life of me, I don't get the logic of drawing conclusions about a therapy because 1 or 2 people used it (typically along w/many other treatments) and got good or bad results. I believe in drawing conclusions from studies/research, and clinicians who've used the therapy w/hundreds or thousands of patients. IV vit. C is particularly effective lymphomas. Lymphoma's reportedly the type of cancer that BioImmune.com (formerly CancerOption.com) is most effective with, and IV vit. C (non-corn-derived) is the core treatment in their protocol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 In a message dated 2/10/09 12:27:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, danaherbert@... writes: > This is > why I don't get why a conventional dentist will charge $100 for an > extraction and a holistic dentist will charge $1000 for an extraction. A while back I paid $850 for a crown that the " holistic " dentist wanted $1600 for. I told my regular dentist that I wanted Cubic Zirconium for the crown..I researched it and requested it because it is the least toxic, no outgassing. So, all in all I had a great treatment because I took responsibility and guided my own crown experience. I am a firm believer in taking charge of ones own medical health..not a popular attitude for doctors. They don't appreciate it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Dear Debbie, I am also currently using Lypo-spheric Vit c for my mom who has Stage 4 lung cancer, more as part of the protocol with artemix. Just wondering how many packets of Vit C do you take in a day? I read that you can never really over-dose on Vit C (the more the better) but there has to be a limit. Is one packet a day good enough? HP Deborah Lindberg <debannlin@...> wrote: > > I have a recurrence of Hodgkin's Lymphoma. I did weekly 7.5 g Vitamin C IVs for 3 1/2 months early last year before what was left of my veins collapsed. I currently use Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C from LivOn labs. One packet contains 1000 mg vitamin C but becasue of its bioavailablity it is like getting 10 g IV. There is short video about it on www.livonlabs.com. > > My protocol has allowed me to kick this thing back to stage 1. I go for another CT/PET scan March 2nd to see how I look. If you are interested in my protocol, send me an email and I'll send you the info. > > Best, > Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Vitamin C, if given at the same time (or within a few hours) of artemix may interfere with the artemix. There is some disagreement on this, but one of the main researchers say antioxidants taken at or near the time of the artemix will squelch the free radical reaction that the artemix uses to kill cancer cells. > > > > I have a recurrence of Hodgkin's Lymphoma. I did weekly 7.5 g > Vitamin C IVs for 3 1/2 months early last year before what was left > of my veins collapsed. I currently use Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C from > LivOn labs. One packet contains 1000 mg vitamin C but becasue of its > bioavailablity it is like getting 10 g IV. There is short video > about it on www.livonlabs.com. > > > > My protocol has allowed me to kick this thing back to stage 1. I > go for another CT/PET scan March 2nd to see how I look. If you are > interested in my protocol, send me an email and I'll send you the > info. > > > > Best, > > Debbie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 It is another sythetic form made by taking ascorbic acid, which is more refined than white sugar, made from some kind of sugar syrup, usually GMO corn syrup, Binding the ascorbic acid to sodium, creating sodium ascorbate, which is then mixed with phospholipids, which help to increase absorption. I do not understand why all these forms of ascorbic acid come out. the man who discovered ascorbic acid actually said not to take it. THe best vitamin c is pure radiance c by the synergy company. www.thesynergycompany.com or at the store. People need to stop trying to beat nature. Pure radiance c is a whole food Concentrate of high vitamin c fruits and roots. Vitamin C is more than just ascorbic acid. It is proteins and amino acids and polyphenols and things we have not even discovered. An orange contains thousands of constituents that are all important. Isolating one constituent makes that a drug not a vitamin. Ascorbic acid is a drug and should be labeled as such. ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://\ www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 From someone I trust: In a message dated 2/11/09 3:36:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, mesaug@... writes: > I am not against iv vit c i am against it being called a vitamin or an > antioxidant or natural in any way > I am against it being promoted as having no side affects. I am against > people not being told what those huge dosages do to your bones and the oxidative > effects that ascorbic acid has on the body. Call it what it is a drug that has > many side effects and should only be used under a doctors care > > ************** The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes you there. