Re: High dose vitamin C injections promoted cancer growth in our studies

[Guest guest]

Dr Kumar,

Thank you for admonition. I used honest duses 1-3-6-9 g daily(at present 630

mg )

Affirmative of effects was not. Happily, this did not change, dynamics of

height Ca125.

Unfortunately, publications include contradictory arguments about

antioxidants supplements.

Who I can believe ?

http://www.canceraction.org.gg/inext.htm

http://www.stopping-cancer-naturally.org/uk/index.html

I have a subject, which is worthy doctorates from both worlds.

In Poland I did not get reasonable answers about this dilemma.

D Kumar,

Can you agree to express in this subject, where publications are mutually

contradictory?

Can I introduce my serious scientific problem ?( about function glutathione

)

Jan

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of drKumar JK

Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:42 AM

Subject: [ ] High dose vitamin C injections promoted cancer growth

in our studies

We have tried high dose Vit C in some advanced cancers like

breast,colon.pancreas and lung cancers.The results are NIL.In fact it

promoted cancer growth and there are many studies to support it.We had to

stop Vit C and bring these patients back into remission.We are convinced Vit

C promotes cancer growth.Be vigilant if you vennture into this high dose Vit

C treatment.

Kumar

[Guest guest]

I have never heard Vitamin C promoting cancer or not working at all.

Linus pauling believed no healing can take place without the presence of Vitamin

C. I do believe it is possible to get a low quality Vitamin C even injectable.

We have tried high dose Vit C in some advanced cancers like breast,colon.

pancreas and lung cancers.The results are NIL.In fact it promoted cancer growth

and there are many studies to support it.We had to stop Vit C and bring these

patients back into remission.We are convinced Vit C promotes cancer growth.Be

vigilant if you vennture into this high dose Vit C treatment.

Kumar

[Guest guest]

This recently published study indicates good safety but no responses,

unfortunately:

Hoffer LJ, Levine M, Assouline S, Melnychuk D, Padayatty SJ, diuk

K, Rousseau C, Robitaille L, WH Jr.

Phase I clinical trial of i.v. ascorbic acid in advanced malignancy.

Ann Oncol. 2008 Jul 25.PMID: 18544557

It should be noted:

" Only five in 5,000 compounds that enter preclinical testing make it to

human testing. One of these five tested in people is approved. " ~ Food

and Drug Administration: From Test Tube to Patient

Why is the failure rate so high?

One reason is that tumors that are implanted in mice are not the same

as tumors that develop naturally in the host. Also human and mouse

biology are not the same, and tumor-host interactions are very

different. Finally responses (being active) is not the same as being

beneficial. Many treatments affect tumor growth or shrink tumors but do

not provide clinical benefit: improved survival.

Meanwhile, IV C will be attractive to many patients because ... it's a

vitamin. But vitamin C given directly into the blood at high doses

could have toxicities, or, could act as an oxidant under some

circumstances (if blood levels of iron are high for example).

~ Karl

www.lymphomation.org

>

> We have tried high dose Vit C in some advanced cancers like

breast,colon.pancreas and lung cancers.The results are NIL.In fact it

promoted cancer growth and there are many studies to support it.We had

to stop Vit C and bring these patients back into remission.We are

convinced Vit C promotes cancer growth.Be vigilant if you vennture into

this high dose Vit C treatment.

> Kumar

>

[Guest guest]

I had lot of confidence in high dose VitC atleast theoritically after going

thro'many papers and study of Linus ing about efffectiveness of VitC in

cancers.After trying this therapy in our clinic,I would admit this is one of the

therapies that has given nil results rather promoting cancer growth.So we have

stopped this therapy after failure in many cancer patients.Here is an article

that goes with lack of clinical efficacy of Vit c in cancers.If you have stomach

cancer avoid Vit C like plague.

http://www.juiceguy.com/Vitamin-C-is-a-fake.shtml

 

  P/S;Recently,we had total remmsion in an advanced bilateral inflammatory

breast cancer with mets to lungs(had earlier palliative chemo)that was given few

months of survival.We  treated her  with alternative therapies and were thrilled

to see total remission in just 2 months!!!I(mass diaappeared in the left breast

with total disappearance of nodes in the lungs).I  will detail the protocol when

I find time. 

Dr.Kumar

STUDIO EEG-BIOFEEDBACK_POLAND <soliserw@...> wrote:

Dr Kumar,

Thank you for admonition. I used honest duses 1-3-6-9 g daily(at present 630mg )

Affirmative of effects was not. Happily, this did not change, dynamics of height

Ca125. Unfortunately, publications include contradictory arguments about

antioxidants supplements.

Who I can believe ?

http://www.cancerac tion.org. gg/inext. htm

http://www.stopping -cancer-naturall y.org/uk/ index.html

I have a subject, which is worthy doctorates from both worlds.

