Thalidomide

October 17, 2000

<A HREF= " http://www.thalidomide.ca/position.html " >Position Paper</A>

<A

HREF= " http://search.aol.com/redirect.adp?appname=QBP & query=%26%91%ac%82%7f%05%

d9%7b%ae%c6%1a%53%79%ee%7a%57%a7%07%43%e5%6d%d8%1b%69%ae%9f%e3%6e%35%36%c4%aa%

81%dd%af%e3%7f%5d%69%77%b0%f7%73%a5%8d%e2%c9%f1%f4%03%ee%7a%2e%d2%82%77%27%ba%

c3%bb%1d%06%6d%a3%95%33%da%23%d1%ea%22%0b%57%2b%83%e6%7b%10%34%da%45%59%f2%f8%

d5%1b%95%05%c1%2a%67%72%2d%3e%bf%2c%24%f0%90%27%f7%03%ed%a0 " >Encyclopedia.com

- Results for thalidomide</A> <A

HREF= " http://www.aidsinfonyc.org/network/simple/thalid.html " >Simple Facts

Sheets: thalidomide</A>

April 22, 2002

Joanna,

I don't know HOW I can help research, but if you can give me a few pointers,

let me know. I'd love to help out...

Kim

thalidomide

>

> Hi,

>

> I met a woman at Bangkok airport yesterday who teaches children in

Bangladesh how to make handcrafts so that they can support themselves when

their parents die of aids, (apparently dad goes into town, sleeps with

prostitutes and brings it home to mom and kids are left homeless and unless

they can support themselves are sold into prostitution).

>

> Anyway, she told me that 'they' are still giving thalidomide to moms and

that the effects are being shown on the limbless babies being born. I

started to quiz her.....who is giving this to the moms, where does it come

from, which company supplies it, is it old stock? etc etc. This woman

shook her head and said she didn't know (at this stage I nearly shook

her!!!!!!).

>

> I told her that this practise could be seen as illegal and she agreed, but

disappeared before I could get her name or the organisation she worked for.

>

> Any hints on how to follow this up. I'm wondering if this is thirty year

old dumped stock and want to know which pharma company whoudl be involved in

this.

>

> Any hints on where to start????

>

> Joanna

>

> ---------------------------------

>

April 23, 2002

Ii Family <jeffii@...> wrote:

Joanna,

I don't know HOW I can help research, but if you can give me a few pointers,

let me know. I'd love to help out...

Kim

I think I'll start by finding out the manufacturer and when manufactured ceased.

I need to determine if this is old 'dumped' stock or whether it is still being

manufactured for these markets.........

I'll let you know how I go....

Joanna

thalidomide

>

> Hi,

>

> I met a woman at Bangkok airport yesterday who teaches children in

Bangladesh how to make handcrafts so that they can support themselves when

their parents die of aids, (apparently dad goes into town, sleeps with

prostitutes and brings it home to mom and kids are left homeless and unless

they can support themselves are sold into prostitution).

>

> Anyway, she told me that 'they' are still giving thalidomide to moms and

that the effects are being shown on the limbless babies being born. I

started to quiz her.....who is giving this to the moms, where does it come

from, which company supplies it, is it old stock? etc etc. This woman

shook her head and said she didn't know (at this stage I nearly shook

her!!!!!!).

>

> I told her that this practise could be seen as illegal and she agreed, but

disappeared before I could get her name or the organisation she worked for.

>

> Any hints on how to follow this up. I'm wondering if this is thirty year

old dumped stock and want to know which pharma company whoudl be involved in

this.

>

> Any hints on where to start????

>

> Joanna

>

> ---------------------------------

>

April 23, 2002

Okay! Sounds good....

Kim

thalidomide

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I met a woman at Bangkok airport yesterday who teaches children in

> Bangladesh how to make handcrafts so that they can support themselves when

> their parents die of aids, (apparently dad goes into town, sleeps with

> prostitutes and brings it home to mom and kids are left homeless and

unless

> they can support themselves are sold into prostitution).

