Where to go from here?

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Bee,

>

> I'm totally new to this group- I've previously been exploring the 'whole

approach' method of caproyl/psyllium/bentonite/ candida diet method, but I think

it might be destroying my insides. I've been having diarrhea and it seems like

almost everything just goes right through me, and I still have a reaction to

anything not on the candida food list.

<snip>

Hi there. Welcome to our group. What is your name please?

The first thing to know is that candida is not cured by " killing it off " or

" trying to get rid of it. " It just doesn't work that way.

The only way to cure candida is to build up your immune system, mainly with

" proper nutrients " (my diet plus all supplements) so the body becomes able to

heal itself naturally the way Nature intended.

We know my program is the most successful because of the many members' Success

Stories, and many had tried other programs/diets, etc. without success - see

these for encouragement: http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/success/index.php

So it is important for you to understand what you need to do and why, and why

other treatments and methods do not work, so please read these 2 articles:

1) How to Successfully Overcome Candida

2) Curing Candida, How to Get Started

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/candida/index.php

After reading please get back to us with any questions.

The best in health, Bee

[Guest guest]

A very short answer is to run a mile from this uncaring doctor

and find another one - I doubt you would find one quite as bad as this one, but

this is YOUR health, and this doctor obviously doesn't care one jot about

it. Can you let us know what the previous 'out of range' readings

actually were, with the reference range. How low was your Free T3.

You need to write to this doctor and give him one last chance.

List all of your symptoms and signs (check these against our symptoms and signs

under 'Hypothyroidism' in our web site www.tpa-uk.org.uk . List your basal

temperature for 4 or 5 mornings before you get out of bed. Normal temperature

is 98.6. if yours is 97.8 or it could be much less, this is an indication your

metabolism isn't functioning as it should, and could be because you are

hypothyroid. List any members of your family with an autoimmune of thyroid

disease.

List the blood tests you would like your GP to do and explain to

him that you are aware that if any of them are low in the reference range, your

thyroid hormone will be unable to be utilised by the cells and if any are low,

you need them supplementing. These are ferritin (store iron), vitamin B12,

vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, zinc and copper. Let him know you can cite

references to the medical evidence to show this if he would like to see them.

Ask again for another test to check your Free T3 as it was out of range last

time, and let him know again that it is the T3 (triiodothyronine) that is the

ACTIVE hormone that needs to get into every cell in the body and

brain to keep them functioning as they should. If your Free T3 is low, you need

this supplementing. Tell him that Thyroid Function Tests ONLY test the secretion

of the thyroid hormone by the thyroid gland, they do not test to see whether

these thyroid hormones being secreted normally are actually getting into the

cells. Many of us are unable to convert the inactive thyroid hormone thyroxine

(T4) into the active T3. Again, let him know you are happy to supply him with

many references to the medical evidence and research to show this.

As he is only a GP and NOT a thyroid specialist, next, ask to be

referred to a thyroid specialist, preferably of your choice, as the majority of

endocrinologists specialise in diabetes and not thyroid. You do NOT have to be

referred to a private specialist supplied by him. Neither does he have

any right WHATSOEVER to tell his patients that the NHS will not treat

you. Is this man on the make or something???

Next, ask for your letter of request to be placed into your

medical records and at the bottom of the letter, write CC to Head of Practice.

See if that produces results - if not, I would start a

complaints procedure against him.

Luv - Sheila

I have previously had out of range readings on

T4, TSH, Serum Free T3* and TPO

Current tests as follows

T4 12. something (range 12-23)

TSH 2.65 (range 0.35-5.5)

TPO (to quote my practice): 'less than 60, I can't tell you the reference range

but it's normal'. Online research seems to suggest that <50 is normal, not

less than 60. So my first question is could a person without a thyroid problem

have this reading?

* My GP's refused to retest the out of range Free T3. I had a big argument with

them about it, saying that as it was abnormal last time I should be entitled to

a retest, but apparently not. Apparently 'they shouldn't have done it in the

first place'. Hilariously they wouldn't even admit that it had ever been tested

until after a couple of months chasing the results I demanded a print out of

all of my results. And quelle surprise it was out of range.

