Who recovers, who loses

[Guest guest]

At 03:39 PM 1/26/2009, Loretta wrote:

>One of the most difficult things to do is to

>undo the words of family, friends and most

>doctors! Words permeate our soul and mind – the

>part of us where our belief & hope is kept.

>Uncharitable or uninformed words can literally

>speak life or death to one with cancer. It is

>very difficult for a person to focus on getting

>well when having to deal with the uneducated words of those around him/her.

Words and actions can equally be used for the

benefit of the patient. There have been

occasions when I have asked new patients if they

have made out a will. If they have I tell them

to go tear it up because they aren't going to

need it. The purpose is to try to undo the

damage to the psyche that the diagnosing

physician does when he/she comes into the room

shaking his head and in a lugubrious tone informs

the victim that the lab confirmed cancer -- i.e., issued a death warrant.

Years ago I worked with Dr. Spaos in

Cyprus. Before he would work with a new patient

he would have them bring in all their

prescription medicines. He would then take them

out on the Mediterranean in his boat, and without

explanation he would wrap up all the meds with a

stick of dynamite and blow them up. He would

then return to port and start his treatment.

[Guest guest]

THank you for your post.  I have a fighter of a husband, who at the present time

is very sick.  He has a a lot of pain.   He has aggressive B-cell lymphoma, for

the second time.  He had chemo the first time.  I felt strongly, through a lot

of sincere prayer, that we needed to do this the natural way this time.  He has

been juice fasting for 38 days now.  He seems very weak.  He has been doing a

ton of other herbal teas, colonics, energy work, cold sheet treatments, etc.... 

I am weary of all this.  We have 9 children.  I am worried.  I want to know

about your clinic.  You could email me privately if you wish.  I may need to do

something more.  I just don't know what. 

THank you,

Karyn

________________________________

From: VGammill <vgammill@...>

Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 11:28:47 AM

Subject: [ ] Who recovers, who loses

At 07:02 PM 1/25/2009, you wrote:

> >The foundation for ANY healing protocol must come from a place of

>positive emotion and belief, for without this, no stage can be set,

>no foundation laid for a strong house.

> >

This seems to be quite true, but I think we can explore further.

I have seen thousands of people with cancer over decades and because

of the nature of my program I get to know many of them quite well. I

constantly search for factors that seem to affect outcomes. Some

factors are obvious: Can the patient afford the requisite meds? How

disciplined is the patient? Is there multiple drug resistance that

would undermine a fresh approach?

When I go over the numbers of people who do extremely well with the

worst cancers, I see a major factor that can't be characterized

better than by saying how upbeat they are. This upbeatness seems to

be closely associated with both their intrinsic nature and often

their religion.

If anyone on the list is shopping for a religion, I can help. Pick

one that emphasizes the positive. I don't think it is beneficial to

dwell on perdition, shame, guilt, or even too much thinking about

spiritual matters. Pick a religion that strongly emphasizes service

to others. Pick a religion with a sense of community -- especially a

community that will support your medical choices. I see a sense of

joy, and humor, and general upbeatness that I don't see elsewhere.

If religions rub you the wrong way, find an organization that you

believe in that stresses service to others even though those services

are largely limited to those within the group. AA jumps to mind. If

your organization or religion doesn't buy into

alternative/ integrative medicine, then keep details of your approach

to health very selective.

Another thing to keep in mind is that not all cancer support groups

are created equal. I have had many clients who were virtual refugees

from conventional support groups. They would watch as their

new-found friends would die one by one. Any alternative suggestions

were met with hostility. I think such groups are cults created to

worship physicians and misery. The same is true for some of the

on-line groups.

If upbeatness is not a part of your nature it can still be attained

obliquely through service, but there is one type of upbeatness that

is not in your interest. This is unwarranted ebullience. It is not

in your interest to have your emotions whipsawed by numbers on your

tumor marker tests or any other single parameter. In cancer, things

are rarely as good as they may seem and rarely as bad as they

seem. A certain equanimity can serve you well in patiently assessing

your situation.

Equally important is belief, as this allows you to relax. That

belief can be a belief in an omnipotent God who loves you enormously,

or it can be an unshakable faith in the road chosen, it can even be a

smug belief that you can solve every problem yourself.

I think that loving your work helps inoculate you against serious

disease. We have a 75 y/o immunologist on the board of our center

who has metastatic renal cancer. This was diagnosed four years

ago. He was told he had about a month to live. He is not a good

patient. Quality of life, he says. I think he has cheese with every

meal. He is totally distracted by his work. He flies around the

world giving speeches at immunology conferences, spends time in the

lab, writes papers (some 350 peer-reviewed) , and applies for

grants. He and I have set up a new lab to make meds that are

otherwise unobtainable. I think he plans to be on this planet from

here on out. He is one very upbeat man.

