Re: Anyone have any experience with shockwave lithotripsy?

[Guest guest]

i passed one stone the size of an egg

and lots the size of half dollars

----- Original Message -----

From: <angelfishnl@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 1:18 PM

Subject: Anyone have any experience with shockwave lithotripsy?

> I told my surgeon that really I did not want the gallbladder removed

> (I have a stone with a 1.8cm diameter) so he suggested to do

> shockwave lithotripsy. Apparently I have to lie in a bath of water

> and be bombarded by radio waves which (hopefully) will break up the

> stone. This is done under anaesthetic. Afterwards, I would have to

> take medicine for about one year to disolve the remaining pieces of

> gallstone still left in the gallbladder.

>

> I thought of flushing but my doctor (Chinese doc) does not want me to

> do this if the stone is over 1 cm in diameter. She has meds I can

> take with smaller stones to flush it out, she says, so I'm thinking

> this would be a good thing to do once the stone is shattered by the

> treatment.

>

> I'm thinking this sounds pretty good so I'm wondering if there is a

> catch?

>

> Any info or suggestions are welcome.

> anja

>

>

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[Guest guest]

>I told my surgeon that really I did not want the gallbladder removed

>(I have a stone with a 1.8cm diameter) so he suggested to do

>shockwave lithotripsy. Apparently I have to lie in a bath of water

>and be bombarded by radio waves which (hopefully) will break up the

>stone.

I think they are actually sound waves.

This is done in Connecticut. Are there other places also?

>This is done under anaesthetic. Afterwards, I would have to

>take medicine for about one year to disolve the remaining pieces of

>gallstone still left in the gallbladder.

>

>I thought of flushing but my doctor (Chinese doc) does not want me to

>do this if the stone is over 1 cm in diameter. She has meds I can

>take with smaller stones to flush it out, she says, so I'm thinking

>this would be a good thing to do once the stone is shattered by the

>treatment.

Does she refer to Actigall, or something else? Perhaps Rowachol?

Please let us know how it goes, and also whether your health insurance

covers the procedure.

[Guest guest]

##### level-1 quote by Wally Gordon (on) 14.01.03 (at) 23:04 +0200

> >I told my surgeon that really I did not want the gallbladder removed

>>(I have a stone with a 1.8cm diameter) so he suggested to do

> >shockwave lithotripsy. Apparently I have to lie in a bath of water

>>and be bombarded by radio waves which (hopefully) will break up the

>>stone.

>

>I think they are actually sound waves.

Yes, focused, high-power ultrasonic waves. I believe this is used for

kidney stones as well.

>

>This is done in Connecticut. Are there other places also?

>

It should be quite common -- I am surprised that nobody has mentioned

this before here. I have a brother-in-law with a 12 mm stone and they

wanted to do this lithotripsy in the hospital in Borneo, where he

lives (the city of Balikpapan). If Borneo has it, I'd think it *must*

be available nearly anywhere.

((-- Do GP's get a kickback by recommending GB surgery from the

surgeon? Like, why do so many people say their doctor recommends GB

removal (cholecystectomy)? --))

However, it is interesting that lithotripsy is not mentioned under GB

problems (biliary calculi) in my 1987 edition of The Merck Manual,

whereas lithotripsy is indeed mentioned for renal calculi (kidney

stones). Under GB it says that " diet and drugs are not helpful

substitutes for cholecystectomy. " That's the party-line doctrine in

black & white, I guess. Can there have been any progress in 16 years?

Unlikely, since some stone-removal remedies go back at least a

century.

Ray

--

[Guest guest]

Is this method only helpful if the stones are

hard stones...calcium? It seems like it wouldn't be

much good if stones are the soft cholesterol-type

stones that most are. Just curious.

L. Meydrech, CN

http://nutritionist.tripod.com/gallbladder.html ~ My Flushes

http://nutritionist.tripod.com ~ Journey to Health & Auctions

" A cheerful heart is good medicine " Prov. 17:22a

[Guest guest]

--- In gallstones , Wally Gordon <wally.gordon@b...>

wrote:

>

> >I told my surgeon that really I did not want the gallbladder

removed

> >(I have a stone with a 1.8cm diameter) so he suggested to do

> >shockwave lithotripsy. Apparently I have to lie in a bath of water

> >and be bombarded by radio waves which (hopefully) will break up the

> >stone.

>

> I think they are actually sound waves.

>

> This is done in Connecticut. Are there other places also?

I live in the Netherlands and believe me this was not the first

option given to me. They wanted to remove the gall bladder, I had to

ask around a lot before I found a surgeon who offered this

alternative. Even he pushed the operation and when I said I'd rather

have the shockwave lithotripsy, he said ok but it might cause

problems: it could be painful after the procedure, the stone might

not break down properly, the pieces might stay in my gall bladder and

might grow again, plus I would have to take medicine (they did not

say which medicine) for one to two years to disolve the remnants of

the stone. No mention of what might go wrong during or after a

gallbladder operation!

I said: not a problem for me, that way the stone is fully gone and

the gallbladder still in my body!