In Poland I did not get reasonable answers about this dilemma.

D Kumar, Can you agree to express in this subject, where publications are

mutually contradictory?

Can I introduce my serious scientific problem ?( about function glutathione)

Jan

[Guest guest]

I recently had an IV-C treatment and then late that day went for a blood

test to check my genes for CML. They called me back and have to repeat the

test, because they said that my blood DNA had been damaged! I went online

after the phone call and googled " blood DNA damage " and it can be caused by

intravenous vitamin C.

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008, wrote:

I have never heard Vitamin C promoting cancer or not working at all. Linus

pauling believed no healing can take place without the presence of Vitamin C. I

do believe it is possible to get a low quality Vitamin C even injectable.

>

> We have tried high dose Vit C in some advanced cancers like breast,colon.

pancreas and lung cancers.The results are NIL.In fact it promoted cancer growth

and there are many studies to support it.We had to stop Vit C and bring these

patients back into remission.We are convinced Vit C promotes cancer growth.Be

vigilant if you vennture into this high dose Vit C treatment.

[Guest guest]

In my experience the type of Vitamin C used is extrememly important as it

should be beet or tapioca derived and according to Dr. Tokomoto of BioImmune

there should be other vitamins added such as B vitamins. I used to have the

" recipe " that he recommended but cannot put my hands on it. Also, for

advanced cancers the IV should be given every day over a 4-5 hour period, at

least 75 grams and never just as a stand-alone treatment. Other supplements

are needed along with healthy diet, coffee enemas, liver support, etc. 3x's

weekly is not likely to give a good response.

I have read where some people have had good results in following Dr.

Tokomoto's protocol.

Having said the above, it would not be my first recommendation for beating

cancer.

Asparagus is also something great to use in a cancer protocol. Chi's

Enterprise makes a great asparagus tea. From their site: Asparagus Extract

is derived from the whole, organically grown plant, Asparagus officinalis

Linn. To give you an idea of how potent our product is, each 5-gram tea bag

(3-4 capsules) is extracted from 1/2 lb of asparagus and asparagus root.

Be Well

Loretta

[Guest guest]

At 06:53 AM 8/6/2008, you wrote:

>I had lot of confidence in high dose VitC atleast theoritically ...

><http://www.juiceguy.com/Vitamin-C-is-a-fake.shtml>http://www.juiceguy.com/Vita\

min-C-is-a-fake.shtml

The citation above was written 24 years ago and published in a right

wing contrarian Lyndon LaRouche's political paper, EIR. Arthur

was at war with Linus ing. See:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Oregon_Institute_of_Science_and_Medic\

ine

You don't get good science when tremendous egos, big money, and

political extremism come into play.

I am quoting from this Juice Guy source:

" The Mayo Clinic goes out and does a study to prove ing wrong -

and that's easy... "

What kind of science is this? Not a study to find out the facts, but

adversarial science, using science as a stick to hit someone on the

head. It is a little galling to read, " and that's easy. " If Mr.

Juice Guy perused any chemistry text written by ing he would

realize what formidable intellect has been lost to the world. I have

read ing and he is not without sin. He once wrote " regime " when

he clearly meant " regimen. " Fie !!!

Karl posted a citation that poo-poo'd ascorbate:

Ann Oncol. 2008 Jul 25.

Phase I clinical trial of i.v. ascorbic acid in advanced malignancy.

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Hoffer%20\

LJ%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_\

DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>Hoffer

LJ,

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Levine%20\

M%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_D\

iscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>Levine

M,

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Assouline\

%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubme\

d_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>Assouline

S,

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Melnychuk\

%20D%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubme\

d_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>Melnychuk

D,

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Padayatty\

%20SJ%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubm\

ed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>Padayatty

SJ,

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22diuk%\

20K%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed\

_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>diuk

K,

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Rousseau%\

20C%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed\

_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>Rousseau

C,

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Robitaill\

e%20L%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubm\

ed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>Robitaille

L,

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22%20\

WH%20Jr%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pu\

bmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>

WH Jr.

Montreal Centre for Experimental Therapeutics in Cancer, Lady

Institute for Medical Research, McGill University and the Jewish

General Hospital, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

BACKGROUND: Ascorbic acid is a widely used and controversial

alternative cancer treatment. In millimolar concentrations, it is

selectively cytotoxic to many cancer cell lines and has in vivo

anticancer activity when administered alone or together with other

agents. We carried out a dose-finding phase I and pharmacokinetic

study of i.v. ascorbic acid in patients with advanced malignancies.

PATIENTS AND METHODS: Patients with advanced cancer or hematologic

malignancy were assigned to sequential cohorts infused with 0.4, 0.6,

0.9 and 1.5 g ascorbic acid/kg body weight three times weekly.

