Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 You are correct. Users can make statements about their own personal views or perceived results as long as they are not manufacturing the device or product, or rendering a paid service for such claimed results. Mike From: Randy <randynmdgmail (DOT) com> Subject: Re: Rife & cancer To: Rifeyahoogroups (DOT) com Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 11:17 AM Dr. Flaig, Remem>ber you said that consumers should ask manufacturers about the effectiveness of their devices. They can't say on websites that they cure anything and not even in private emails to individuals. So what you're now saying is that consumers shouldn't ask manufacturers about the effectiveness of their devices. The only thing manufacturers are left with is to say their devices " may " " help " and that is not much of a recommendation. I feel like we're going ring-around- the-rosy on this issue. Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 You are correct. Users can make statements about their own personal views or perceived results as long as they are not manufacturing the device or product, or rendering a paid service for such claimed results. Mike From: Randy <randynmdgmail (DOT) com> Subject: Re: Rife & cancer To: Rifeyahoogroups (DOT) com Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 11:17 AM Dr. Flaig, Remem>ber you said that consumers should ask manufacturers about the effectiveness of their devices. They can't say on websites that they cure anything and not even in private emails to individuals. So what you're now saying is that consumers shouldn't ask manufacturers about the effectiveness of their devices. The only thing manufacturers are left with is to say their devices " may " " help " and that is not much of a recommendation. I feel like we're going ring-around- the-rosy on this issue. Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Dr. Flaig, Okay I will quote your own words to you: >Further, there have been a lot of con-artists producing " Rife " machines and selling them to desperate people that someone needs to ask " do you have any evidence of effectiveness? " < True, you did not use the word " consumer " , you used the word " someone " . True, you did not use the word " manufacturers " , you used the word " con-artists " . Of course we are free to express our own opinions, when did I ever say otherwise? I'm only pointing out that commercial speech is regulated (i.e. concerning the selling of Rife-type devices) and specifically the FDA regulates medical claims. As for the " evidence of effectiveness " this is what the manufacturers are barred from saying to anyone (whether they are " someone " or they are consumers) unless they engage in prohibitively expensive FDA-approved studies. So if you want to forget about asking the " con-artists " if they have " evidence " that's okay with me. This was not an issue raised by me. Randy > > > Randy, > I don't believe that I said that consumer should ask manufactures about the > efficacy of their equipment because the manufacture can't answer that > question for legal reasons. What I said was that customers should post on a > database the results of using a specific piece of equipment along with > specific information about the nature of their problem, validation > information, the treatment, the results and validation of results. We, as > consumers, are free to say whatever we want about a product and the FDA has > no authority to stop us thanks to the First Amendment to the > Constitution. > > > > > From: Randy <randynmd@... <randynmd%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: Rife & cancer > To: Rife <Rife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 11:17 AM > > Dr. Flaig, > > Remem>ber you said that consumers should ask manufacturers about the > effectiveness of their devices. They can't say on websites that they cure > anything and not even in private emails to individuals. So what you're now > saying is that consumers shouldn't ask manufacturers about the > effectiveness > of their devices. The only thing manufacturers are left with is to say > their > devices " may " " help " and that is not much of a recommendation. I feel like > we're going ring-around- the-rosy on this issue. > > Randy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Dr. Flaig, Okay I will quote your own words to you: >Further, there have been a lot of con-artists producing " Rife " machines and selling them to desperate people that someone needs to ask " do you have any evidence of effectiveness? " < True, you did not use the word " consumer " , you used the word " someone " . True, you did not use the word " manufacturers " , you used the word " con-artists " . Of course we are free to express our own opinions, when did I ever say otherwise? I'm only pointing out that commercial speech is regulated (i.e. concerning the selling of Rife-type devices) and specifically the FDA regulates medical claims. As for the " evidence of effectiveness " this is what the manufacturers are barred from saying to anyone (whether they are " someone " or they are consumers) unless they engage in prohibitively expensive FDA-approved studies. So if you want to forget about asking the " con-artists " if they have " evidence " that's okay with me. This was not an issue raised by me. Randy > > > Randy, > I don't believe that I said that consumer should ask manufactures about the > efficacy of their equipment because the manufacture can't answer that > question for legal reasons. What I said was that customers should post on a > database the results of using a specific piece of equipment along with > specific information about the nature of their problem, validation > information, the treatment, the results and validation of results. We, as > consumers, are free to say whatever we want about a product and the FDA has > no authority to stop us thanks to the First Amendment to the > Constitution. > > > > > From: Randy <randynmd@... <randynmd%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: Rife & cancer > To: Rife <Rife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 11:17 AM > > Dr. Flaig, > > Remem>ber you said that consumers should ask manufacturers about the > effectiveness of their devices. They can't say on websites that they cure > anything and not even in private emails to individuals. So what you're now > saying is that consumers shouldn't ask manufacturers about the > effectiveness > of their devices. The only thing manufacturers are left with is to say > their > devices " may " " help " and that is not much of a recommendation. I feel like > we're going