As they drew the blood the Dr also told me to come back to arrange a private

referral - Note this was before he knew the results. He basically told me that

it didn't matter what the results said, the NHS would not be treating me.

Unfortunately the needle had already been in my arm when he said this or I

wouldn't have bothered.

I know that the people are often advised to see Dr Peatfield. Unfortunately at

the moment this is not financially viable for me. I did buy his book though. So

question two is; can the NHS really refuse to treat me when I have had a series

of abnormal results? The current set not as bad as usual, but I still feel

pants. I am asking because I could write a letter to the practice manager etc

but I have so little energy that if it is likely to prove fruitless I don't

want to expend any of it on pointless pursuit.

Sorry to moan and thanks if you have got this far.

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2597 - Release Date: 01/04/10

19:35:00

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Sheila. I really appreciate your reply because I think that you guys are

the only people I have spoken to in the last eight months who have the slightest

clue of what they are talking about.

My results are weird to say the least and as follows:

March 09 June 09 Sep 09 Dec 09

Serum free T4 14.0 25.0 17.0 12.?

TPO 74 'Less than 60'

TSH 6.68 0.06 0.06 2.56

Free T3 6.9

Ranges:

T4 (12-23)

TSH (0.35 - 5.5)

TPO ????

T3 (3.5-6.5)

After March I was put on 50 of Levothyroxine which sent me Hyper and so was told

to stop taking it immediately.

In the March a whole load of other tests (iron etc were also done which I was

also informed were in the 'normal' range.

Do these results look like they indicate a problem? I particularly wonder if it

is possible to have antibodies, but not necessarily have a problem. I realise

and appreciate that people have much, much worse results. Symptom wise my main

problems are ridiculous tiredness, dry skin on my legs (which I never used to

have) and on some days awful aches in my limbs. I'm only 37, this cannot be

normal. It just can't.

Thanks again.

>

> A very short answer is to run a mile from this uncaring doctor and find

> another one - I doubt you would find one quite as bad as this one, but this

> is YOUR health, and this doctor obviously doesn't care one jot about it.

> Can you let us know what the previous 'out of range' readings actually were,

> with the reference range. How low was your Free T3.

>

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

'I could write a letter to the practice manager etc but I have so little energy

that if it is likely to prove fruitless I don't want to expend any of it on

pointless pursuit.'

I had to write when I saw this; it is so familiar to me. I have always stood up

for myself by letter writing and making formal complaints when necessary but

when I went hypo I simply wasn't able to do it anymore. It was a sure sign of my

illness and I wonder if this is the same for you.

'No energy for confrontation' has been noted as a symptom of adrenal fatigue as

well. Since getting ill I have certainly shyed away from incidents when I would

normally have fought my corner, just because I couldn't afford to expend the

precious energy.

I am 37 too.

CJ

[Guest guest]

Hi missfoofighter ,

***My results are weird to say the least and as follows: March 09 June 09 Sep 09 Dec 09Serum free T4 14.0 25.0 17.0 12.?TPO 74 'Less than 60'TSH 6.68 0.06 0.06 2.56Free T3 6.9Ranges:T4 (12-23)TSH (0.35 - 5.5)TPO ????T3 (3.5-6.5)

After March I was put on 50 of Levothyroxine which sent me Hyper and so was toldto stop taking it immediately.

Have I misunderstood this, or are you saying that your GP put you on 50 mcg Levo after the March results and because of the next blood test in June he told you to stop the Levo and go without because you were now supposedly hyper ??? ..... did you actually present any of the hyperthyroid symptoms ?

If you are currently without any thyroid medication, then I can only echo Sheila's words .... run a mile from this GP. This man hasn't got a clue about thyroid disease. He saw a suppressed TSH and panicked.... he not totally to blame, that is what he had been taught in Med School ....

Always assuming that you are currently without any thyroid medication, your results above are not weird at all, but logical.

