gallstone-like pain without a gallbladder

[Guest guest]

I had a lap cholecystectomy 3 or 4 years ago. I have still had pain

once in awhile in the same area as my gallbladder, and even a couple

of short (10 minutes) " attacks " . I just recently had laparoscopic

surgery to have an adjustable gastric band (AGB) implanted, and this

has reduced my food intake. I have noticed since then that I have

more pain in my gallbladder/bile duct area than I did before the AGB

surgery. I don't think it's a direct result of the AGB surgery,

because the part of the liver they move to get access to the stomach

is pretty far away from the bile duct. I think it may be more due to

the fact that I don't eat as much, because I notice that the pain

gets better or even goes away when I EAT. Is that strange, or what?

Should I go to my doctor and get a full battery of tests (e.g., liver

function blood tests, ultrasound, ERCP)? Should I try this " liver

flush " thing? I am afraid of doing anything that could be dangerous--

are there risks to a liver flush? Has anyone had a bad outcome from

doing one?

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I had a lap cholecystectomy 3 or 4 years ago. I

have still had pain

once in awhile in the same area as my gallbladder, and even a couple

of short (10 minutes) " attacks " . I just recently had laparoscopic

surgery to have an adjustable gastric band (AGB) implanted, and this

has reduced my food intake. I have noticed since then that I have

more pain in my gallbladder/bile duct area than I did before the AGB

surgery. I don't think it's a direct result of the AGB surgery,

because the part of the liver they move to get access to the stomach

is pretty far away from the bile duct. I think it may be more due to

the fact that I don't eat as much, because I notice that the pain

gets better or even goes away when I EAT. Is that strange, or what?

Should I go to my doctor and get a full battery of tests (e.g., liver

function blood tests, ultrasound, ERCP)? Should I try this " liver

flush " thing? I am afraid of doing anything that could be dangerous--

are there risks to a liver flush? Has anyone had a bad outcome from

doing one?

Thanks,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

;

The first thought out of my mind is " Wow! " I can't see having to do such a

procedure as this banding of the stomach when I know for a fact that just eating

right and taking in the right types of fat will actually cause one to lose

weight in a more non-invasive manner. Granted it does take some time to reshape

doing this but the body appears to do so at a pace that will not cause the

formation of bile stones in the liver.

I just read some regarding this procedure and find it to be questionable.

However to someone desperate to lose a proportionate amount of weight in a very

short length of time it would appear as a god send. Yet this procedure really

only looks to get 40% of that weight, so, I'm sure eating a far better diet,

with exercise, is going to be the modality to getting the other and most major

percentage of weight loss. Not to mention it will also be the means by which the

body will reshape. That is; from the pear shape to the hour glass look, even if

in larger proportions.

http://www.surgicallyslim.com/lap_adj_gastr_band.htm

Your loss of a gallbladder certainly doesn't mean the end to the same

gallbladder disease symptoms since the liver and the gallbladder were so closely

related to the original problem in the first place. My worst gallbladder attack

occurred when I was now free of gallstones as evidenced by a most thorough

ultrasound test done while I was having this attack. What I had was a liver

attack.

A liver attack can happen when it hasn't be getting the right nutrition that it

needs. The liver needs fats!! The problem with this is getting to realize just

what types of fats it needs and then providing it with what it needs. I came to

realize that my super avoidance of Essential Fatty Acids had caused me to damage

my liver. The blood test that was done at the time of my last attack in October

of 99 showed serious levels of liver enzymes, which is indicative of liver

damage. I really thought I was doing myself really good by avoiding all sorts of

fats. I did in one sense by getting rid of my gallstones but not in taking care

of my liver.

I would suggest getting a diet going of which is simply void of saturated animal

fat and hydrogenated fats as well as avoiding refined foods, such as refined

white wheat flour. Then start taking in foods rich in essential fatty acids,

like you would find with avocados and other fruits along with vegetables.

Doing this it is quite possible to reduce the discomfort in the area of the

liver from these attacks of which you've noted. But, take note of this too, when

the liver gets stimulated with good foods it can also tend to feel like an

attack but it will feel just a bit different and not really be a bad type of

discomfort. It takes a bit of doing to get the feel but I think in time with the

change in eating habits a person can really start to realize all the various

nuances of the various stimulants they can eat for the liver and body's good.