> >

> > Anyway, she told me that 'they' are still giving thalidomide to moms and

> that the effects are being shown on the limbless babies being born. I

> started to quiz her.....who is giving this to the moms, where does it come

> from, which company supplies it, is it old stock? etc etc. This woman

> shook her head and said she didn't know (at this stage I nearly shook

> her!!!!!!).

> >

> > I told her that this practise could be seen as illegal and she agreed,

but

> disappeared before I could get her name or the organisation she worked

for.

> >

> > Any hints on how to follow this up. I'm wondering if this is thirty

year

> old dumped stock and want to know which pharma company whoudl be involved

in

> this.

> >

> > Any hints on where to start????

> >

> > Joanna

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> >

November 9, 2004

In a message dated 11/9/04 8:03:48 AM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> I don't know if any of the

> folks on this list are old enough to remember Thalidomide. Quite a few

> pregnant women in Europe used that drug -- I forget what it was for --

> and their children were born with grotesque physical defects

Unfortunately, Gertie, I can vaguely remember this debacle. The drug was

used as a morning-sickness drug. It's now made a comeback and is used to treat

certain cancers.

" Blind Reason "

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

November 9, 2004

Hmmm...from morning-sickness to cancer. Interesting.

Re: Thalidomide

In a message dated 11/9/04 8:03:48 AM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> I don't know if any of the

> folks on this list are old enough to remember Thalidomide. Quite a few

> pregnant women in Europe used that drug -- I forget what it was for --

> and their children were born with grotesque physical defects

Unfortunately, Gertie, I can vaguely remember this debacle. The drug was

used as a morning-sickness drug. It's now made a comeback and is used to

treat

certain cancers.

" Blind Reason "

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

November 9, 2004

Hmmm...from morning-sickness to cancer. Interesting.

Re: Thalidomide

In a message dated 11/9/04 8:03:48 AM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> I don't know if any of the

> folks on this list are old enough to remember Thalidomide. Quite a few

> pregnant women in Europe used that drug -- I forget what it was for --

> and their children were born with grotesque physical defects

Unfortunately, Gertie, I can vaguely remember this debacle. The drug was

used as a morning-sickness drug. It's now made a comeback and is used to

treat

certain cancers.

" Blind Reason "

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

November 9, 2004

I was discussing the drug industry with a friend.

He mentioned that what happens is a little group will do research

and people with money will throw their money in about 20 of these.

Normally only one hits it big and then it's either bought by a drug

company or licensed. This way the drug companies like Pfizer don't

have to mess with the gamble of the experiments. Anyways it

takes so much money to get it to the FDA that they will do just about

anything

as we have seen. Millions.

So if they have this drug, even though it should be tossed, they have

all this money in it and so they recreate a use for it like Thalidomide

and Straterra, which is a failed antidepressant, which considering

the God aweful effects of the ones they did get FDA approval on

must have killed some people for them not to use it. So now we

have this great ADHD treatment that's " non-stimulant " , as they foist

it off, we can give our children. Great biz huh?

My suggestions:

1.Strengthen tort, don't reform it so as to keep the companies in some

check.

2.Don't trust the FDA at all (if you ever did)

3.Protect the natural vitamins and nutrional supplements from the FDA and

drug companies.

4.Inform everyone you can. It's the only way to beat the industry at this

game.

..

Re: Thalidomide

>

> In a message dated 11/9/04 8:03:48 AM Mountain Standard Time,

> SSRI medications writes:

>

> > I don't know if any of the

> > folks on this list are old enough to remember Thalidomide. Quite a few

> > pregnant women in Europe used that drug -- I forget what it was

> or --

> > and their children were born with grotesque physical defects

>

> Unfortunately, Gertie, I can vaguely remember this debacle. The drug was

> used as a morning-sickness drug. It's now made a comeback and is used to

> treat

> certain cancers.

>

> " Blind Reason "

> a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

> Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

> Unsafe At Any Dose

>

November 9, 2004

I was discussing the drug industry with a friend.

He mentioned that what happens is a little group will do research

and people with money will throw their money in about 20 of these.

Normally only one hits it big and then it's either bought by a drug

company or licensed. This way the drug companies like Pfizer don't

have to mess with the gamble of the experiments. Anyways it

takes so much money to get it to the FDA that they will do just about

anything

as we have seen. Millions.