But let's start at the beginning. Your March result shows that you suffer from Hashimoto's disease (or autoimmune thyroiditis). Your TSH is above the ref range, your FT4 is low in range, and you have positive TPO thyroid autoantibodies present. The ref range for TPO varies apparently in the UK.... some labs use figures of >50, other labs use >100. It does not actually matter whether you have 74, 60, or over 100.... what matters is that they are present, and in double figures. If you had only a handful of TPOs, say, less than 10, then it could be argued that perhaps they were irrelevant, but 74, although not very high, IMHO is not a figure to sweep under the carpet, whichever ref range is used. As I understand the process, the amount of AAs (autoantibodies) goes up and down in line with them launching an attack and destroying your thyroid gland - when they are attacking, the count will be high, when in remission, the count will be low. When your thyroid gland is no more, they will have burned themselves out and vanish.... but this can take many years.

Having established that you are indeed hypothyroid, you were (rightly) put on medication, and 3 months later your thyroid results were a little bit over the top .... but (unless you were having hyPERthyroid symptoms at that time) by no means representative of HyPERthyroidism for a patient on thyroid meds. To be fair , when I shuffled the figures above along to make them clearer, I wasn't sure where to put the one and only FT3 result - I assume it was a June figure ?? - Anyway, what your GP should have done is to ask you how you were feeling, before (and instead of) pronouncing you hyper and stopping your medication. - The subsequent results in Sept and Dec just show the inevitable.... without medication your FT4 went down and your TSH went eventually back up again ... what else did your GP expect to happen????? You are hypothyroid. Would he tell a diabetic to stop medication and pronounce him cured if the lab figures were overshooting a little on a routine test ??

In the March a whole load of other tests (iron etc were also done which I wasalso informed were in the 'normal' range.

Makes me wonder.... If your GP can't correctly read thyroid results, how expert is he in interpreting other test results?Do these results look like they indicate a problem?

There is a fundamental problem - you are hypothyroid, and you need treatment. From what you are saying, it is unlikely that you will get that from your current GP though, and if in your shoes, I would ask for a referral to an endo of YOUR choice, or change GPs.

*** I particularly wonder if it is possible to have antibodies, but not necessarily have a problem.

Yes, many people have autoantibodies without being ill. Many people don't even know they have them. But when a patient shows signs and symptoms of being hypothyroid AND has positive AAs, then IMHO early treatment is the best insurance policy for preventing further decline.

***I realise and appreciate that people have much, much worse results.

Symptom wise my main problems are ridiculous tiredness, dry skin on my legs

(which I never used to have) and on some days awful aches in my limbs. I'm only 37,

this cannot be normal. It just can't.

It isn't 'normal' - not at your age nor at any age. CJ is right, having 'no energy for confrontation' is indeed a classic hypothyroid symptom.... but sometimes we have no choice. Unless you take the initiative and either ask for a referral or find another GP, things won't get better.

Fingers X and best of luck,

[Guest guest]

DO IT!! It is really quite freeing when you write a complaint, even if it

doesn't change things it makes you feel better.

When I found an endo to prescribe Armour I wrote to all the olther ones I'd seen

and told them what a disgrace to medicine I thought they were.

I never expected an answer, their secretary's probably threw them in the bin and

they never got to the endo in question, I didn't care, I'd really let rip on how

badly I had been treated and I named names in every letter! (Well I didn't want

any one particular endo thinking I was on a witch hunt, pardon the

expression!!).

I felt great from the minute I posted them, cost me 6 x 1st class stamps but

what the hell!! I felt wonderful!!

Glynis

> 'I could write a letter to the practice manager etc but I have so little

energy that if it is likely to prove fruitless I don't want to expend any of it

on pointless pursuit.'

>

> CJ

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I agree with Glynis.

I have been complaining about an endo I saw in 2008. He said I did not have

thyroid problems even though I gave him the test results from Genova which

showed my T3 was under range. He even ignored the NHS thyroid scan which said I

had Hashi's and was hypothyroid.

I wrote letters to the endo, the complaints dept at the hospital and now I have

just sent a letter to the head of the hospital - and yes it did make me feel

better when I sent them.