>

> >This is done under anaesthetic. Afterwards, I would have to

> >take medicine for about one year to disolve the remaining pieces of

> >gallstone still left in the gallbladder.

> >

> >I thought of flushing but my doctor (Chinese doc) does not want me

to

> >do this if the stone is over 1 cm in diameter. She has meds I can

> >take with smaller stones to flush it out, she says, so I'm thinking

> >this would be a good thing to do once the stone is shattered by the

> >treatment.

>

> Does she refer to Actigall, or something else? Perhaps Rowachol?

My Chinese doctor treats me with herbal mixes, they taste revolting

but do help. When the gallstone pain was pretty bad she did

acupuncture and mixed up the herbs for me, that helped a lot! She

told me if I have gravel in my gall bladder or a stone smaller than 1

cm diameter, she could give me a herbal mix that would have the same

effect as a gallbladder flush. I might try that or I might do

the " traditional " gall bladder flush first, that sounds a bit less

painful (she warns her flush might be painful but that the pain never

lasts more than one day)

>

> Please let us know how it goes, and also whether your health

insurance > covers the procedure.

My health insurance does cover the procedure in this country. The

procedure will be carried out between now and two months, that is how

long the waiting list is. I will keep you posted. I'm pretty nervous

because I have absolutely no idea what awaits me. I'm not getting

much info here about it, mainly because it's so rarely done.

>

>

[Guest guest]

My stone is 2.3 cm. I have done 4 flushes and am still alive. Diet changes,

flushes and supplements, all of which I began about 7 months ago have helped

immensely. I have not passed " the big one " yet, but believe I will. Right now I

am taking Chanca Piedra and hope it is shrinking the stone. I may be wrong (and

I hope I don't find out that I am, by dying suddenly from some acute

liver/gallbladder problem, lol), but I would have to disagree with Dr. Cabot and

others who claim you should not flush if you have a large stone. I believe

flushing has only helped me, not made matters worse.

Blessings,

Colleen K.

----- Original Message -----

From: Anja <angelfishnl@...>

gallstones

Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:11 PM

Subject: Re: Anyone have any experience with shockwave

lithotripsy?

>

> >I told my surgeon that really I did not want the gallbladder

removed

> >(I have a stone with a 1.8cm diameter) so he suggested to do

> >shockwave lithotripsy. Apparently I have to lie in a bath of water

> >and be bombarded by radio waves which (hopefully) will break up the

> >stone.

>

> I think they are actually sound waves.

>

> This is done in Connecticut. Are there other places also?

I live in the Netherlands and believe me this was not the first

option given to me. They wanted to remove the gall bladder, I had to

ask around a lot before I found a surgeon who offered this

alternative. Even he pushed the operation and when I said I'd rather

have the shockwave lithotripsy, he said ok but it might cause

problems: it could be painful after the procedure, the stone might

not break down properly, the pieces might stay in my gall bladder and

might grow again, plus I would have to take medicine (they did not

say which medicine) for one to two years to disolve the remnants of

the stone. No mention of what might go wrong during or after a

gallbladder operation!

I said: not a problem for me, that way the stone is fully gone and

the gallbladder still in my body!

>

> >This is done under anaesthetic. Afterwards, I would have to

> >take medicine for about one year to disolve the remaining pieces of

> >gallstone still left in the gallbladder.

> >

> >I thought of flushing but my doctor (Chinese doc) does not want me

to

> >do this if the stone is over 1 cm in diameter. She has meds I can

> >take with smaller stones to flush it out, she says, so I'm thinking

> >this would be a good thing to do once the stone is shattered by the

> >treatment.

>

> Does she refer to Actigall, or something else? Perhaps Rowachol?

My Chinese doctor treats me with herbal mixes, they taste revolting

but do help. When the gallstone pain was pretty bad she did

acupuncture and mixed up the herbs for me, that helped a lot! She

told me if I have gravel in my gall bladder or a stone smaller than 1

cm diameter, she could give me a herbal mix that would have the same

effect as a gallbladder flush. I might try that or I might do

the " traditional " gall bladder flush first, that sounds a bit less

painful (she warns her flush might be painful but that the pain never

lasts more than one day)

>

> Please let us know how it goes, and also whether your health

insurance > covers the procedure.

My health insurance does cover the procedure in this country. The

procedure will be carried out between now and two months, that is how

long the waiting list is. I will keep you posted. I'm pretty nervous

because I have absolutely no idea what awaits me. I'm not getting

much info here about it, mainly because it's so rarely done.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Right now I am taking Chanca Piedra and hope it is shrinking the stone. I

>may be wrong (and I hope I don't find out that I am, by dying suddenly

>from some acute liver/gallbladder problem, lol), but I would have to

>disagree with Dr. Cabot and others who claim you should not flush if you

>have a large stone. I believe flushing has only helped me, not made

>matters worse.

Please keep us informed on the effects of the Chanca Piedra: both the side

effects and the actual extent to which it shrinks your stone.

How long have you been taking it, and how long do you intend to continue?

Good luck!