So if they have this drug, even though it should be tossed, they have

all this money in it and so they recreate a use for it like Thalidomide

and Straterra, which is a failed antidepressant, which considering

the God aweful effects of the ones they did get FDA approval on

must have killed some people for them not to use it. So now we

have this great ADHD treatment that's " non-stimulant " , as they foist

it off, we can give our children. Great biz huh?

My suggestions:

1.Strengthen tort, don't reform it so as to keep the companies in some

check.

2.Don't trust the FDA at all (if you ever did)

3.Protect the natural vitamins and nutrional supplements from the FDA and

drug companies.

4.Inform everyone you can. It's the only way to beat the industry at this

game.

..

Re: Thalidomide

>

> In a message dated 11/9/04 8:03:48 AM Mountain Standard Time,

> SSRI medications writes:

>

> > I don't know if any of the

> > folks on this list are old enough to remember Thalidomide. Quite a few

> > pregnant women in Europe used that drug -- I forget what it was

> or --

> > and their children were born with grotesque physical defects

>

> Unfortunately, Gertie, I can vaguely remember this debacle. The drug was

> used as a morning-sickness drug. It's now made a comeback and is used to

> treat

> certain cancers.

>

> " Blind Reason "

> a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

> Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

> Unsafe At Any Dose

>

November 10, 2004

In a message dated 11/10/04 3:33:14 PM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> Hmmm...from morning-sickness to cancer. Interesting

Actually, I think Brady ( Brady's wife) is taking Thalidomide for

her cancer. Can't remember what kind she has. That was the first I'd heard

that it was being used for that. Yes, it IS quite a leap.

" Blind Reason "

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

November 10, 2004

In a message dated 11/10/04 3:33:14 PM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> Hmmm...from morning-sickness to cancer. Interesting

Actually, I think Brady ( Brady's wife) is taking Thalidomide for

her cancer. Can't remember what kind she has. That was the first I'd heard

that it was being used for that. Yes, it IS quite a leap.

" Blind Reason "

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

May 26, 2005

Jan, I can't help you on the thalidomide, but I wanted to welcome

you to the list. I hope someone chimes in to help you.

(n, 16,systemic)

On May 25, 2005, at 8:51 PM, jatwilly wrote:

> Hi everyone. My name is Jan and I am seeking information about

> Thalidomide. My son is 6 and has had systemic JRA for 4 years. It

> has progressed quite severely and we have been through most all of the

> drugs available and are almost ready to start Thalidomide, with hopes

> to get off or decrease the steroids and control the inflammation.

>

> I have read some emails from this list regarding JRA kids using

> Thalidomide. I am interested in hearing from anyone about the side

> effects their JRA kids experience while on Thalidomide. Specifically,

> I am wondering about any numbness or peripheral neuropathy symptoms.

>

> I greatly appreciate any feedback...finding mother to mother sharing

> of information often so helpful! Thanks, Jan

>

May 26, 2005

Hi Jan-

Nice to meet you! Sounds like we have parallel

stories... my daughter is 7 with systemic JRA. July

15 will make 4 years since diagnosis... and like you,

we've been through most of the meds.

We are just starting Thalidomide. I actually just

completed the rather taxing process of getting the

prescription filled. Due to the history of the

medicine, there is a rather strict registration

process guarding it's use. Both the patient and the

prescribing doc must register with Celgene. Then,

when the doc writes the script, he/she must call and

get an auth # from Celgene. Once the # is give, the

scipt is good for seven days. When I took it to the

pharmacy, they also had to call Celgene for another

auth. #. Normally, that would have been it.... but we

discovered that my insurance considers that a

specialty medication and it must come, therefore,

through mail order. After much wrangling on the phone

this afternoon, I finally was approved for an override

and I'm going to pick up the medicine tomorrow and

we'll start on Saturday.