RESULTS: Adverse events and toxicity were minimal at all dose levels.

No patient had an objective anticancer response. CONCLUSIONS:

High-dose i.v. ascorbic acid was well tolerated but failed to

demonstrate anticancer activity when administered to patients with

previously treated advanced malignancies. The promise of this

approach may lie in combination with cytotoxic or other redox-active molecules.

-----------------------------------------------

Another miserable study published in a journal that is not about to

publish anything that praises ascorbate. With this kind of approach

you can easily make any therapy look bad. What is the purpose of

this investigation? Getting published? More grant money?

If you want to know the truth you take a completely different

approach. You go to those who are getting good results with

ascorbate, you hang around and watch what they do, see how they

screen their patients, note what other drugs and supplements are used

(or avoided), and ask them their opinions of why others fail. How

many researchers add menadione, subtract B-6, monitor G6PD/hemolysis?

Fresh asparagus is very high in ascorbate: 2,500 calories can contain

as much as 12 grams. Seven years ago I got a call from an elderly

woman with non-small cell lung cancer. She had no money for the

usual meds. I told her to eat plenty of asparagus with every meal

even if it came from a can. What would she be afraid of -- getting

cancer 30 years from now? The woman is still alive with no evidence

of cancer.

[Guest guest]

We have found zero results with high dose I.V. Vit C in many cancer patients. It

has shown continued cancer growth seen in combination of other methods. This was

only a caution to those simply depend on Vit C ignoring other methods.

This is what we advise - to consume VitC in natural form. This applies even to

other valuable vitamins and minerals. Of course eating only Asparagus wouldn't

cure cancers.

wrote:

Fresh asparagus is very high in ascorbate: 2,500 calories can contain

as much as 12 grams. Seven years ago I got a call from an elderly

woman with non-small cell lung cancer. She had no money for the

usual meds. I told her to eat plenty of asparagus with every meal

even if it came from a can. What would she be afraid of -- getting

cancer 30 years from now? The woman is still alive with no evidence

of cancer.

[Guest guest]

I would appreciate quote some clinical studies in your practice where you have

found results with Ascorbic acid infusions in cancer patients. We see both for

and against intravenous ascorbic acid efficacy in cancers. When it comes to

individual cancer patient in your office and you have used this therapy and if

it has shown results kindly share. We see many many theories and studies that

are never reproducible in spite of all structures used in virtual practice.

Ascorbic acid is one among them. I am still searching for

one cancer patient that is put into remission with VitC. Using other therapies

like menadione is another therapy by itself. Monotherapy with VitC and

remmission so far doesn't exist. G6PD deficiency is risk by itself before you

give VitC. This is another risk factor. If not checked you woould kill the

patient by massive haemolysis.

-Chakra.

Another miserable study published in a journal that is not about to

publish anything that praises ascorbate. With this kind of approach

you can easily make any therapy look bad. What is the purpose of

this investigation? Getting published? More grant money?

If you want to know the truth you take a completely different

approach. You go to those who are getting good results with

ascorbate, you hang around and watch what they do, see how they

screen their patients, note what other drugs and supplements are used

(or avoided), and ask them their opinions of why others fail. How

many researchers add menadione, subtract B-6, monitor G6PD/hemolysis?

Fresh asparagus is very high in ascorbate: 2,500 calories can contain

as much as 12 grams. Seven years ago I got a call from an elderly

woman with non-small cell lung cancer. She had no money for the

usual meds. I told her to eat plenty of asparagus with every meal

even if it came from a can. What would she be afraid of -- getting

cancer 30 years from now? The woman is still alive with no evidence

of cancer.

[Guest guest]

I suggest you guys check out the work of Dr Cathcart, MD, and colleagues

with the American College for Advancement in Medicine. Cathcart has been using

intravenous vitamin C for more than 30 years in almost every condition including

AIDS. Also, instead of asking for studies, why don't you read the

literature? You could start with Ewan Cameron and Linus ing, who

established -- again more trhan 30 years ago -- that IV vitamin C prolonged

survival in patients with ternminal cancer -- their paper was published in the

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA (1976 Oct;73(10):3685-9),

not exactly an obscure journal.

Cathcart's website is http://www.orthomed.com/ He may be the single most

experienced physician using IV C. He gives his recommendation for what form of

C to use and how, saying, " I hear all sorts of weird stories from patients who

have gotten ascorbate elsewhere. I do not know if it is an acid problem (because

ascorbic acid was used rather than sodium ascorbate) or whether some colleges

get carried away with what other things they add to the intravenous solutions. "

Also from his site:

" Animal experimentation to determine the toxicity of ascorbate is a waste of

time and money. First, I have already used 60 to 120 grams of intravenous

sodium ascorbate since 1975 in over 2,000 human patients given in 2 to 6 hours

without problems. I have given myself 180 grams of sodium ascorbate in 8 hours

and felt great. There are at least 100 or more physicians (mostly members of

ACAM) who have also used massive doses of ascorbate. Because I do not give

these IVC's in a hospital setting I have not used it is patients with kidney

failure. I have used oral ascorbic acid in the treatment of 2 patients with

hemachromatosis. "

Simon.

