Guest guest Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Rarely is a med or a procedure all good or all bad. I don't think one arrives at the most productive conclusions if one gets there through an adversarial or dialectic process. The use of bisphosphonates is an example. I won't comment on their use for osteoporosis as I don't see that many people with the problem. It is a very different problem if one has cancer mets to the bone. There are not many drugs that can stop the pain, but the bisphosphnates can. They often also reverse the cancer -- I have seen it repeatedly. Risedronate can stop toxoplasmosis when few other meds can. There is little evidence on the synergisms or additive affects for better or worse when one combines the bisphosphate analogs with the various chemotherapies, or even the many alternatives. It has been known for years that bisphosphonates prevent mets to the bone from breast, lung, and prostate cancers. Often they are used with multiple myeloma when nothing else seems to work. In thousands of cases I have not seen a single bone break or case of osteonecrosis attributable to bisphosphonates. Perhaps this is because we only use it when it seems sensible, that is, when there are no significant dental problems and because we don't use any of the usual chemotherapies. Whenever I hear a physician say that they never do this or they always do that then I suspect they are very comfortable with a formulary approach to medicine. _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Randall Crossley Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 2:55 AM Subject: [ ] (unknown) I was sent this by an other member Hennieits a warning about bisphosphonates when I had bone cancer my doctor was recommending them but I dont know why �Ray " � Al Sears, MD 11903 Southern Blvd., Ste. 208 Royal Palm Beach, FL 33411 January 25, 2011 � Would you use a drug thatgives you the problem it's supposed to prevent? Well, that's exactly what��'s going on with the new osteoporosis drugs. Fosomax, Boniva, Reclast, Actonel... these medications are supposed to help stop you from getting bone fractures as you get older. But we now have evidence that they cause bone breaks. Researchers studied women taking these medications ' called bisphosphonates who experienced some sort of fracture. Over 65 percent had the same rare fracture in the same area of their thigh bones. And these were the women who had been on the drugs for the longest periods.1 Plus they've also found that if you're on the drugs for a long time and you do get a bone break, you'll heal very slowly. Sometimes it can take two years! It's another example of how modern medicine doesn't learn from its mistakes. They refuse to take a whole-body approach to healing. Instead they opt to treat individual symptoms with drugs designed only for those symptoms. And bone density drugs are a perfect example of this. I'll tell you how they work in a moment, but first I want to tell you a little bit about how your body makes bone… Your bones have cells called osteoclasts. Their job is to remove old bone tissue. This allows the bone to grow strong because other cells called osteoblasts then rebuild the bone. With osteoporosis and other bone diseases, there is an imbalance of� either your osteoblasts aren't making new cells fast enough, or osteoclasts are removing too much tissue. So drug companies came up with a way to stop osteoclasts from removing the old tissue, which also artificially increases your bone density: bisphosphonate drugs. There are two problems with this. 1. By keeping your old bone tissue, you increase bone mass but make bones act older. 2. The drugs do the job by poisoning your osteoclast cells. What happens is that you take the medicine, the osteoclasts absorb it, and it poisons the osteoclast cells by cutting off their blood supply. The cells then either work very slowly or die. Because they don't take away the old tissue, your bones become denser. But they're dense with old tissue. And the osteoblasts can't make new tissue if the old tissue is still there. After a while, the old-bone tissue becomes brittle and fragile, like glass, because it's not as strong as the newer bone that would have formed without the drugs. You end up with technically “dense†but weak bones that can fracture. The other thing that can happen that most people don't know about is osteonecrosis. This is what happens when your bones are too dense with old tissue. Theres not enough space in the inner bone for your bone marrow, which keeps your bones alive. Your bones then start to die. This often happens in the jaw. Look, poisoning your body is hardly ever a good idea. This is why in my practice, I never use these drugs. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 , Your comment on bisphosphonates as relates to cancer is of course your forte. However there are many people, mostly women, who are prescribed bisphosphonates to prevent osteoporosis without any explanation as to their possible negative results. I myself had 3 infusions of reclast prescribed by my doctor to prevent osteoporosis. I was a good patient and did as I was told. I am no longer a good patient and do not do as I am told before researching if what I am told makes sense or not. I would love to hear your take on bisphosphonates in relation to osteoporosis also. I know it is not your area of expertise but your research capabilities trump all of ours. Thanks Nili On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Gammill <vgammill>wrote: > Rarely is a med or a procedure all good or all bad. I don't think one > arrives at the most productive conclusions if one gets there through an > adversarial or dialectic process. The use of bisphosphonates is an example. > I won't comment on their use for osteoporosis as I don't see that many > people with the problem. > > It is a very different problem if one has cancer mets to the bone. There > are not many drugs that can stop the pain, but the bisphosphnates can. They > often also reverse the cancer -- I have seen it repeatedly. Risedronate can > stop toxoplasmosis when few other meds can. There is little evidence on the > synergisms or additive affects for better or worse when one combines the > bisphosphate analogs with the various chemotherapies, or even the many > alternatives. It has been known for years that bisphosphonates prevent mets > to the bone from breast, lung, and prostate cancers. Often they are used > with multiple myeloma when nothing else seems to work. > > In thousands of cases I have not seen a single bone break or case of > osteonecrosis attributable to bisphosphonates. Perhaps this is because we > only use it when it seems sensible, that is, when there are no significant > dental problems and because we don't use any of the usual chemotherapies. > > Whenever I hear a physician say that they never do this or they always do > that then I suspect they are very comfortable with a formulary approach to > medicine. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Dear , Thank you for this post! I have passed this info to someone that might benefit from this information. The breast cancer patient I am helping (who I have told you about) has mets to the bone but is literally petrified to try the biofosmates because she is afraid of jaw necrosis. I passed her your info for another opinion. Of course, it might depend on her dental situation, which I forgot to ask and will do. Another one of my counselees in NY used it and it was the only thing that stopped her pain. However, the current person I am helping is super sensitive to all meds, and usually if there is a side effect she gets it. Still, with more discussion on her part, perhaps she can ascertain whether it is a reasonable gamble to really get her out of her current situation. Thanks for posting this here!! Very timely information and good to know you have had thousands of experiences in the positive regarding this. Good job! Carol > > Rarely is a med or a procedure all good or all bad. I don't think one arrives at the most productive conclusions if one gets there through an adversarial or dialectic process. The use of bisphosphonates is an example. I won't comment on their use for osteoporosis as I don't see that many people with the problem. > > It is a very different problem if one has cancer mets to the bone. There are not many drugs that can stop the pain, but the bisphosphnates can. They often also reverse the cancer -- I have seen it repeatedly. Risedronate can stop toxoplasmosis when few other meds can. There is little evidence on the synergisms or additive affects for better or worse when one combines the bisphosphate analogs with the various chemotherapies, or even the many alternatives. It has been known for years that bisphosphonates prevent mets to the bone from breast, lung, and prostate cancers. Often they are used with multiple myeloma when nothing else seems to work. > > In thousands of cases I have not seen a single bone break or case of osteonecrosis attributable to bisphosphonates. Perhaps this is because we only use it when it seems sensible, that is, when there are no significant dental problems and because we don't use any of the usual chemotherapies. > > Whenever I hear a physician say that they never do this or they always do that then I suspect they are very comfortable with a formulary approach to medicine. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 my wife is a registered nurse The family practice has stop using these drugs because they have seen so many patients with this . Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 The new drug on the market is Denosumab (mab stands for monoclonal antibody), which apparently has less side affects that the currently prescribed bisphosphonates. The only downside, is that it does not yet have a track record. Fern From: Randall Crossley Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 my wife is a registered nurse The family practice has stop using these drugs because they have seen so many patients with this . Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I don't see where a family practice would have a great need for bisphosphonates. Shopping mall cops have no great need for hand grenades. Use the right tool for the right job. _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Randall Crossley Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [ ] bisphosphonates my wife is a registered nurse The�family practice has stop using these drugs because they have seen so many patients with this . Ray � Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Hi Fern thanks for the info on Denosumab.  