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000002) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I usually give the vit C at lunchtime and teh artemix at bedtime, as recommended by Prof singh. HP > > > > > > I have a recurrence of Hodgkin's Lymphoma. I did weekly 7.5 g > > Vitamin C IVs for 3 1/2 months early last year before what was left > > of my veins collapsed. I currently use Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C from > > LivOn labs. One packet contains 1000 mg vitamin C but becasue of > its > > bioavailablity it is like getting 10 g IV. There is short video > > about it on www.livonlabs.com. > > > > > > My protocol has allowed me to kick this thing back to stage 1. I > > go for another CT/PET scan March 2nd to see how I look. If you are > > interested in my protocol, send me an email and I'll send you the > > info. > > > > > > Best, > > > Debbie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Do not disparage IV-C. You are right, it is a drug. It has to be at the doses needed. It is entirely different from oral vit c. As a Ca treatment it can be very good but you need daily doses of from 50g to 150g. You gotta eat a lot of oranges to get that dose! It can pull metals from the body by oxidation/reduction reactions, it accelerates healing after surgery, it is a brilliant anti viral/bacterial/fungal agent. It can pull patients back after an OD faster and safer than anything I have experienced. It is a life saver and sadly underused. Why kids die from viral meningitis when iv-c will wipe it out is beyond me Graeme szukidavis@... wrote: > > > It is another sythetic form made by taking ascorbic acid, which is more > refined than white sugar, made from some kind of sugar syrup, usually > GMO corn > syrup, Binding the ascorbic acid to sodium, creating sodium ascorbate, > which is > then mixed with phospholipids, which help to increase absorption. I do > not > understand why all these forms of ascorbic acid come out. the man who > discovered > ascorbic acid actually said not to take it. THe best vitamin c is pure > radiance > c by the synergy company. www.thesynergycompa ny.com or at the store. > People > need to stop trying to beat nature. Pure radiance c is a whole food > Concentrate > of high vitamin c fruits and roots. Vitamin C is more than just > ascorbic acid. > It is proteins and amino acids and polyphenols and things we have not > even > discovered. An orange contains thousands of constituents that are all > important. > Isolating one constituent makes that a drug not a vitamin. Ascorbic > acid is a > drug and should be labeled as such. > > ************ ** > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100000075x121855 0342x1201216770/ > aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport .com/pm/default. > aspx?sc=668072% 26hmpgID= 62%26bcd= fe > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://\ www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe> > bemailfooterNO62) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 IV-C What nonsense this is. Usual stuff from armchair warriors who have never used iv-c. Point 1. Of course it is an antioxidant. It is an electron donor par excellence Point 2. Vit C can only have oxidative effect in very low doses when the body is under severe stress. By low dose I mean 500mg. IV-C is a minimum 7.5g Point 3. Bones! I cut into patients bones for a living and after 20+ years using iv-c I can tell you that the effects of iv-c are wholly positive. Point 4. It acts wilth Glutathione in a redox reaction. It recycles Glutathione in the body thereby increases the detox capacity of a body manyfold. It can take out heavy metals using Redox so does not wipe out all the trace minerals as do chelating agents. Point 6. Of course it has to be used by a Drs in an office. Who could find the materials and know how to do it at home? Point 7. When a patient presents in a state where they are unable to comunicate for whatever reason, an immediate 7.5 g iv-c will buy you enough time to find out what the problem is and make the correct decisions. It is literally a life saver. Point 8. I had patients been given 2 months to live with ovarian Ca and she did IV-C and lived to tell the tale Point 9. I was given 5 years to live at the age of 28 with an irreversible heart condition. Now at 62 I am alive purely to Vitamin C with no heart condition. Do not knock it, use it! Graeme szukidavis@... wrote: > > From someone I trust: > > In a message dated 2/11/09 3:36:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, > mesaughotmail (DOT) com <mailto:mesaug%40hotmail.com> writes: > > > I am not against iv vit c i am against it being called a vitamin or an > > antioxidant or natural in any way > > I am against it being promoted as having no side affects. I am against > > people not being told what those huge dosages do to your bones and > the oxidative > > effects that ascorbic acid has on the body. Call it what it is a > drug that has > > many side effects and should only be used under a doctors care > > > > > > ************ ** > The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy > Awards. AOL Music takes you there. > (http://music. aol.com/grammys? ncid=emlcntusmus i00000002 > <http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000002>) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Graeme, I think your exuberance and confidence in IV vit C is justified. In general I am very much in favor of IV C. I have seen patients virtually return from the dead using IV C and I have never seen a patient's health plummet because of using C. There are occasional cases where vit C does not seem to serve a patient well, so we replace with a more suitable therapy. What amazes me is that on this list were a couple of Indian docs who claimed their experience with IV C was disastrous. I have never seen a disaster and I've used both beet and corn derived, the free acid, and the sodium salt. Maybe the Indian docs ran into a string of G6PD deficiencies. See below. http://www.jpgmonline.com/article.asp?issn=0022-3859;year=2007;volume=53;issue=3\ ;spage=193;epage=202;aulast=Tripathy JPGM -- Journal of Post Graduate Medicine REVIEW ARTICLE : 2007 | Vol: 53 | Issue: 3 | Page : 193-202 Present status of understanding on the G6PD deficiency and natural selection V Tripathy, BM Reddy Molecular Anthropology Group, Biological Anthropology Unit, Indian Statistical Institute, Street No. 8, Habsiguda, Hyderabad - 500 007, AP, India Source of Support: None, Conflict of Interest: None :: Abstract G6PD deficiency is a common hemolytic genetic disorder, particularly