If it does nothing else, hopefully my letters will annoy the endo, complaints

dept and head of hospital. I will keep on writing until I get a satisfactory

outcome.

I know how much effort it takes to write a letter of complaint. I wrote my

letters slowly, draft first and then added stuff as I thought about it. I also

had a lot of help and support from Sheila.

We should not let GPs, endos and the NHS get away with treating us like poo -

write letters of complaint again and again.

In the files section there are some letters you can copy and edit for your own

situation.

B

[Guest guest]

First of all thanks to everyone who has replied. I take everything said on

board, I promise.

, the formatting got all mucked up on my post but you interpreted it

correctly! I was put on Levothyroxine after the March results:

T4 14

TSH 6.68

After my T4 result went to 25 in the June I was told to stop Levothyroxine

immediately. I wasn't symptomatic of Hyper, but I was keen to do as I was told

as there is a strong trait of heart disease in my family (dad died at 53, uncles

with bypasses under the age of 50) so I didn't want to risk going against what I

thought was good advice.

The TPO result was actually in September, a couple of months after Levothyroxine

had been stopped. The T3 is from September too.

Thanks for the info on TPO ranges. It is very handy to know. And it confirms

that I am not a hypochondriac. That it is not all in my head and I am talking

myself into being ill. For that information I am eternally grateful.

I also agree with your statement that if my GP can't correctly read thyroid

results, how expert is he in interpreting other test results?

Finally on the subject of seeking a referral to an Endo of my choice, the Endo

at my local hospital has actually refused a referral from my GP already. They

told my GP that she had made me ill by prescribing Levothyroxine in March (when

in their opinion there was nothing wrong with me). So, in a way it is no

surprise she is confused. I will go back one more time and ask for a referral

elsewhere, but how on earth do I begin to know who to ask to see? It is a long

shot but if anyone knows of a sympathetic endo in Bedfordshire then please pass

on the information. Although the L & D Endo is the one who refused to see me, so

perhaps not there!

Thanks again guys.

Leigh

[Guest guest]

Hi Jolly, The presence of antibodies could explain your erratic results, even taking into accound that for a short time you were taking 50mcg T4 .After you stopped it, it would take 25 days for the extra T4 to leave the body. Antibody attacks are not consistent- they come in waves, and after an attack the T4 will be elevated as the destroyed tissue liberated it's thyroid content. so theantibody level may have been lowish at that point and higher at others. > Subject: Re: Where to go from here?> > Thanks, Sheila. I really appreciate your reply because I think that you guys are the only people I have spoken to in the last eight months who have the slightest clue of what they are talking about.> .> > > > > [Edit Abbrev Mod]> > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

[Guest guest]

Hi, You are more likely to have a heart attack through being undertreated than overtreated. This risk seems to be little known. My father died of a heart attack when he was 50 so it is something I am concerned about too. Currently I'm 56 with a TSH of >0.01 and I'm just fine! > > After my T4 result went to 25 in the June I was told to stop Levothyroxine immediately. I wasn't symptomatic of Hyper, but I was keen to do as I was told as there is a strong trait of heart disease in my family (dad died at 53, uncles with bypasses under the age of 50) so I didn't want to risk going against what I thought was good advice.> >> > Thanks again guys.> > Leigh> > > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

My mom (57 years) has stage IV colon cancer (mets to the omentum). All signs of

tumor were removed via surgery in Sept. of last year. She has 3 more cycles of

FOLFOX to go, done at the end of March. So far, she has been handling the chemo

remarkably well, with some peripheral neuropathy being her main side effect. My

primary concern, however, are her blood counts. It's obvious that the chemo is

taking its toll on her immune system. That said,

What is next? She does not want to do anymore chemo. This is it. So she will

continue to do the Budwig Protocol, take a few supplements and try to RELAX.

However, after chemo is over, I think she should detox her organs and perhaps

take some specific immune building supps. Her oncologist said that chemo is

building up in her bone marrow, which I don't understand because he also said

that it is out of her " system " within 3 days.