[Guest guest]

Seems to me there was a published study, by the allopathics, revealing that

Intravenous Vitamin C was effective in dealing with cancer. It was also

brought to the attention of list members.

I suspect it can be found easily.

It seems reasonable that this clinic could have had difficulties for any number

of reasons and perhaps the 'warning' was extreme and should have simply been a

report on their failures leaving it up to others to determine whether or not

they need to heed the warning. Joe C.

[Guest guest]

Here's on site to explore IV Vitamin C

Joe C.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16567755

[Guest guest]

Chakra,

Most clinical studies aren't worth a bucket of warm spit. To find

out if a therapy is useful it is best to avoid preset

notions. Reread your message and count the number of absolutes that you used.

Over the years I've learned to isolate our work from anything that

would skew the quest for truth. Number one is the pursuit of

money. When a treatment brings the cash rolling into the clinic it

is hard to think of it as anything but wonderful. We made our

operation non-profit to avoid this. It works. Ten years ago I was

convinced that mu-trioxobiscarboxyethylgermanium (sesquioxide) had to

be one of the world's best cancer killers, but it was just too

expensive to use.

As a non-profit we had a contributor who donated multiple kilos. We

could use it whenever we felt like it with no consideration to the

cost. Over the years we noticed that it tended to stay on the

shelf. We might use it in a nebulizer for certain lung cancers, but

that was about it.

On the other hand we started using pau d'arco tea about the same

time. Over the years we found ourselves reaching for it more and

more. It often seemed to work as a stand alone, it seemed to help

most other therapies and hindered none that we noticed.

Another example is the use of Zometa. Most clinics switched from

pamidronate. It allowed a 15 minute infusion instead of a two-hour

infusion and the profits were higher. We noticed that often cancers

that were in remission started to grow again. We switched back to

the earlier drug. The same with dosage. As long as there are no

dental problems we use pamidronate weekly, though often in smaller

doses. We get much better results than those who use it monthly. It

has been known for over ten years that it prevents mets to the

bone. Insurance won't pay for it until bone mets are proven. This

is because it will typically cost insurance $1,000 to $2,000 per

injection. We give it away free to anyone doing our program.

Antineoplastons will cost as much as $8,000 per month to obtain this

in Texas. We gave it away free for years. I have slowed on this as

I don't consider it very effective.

I remember when someone from your own country, Manju Ray, was

attacked unmercifully for using methylglyoxal with vitamin C. None

of her critics could claim that it didn't have value. They were

outraged because it did have value and a researcher outsmarted them

in putting together a clinical trial. Manju's husband also works at

the Institute in Kolkata. He donates his entire salary back to the

institute. I am convinced that part of the reason their work is so

successful is that they are not in this for the money and they will

do whatever it takes to stop cancer no matter how the industry

protests. Twice now she has been an honored guest at our Center in

Del Mar, California.

I do think that medicine would progress at lightning speed if both

arrogance and the pursuit of money were removed from the equation.

At 10:25 AM 8/7/2008, you wrote:

>I would appreciate quote some clinical studies in your practice

>where you have found results with Ascorbic acid infusions in cancer

>patients. We see both for and against intravenous ascorbic acid

>efficacy in cancers. When it comes to individual cancer patient in

>your office and you have used this therapy and if it has shown

>results kindly share. We see many many theories and studies that are

>never reproducible in spite of all structures used in virtual

>practice. Ascorbic acid is one among them. I am still searching for

>one cancer patient that is put into remission with VitC. Using other

>therapies like menadione is another therapy by itself. Monotherapy

>with VitC and remmission so far doesn't exist. G6PD deficiency is

>risk by itself before you give VitC. This is another risk factor. If

>not checked you woould kill the patient by massive haemolysis.

>-Chakra.

[Guest guest]

,

Read your first sentence. That is what I was stressing the same in my last

mail. You would give many links to support the therapies.It would be meaningful

only if we could get the same results in our clinical set up. But is doesn't

happen for all remedies and some could be dangerous like VitC if used as single

remedy. We do have charity clinic and we do use many ayurvedic remedies working

better tha VitC, pamidronate e.t.c. We have sophisticated detoxyfying

procedures like Pancha Karma that nothing that is available there on this planet

could be compared with its efficacy. So we are in constantly search of

poorman's remedy for those cancer patients that are thrown out on the corridors

of govt. hospitals here and can't afford private hospitals.