in the areas endemic to malaria. Individuals are generally asymptomatic and hemolytic anemia occurs when some anti-malarial drugs or other oxidizing chemicals are administered. It has been proposed that G6PD deficiency provides protection against malaria. Maintaining of G6PD deficient alleles at polymorphic proportions is complicated because of the X-linked nature of G6PD deficiency. A comprehensive review of the literature on the hypothesis of malarial protection and the nature of the selection is being presented. Most of the epidemiological, in vitro and in vivo studies report selection for G6PD deficiency. Analysis of the G6PD gene also reveals that G6PD-deficient alleles show some signatures of selection. However, the question of how this polymorphism is being maintained remains unresolved because the selection/fitness coefficients for the different genotypes in the two sexes have not been established. Prevalence of G6PD deficiency in Indian caste and tribal populations and the different variants reported has also been reviewed. At 01:51 AM 2/13/2009, Graeme wrote: >IV-C >What nonsense this is. Usual stuff from armchair warriors who have never >used iv-c. >Point 1. Of course it is an antioxidant. It is an electron donor par >excellence >Point 2. Vit C can only have oxidative effect in very low doses when the >body is under severe stress. By low dose I mean 500mg. IV-C is a minimum >7.5g >Point 3. Bones! I cut into patients bones for a living and after 20+ >years using iv-c I can tell you that the effects of iv-c are wholly >positive. >Point 4. It acts wilth Glutathione in a redox reaction. It recycles >Glutathione in the body thereby increases the detox capacity of a body >manyfold. It can take out heavy metals using Redox so does not wipe out >all the trace minerals as do chelating agents. >Point 6. Of course it has to be used by a Drs in an office. Who could >find the materials and know how to do it at home? >Point 7. When a patient presents in a state where they are unable to >comunicate for whatever reason, an immediate 7.5 g iv-c will buy you >enough time to find out what the problem is and make the correct >decisions. It is literally a life saver. >Point 8. I had patients been given 2 months to live with ovarian Ca and >she did IV-C and lived to tell the tale >Point 9. I was given 5 years to live at the age of 28 with an >irreversible heart condition. Now at 62 I am alive purely to Vitamin C >with no heart condition. Do not knock it, use it! > >Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 In a message dated 2/13/09 6:15:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mesaug@... writes: > Dr. Cowan who runs a huge alternative health clinic also in > california, writes in one of his books that any more than 250mg of ascorbic acid is > bad for you and that it becomes a pro oxidant at those high doses > ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http://\ www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I am a believer in vit c drips and I get them them from time to time but I wanted to post this for everyone to view:> > > > High Doses of Vitamin C Are Not > Effective as a Cancer Treatment > > Barrett, M.D. > > The claim that vitamin C is useful in the treatment of cancer is largely > attributable to Linus ing, Ph.D. In 1976 and 1978, he and a ish > surgeon, Ewan Cameron, M.B., Ch.B., reported that patients treated with high doses > of vitamin C had survived three to four times longer than similar patients who > did not receive vitamin C supplements. The study was conducted during the > early 1970s at the Vale of Leven Hospital in Loch Lomonside, Scotland. Dr. > Cameron treated 100 advanced cancer patients with 10,000 milligrams grams of > vitamin C per day. The clinical course of these patients was then compared with > that of 1,000 patients of other doctors whose records were obtained from the > same hospital, but who had received no vitamin C. The findings were published > in 1976, with ing as co-author, in the Proceeding of the National Academy > of Sciences [1]. The 1976 report emphasized that all of the patients had > been " treated initially in a perfectly conventional way, by operation, use of > radiotherapy, and administration of hormones or cytotoxic substances. " The > vitamin C patients were reported to have a mean survival time 300 days longer > than that of the controls. Moreover, the vitamin C patients were said to have > shown an improvement in their quality of life. In response to doubts about the > validity, reliability, and quality of the control population, Cameron and > ing replaced some of the patients and controls and published another > analysis in September 1978 in the same journal [2]. In 1979, two Japanese > researchers affiliated with the Linus ing Institute claimed similar results in two > studies totaling 130 cancer patients treated during the 1970s [3]. > Faulty DesignThe ing/Cameron study was not a clinical trial in which > patients were compared to carefully matched patients chosen at random and > followed using a standardized protocol. Instead, ing and Cameron attempted to > reconstruct what happened to the control group by examining their medical > records. Most cancer specialists and journal editors are extremely reluctant to > accept this type of study for evaluating the validity of contemporary cancer > therapy, primarily because bias may occur in selecting controls. > In 1982, D. DeWys, M.D., chief of the clinical investigations branch > of the National Cancer Institute's cancer therapy program, pointed out that > the vitamin C and control groups had not been properly matched [4]. First he > observed that no data had been published to demonstrate that the patients had > been matched by stage of their disease, functional ability, weight loss, and > sites of metastasis, all of which are important judging