So unfortunately, I don't have any actual experience

with it yet. But back in November, I think, we had

some posts regarding this. The peripheral neuropathy

has always been a big concern of mine. Dr Lehman, who

wrote the book " It's Not Growing Pains: " seems to have

the longest history with this drug. He has been a

part of many studies. I originally had concernes that

he seemed to be a part of all of them, and therefore I

questioned the bias of the studies... but, he pointed

out several other recent studies in the U.S. and

abroad. In all of them, they found that in the few

instances of peripheral neuropathy, they were able to

reverse by lowering or discontinuing the medication.

I'm under the impression now, after the reading, that

there hasn't been a case of permanent nerve sensation

loss associated with the thalomid for So JRA. Other

than the peripheral neuropathy, there were no

significant side effects... and from the last study (I

seem to think it was from an October Journal....I know

Georgina posted it...) no child dropped the drug

because of side effects.

I can so relate to your fears... we were waiting

breathlessly for the MRA trials to start this summer.

But now that it will be 2006 before they start, we

can't wait and have to try something else. Like you,

we don't seem to have extensive options left. I can

only pray that this does work.... I would much rather

kick myself later for having doubted than be back in

this position, trying to find the next step.

I'll keep you posted how it goes... and please do the

same - no matter what your next step is.

Best hopes-

Colleen

--- jatwilly <jatwilly@...> wrote:

> Hi everyone. My name is Jan and I am seeking

> information about

> Thalidomide. My son is 6 and has had systemic JRA

> for 4 years. It

> has progressed quite severely and we have been

> through most all of the

> drugs available and are almost ready to start

> Thalidomide, with hopes

> to get off or decrease the steroids and control the

> inflammation.

>

> I have read some emails from this list regarding JRA

> kids using

> Thalidomide. I am interested in hearing from anyone

> about the side

> effects their JRA kids experience while on

> Thalidomide. Specifically,

> I am wondering about any numbness or peripheral

> neuropathy symptoms.

>

> I greatly appreciate any feedback...finding mother

> to mother sharing

> of information often so helpful! Thanks, Jan

>

__________________________________________________

May 27, 2005

Dear Colleen,

Thanks for responding! We are in similar places and it will be helpful to

provide information back and forth. Sounds like the peripheral neuropathy side

effect, at least permanent ones, is not a problem. Good luck with the

start-off; we are weeks behind you in starting the Thalidomide. Are you

amenable to corresponding by email directly, or should I go through the list? I

will keep you posted. Jan

Re: Thalidomide

Hi Jan-

Nice to meet you! Sounds like we have parallel

stories... my daughter is 7 with systemic JRA. July

15 will make 4 years since diagnosis... and like you,

we've been through most of the meds.

We are just starting Thalidomide. I actually just

completed the rather taxing process of getting the

prescription filled. Due to the history of the

medicine, there is a rather strict registration

process guarding it's use. Both the patient and the

prescribing doc must register with Celgene. Then,

when the doc writes the script, he/she must call and

get an auth # from Celgene. Once the # is give, the

scipt is good for seven days. When I took it to the

pharmacy, they also had to call Celgene for another

auth. #. Normally, that would have been it.... but we

discovered that my insurance considers that a

specialty medication and it must come, therefore,

through mail order. After much wrangling on the phone

this afternoon, I finally was approved for an override

and I'm going to pick up the medicine tomorrow and

we'll start on Saturday.

So unfortunately, I don't have any actual experience

with it yet. But back in November, I think, we had

some posts regarding this. The peripheral neuropathy

has always been a big concern of mine. Dr Lehman, who

wrote the book " It's Not Growing Pains: " seems to have

the longest history with this drug. He has been a

part of many studies. I originally had concernes that

he seemed to be a part of all of them, and therefore I

questioned the bias of the studies... but, he pointed

out several other recent studies in the U.S. and

abroad. In all of them, they found that in the few

instances of peripheral neuropathy, they were able to

reverse by lowering or discontinuing the medication.

I'm under the impression now, after the reading, that

there hasn't been a case of permanent nerve sensation

loss associated with the thalomid for So JRA. Other

than the peripheral neuropathy, there were no

significant side effects... and from the last study (I

seem to think it was from an October Journal....I know

Georgina posted it...) no child dropped the drug

because of side effects.

I can so relate to your fears... we were waiting

breathlessly for the MRA trials to start this summer.