Regarding Manju Ray, I know her better. She is not a medical doctor but gave

wide media publicity and many cancer patients ran to her only to be exploited

with their money. Later she has been labelled a publicity stunt and his works

are proven not valid. We have received many patients that had been treated with

Manju Ray and landed uo with complications. Mind you,in India people including

doctors are open minded to alternative therapies but at the same time harsh

towards dangerous remedies like Manju Ray propagated long time ago.

We need to be umbiased and not hesitate to say if something doesn't work than

quoting somebody's work that worked for him/her and hence should work for one

and all. Manju Ray you quoted is sufficient to prove it. Please don't advertise

like this. Many unaware cancer patients may take this seriously may land up with

situations like many patients had.

Being open and without ego helps one whom we are healing.

Chakra

Chakra,

Most clinical studies aren't worth a bucket of warm spit. To find

out if a therapy is useful it is best to avoid preset notions. Reread your

message and count the number of absolutes that you used.

Over the years I've learned to isolate our work from anything that

would skew the quest for truth. Number one is the pursuit of

money. When a treatment brings the cash rolling into the clinic it

is hard to think of it as anything but wonderful. We made our

operation non-profit to avoid this. It works. Ten years ago I was

convinced that mu-trioxobiscarboxy ethylgermanium (sesquioxide) had to be one of

the world's best cancer killers, but it was just too

expensive to use.

As a non-profit we had a contributor who donated multiple kilos. We

could use it whenever we felt like it with no consideration to the

cost. Over the years we noticed that it tended to stay on the

shelf. We might use it in a nebulizer for certain lung cancers, but

that was about it.

On the other hand we started using pau d'arco tea about the same

time. Over the years we found ourselves reaching for it more and

more. It often seemed to work as a stand alone, it seemed to help

most other therapies and hindered none that we noticed.

Another example is the use of Zometa. Most clinics switched from

pamidronate. It allowed a 15 minute infusion instead of a two-hour

infusion and the profits were higher. We noticed that often cancers

that were in remission started to grow again. We switched back to

the earlier drug. The same with dosage. As long as there are no

dental problems we use pamidronate weekly, though often in smaller

doses. We get much better results than those who use it monthly. It

has been known for over ten years that it prevents mets to the

bone. Insurance won't pay for it until bone mets are proven. This

is because it will typically cost insurance $1,000 to $2,000 per

injection. We give it away free to anyone doing our program.

Antineoplastons will cost as much as $8,000 per month to obtain this

in Texas. We gave it away free for years. I have slowed on this as

I don't consider it very effective.

I remember when someone from your own country, Manju Ray, was

attacked unmercifully for using methylglyoxal with vitamin C. None

of her critics could claim that it didn't have value. They were

outraged because it did have value and a researcher outsmarted them

in putting together a clinical trial. Manju's husband also works at

the Institute in Kolkata. He donates his entire salary back to the

institute. I am convinced that part of the reason their work is so

successful is that they are not in this for the money and they will

do whatever it takes to stop cancer no matter how the industry

protests. Twice now she has been an honored guest at our Center in

Del Mar, California.

I do think that medicine would progress at lightning speed if both

arrogance and the pursuit of money were removed from the equation.

[Guest guest]

Chakra,

Some clinics get very poor to mediocre results with vitamin C. I can

guess some of the reasons, but not all. Perhaps you would get better

results if you did a little conceptual shift. Try thinking of

ascorbic acid more like a reducing sugar. We do get routine good

results with our ascorbate strategies, but every once in a while

you'll see a cancer that will plow right through it.

Pamidronate is a no-brainer for most cases of breast, prostate, and

lung cancer. It is safe as long as there are no dental infections

and it does prevent clastic bone lesions.

As to Manju, she does charge for the cost of methylglyoxal (MG). It

is not cheap. My results with methylglyoxal are similar to those

that she has reported. It does not seem to work after chemotherapy

and it would be a poor choice if one were to use DCA, CoQ-10, etc. I

have also made and used mitoguazone (a methylglyoxal derivative)

which is useful prior to IPT. Methylglyoxal can be made very

effective, even curative, with B-6 deprivation, but a price must be

paid in increased toxicity. Manju has been working with some

researchers at s Hopkins to put it in nanoparticles. I think she

likes chitin. I normally like polylactate-polyglycolate for

nanoparticle delivery. We have other differences. She likes to add

melatonin and creatine to her MG protocol. I haven't seen increased benefit.

Chakra, the day may come when you get a terminal patient where

nothing, nothing, nothing seems to help and it is crunch time. You

might try methylglyoxal. We have a patient, a world famous

immunologist with over 350 papers in the peer-review literature, who

was diagnosed four years ago with terminal renal cancer. At that

time he was told by the top RCC MDs that no matter what he did he had

six months at best. He started on methylglyoxal. He now lives a

normal life although he still has lesions. Both he and his wife are

members of our Board of Directors.