the stage of the > disease. Then he pointed out that Cameron's patients began getting vitamin C > when Cameron judged them " untreatable " and their subsequent survival was > compared to that of the control patients from the time they had been labeled > " untreatable. " > DeWys reasoned that if the two groups were comparable, the average time from > the initial diagnosis to " untreatable " status should be similar for both > groups. But they were not. He concluded that many of Cameron's patients had been > labeled untreatable earlier in the course of their disease and would > therefore be expected to live longer. DeWys also noted that more than 20% of the > patients in the control group had died within a few days of being labeled > untreatable, whereas none of Cameron's patients had died. This, too, suggested that > Cameron's patients had had less advanced disease when they were labeled > untreatable. > In the Japanese study, the treatment and control groups were treated with > various doses and at different times, which made the conclusions even more > questionable [5]. > Mayo Study #1In 1978, the Mayo Clinic embarked on a prospective, controlled, > double-blind study designed to test ing and Cameron's claims. Each > patient in this study had biopsy-proven cancer that was considered incurable and > unsuitable for further chemotherapy, surgery, or radiation. The patients were > randomized to receive 10 grams of vitamin C per day or a comparably flavored > lactose placebo. All patients took a glycerin-coated capsule four times a > day. > The patients were carefully selected so that those vitamin C placebo groups > were equally matched. There were 60 patients in the vitamin C group and 63 in > the placebo group. The age distributions were similar. There was a slight > predominance of males, but the ratio of males to females was virtually > identical. Performance status was measured using the Eastern ative Oncology > Group Scale, a clinical scale well recognized by cancer researchers. Most study > patients had some disability from their disease, but only a small proportion > were bedridden. Most patients had advanced gastrointestinal or lung cancer. > Almost all had received chemotherapy, and a smaller proportion had undergone > radiation therapy. > The results were noteworthy. About 25% of patients in both groups showed > some improvement in appetite. Forty-two percent of the patients on placebo alone > experienced enhancement of their level of activity. About 40% of the > patients experienced mild nausea and vomiting, but the two groups had no > statistically significant differences in the number of episodes. There were no survival > differences between patients receiving vitamin C and those receiving the > placebo. The median survival time was approximately seven weeks from the onset of > therapy. The longest surviving patient in this trial had received the > placebo. Overall, the study showed no benefit from vitamin C [6]. > After the study was published, ing complained in a letter to the editor > that most patients had had extensive prior chemotherapy and were therefore > immunologically compromised—so no benefit from vitamin C in the patient > population should be expected [7]. In response, the Mayo researchers pointed out > that ing's own reports had said that all of his patients had undergone > " perfectly conventional " therapy [8]. But ing maintained that only 4 of > Cameron's 100 patients had received prior chemotherapy [7]. Curiously, at a meeting > in February 1985 at the University of Arizona, ing stated that vitamin C > therapy could be used along with all conventional forms of treatment [9]. > A 1975 study at the Mayo Clinic had demonstrated that patients with advanced > cancer can mount an immunological response. The study involved forty > patients who had undergone chemotherapy for a gastrointestinal malignancy. Many of > these patients had immune responses to BCG vaccine, indicating that people > with advanced cancer are not uniformly or inevitably immunologically compromised > [10]. Nevertheless, the Mayo researcher decided to retest vitamin C. > Mayo Study #2Patients in the second Mayo study of vitamin C and cancer had > tissue-proven colorectal adenocarcinoma that was considered incurable. They > were ambulatory and had not had chemotherapy. Most had no symptoms. The > patients were carefully classified according to the interval between the diagnosis > of inoperable disease and entry into the study, the sites of metastasis, and > whether there was a measurable area of tumor. A total of 51 patients were > randomly allocated to vitamin C, and 49 patients were assigned to receive a > milk-sugar placebo. > There were no objective regressions from either placebo or vitamin C for the > 19 patients in each group who had measurable tumors. Among the patients who > had symptoms when the study began, 7 (64%) of the 11 vitamin C patients and > 11 (65%) of the 17 placebo patients claimed some degree of symptomatic relief. > To be sure that patients were following the experimental protocol, urine > specimens from five patients selected randomly from the treatment group and six > patients from the control group were analyzed for vitamin C. The vitamin C > patients had significant levels, while the five of the six placebo patients had > negligible levels of urinary vitamin C. (The other patient was taking > medications that made it impossible to interpret the test.) > The median survival for all patients was approximately 10-11 months, while > that from entry into the study until " progression " was declared was about four > months. (Progression was declared if a tumor increased significantly in > size, new metastases occurred, symptoms or performance worsened substantially, or > weight decreased 10% or more.) No meaningful differences were found between > patients on vitamin C and