I posted about bisphosphonates because I had friend break her hip while just doing a bit of gardening. Interesting about Denosumab from there web site  " Denosumab it is used to treat osteoporosis in postmenopausal women who are at high risk of experiencing fractures. After menopause, decreasing levels of estrogen can cause an acceleration of bone loss and an increase in the risk of bone fractures. Denosumab helps to restore bone mass and reduce this risk.Denosumab works by binding to and inhibiting receptors that stimulate bone resorption. These actions help increase bone mass and strengthen bones so they are less susceptible to injury. " but we don't know side effects of this one either Ray  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 any GP in a family practice can  percribe bisphosphonates. but I dont think this one  will be precribing  bisphosphonates any more . to menny problems.  They also do folow ups on patients referals to. Do's your family practice do this ,       ________________________________ From: Gammill <vgammill@...> Sent: Wed, 9 March, 2011 3:48:48 PM Subject: RE: [ ] bisphosphonates  I don't see where a family practice would have a great need for bisphosphonates. Shopping mall cops have no great need for hand grenades. Use the right tool for the right job. _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Randall Crossley Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [ ] bisphosphonates my wife is a registered nurse The�family practice has stop using these drugs because they have seen so many patients with this . Ray � Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Hi Ray, I heard about Denosumab from an oncologist I used to see, they are using it for bone mets. I have bone mets to the T2 vertebrae and 1st left rib. I currently have stable disease, if there was progression, I am on a clinical trial for T-DM1, a chemo treatment that ONLY targets the cancer using a non reducible esther link to DM1 and Herceptin. I am Her2+, which is great since there are good western treatments for this type of breast cancer and so far the trials are very positive. Hoping I don't have to go there. Best wishes Fern From: Randall Crossley Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 Hi Fern thanks for the info on Denosumab. I posted about bisphosphonates because I had friend break her hip while just doing a bit of gardening. Interesting about Denosumab from there web site " Denosumab it is used to treat osteoporosis in postmenopausal women who are at high risk of experiencing fractures. After menopause, decreasing levels of estrogen can cause an acceleration of bone loss and an increase in the risk of bone fractures. Denosumab helps to restore bone mass and reduce this risk. Denosumab works by binding to and inhibiting receptors that stimulate bone resorption. These actions help increase bone mass and strengthen bones so they are less susceptible to injury. " but we don't know side effects of this one either. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hi Fern yeah my dactor was going to put me on almost the same thing.  I have bone mets to  but they havent worried me for three years now . tuch wood I once remember I could not sleep I was in so much pain and I was feeling so sick death could not come quick enough but what my naturo path put me on I seem to be doing OK she give me more then just my life back she give me hope all the best Ray ,  ________________________________ From: Fern <fernsiman@...> Sent: Fri, 11 March, 2011 4:32:40 PM Subject: Re: [ ] bisphosphonates  Hi Ray, I heard about Denosumab from an oncologist I used to see, they are using it for bone mets. I have bone mets to the T2 vertebrae and 1st left rib. I currently have stable disease, if there was progression, I am on a clinical trial for T-DM1, a chemo treatment that ONLY targets the cancer using a non reducible esther link to DM1 and Herceptin. I am Her2+, which is great since there are good western treatments for this type of breast cancer and so far the trials are very positive. Hoping I don't have to go there. Best wishes Fern From: Randall Crossley Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 Hi Fern thanks for the info on Denosumab. I posted about bisphosphonates because I had friend break her hip while just doing a bit of gardening. Interesting about Denosumab from there web site " Denosumab it is used to treat osteoporosis in postmenopausal women who are at high risk of experiencing fractures. After menopause, decreasing levels of estrogen can cause an acceleration of bone loss and an increase in the risk of bone fractures. Denosumab helps to restore bone mass and reduce this risk. Denosumab works by binding to and inhibiting receptors that stimulate bone resorption. These actions help increase bone mass and strengthen bones so they are less susceptible to injury. " but we don't know side effects of this one either. Ray Fern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 What did your naturopath put you on? Thanks, Robyn Hi Fern yeah my dactor was going to put me on almost the same thing. I have bone mets to but they havent worried me for three years now . tuch wood I once remember I could not sleep I was in so much pain and I was feeling so sick death could not come quick enough but what my naturo path put me on I seem to be doing OK she give me more then just my life back she give me hope. all the best Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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