June 16th of this year we were contacted by a woman in Washington

state who was told by her government-licensed MDs that she had two

weeks left to live. She had hepatocellular carcinoma and 2/3 of her

liver had been removed. She now had a massive inoperable epigastric

tumor impinging on her celiac plexus and causing enormous pain. She

had tumors extending from her neck, along her esophagus, through her

thorax, and on down to her pelvis. Her radiologist told her that if

she wanted to get well she would have to search outside the US.

Her husband decided to come here. I wasn't going to take them but I

found out that they were selling all their furniture to come here. I

told Dave and to come down immediately. They drove the

distance. Dave thought that she would die on the way. When they

came she could hardly shuffle along. She was large -- well over 200 pounds.

I had a central line installed for IV's and then we started with as

simple a program as we could muster. This included Dr. Khachatrian's

methods for 24 days. I additionally had her on as strict a diet as I

have ever put anyone. Most of the day she would lay in bed in

extreme pain and shiver. When her treatment was over I sent her home

with her diet.

Yesterday she and her husband diddly-bopped into our Center. They

had packed up and moved to San Diego to be close to the Center. Her

tumors were almost gone and so was much of her weight. She had gone

from a size 22 dress to a size 14 and she looked extremely fit and

healthy. I have never seen anyone with so much energy.

The next hour was full of crying and laughing as they told of their

oncologist's reaction after viewing their new CT scans. They would

not tell him that they had done an alternative treatment because he

had expressed such a tremendous hostility to the idea. Dave and

kept asking him what happened to the tumor and he would

refuse to answer, he'd just change the subject. They asked for copies

of the records and were refused.

Before list members sell their first born and come here, please

understand that this case is an exception. During the same period we

had another woman who was just as ill. She had breast cancer, colon

cancer (a second primary) and cirrhosis of the liver. She came with

approximately 12 liters of ascites -- we drained eight when her

breathing became labored. I tried corseting but she found it

uncomfortable and would not sleep in it. Her abdomen refilled. Dr.

Khachatrian was here and we tried his protocol. It did not work.

Both woman were in their fifties. I think the second woman had given

up before coming here. I assume this when they become very lax about

their protocol.

[Guest guest]

,

May I know your credentials? Are you a medical doctor? If so, could you tell

where you received your medical education?

I have mentioned to avoid Vit C as a 'sole' therapy. I know many terminal

patients just go for single Vit C therapy only to land up with more advancement

of the disease. Well you say you have used VitC with combination of therapies

good results. How do you determine to what extent VI C contributed towards the

improvement? My contention is not to use Vit C as a single therapy in case if

not you would like to give it up. We have used high quality VitC with optimum

protocols but we have got very discouraging results.

Regarding Manju, doctors call her 'quack'. You have been in support of her

therapy. Manju cliamed she has invented " MAGIC BULLET " to " CURE " all types of

cancers. Any qualified therapist would look not at such claims as there is no

MAGIC BULLET to CURE cancers. She made lots of money from innocent gullible

patients when she claimed she invented " MAGIC BULLET. " We have many patients

treated by her only to end their lives. If you support a " MAGIC BULLET " non

medical claiming a " CURE FOR ALL CANCERS, " I could very well understand. Thats

why above questions for you.

Others parts of your post about Dr. Khachatrian, I don't like to comment till

we see substantial studies.

I could go on giving our studies with fantastic detoxyfying cytotoxic

Panchakarma therapy that we recently put an advanced breast cancer,

hepatocellular carcinoma and leukaemia(CLL) but I wouldn't like to deviate or

divert the attention from the topic we had discussed.

Chakra

Chakra,

Some clinics get very poor to mediocre results with vitamin C. I can

guess some of the reasons, but not all. Perhaps you would get better

results if you did a little conceptual shift. Try thinking of

ascorbic acid more like a reducing sugar. We do get routine good

results with our ascorbate strategies, but every once in a while

you'll see a cancer that will plow right through it.

Pamidronate is a no-brainer for most cases of breast, prostate, and

lung cancer. It is safe as long as there are no dental infections

and it does prevent clastic bone lesions.

As to Manju, she does charge for the cost of methylglyoxal (MG). It

is not cheap. My results with methylglyoxal are similar to those

that she has reported. It does not seem to work after chemotherapy

and it would be a poor choice if one were to use DCA, CoQ-10, etc. I

have also made and used mitoguazone (a methylglyoxal derivative)

which is useful prior to IPT. Methylglyoxal can be made very

effective, even curative, with B-6 deprivation, but a price must be

paid in increased toxicity. Manju has been working with some

researchers at s Hopkins to put it in nanoparticles. I think she

likes chitin. I normally like polylactate- polyglycolate for

nanoparticle delivery. We have other differences. She likes to add

melatonin and creatine to her MG protocol. I haven't seen increased benefit..