ring-around- the-rosy on this issue. > > Randy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Dr. Flaig, Okay I will quote your own words to you: >Further, there have been a lot of con-artists producing " Rife " machines and selling them to desperate people that someone needs to ask " do you have any evidence of effectiveness? " < True, you did not use the word " consumer " , you used the word " someone " . True, you did not use the word " manufacturers " , you used the word " con-artists " . Of course we are free to express our own opinions, when did I ever say otherwise? I'm only pointing out that commercial speech is regulated (i.e. concerning the selling of Rife-type devices) and specifically the FDA regulates medical claims. As for the " evidence of effectiveness " this is what the manufacturers are barred from saying to anyone (whether they are " someone " or they are consumers) unless they engage in prohibitively expensive FDA-approved studies. So if you want to forget about asking the " con-artists " if they have " evidence " that's okay with me. This was not an issue raised by me. Randy > > > Randy, > I don't believe that I said that consumer should ask manufactures about the > efficacy of their equipment because the manufacture can't answer that > question for legal reasons. What I said was that customers should post on a > database the results of using a specific piece of equipment along with > specific information about the nature of their problem, validation > information, the treatment, the results and validation of results. We, as > consumers, are free to say whatever we want about a product and the FDA has > no authority to stop us thanks to the First Amendment to the > Constitution. > > > > > From: Randy <randynmd@... <randynmd%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: Rife & cancer > To: Rife <Rife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 11:17 AM > > Dr. Flaig, > > Remem>ber you said that consumers should ask manufacturers about the > effectiveness of their devices. They can't say on websites that they cure > anything and not even in private emails to individuals. So what you're now > saying is that consumers shouldn't ask manufacturers about the > effectiveness > of their devices. The only thing manufacturers are left with is to say > their > devices " may " " help " and that is not much of a recommendation. I feel like > we're going ring-around- the-rosy on this issue. > > Randy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Randy, I think your going down the wrong logical path. It is logical to ask a supplier if they have any evidence that the thing you thinking about buying is effective and if they are a reputable supplier they will try to provide it. Now, in the case of Rife machines a supplier can not legally offer such supporting evidence. However, they could refer the potential customer to a website were the database I suggested would help the customer make a reasonable decision. Dr. Flaig > > > Randy, > I don't believe that I said that consumer should ask manufactures about the > efficacy of their equipment because the manufacture can't answer that > question for legal reasons. What I said was that customers should post on a > database the results of using a specific piece of equipment along with > specific information about the nature of their problem, validation > information, the treatment, the results and validation of results. We, as > consumers, are free to say whatever we want about a product and the FDA has > no authority to stop us thanks to the First Amendment to the > Constitution. > [sNIP] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Randy, I think your going down the wrong logical path. It is logical to ask a supplier if they have any evidence that the thing you thinking about buying is effective and if they are a reputable supplier they will try to provide it. Now, in the case of Rife machines a supplier can not legally offer such supporting evidence. However, they could refer the potential customer to a website were the database I suggested would help the customer make a reasonable decision. Dr. Flaig > > > Randy, > I don't believe that I said that consumer should ask manufactures about the > efficacy of their equipment because the manufacture can't answer that > question for legal reasons. What I said was that customers should post on a > database the results of using a specific piece of equipment along with > specific information about the nature of their problem, validation > information, the treatment, the results and validation of results. We, as > consumers, are free to say whatever we want about a product and the FDA has > no authority to stop us thanks to the First Amendment to the > Constitution. > [sNIP] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Randy, I think your going down the wrong logical path. It is logical to ask a supplier if they have any evidence that the thing you thinking about buying is effective and if they are a reputable supplier they will try to provide it. Now, in the case of Rife machines a supplier can not legally offer such supporting evidence. However, they could refer the potential customer to a website were the database I suggested would help the customer make a reasonable decision. Dr. Flaig > > > Randy, > I don't believe that I said that consumer should ask manufactures about the > efficacy of their equipment because the manufacture can't answer that > question for legal reasons. What I said was that customers should post on a > database the results of using a specific piece of equipment along with > specific information about the nature of their problem, validation > information, the treatment, the results and validation of results. We, as > consumers, are free to say whatever we want about a product and the FDA has > no authority to stop us thanks to the First Amendment to the > Constitution. > [sNIP] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 As for suppliers of Rife-type devices, I think the recent court case included an objection to the defendant's links on his website, but I would have to do research to confirm this. The FDA is serious about preventing suppliers of Rife-type machines from saying anything substantive about their devices. Apparently the court decided that using the word " Rife " in connection with a device constituted a medical claim. It is doubtful that suppliers can provide a link to a website in which the participants make the claims for him. Courts usually consider that to be a subterfuge and won't accept it. > > > Randy, > I think your going down the wrong logical path. It is logical to ask a > supplier