I had a case of a woman with breast cancer whose abdomen was rigid

with metastases. She came to Del Mar, CA to do our program, but she

would miss appointments because she was having too much fun

shopping. It was a little frustrating for me. Her cancer just

melted away. I found out later that when she came here she was also

escaping an abusive husband. When she kept her appointments she

would spend much of the time laughing.

There was a woman who came to me last July. She had massive cancers

filling her entire left breast. All her physicians -- both

conventional and integrative -- strongly recommended surgery. She

declined. She said she liked her breasts. This woman has been very

diligent doing the program -- unlike the last woman I mentioned. We

had an ultrasound elastogram done this week and her cancer is almost

entirely gone. What little remains appears mostly benign and cannot

be palpated. She has also lost about 40 unwanted pounds thanks to

the diet. The woman is a nationally known cartoonist and sees the

humor in almost anything.

Who are the losers in spite of winning therapies? First of all those

who want to die. I see this most often among women who were once

very proud of their bodies and have been horribly mutilated by

surgery. I am not talking about a simple mastectomy. There are

bodies that look like they have been through a war zone. These women

fear rejection or have been rejected by their love interest. It is

sad and I have no facile solution.

Passive or lazy people tend to lose and this includes those who are

too philosophical about their cancer. These people need to learn

that they create their own destiny. I am always looking for ways to

light a fire under their tails to get them motivated.

Hostile people tend to lose. I am careful to distinguish whether a

person is argumentative for non-hostile reasons. I once had a woman

whom I thought was hostile but she did very well. You learn from

those cases that you think you are going to win and then lose, and

from those cases that you think you are going to lose and then

win. I analyzed her case: why did she win? It turns out she is a

businesswoman and her arguments were always over money. Her

arguments over money were sincere -- she truly hated to spend money

-- but in retrospect I think there was a strong element of sport in

it. So often truly hostile people want to escape something or hurt

someone. Some people fight to live; I think this woman lived to fight !!!

If anyone knows a good service-oriented, non-accusatory religion, let

me know so I can sign up. Oh, its gotta have a Black choir !!

[Guest guest]

Very interesting thoughts from .

Back in the 50s, when fasting at Herbert Shelton's Hygienic Ranch in San

, Texas, the first thing he did with new patients was to throw away their

medications. This included people with serious heart conditions. Shelton was

one of the original Naturopaths that was very tuned into 'proper' eating.

Fasting was ordered for almost everyone and was limited to Water only and total

physiological rest with a maximum of 15 minutes sun bathing daily.

For the purposes of this list, this fasting expert did not recommend fasting in

cases of cancer but that was more than 50 years ago. He did speculate that

perhaps, after surgery, it might be appropriate but not as a first-line effort.

Joe C.

[Guest guest]

Karyn,

Please go see asap. You guys need to fight with a coach!

can be a good coach for you.

Bless you,

Johanne

From: karyn hughes

Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:12 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Who recovers, who loses

THank you for your post. I have a fighter of a husband, who at the present time

is very sick. He has a a lot of pain. He has aggressive B-cell lymphoma, for

the second time. He had chemo the first time. I felt strongly, through a lot

of sincere prayer, that we needed to do this the natural way this time. He has

been juice fasting for 38 days now. He seems very weak. He has been doing a

ton of other herbal teas, colonics, energy work, cold sheet treatments, etc....

I am weary of all this. We have 9 children. I am worried. I want to know

about your clinic. You could email me privately if you wish. I may need to do

something more. I just don't know what.

THank you,

Karyn

________________________________

From: VGammill <vgammill@...>

Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 11:28:47 AM

Subject: [ ] Who recovers, who loses

At 07:02 PM 1/25/2009, you wrote:

> >The foundation for ANY healing protocol must come from a place of

>positive emotion and belief, for without this, no stage can be set,

>no foundation laid for a strong house.

> >

This seems to be quite true, but I think we can explore further.

I have seen thousands of people with cancer over decades and because

of the nature of my program I get to know many of them quite well. I

constantly search for factors that seem to affect outcomes. Some

factors are obvious: Can the patient afford the requisite meds? How

disciplined is the patient? Is there multiple drug resistance that

would undermine a fresh approach?