Chakra, the day may come when you get a terminal patient where

nothing, nothing, nothing seems to help and it is crunch time. You

might try methylglyoxal. We have a patient, a world famous

immunologist with over 350 papers in the peer-review literature, who

was diagnosed four years ago with terminal renal cancer. At that

time he was told by the top RCC MDs that no matter what he did he had

six months at best. He started on methylglyoxal. He now lives a

normal life although he still has lesions. Both he and his wife are

members of our Board of Directors.

June 16th of this year we were contacted by a woman in Washington

state who was told by her government-licensed MDs that she had two

weeks left to live. She had hepatocellular carcinoma and 2/3 of her

liver had been removed. She now had a massive inoperable epigastric

tumor impinging on her celiac plexus and causing enormous pain. She

had tumors extending from her neck, along her esophagus, through her

thorax, and on down to her pelvis. Her radiologist told her that if

she wanted to get well she would have to search outside the US.

......She was large -- well over 200 pounds.

I had a central line installed for IV's and then we started with as

simple a program as we could muster. This included Dr. Khachatrian' s

methods for 24 days. I additionally had her on as strict a diet as I

have ever put anyone. Most of the day she would lay in bed in

extreme pain and shiver. When her treatment was over I sent her home

with her diet.

Yesterday she and her husband diddly-bopped into our Center. They

had packed up and moved to San Diego to be close to the Center. Her

tumors were almost gone and so was much of her weight. She had gone

from a size 22 dress to a size 14 and she looked extremely fit and

healthy. I have never seen anyone with so much energy......<snip>

[Guest guest]

As to Manju, she does charge for the cost of methylglyoxal (MG). It

is not cheap. My results with methylglyoxal are similar to those

that she has reported. It does not seem to work after chemotherapy

and it would be a poor choice if one were to use DCA, CoQ-10, etc. I

have also made and used mitoguazone (a methylglyoxal derivative)

which is useful prior to IPT. Methylglyoxal can be made very

effective, even curative, with B-6 deprivation, but a price must be

paid in increased toxicity. Manju has been working with some

researchers at s Hopkins to put it in nanoparticles.....

>>>>There was a warning on this protocol. Methylglyoxol could be toxic to liver

enough to cause liver failure. It is the most toxic alternative cancer protocol.

Bill Handerson gave very strong precaution on this drug. It could be more toxic

than chemo.

Chakra, the day may come when you get a terminal patient where

nothing, nothing, nothing seems to help and it is crunch time. You

might try methylglyoxal.

>>>>Never never try this!!!Nothing could be more damaging than this in terminal

cancers.!!

....Both woman were in their fifties. I think the second woman had given up

before coming here. I assume this when they become very lax about their

protocol.

>>>>>So you mean Dr.Khachtrians therapy could be useful only in some cases like

other therapies and no different from SodaBicarb where Dr.Tullio has bettere

results in such cases.

-Rah

[Guest guest]

My sick cancer visitor, vacationing in my country today initially had an

angioplasty 3 years ago. They diagnosed him with atherosclerosis in his

country. They put a stent. But they did not cure the underlying cause

of atherosclerosis, which is a deficiency in vitamin C and a deficiency

on RAW fruit FATS / RAW animal FATS.

One of the consultants we saw suggested intravenous vitamin C therapy.

I thought about it for one evening.

Then I decided to instead suggest nutritional oral vitamin C therapy by

blendering raw guavas and raw papayas, then making sure each meal had

the fruit + fat combination. Say raw guavas + raw extra virgin olive

oil / fertilized egg yolks / avocados.

Guavas and Papayas are the highest vitamin C fruit we have in the

Philippines.

This afternoon I added fresh wheatgrass juice to his meals, said to have

vitamin C too.

Food is always safer. The stomach knows what to do with food.

Happy cancer curing everyone,

Edwin

http://www.curemanual.com

[Guest guest]

I believe the BioImmune.com protocol (which consists of

non-corn-derived IV vit. C and other treatments) has been administered

to tens of thousands of cancer patients, and they appear to have great

success.