But now that it will be 2006 before they start, we

can't wait and have to try something else. Like you,

we don't seem to have extensive options left. I can

only pray that this does work.... I would much rather

kick myself later for having doubted than be back in

this position, trying to find the next step.

I'll keep you posted how it goes... and please do the

same - no matter what your next step is.

Best hopes-

Colleen

--- jatwilly <jatwilly@...> wrote:

> Hi everyone. My name is Jan and I am seeking

> information about

> Thalidomide. My son is 6 and has had systemic JRA

> for 4 years. It

> has progressed quite severely and we have been

> through most all of the

> drugs available and are almost ready to start

> Thalidomide, with hopes

> to get off or decrease the steroids and control the

> inflammation.

>

> I have read some emails from this list regarding JRA

> kids using

> Thalidomide. I am interested in hearing from anyone

> about the side

> effects their JRA kids experience while on

> Thalidomide. Specifically,

> I am wondering about any numbness or peripheral

> neuropathy symptoms.

>

> I greatly appreciate any feedback...finding mother

> to mother sharing

> of information often so helpful! Thanks, Jan

>

__________________________________________________

May 28, 2005

Hi Jan-

Feel free to e-mail me directly anyime... either at

this address, or at my other address

cryan2 " at " csulb.edu.

I see by your repsonse to that our kids have been

on many of the same medications. We also tried

cyclosporine and cytoxan... without great results.

Recently, we have some limited success with IVIG

infusions. It's not one of the firts line defenses,

and it tends to lose it's effect over time. But we

did infusions once a month from December thorugh May

and we had great results through about APril. After

that, it wasn't worth it anymore for us. But for

those few months, inflammation was way down and blood

tests were much improved..... So it may be worth some

consideration, if you don't want to try the

thalidomide.

I'll defintely keep you posted on how it goes... I see

from that we may have several weeks before any

improvement.

I see you are in Oregon! My in-laws live in a rural

area near Medford and we visit them every summer. We

had hoped to move there sometime soon, But I think the

only pediatric rheumies are in Portland? And that

seems like quite a drive....

Anyway - thanks for connecting and I hope you son

improves soon- I'll definitely be in touch.

Colleen

--- jatwill@... wrote:

> Dear Colleen,

>

> Thanks for responding! We are in similar places and

> it will be helpful to provide information back and

> forth. Sounds like the peripheral neuropathy side

> effect, at least permanent ones, is not a problem.

> Good luck with the start-off; we are weeks behind

> you in starting the Thalidomide. Are you amenable

> to corresponding by email directly, or should I go

> through the list? I will keep you posted. Jan

>

> Re: Thalidomide

>

> Hi Jan-

>

> Nice to meet you! Sounds like we have parallel

> stories... my daughter is 7 with systemic JRA. July

> 15 will make 4 years since diagnosis... and like

> you,

> we've been through most of the meds.

>

> We are just starting Thalidomide. I actually just

> completed the rather taxing process of getting the

> prescription filled. Due to the history of the

> medicine, there is a rather strict registration

> process guarding it's use. Both the patient and the

> prescribing doc must register with Celgene. Then,

> when the doc writes the script, he/she must call and

> get an auth # from Celgene. Once the # is give, the

> scipt is good for seven days. When I took it to the

> pharmacy, they also had to call Celgene for another

> auth. #. Normally, that would have been it.... but

> we

> discovered that my insurance considers that a

> specialty medication and it must come, therefore,

> through mail order. After much wrangling on the

> phone

> this afternoon, I finally was approved for an

> override

> and I'm going to pick up the medicine tomorrow and

> we'll start on Saturday.

>

> So unfortunately, I don't have any actual experience

> with it yet. But back in November, I think, we had

> some posts regarding this. The peripheral

> neuropathy

> has always been a big concern of mine. Dr Lehman,

> who

> wrote the book " It's Not Growing Pains: " seems to

> have

> the longest history with this drug. He has been a

> part of many studies. I originally had concernes

> that

> he seemed to be a part of all of them, and therefore

> I

> questioned the bias of the studies... but, he

> pointed

> out several other recent studies in the U.S. and

> abroad. In all of them, they found that in the few

> instances of peripheral neuropathy, they were able

> to

> reverse by lowering or discontinuing the medication.