those on placebo. Thus, there was no apparent > benefit from treatment with high-dose vitamin C [11] > Mayo Study #3Following publication of these results, some commentators > suggested that the study patients might not have been representative of cancer > patients as a whole—that perhaps there was a subtle selection or referral bias > that may have skewed the results. So a third prospective, randomized, > stratified study was conducted under the auspices of the North Central Cancer > Treatment Group, an international, multi-institutional, collaborative oncology > group. Based primarily at the Division of Oncology at the Mayo Clinic, the group > also had input from community-based cancer specialists in the Upper Midwest, > Louisiana, Montana, Pennsylvania, and Saskatchewan, Canada. > This study included 71 patients on vitamin C and 73 patients on placebo. The > patients were carefully matched by age and gender. Performance scores > indicated that most of them had some disability from their advanced cancer. The > sites of the primary cancers were virtually identical to those of the original > study—primarily lung and colorectal cancer—and the distribution between > treatment groups showed no meaningful differences by diagnosis or site. All had > advanced cancer that had progressed after standard treatment. > Most patients had had prior chemotherapy, and a smaller proportion had > undergone radiation therapy. The study found that the vitamin C group survived no > longer than the placebo group. The median survival time was approximately one > month, which is fundamentally the same as in the initial vitamin C study. > The data did show something that was somewhat intriguing. At two weeks after > the onset of therapy, some patients receiving vitamin C experienced substantial > improvement in appetite, strength, and pain relief. However, these > advantages quickly dissipated so that by 4-6 weeks, no meaningful advantage from > vitamin C remained. The researchers concluded that vitamin C had provided > transient symptomatic improvement in appetite and strength for a small pro-portion of > treated patients. However, survival was not enhanced by vitamin C [12]. > Thus, three prospectively randomized, placebo-controlled studies involving > 367 patients documented no consistent benefit from vitamin C among cancer > patients with advanced disease. Moreover, high doses of vitamin C can have > significant adverse effects. High oral doses can cause diarrhea. High intravenous > dosage has been reported to cause kidney failure due to clogging of the kidney > tubules by oxalate crystals [13-15]. > Laboratory StudiesA dispute between ing and Arthur , Ph.D., > gives additional evidence of ing's advocacy of vitamin C megadosage was less > than honest. , a former student and long-time associate of ing, > helped found the Linus ing Institute and became its first president. > According to an investigative report by Lowell, Ph.D., in Nutrition Forum > newsletter, 's own research led him to conclude in 1978 that the high > doses (5-10 grams per day) of vitamin C being recommended by ing might > actually promote some types of cancer in mice [16]. told Lowell, for > example, that animals fed quantities equivalent to ing's recommendations > contracted skin cancer almost twice as frequently as the control group and that > only doses of vitamin C that were nearly lethal had any protective effect. > Shortly after reporting this to ing, was asked to resign from the > institute, his experimental animals were killed, his scientific data were > impounded, and some of the previous research results were destroyed. ing > also declared publicly that 's research was " amateurish " and > inadequate. responded by suing the Institute and its trustees. In 1983, the > suit was settled out of court for $575,000. In an interview quoted in Nature, > ing said that the settlement " represented no more than compensation for > loss of office and the cost of 's legal fees. " However, the > court-approved agreement stated that $425,000 of the settlement was for slander and > libel. > In 1994, and two colleagues summarized the results of four mouse > studies he had carried out while working at the ing Institute [19]. Nearly > all of the mice developed skin cancers (squamous cell carcinomas) following > exposure to ultraviolet radiation. Altogether, 1,846 hairless mice received a > total of 38 different diets. The researchers found that (a) the rate of onset > and severity of tumors could be varied as much as 20-fold by just modifying > dietary balance; ( diets with the worst balance of nutrients had the > greatest inhibitory effect on cancer growth; and © no cures or remissions were > observed (although the researchers were not looking for this). In 1999, > commented: > >> The results of these experiments caused an argument between Linus and me, >> which ended our 16-year period of work together. He was not willing to >> accept the experimentally proved fact that vitamin C in ordinary doses >> accelerated the growth rate of squamous cell carcinoma in these mice. >> At the time, Linus was promoting his claim that " 75% of all cancer can be >> prevented and cured by vitamin C alone. " This claim proved to be without >> experimental foundation and not true. . . . Vitamin C increased the rate of >> growth of cancer at human equivalents of 1 to 5 grams per day, but suppressed >> the cancer growth rate at doses on the order of 100 grams per day (near the >> lethal dose), as do other measures of malnutrition [20]. >> > Recent laboratory studies have found that vitamin C may interfere with the > effectiveness of five anti-cancer drugs. First, the researchers gave a vitamin > C product to cancer cells that were treated with chemotherapy and found that > the 30% to 70% fewer cancer cells were killed. Then they injected mice with > cancer cells, administered