Here are some studies on IVC:

http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2000/pdf/2000-v15n04-p201.pdf

www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/may2007_itn_01.htm

www.lef.org/newsletter/2008/0104_clinical-trial-vitamin-c-non-hodgkin-lymphoma.h\

tm?source=eNewsLetter2008Wk1-2 & key=Article+Exclusive & l=0

www.iconmag.co.uk/alternatives_to_chemotherapy.htm (Dove Clinic)

www.brightspot.org (Hugh Riordan, M.D., IVC researcher, deceased)

www.mnwelldir.org/docs/cancer1/altthrpy.htm

http://www.canceraction.org.gg/index2.htm

http://healthy.net/scr/news.asp?Id=7915 (NIH)

www.lef.org/news/LefDailyNews.htm?NewsID=2705 & Section=VITAMINS & source=DHB_050914\

& key=Body+ContinueReading

http://doctoryourself.com/cancer_hoffer.html

www.doctoryourself.com/riordan1.html

www.aidan-az.com/articles/vitaminc.pdf (Riordans)

www.annieappleseedproject.org/amcolforadin1.html (H. Riordan, 2003)

www.lef.org/newsletter/2008/0104_clinical-trial-vitamin-c-non-hodgkin-lymphoma.h\

tm?source=eNewsLetter2008Wk1-2 & key=Article+Exclusive & l=0

www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/may2007_itn_01.htm

www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris (click " Articles by Date " and 7/21/04

Vit. C heading)

http://cancerdecisions.com/071804.html

Cameron E.

Protocol for the use of vitamin C in the treatment of cancer.

Med Hypotheses. 1991 Nov;36(3):190-4. Review.

PMID: 1787808 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Riordan HD, Hunninghake RB, Riordan NH, JJ, Meng X, P,

Casciari JJ, MJ, Miranda-Massari JR, Mora EM, rio N,

A.

Intravenous ascorbic acid: protocol for its application and use.

P R Health Sci J. 2003 Sep;22(3):287-90.

PMID: 14619456 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Padayatty SJ, Sun H, Wang Y, Riordan HD, Hewitt SM, Katz A, Wesley RA,

Levine M. Vitamin C pharmacokinetics: implications for oral and

intravenous use.

Ann Intern Med. 2004 Apr 6;140(7):533-7.

PMID: 15068981 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Jaffey M. Vitamin C and cancer: examination of the Vale of Leven trial

results using broad inductive reasoning.

Med Hypotheses. 1982 Jan;8(1):49-84.

PMID: 7038410 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Riordan HD, Riordan NH, JA, Casciari JJ, Hunninghake R,

MJ, Mora EM, Miranda-Massari JR, rio N, A.

Intravenous vitamin C as a chemotherapy agent: a report on clinical cases.

P R Health Sci J. 2004 Jun;23(2):115-8.

PMID: 15377059 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Head KA. Ascorbic acid in the prevention and treatment of cancer.

Altern Med Rev. 1998 Jun;3(3):174-86. Review.

PMID: 9630735 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Padayatty SJ, Levine M. Reevaluation of ascorbate in cancer

treatment: emerging evidence, open minds and serendipity.

J Am Coll Nutr. 2000 Aug;19(4):423-5.

PMID: 10963459 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Cameron E, ing L. Supplemental ascorbate in the supportive

treatment of cancer: Prolongation of survival times in terminal human

cancer.

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1976 Oct;73(10):3685-9.

PMID: 1068480 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Cameron E, A. Innovation vs. quality control: an

'unpublishable' clinical trial of supplemental ascorbate in incurable

cancer.

Med Hypotheses. 1991 Nov;36(3):185-9.

PMID: 1787807 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Gonin JM, Nguyen H, Gonin R, Sarna A, Michels A, Masri-Imad F,

Bommareddy G, Chassaing C, Wainer I, Loya A, Cary D, Barker LF, Assefi

A, Greenspan R, Mahoney D, Wilcox CS.

Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) in the treatment of cancer.

J Med Soc N J. 1980 Jan;77(1):49. No abstract available.

PMID: 6928213 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Pavlovic S, Fraser R. Orthomolecular oncology: a mechanistic view of

intravenous ascorbate's chemotherapeutic activity.

P R Health Sci J. 2002 Mar;21(1):39-41. Review.

PMID: 12013679 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Block,Md Mark Mead, MS. " Vitamin C in Alternative Cancer

Treatment: Historical Background " . Integrative Cancer Therapies

2(2);2003 pp 147-154.

Padayatty S, Hugh D. Riordan, He Sun. Vitamin C Pharmacokinetics:

Implications for Oral and Intravenous Use " . ls of Internal Medicine

2004; 140: 533-537

Tamayo C, MA " Vitamin C as cancer treatment " . Alternative

Therapy in Health & Medicine, 2003 May-Jun;9(3):94-101.

Padayatty S, " Reevaluation of Ascorbate in Cancer Treatment: Emerging

evidence, Open Minds and Serendipity, " Journal of the American College of

Nutrition Vol.19, No.4, 423-425 (2000).

[Guest guest]

I believe it accellerated my cancer.

>

> We have tried high dose Vit C in some advanced cancers like

breast,colon.pancreas and lung cancers.The results are NIL.In fact it

promoted cancer growth and there are many studies to support it.We had

to stop Vit C and bring these patients back into remission.We are

convinced Vit C promotes cancer growth.Be vigilant if you vennture into

this high dose Vit C treatment.

> Kumar

>