>

> I'm under the impression now, after the reading,

> that

> there hasn't been a case of permanent nerve

> sensation

> loss associated with the thalomid for So JRA. Other

> than the peripheral neuropathy, there were no

> significant side effects... and from the last study

> (I

> seem to think it was from an October Journal....I

> know

> Georgina posted it...) no child dropped the drug

> because of side effects.

>

> I can so relate to your fears... we were waiting

> breathlessly for the MRA trials to start this

> summer.

> But now that it will be 2006 before they start, we

> can't wait and have to try something else. Like

> you,

> we don't seem to have extensive options left. I can

> only pray that this does work.... I would much

> rather

> kick myself later for having doubted than be back in

> this position, trying to find the next step.

>

> I'll keep you posted how it goes... and please do

> the

> same - no matter what your next step is.

>

> Best hopes-

> Colleen

> --- jatwilly <jatwilly@...> wrote:

> > Hi everyone. My name is Jan and I am seeking

> > information about

> > Thalidomide. My son is 6 and has had systemic JRA

> > for 4 years. It

> > has progressed quite severely and we have been

> > through most all of the

> > drugs available and are almost ready to start

> > Thalidomide, with hopes

> > to get off or decrease the steroids and control

> the

> > inflammation.

> >

> > I have read some emails from this list regarding

> JRA

> > kids using

> > Thalidomide. I am interested in hearing from

> anyone

> > about the side

> > effects their JRA kids experience while on

> > Thalidomide. Specifically,

> > I am wondering about any numbness or peripheral

> > neuropathy symptoms.

> >

> > I greatly appreciate any feedback...finding mother

> > to mother sharing

> > of information often so helpful! Thanks, Jan

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

May 31, 2005

Hi,

My daughter Mackenzie, 7, systemic, has been taking Thalidomide for

almost 1 year now and has not had any of the peripheral neuropathy

side effects from it. As far as the effectiveness of the drug

goes.. thats kind of a coin toss for me. We started it after a

major systemic flare and she was on tons of steroids. We have been

trying to slowly come down on the steroids for the past year and all

was going well till last week when BAM, there it goes again. She

had major setback again. She was hospitalized last Wednesday and we

got to come home Sunday. We only got down to 30 mg/wk of Decadron

which is not really a low dose. We are now going to up the

Thalidomide to 150 mg/day and the Decadron back up to 50 mg/wk, she

is also on methotrexate and cyclosporin. Maybe the higher dose will

start helping. I hope this is helpful to you and I hope all goes

well when you start taking the thalidomide. And yes, the procedure

for getting the drug is a little crazy, I understand why, but still

crazy. As a matter of fact, the hospital had us giving Mackenzie

hers from home because it was going to be close to impossible for

them to get it through the hospital pharmacy!

Take care,

Sue and Mackenzie

> > > Hi everyone. My name is Jan and I am seeking

> > > information about

> > > Thalidomide. My son is 6 and has had systemic JRA

> > > for 4 years. It

> > > has progressed quite severely and we have been

> > > through most all of the

> > > drugs available and are almost ready to start

> > > Thalidomide, with hopes

> > > to get off or decrease the steroids and control

> > the

> > > inflammation.

> > >

> > > I have read some emails from this list regarding

> > JRA

> > > kids using

> > > Thalidomide. I am interested in hearing from

> > anyone

> > > about the side

> > > effects their JRA kids experience while on

> > > Thalidomide. Specifically,

> > > I am wondering about any numbness or peripheral

> > > neuropathy symptoms.

> > >

> > > I greatly appreciate any feedback...finding mother

> > > to mother sharing

> > > of information often so helpful! Thanks, Jan

> > >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

June 1, 2005

Dear Sue, thank you for responding with news about your daughter Mackenzie. I

am really sorry she had another bad setback and had to go to the hospital. I

hope she starts doing better and that with the Thalidomide, she can get down or

off the steroids, (like my son...). Best of luck, Jan