chemotherapy, and found that cells grew into > tumors much faster in the mice that received pre-treatment vitamin C. The > researchers warned that although results in animals are not necessarily applicable to > humans, vitamin C supplementation during cancer treatment may interfere with > the effect of chemotherapy in humans [21].The Bottom LineLinus ing's > claim that high-dose vitamin C prolonged the life of cancer patients was based > on improper statistical analysis of data from a case series. Subsequent > clinical trials found no benefit from what he recommended. Case reports indicate > that high-dose vitamin C can produce kidney damage. And laboratory studies have > shown that vitamin C might even accelerate cancer growth. Thus, even if > supplementary vitamin C is eventually be found to have some use in fighting > cancer, that role is not likely to be extensive. Despite these hard facts, many > people still claim that high doses of vitamin C are useful as a cancer > treatment. Responsible health professionals should clarify this issue so that > patients neither forfeit scientific care nor put themselves at risk by using a > product that has no demonstrated merit. > References > Cameron E, ing L. Supplemental ascorbate in the supportive treatment of > cancer: prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer. Proceeding > of the National Academy of Sciences 73:3685-3689, 1976. > Cameron E, ing L. Supplemental ascorbate in the supportive treatment of > cancer: reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human > cancer. Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences 75:4538-4542, 1978. > Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H. Prolongation of survival times of > terminal cancer patients by administration of large doses of ascorbate. > International Journal for Vitamin and Nutrition Research. Supplement 23:101-113, 1982. > DeWys WD. How to evaluate a new treatment for cancer. Your Patient and > Cancer 2(5):31-36, 1982. > Gelband H and others. Unconventional cancer treatments. Washington, D.C.: > U.S. Government Printing Office, 1990, pages 120-127. > Creagan ET and others. Failure of high-dose vitamin C (ascorbic acid) > therapy to benefit patients with advanced cancer. A controlled trial. New England > Journal of Medicine 301:687-690, 1979. > ing L. Vitamin C therapy and advanced cancer (letter). New England > Journal of Medicine 302:694, 1980. > Moertel CG, Creagan ET. Vitamin C therapy and advanced cancer (letter). New > England Journal of Medicine 302:694-695, 1980. > Lowell J. Some notes on Linus ing. Nutrition Forum 2:33-36, 1985. > Moertel CG and others. Clinical studies of methanol extraction residue > fraction of Bacillus Calmette-Guerin as an immunostimulant in patients with > advanced cancer. Cancer Research 35:3075-3083, 1975. > Creagan ET and others. Failure of high-dose vitamin C (ascorbic acid) > therapy to benefit patients with advanced cancer. A controlled trial. New England > Journal of Medicine 301:687-690, 1979. > Tschetter L and others. A community-based study of vitamin C (ascorbic acid) > in patients with advanced cancer. Proceedings of the American Society of > Clinical Oncology 2:92, 1983. > McAllister CJ and others. Renal failure secondary to massive infusion of > vitamin C. JAMA 252:1684, 1984. > Lawton JM. Acute oxalate nephropathy after massive ascorbic acid > administration. Archives of Internal Medicine 145:950-951, 1985. > Wong K and others. Acute oxalate nephropathy after a massive intravenous > dose of vitamin C. Australian and New Zealand Journal of Medicine 24:410-411, > 1994. > Lowell JA. Some notes on Linus ing. Nutrition Forum 2:33-36, 1985. > ing L. Letters to Barrett, M.D., March 26, April 23, May 18, May > 28, 1981. > About the LPI. Linus ing Institute Web site, accessed June 8, 2008. > AB and others, Suppression of squamous cell carcinoma in hairless > mice by dietary nutrient variation. Mechanisms of Ageing and Development > 76:201-214, 1994. > AB. Nutrition and Cancer. Nutrition and Cancer Web site, Dec 1999. > Heaney ML and others. Vitamin C antagonizes the cytotoxic effects of > antineoplastic drugs. Cancer Research 68:8031-8038, 2008. > This article was revised on October 23, 2008. > > From: Szukidavis@... > Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:37:49 -0500 > Subject: Re: Re: VITAMIN 'C' IV > MESAUG@... > > Josh, > is a cancer genius..he runs a wonderful alternative cancer center in > California. > > In a message dated 2/13/09 12:26:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > vgammill@... writes: > > > >> >> Graeme, >> >> I think your exuberance and confidence in IV vit C is >> justified. In general I am very much in favor of IV C. I have seen >> patients virtually return from the dead using IV C and I have never >> seen a patient's health plummet because of using C. There are >> occasional cases where vit C does not seem to serve a patient well, >> so we replace with a more suitable therapy. >> >> What amazes me is that on this list were a couple of Indian docs >> who claimed their experience with IV C was disastrous. I have never >> seen a disaster and I've used both beet and corn derived, the free >> acid, and the sodium salt. Maybe the Indian docs ran into a string >> of G6PD deficiencies. See below. >> >> >> >> >> http://www.jpgmonline.com/article.asp?issn=0022-3859;year=2007;volume=53;issue=3\ ;spage=193;epage=202;aulast=Tripathy >> >> JPGM -- Journal of Post Graduate Medicine >> REVIEW ARTICLE : 2007 | Vol: 53 | Issue: 3 | Page : 193-202 >> >> Present status of understanding on the G6PD deficiency and natural >> selection >> V Tripathy, BM Reddy >> Molecular Anthropology Group, Biological Anthropology Unit, Indian >> Statistical Institute, Street No. 8, Habsiguda, Hyderabad - 500 007, AP, >> India >> >> Source of Support: None, Conflict of Interest: None >> >> :: Abstract >> >> G6PD deficiency is a common hemolytic genetic disorder, particularly >> in the areas endemic to malaria. Individuals are generally >> asymptomatic and hemolytic anemia occurs when some anti-malarial >> drugs or other oxidizing chemicals are administered. It has been >> proposed that G6PD deficiency provides protection against malaria. >> Maintaining of G6PD deficient alleles at polymorphic proportions is >> complicated because of the X-linked nature of G6PD deficiency. A >> comprehensive review of the literature on the hypothesis of malarial >> protection and the nature of the selection is being presented. Most >> of the epidemiological, in vitro and in vivo studies report selection >> for G6PD deficiency. Analysis of the G6PD gene also reveals that >> G6PD-deficient alleles show some signatures of selection. However, >> the question of how this polymorphism is being maintained remains >> unresolved because the selection/fitness coefficients for the >> different genotypes in the two sexes have not been established. >> Prevalence of G6PD deficiency in Indian caste and tribal populations >> and the different variants reported has also been reviewed. >> >> At 01:51 AM 2/13/2009, Graeme wrote: >> >> >IV-C >> >What nonsense this is. Usual stuff from armchair warriors who have never >> >used iv-c. >> >Point 1. Of course it is an antioxidant. It is an electron donor par >> >excellence >> >Point 2. Vit C can only have oxidative effect in very low doses when the >> >body is under severe stress. By low dose I mean 500mg. IV-C is a minimum >> >7.5g >> >Point 3. Bones! I cut into patients bones for a living and after 20+ >> >years using iv-c I can tell you that the effects of iv-c are wholly >> >positive. >> >Point 4. It acts wilth Glutathione in a redox reaction. It recycles >> >Glutathione in the body thereby increases the detox capacity of a body >> >manyfold. It can take out heavy metals using Redox so does not wipe out >> >all the trace minerals as do chelating agents. >> >Point 6. Of course it has to be used by a Drs in an office. Who could >> >find the materials and know how to do it at home? >> >Point 7. When a patient presents in a state where they are unable to >> >comunicate for whatever reason, an immediate 7.5 g iv-c will buy you >> >enough time to find out what the problem is and make the correct >> >decisions. It is literally a life saver. >> >Point 8. I had patients been given 2 months to live with ovarian Ca and >> >she did IV-C and lived to tell the tale >> >Point 9. I was given 5 years to live at the age of 28 with an >> >irreversible heart condition. Now at 62 I am alive purely to Vitamin C >> >with no heart condition. Do not knock it, use it! >> > >> >Graeme >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 List, For at least 10 years I have not done vitamin C without menadione. It is so automatic that I forgot to mention it. I do want to say this: that when a cancer patient comes in who is close to death, ascorbate with menadione is one of the first things for which I reach. I also think that IV magnesium, lipoic acid, and albumin are also undervalued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 > > List, > > For at least 10 years I have not done vitamin C without > menadione. It is so automatic that I forgot to mention it. I do > want to say this: that when a cancer patient comes in who is close to > death, ascorbate with menadione is one of the first things for which > I reach. I also think that IV magnesium, lipoic acid, and albumin > are also undervalued. > > > Please let me know where your clinic is in California. My son is in the last stages of Glioblastoma. He was diagnosed in Nov. 2007 and we're interested in getting Vit. C infusions for him. Thank You, Marilyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 STEPHEN BARRETT? Of " Quackwatch " (or one of those groups)? TOTALLY discredited as a source of ANYTHING. > > I am a believer in vit c drips and I get them them from time to time but I > wanted to post this for everyone to view:> > > > > > > High Doses of Vitamin C Are Not > > Effective as a Cancer Treatment > > > > Barrett, M.D. > > > > The claim that vitamin C is useful in the treatment of cancer is largely > > attributable to Linus ing, Ph.D. In 1976 and 1978, he and a ish > > surgeon, Ewan Cameron, M.B., Ch.B., reported that patients treated with high doses > > of vitamin C had survived three to four times longer than similar patients who > > did not receive vitamin C supplements. The study was conducted during the > > early 1970s at the Vale of Leven Hospital in Loch Lomonside, Scotland. Dr. > > Cameron treated 100 advanced cancer patients with 10,000 milligrams grams of > > vitamin C per day. The clinical course of these patients was then compared with > > that of 1,000 patients of other doctors whose records were obtained from the > > same hospital, but who had received no vitamin C. ~snip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Well he has not read the research then has he. Up to 500mg of vit c can become proxidant but levels above that swamp out the effect. There is a clear difference between oral and iv c as well Graeme szukidavis@... wrote: > > In a message dated 2/13/09 6:15:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, > mesaughotmail (DOT) com <mailto:mesaug%40hotmail.com> writes: > > > Dr. Cowan who runs a huge alternative health clinic also in > > california, writes in one of his books that any more than 250mg of > ascorbic acid is > > bad for you and that it becomes a pro oxidant at those high doses > > > > ************ ** > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x121882 2736x1201267884/ > aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport .com/pm/default. > aspx?sc=668072% 26hmpgID= 62%26bcd= fe > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http://\ www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe> > bemailfooterNO62) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Dera menadione What dose do you use and for how long? Any thought about a k2 precursor rather than k3? Graeme VGammill wrote: > > Graeme, > > I think your exuberance and confidence in IV vit C is > justified. In general I am very much in favor of IV C. I have seen > patients virtually return from the dead using IV C and I have never > seen a patient's health plummet because of using C. There are > occasional cases where vit C does not seem to serve a patient well, > so we replace with a more suitable therapy. > > What amazes me is that on this list were a couple of Indian docs > who claimed their experience with IV C was disastrous. I have never > seen a disaster and I've used both beet and corn derived, the free > acid, and the sodium salt. Maybe the Indian docs ran into a string > of G6PD deficiencies. See below. > > > > http://www.jpgmonli ne.com/article. asp?issn= 0022-3859; year=2007; > volume=53; issue=3;spage= 193;epage= 202;aulast= Tripathy > <http://www.jpgmonline.com/article.asp?issn=0022-3859;year=2007;volume=53;issue=\ 3;spage=193;epage=202;aulast=Tripathy> > > JPGM -- Journal of Post Graduate Medicine > REVIEW ARTICLE : 2007 | Vol: 53 | Issue: 3 | Page : 193-202 > > Present status of understanding on the G6PD deficiency and natural > selection > V Tripathy, BM Reddy > Molecular Anthropology Group, Biological Anthropology Unit, Indian > Statistical Institute, Street No. 8, Habsiguda, Hyderabad - 500 007, > AP, India > > Source of Support: None, Conflict of Interest: None > > :: Abstract > > G6PD deficiency is a common hemolytic genetic disorder, particularly > in the areas endemic to malaria. Individuals are generally > asymptomatic and hemolytic anemia occurs when some anti-malarial > drugs or other oxidizing chemicals are administered. It has been > proposed that G6PD deficiency provides protection against malaria. > Maintaining of G6PD deficient alleles at polymorphic proportions is > complicated because of the X-linked nature of G6PD deficiency. A > comprehensive review of the literature on the hypothesis of malarial > protection and the nature of the selection is being presented. Most > of the epidemiological, in vitro and in vivo studies report selection > for G6PD deficiency. Analysis of the G6PD gene also reveals that > G6PD-deficient alleles show some signatures of selection. However, > the question of how this polymorphism is being maintained remains > unresolved because the selection/fitness coefficients for the > different genotypes in the two sexes have not been established. > Prevalence of G6PD deficiency in Indian caste and tribal populations > and the different variants reported has also been reviewed. > > At 01:51 AM 2/13/2009, Graeme wrote: > > >IV-C > >What nonsense this is. Usual stuff from armchair warriors who have never > >used iv-c. > >Point 1. Of course it is an antioxidant. It is an electron donor par > >excellence > >Point 2. Vit C can only have oxidative effect in very low doses when the > >body is under severe stress. By low dose I mean 500mg. IV-C is a minimum > >7.5g > >Point 3. Bones! I cut into patients bones for a living and after 20+ > >years using iv-c I can tell you that the effects of iv-c are wholly > >positive. > >Point 4. It acts wilth Glutathione in a redox reaction. It recycles > >Glutathione in the body thereby increases the detox capacity of a body > >manyfold. It can take out heavy metals using Redox so does not wipe out > >all the trace minerals as do chelating agents. > >Point 6. Of course it has to be used by a Drs in an office. Who could > >find the materials and know how to do it at home? > >Point 7. When a patient presents in a state where they are unable to > >comunicate for whatever reason, an immediate 7.5 g iv-c will buy you > >enough time to find out what the problem is and make the correct > >decisions. It is literally a life saver. > >Point 8. I had patients been given 2 months to live with ovarian Ca and > >she did IV-C and lived to tell the tale > >Point 9. I was given 5 years to live at the age of 28 with an > >irreversible heart condition. Now at 62 I am alive purely to Vitamin C > >with no heart condition. Do not knock it, use it! > > > >Graeme > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Have you son also research Johanna Budwig diet (google her). My form of (prostate) cancer kills 99.9% of men yet I am cancer free for 2 years now. Joe luaumahalo wrote: > > > > > > List, > > > > For at least 10 years I have not done vitamin C without > > menadione. It is so automatic that I forgot to mention it. I do > > want to say this: that when a cancer patient comes in who is close to > > death, ascorbate with menadione is one of the first things for which > > I reach. I also think that IV magnesium, lipoic acid, and albumin > > are also undervalued. > > > > > > > Please let me know where your clinic is in California. My son is in > the last stages of Glioblastoma. He was diagnosed in Nov. 2007 and > we're interested in getting Vit. C infusions for him. > Thank You, > Marilyn > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Graeme, 25 gms C with 50 mg menadione bisulfite 50-100 gms C with 100 mg menadione bisufite I occasionally use a third ampule of menadione. I have seen research that showed no enhancement of ascorbate with K1, mixed results with K2, very good results with K3. Don't give menadione to babies. Menadione is often good for cancer pain. I don't use menadione with vit B6 nor with NAC as the effect is lessened. Good luck, At 07:08 AM 2/14/2009, you wrote: >Dear > >menadione > >What dose do you use and for how long? >Any thought about a k2 precursor rather than k3? > >Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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