When I go over the numbers of people who do extremely well with the

worst cancers, I see a major factor that can't be characterized

better than by saying how upbeat they are. This upbeatness seems to

be closely associated with both their intrinsic nature and often

their religion.

If anyone on the list is shopping for a religion, I can help. Pick

one that emphasizes the positive. I don't think it is beneficial to

dwell on perdition, shame, guilt, or even too much thinking about

spiritual matters. Pick a religion that strongly emphasizes service

to others. Pick a religion with a sense of community -- especially a

community that will support your medical choices. I see a sense of

joy, and humor, and general upbeatness that I don't see elsewhere.

If religions rub you the wrong way, find an organization that you

believe in that stresses service to others even though those services

are largely limited to those within the group. AA jumps to mind. If

your organization or religion doesn't buy into

alternative/ integrative medicine, then keep details of your approach

to health very selective.

Another thing to keep in mind is that not all cancer support groups

are created equal. I have had many clients who were virtual refugees

from conventional support groups. They would watch as their

new-found friends would die one by one. Any alternative suggestions

were met with hostility. I think such groups are cults created to

worship physicians and misery. The same is true for some of the

on-line groups.

If upbeatness is not a part of your nature it can still be attained

obliquely through service, but there is one type of upbeatness that

is not in your interest. This is unwarranted ebullience. It is not

in your interest to have your emotions whipsawed by numbers on your

tumor marker tests or any other single parameter. In cancer, things

are rarely as good as they may seem and rarely as bad as they

seem. A certain equanimity can serve you well in patiently assessing

your situation.

Equally important is belief, as this allows you to relax. That

belief can be a belief in an omnipotent God who loves you enormously,

or it can be an unshakable faith in the road chosen, it can even be a

smug belief that you can solve every problem yourself.

I think that loving your work helps inoculate you against serious

disease. We have a 75 y/o immunologist on the board of our center

who has metastatic renal cancer. This was diagnosed four years

ago. He was told he had about a month to live. He is not a good

patient. Quality of life, he says. I think he has cheese with every

meal. He is totally distracted by his work. He flies around the

world giving speeches at immunology conferences, spends time in the

lab, writes papers (some 350 peer-reviewed) , and applies for

grants. He and I have set up a new lab to make meds that are

otherwise unobtainable. I think he plans to be on this planet from

here on out. He is one very upbeat man.

I had a case of a woman with breast cancer whose abdomen was rigid

with metastases. She came to Del Mar, CA to do our program, but she

would miss appointments because she was having too much fun

shopping. It was a little frustrating for me. Her cancer just

melted away. I found out later that when she came here she was also

escaping an abusive husband. When she kept her appointments she

would spend much of the time laughing.

There was a woman who came to me last July. She had massive cancers

filling her entire left breast. All her physicians -- both

conventional and integrative -- strongly recommended surgery. She

declined. She said she liked her breasts. This woman has been very

diligent doing the program -- unlike the last woman I mentioned. We

had an ultrasound elastogram done this week and her cancer is almost

entirely gone. What little remains appears mostly benign and cannot

be palpated. She has also lost about 40 unwanted pounds thanks to

the diet. The woman is a nationally known cartoonist and sees the

humor in almost anything.

Who are the losers in spite of winning therapies? First of all those

who want to die. I see this most often among women who were once

very proud of their bodies and have been horribly mutilated by

surgery. I am not talking about a simple mastectomy. There are

bodies that look like they have been through a war zone. These women

fear rejection or have been rejected by their love interest. It is

sad and I have no facile solution.

Passive or lazy people tend to lose and this includes those who are

too philosophical about their cancer. These people need to learn

that they create their own destiny. I am always looking for ways to

light a fire under their tails to get them motivated.

Hostile people tend to lose. I am careful to distinguish whether a

person is argumentative for non-hostile reasons. I once had a woman

whom I thought was hostile but she did very well. You learn from

those cases that you think you are going to win and then lose, and

from those cases that you think you are going to lose and then

win. I analyzed her case: why did she win? It turns out she is a

businesswoman and her arguments were always over money. Her

arguments over money were sincere -- she truly hated to spend money

-- but in retrospect I think there was a strong element of sport in

it. So often truly hostile people want to escape something or hurt

someone. Some people fight to live; I think this woman lived to fight !!!

If anyone knows a good service-oriented, non-accusatory religion, let

me know so I can sign up. Oh, its gotta have a Black choir !!

[Guest guest]

Where is the clinic where practice? Is there a website and contact

number of the clinic?

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Center for the Study of Natural Oncology

437 S. Highway 101 Suite 201

Solana Beach, CA 92075

(858)523-9144

(800)557-2944

E-mail: staff@...