if they have any evidence that the thing you thinking about buying > is effective and if they are a reputable supplier they will try to provide > it. > Now, in the case of Rife machines a supplier can not legally offer such > supporting evidence. However, they could refer the potential customer to a > website were the database I suggested would help the customer make a > reasonable decision. > Dr. Flaig > > > > > > > > > > Randy, > > I don't believe that I said that consumer should ask manufactures about > the > > efficacy of their equipment because the manufacture can't answer that > > question for legal reasons. What I said was that customers should post on > a > > database the results of using a specific piece of equipment along with > > specific information about the nature of their problem, validation > > information, the treatment, the results and validation of results. We, as > > consumers, are free to say whatever we want about a product and the FDA > has > > no authority to stop us thanks to the First Amendment to the > > Constitution. > > > > [sNIP] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 As for suppliers of Rife-type devices, I think the recent court case included an objection to the defendant's links on his website, but I would have to do research to confirm this. The FDA is serious about preventing suppliers of Rife-type machines from saying anything substantive about their devices. Apparently the court decided that using the word " Rife " in connection with a device constituted a medical claim. It is doubtful that suppliers can provide a link to a website in which the participants make the claims for him. Courts usually consider that to be a subterfuge and won't accept it. > > > Randy, > I think your going down the wrong logical path. It is logical to ask a > supplier if they have any evidence that the thing you thinking about buying > is effective and if they are a reputable supplier they will try to provide > it. > Now, in the case of Rife machines a supplier can not legally offer such > supporting evidence. However, they could refer the potential customer to a > website were the database I suggested would help the customer make a > reasonable decision. > Dr. Flaig > > > > > > > > > > Randy, > > I don't believe that I said that consumer should ask manufactures about > the > > efficacy of their equipment because the manufacture can't answer that > > question for legal reasons. What I said was that customers should post on > a > > database the results of using a specific piece of equipment along with > > specific information about the nature of their problem, validation > > information, the treatment, the results and validation of results. We, as > > consumers, are free to say whatever we want about a product and the FDA > has > > no authority to stop us thanks to the First Amendment to the > > Constitution. > > > > [sNIP] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 As for suppliers of Rife-type devices, I think the recent court case included an objection to the defendant's links on his website, but I would have to do research to confirm this. The FDA is serious about preventing suppliers of Rife-type machines from saying anything substantive about their devices. Apparently the court decided that using the word " Rife " in connection with a device constituted a medical claim. It is doubtful that suppliers can provide a link to a website in which the participants make the claims for him. Courts usually consider that to be a subterfuge and won't accept it. > > > Randy, > I think your going down the wrong logical path. It is logical to ask a > supplier if they have any evidence that the thing you thinking about buying > is effective and if they are a reputable supplier they will try to provide > it. > Now, in the case of Rife machines a supplier can not legally offer such > supporting evidence. However, they could refer the potential customer to a > website were the database I suggested would help the customer make a > reasonable decision. > Dr. Flaig > > > > > > > > > > Randy, > > I don't believe that I said that consumer should ask manufactures about > the > > efficacy of their equipment because the manufacture can't answer that > > question for legal reasons. What I said was that customers should post on > a > > database the results of using a specific piece of equipment along with > > specific information about the nature of their problem, validation > > information, the treatment, the results and validation of results. We, as > > consumers, are free to say whatever we want about a product and the FDA > has > > no authority to stop us thanks to the First Amendment to the > > Constitution. > > > > [sNIP] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Randy, I agree 100% with you on this one. I think supplier might be able to suggest that the customer visit a website that contains survey inputs but the suppler better not have ANY connection with that website. > > > > > > > Randy, > > I don't believe that I said that consumer should ask manufactures about > the > > efficacy of their equipment because the manufacture can't answer that > > question for legal reasons. What I said was that customers should post on > a > > database the results of using a specific piece of equipment along with > > specific information about the nature of their problem, validation > > information, the treatment, the results and validation of results. We, as > > consumers, are free to say whatever we want about a product and the FDA > has > > no authority to stop us thanks to the First Amendment to the > > Constitution. > > > > [sNIP] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Randy, I agree 100% with you on this one. I think supplier might be able to suggest that the customer visit a website that contains survey inputs but the suppler better not have ANY connection with that website. > > > > > > > Randy, > > I don't believe that I said that consumer should ask manufactures about > the > > efficacy of their equipment because the manufacture can't answer that > > question for legal reasons. What I said was that customers should post on > a > > database the results of using a specific piece of equipment along with > > specific information about the nature of their problem, validation > > information, the treatment, the results and validation of results. We, as > > consumers, are free to say whatever we want about a product and the FDA > has > > no authority to stop us thanks to the First Amendment to the > > Constitution. > > > > [sNIP] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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