Does anyone have any recommendations for building up the immune system (I'm

talking a big BOOST here) or for detox after chemo? I've read a bunch of things

online, but it would be great to hear if anything specific has worked for anyone

here. I just want to get her body in the best possible place to launch into

Budwig 100% and ensure that her digestive system is absorbing all the nutrients

it can.

Currently she is taking:

A Probiotic

Beta Glucan #300

Curcumin

Vit. D

Chlorophyll and Papaya Leaf Extract for Platelets

Drinking fresh juices with wheat grass

Milk Thistle

B6

Is chiropractic care a good route? Acupuncture? Vitamin C? I really just want

to know what will actually work and not get caught up in hocus pocus-type

endeavors out of ignorance.

Thanks in advance for your help. I appreciate it so much. I wish you all the

light of love.

Kind Regards,

Kim

[Guest guest]

Kim

I am a stage 3 colon cancer survivor of eleven years. You can read my

testimony at http://www.ahha.org/articles.asp?Id=96 Please pass it along to

your Mother if you think it will encourage her.

It took me 3 months to completely detox from just one month of chemo. I

definitely believe that she needs to be on a good detoxification protocol

and her immune system will need to be healed and supported. It was actually

a chiro that guided me through a natural health protocol. I received

chiropractic every week for a total of 7 months. Yes, I believe it is

important.

Please do not wait to launch into the Budwig Protocol. It will help the body

to heal and can provide some protective effect against the chemo. The

Budwig protocol will also provide for some detoxification and she can

definitely use Budwig while doing a detoxification protocol -- complete

digestive tract, parasite, liver/gallbladder and yeast. The

emotional/stress/spiritual aspect to cancer is huge for most people. It is

also a good idea to get help in this area. Healing needs to take place on

all levels -- body, mind and soul.

Be Well

Dr.L

-----Original Message-----

Hi Everyone,

My mom (57 years) has stage IV colon cancer (mets to the omentum). All signs

of tumor were removed via surgery in Sept. of last year. She has 3 more

cycles of FOLFOX to go, done at the end of March. So far, she has been

handling the chemo remarkably well, with some peripheral neuropathy being

her main side effect. My primary concern, however, are her blood counts.

It's obvious that the chemo is taking its toll on her immune system. That

said,

What is next? She does not want to do anymore chemo. This is it. So she

will continue to do the Budwig Protocol, take a few supplements and try to

RELAX. However, after chemo is over, I think she should detox her organs

and perhaps take some specific immune building supps. Her oncologist said

that chemo is building up in her bone marrow, which I don't understand

because he also said that it is out of her " system " within 3 days.

Does anyone have any recommendations for building up the immune system (I'm

talking a big BOOST here) or for detox after chemo? I've read a bunch of

things online, but it would be great to hear if anything specific has worked

for anyone here. I just want to get her body in the best possible place to

launch into Budwig 100% and ensure that her digestive system is absorbing

all the nutrients it can.

Currently she is taking:

A Probiotic

Beta Glucan #300

Curcumin

Vit. D

Chlorophyll and Papaya Leaf Extract for Platelets

Drinking fresh juices with wheat grass

Milk Thistle

B6

Is chiropractic care a good route? Acupuncture? Vitamin C? I really just

want to know what will actually work and not get caught up in hocus

pocus-type endeavors out of ignorance.

Thanks in advance for your help. I appreciate it so much. I wish you all

the light of love.

Kind Regards,

Kim

[Guest guest]

Hi Kim,

" kallison23 " <kallison23@...> wrote:

> mom (57 years) has stage IV colon cancer...does not want to do anymore chemo

I wouldn't do any more conventional chemo either.

>Budwig...

Great.

>I think she should detox

GRADUALLY, and under medical supervision (since she just had chemo)

>immune building supps.

Yes.