Website (still under construction): http://www.natural-oncology.org

From: Misrak Leta

Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 10:19 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Who recovers, who loses

Where is the clinic where practice? Is there a website and contact

number of the clinic?

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

I often think out loud to allow the client to participate in what I

think of as rational thought processes. I hope to entrain them into

the habit of doing this themselves. Some clients can get a little

panicky in the process: some show it, others don't. I tell them that

they have to learn to be somewhat cold-blooded in this process,

specifically, they must think of themselves as a hypothetical

case. An occasional spike of breakthrough panic is not going to

adversely affect outcome. We have evolved to accommodate this and

even harness it.

The killer is fear-induce siege. This can be seen entrenched in

the face, in loss of appetite, in loss of ready humor, in a paralyzed

life. It cannot be remedied by " OK, I take back what I said, " by

forced feeding, by a massage, or by watching a few comedies on

TV. When the fear-induced siege or emotional devastation is such

that autonomic nervous system dysfunction ensues, it may take from

three to six months to undo the damage. There is actual organic

damage in the brain. I often suspect this when families tell me that

the patient's personality has changed, they have become very

difficult to live with. Negative emotions dominate over reasoning

even when there is minimal pain involved.

Perhaps some list members can describe some of the psychological

hells that they have traversed and how they liberated themselves. I

can always use more tools in my toolbox.

[Guest guest]

Hi Johanne,

I too have a toxic family. My mother and I battled for my entire life. She

was very vicious to me as was my sister. My mother is dead and my sister and I

have been estranged for many years. My father is very cold and mean and

although he sends me money for various holidays, there is no exchange of

anything

between us. I consider myself to be an orphan.

When my mother died, my father threw the box with her ashes into the corner

of the garage with the garbage. I rescued it and carried out her last wishes

to be scattered to the ocean.

I am sure that the hateful actions of family can absolutely contribute to

illness later in life. There is nothing we can do about our family, only about

ourselves. We can create new family, either through marriage or friendship.

My beloved dog is my family and no one can love a person like a dog can (lol).

They do not judge us, they just accept us and love us unconditionally. Do

you have pets? People who have pets tend to live longer lives, especially in old

age.

Best,

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> If anyone knows a good service-oriented, non-accusatory religion, let

> me know so I can sign up. Oh, its gotta have a Black choir !!

>

..you are sooooo funny! Thank you for the laugh!!!!

From what you were writing, I thought that you already had a religion like

this..until I got to the last paragraph. In fact, I was going to write and ask

you what religion you had found that gives you all this?

From everything you've described, I would say that Buddhism fits your

qualifictions to a T.

Hugs,

[Guest guest]

Thanks for identifying with me.

For many years, I thought there was something wrong with me! Well, I certainly

am not perfect but never asked to have parental rejection. The disease did not

move my family one bit. My mother-in-law wanted me to die quickly! Little did

she know.........

Through this, the power of the human spirit is pretty amazing.

Bless you,

Johanne

From: szukipoo@...

Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 2:29 PM

Subject: [ ] Who recovers, who loses

Hi Johanne,

I too have a toxic family. My mother and I battled for my entire life. She

was very vicious to me as was my sister. My mother is dead and my sister and I

have been estranged for many years. My father is very cold and mean and

although he sends me money for various holidays, there is no exchange of

anything

between us. I consider myself to be an orphan.

When my mother died, my father threw the box with her ashes into the corner

of the garage with the garbage. I rescued it and carried out her last wishes

to be scattered to the ocean.

I am sure that the hateful actions of family can absolutely contribute to

illness later in life. There is nothing we can do about our family, only about

ourselves. We can create new family, either through marriage or friendship.

My beloved dog is my family and no one can love a person like a dog can (lol).

They do not judge us, they just accept us and love us unconditionally. Do

you have pets? People who have pets tend to live longer lives, especially in old

age.

Best,

[Guest guest]

Buddhism doesn't have choirs -- black, white, or polka dot!

Tibetan monks do come out with some wild chants though!

> > If anyone knows a good service-oriented, non-accusatory religion,

let

> > me know so I can sign up. Oh, its gotta have a Black choir !!

> >

>

> ..you are sooooo funny! Thank you for the laugh!!!!

>

> From what you were writing, I thought that you already had a

religion like

> this..until I got to the last paragraph. In fact, I was going to

write and ask

> you what religion you had found that gives you all this?

>

> From everything you've described, I would say that Buddhism fits

your

> qualifictions to a T.

>

> Hugs,

>

>