> for building up the immune system

Most powerful immune boosters I know of (besides the things you list below):

AG-Immune (www.bodywise.com/BodyWisdom_english/AGImmune_info.pdf)

or other arabinogalactin (e.g., larch) or AHCC

Samento (cat’s claw) by www.nutramedix.com (1 of the best supplement companies

I know of)

4Life Transfer Factor Plus (www.4life.com)

mushrooms (chaga, reishi/maitake/shiitake/cordyceps/agaricus blazei/coriolus

versicolor)--best brands I know of are

www.jhsnp.com/store/immunebuilder.html

www.newchapter.com/products/lifeshield-immunity

www.HostDefense.com

green tea/EGCG (large amounts)--particularly important to take during chemo

> A Probiotic

> Beta Glucan #300

> Curcumin

> Vit. D

> Chlorophyll and Papaya Leaf Extract for Platelets

> Drinking fresh juices with wheat grass

> Milk Thistle

Great!

> Is chiropractic care a good route? Acupuncture?

somewhat helpful

>Vitamin C?

Yes.

Feel free to email on- or off-list if you have more questions.

Leonard

[Guest guest]

Leonard:

" I think she should detox

GRADUALLY, and under medical supervision (since she just had chemo) "

Good Point. While everyone is different I can tell what my wife was instructed

to do by her alternate cancer doctor who worked at The Cancer Treatment Centers

of America and treated thousands of patients. He told my wife to allow the chemo

to work for one week before detoxing. However he said to immediately to begin

mega doses of probiotics to the tune of 160 billion per day. Three days after

each chemo treatment I could hear the digestive system beginning to work again.

After the one week we did spirulina, chlorella, wheat grass, and the carbon far

infrared sauna among other things. He gave us three plans, one for detoxing

after each chemo treatment. The second plan is for a additional 9 months to one

year of detoxing when chemo was finished, then a life plan. He said it is

thought cancer is very closely related to yeast/ fungus. The chemo kills both

the good and the bad (yeast and fungus) bacteria in the intestine, the yeast

fungus will grow back first and at a much faster rate. The probiotics will

prevent this and keep the gut flora at 85% good bacteria, where it should be for

a healthy immune system. 

He had pictures of the intestine before and after chemo. It looked like a atomic

bomb went off in the intestines after chemo. Everything was killed. The good

bacteria will not return by itself and some rare good bacteria are lost

forever. Colloidal silver will speed up healing, is also a good yeast killer,

and can be used a week after chemo depending on the advice of your alt

doctor. 

Vic 

[Guest guest]

I can't thank you all enough for these thorough replies! I will start to go

through all of the recommendations tomorrow. I hope you don't mind, but I may

have some additional questions when I dig into all of this- So you may be

hearing from me again.

Thanks again for your kindness and time.

All the Best to You,

Kim

>

> Leonard:

>

> " I think she should detox

> GRADUALLY, and under medical supervision (since she just had chemo) "

>

> Good Point. While everyone is different I can tell what my wife was instructed

> to do by her alternate cancer doctor who worked at The Cancer Treatment

Centers

> of America and treated thousands of patients. He told my wife to allow the

chemo

> to work for one week before detoxing. However he said to immediately to begin

> mega doses of probiotics to the tune of 160 billion per day. Three days after

> each chemo treatment I could hear the digestive system beginning to work

again.

> After the one week we did spirulina, chlorella, wheat grass, and the carbon

far

> infrared sauna among other things. He gave us three plans, one for detoxing

> after each chemo treatment. The second plan is for a additional 9 months to

one

> year of detoxing when chemo was finished, then a life plan. He said it is

> thought cancer is very closely related to yeast/ fungus. The chemo kills both

> the good and the bad (yeast and fungus) bacteria in the intestine, the yeast

> fungus will grow back first and at a much faster rate. The probiotics will

> prevent this and keep the gut flora at 85% good bacteria, where it should be

for

> a healthy immune system. 

>

> He had pictures of the intestine before and after chemo. It looked like a

atomic

> bomb went off in the intestines after chemo. Everything was killed. The good

> bacteria will not return by itself and some rare good bacteria are lost

> forever. Colloidal silver will speed up healing, is also a good yeast killer,

> and can be used a week after chemo depending on the advice of your alt

> doctor. 

>

> Vic 

>