In your particular case I'm sure with the banding you would realize quite a

quick change in the amount of weight lost. But keep in mind that in order to

really loose weight properly the body must get rid of the used matter. The liver

is the one organ along with the digestive waste track to do that because the

liver is " The fat burning organ of the body " . So, by taking good care of it

along with the waste track the process of losing weight becomes a " no brainer "

after a very short time but to do that it also requires an understanding of just

how fiber works into the equation.

Eating foods that are not only rich in essential fatty acid but also high in

fiber goes a long way towards getting the body reshaped. Now keep in mind too

that reshaping doesn't mean getting to an unreasonable shape. Each body is

different and you will just have to find where your shape works the best.

Eating foods or taking supplemented fiber will certainly help the liver to have

a trash can into which to place the excess fat by way of bile and the

cholesterol that it contains. This is just one of the reasons why you hear it

advertised that eating a high fiber diet can help prevent heart disease or other

problems. The only problem is that they don't tell you why. The reason why is

because with a diet that has a good fat and plenty of fiber the liver is going

to produce the right cholesterol and then be able to get out the bad

cholesterol, or better yet what's bad when in over abundance.

There are two fiber types; soluble and insoluble. Soluble fiber is like a gel

and insoluble fiber is what is like the husk of a kernel of corn. it doesn't

digest to a gel but can, if chewed properly, can make for a solid mass to help

carry the gel type of fiber that will absorb the bile more readily. This you can

get from vegatables, fruits and grains.

We certainly wish you the best in your endeavor to good health.

Dale

[Guest guest]

> I just read some regarding this procedure and find it to be

>questionable. However to someone desperate to lose a proportionate

>amount of weight in a very short length of time it would appear as a

>god send.

Well, maybe I shouldn't have brought that up since I don't want to

open up a can of worms as to whether or not the AGB is a good thing

to do -- only time will tell if it was the right decision for me. I

know there are a lot of potential downsides. I was just at a point

of desperation. I always seem to be on the " bleeding edge " of weight

loss fads...first Optifast (which gave me gallstones to begin with),

then phen/fen (which helped me to lose 120 lbs & then I gained 100

back when I had to quit taking it), and now the AGB.

The AGB is helping me reduce the quantity of food I eat, but not

necessarily increasing the quality. My typical breakfast is a

banana, Quaker oat squares & skim milk & coffee. I have that same

breakfast almost without fail every day.

My lunch is all over the map- some typical things I might eat

include: whole-wheat bread & peanut butter or part-skim mozzarella

cheese or garden burger or hummus, tomato or chicken noodle soup, a

few baby carrots, an apple or peach, yogurt, etc...

My typical dinner could include pasta or rice or potato with some

veggie (broccoli or salad or corn or green beans) and then I try to

get some sort of a protein such as chicken or egg or cheese or tofu.

In-between meals I usually have another fruit and drink water or

crystal light...I've been drinking a lot of crystal light lately.

The evening is my problematic time -- I crave sugar and fat and all

that bad stuff. To fulfill those cravings, I have been snacking on

Zesta saltines a lot, which is probably a bad choice...I even put

butter and honey on them at times. Yesterday I had about 1/2 a pint

of Ben & Jerry's low-fat yogurt cherry garcia...which is probably why

I had gained a couple of ounces on the scale this morning!! I

sometimes eat walnuts & raisins together to try to satisfy that

craving. I think that walnuts are a good source of 'healthy fat' so

I often sprinkle them on my salads along with a little bit of

dressing and parmesan cheese.

What do you think, is my diet the culprit here? I am also trying to

start exercising more ... I had really become sedentary in the last

year. I am now walking at least 30 minutes a day.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I suffered the same attacks immediately after GB surgery as before, due to

stones still in the bile duct. The liver flush gave me immediate relief, and

after two flushes, all symptoms were gone....that was almost one year ago. As I

understand it, the liver continues to make stones; just because you've removed

the GB, does not mean you've necessarily " solved " the problem-which is why you

do hear of people, like yourself, who have GB-like attacks after surgery.

I'm sorry that I can't comment about your second surgery and its possible

effects as far as your symptoms go. IMO, the liver flush is safe.

Adrienne

itsyvonneb wrote:I had a lap cholecystectomy 3 or 4 years ago. I have still

had pain

once in awhile in the same area as my gallbladder, and even a couple

of short (10 minutes) " attacks " . I just recently had laparoscopic

surgery to have an adjustable gastric band (AGB) implanted, and this

has reduced my food intake. I have noticed since then that I have

more pain in my gallbladder/bile duct area than I did before the AGB

surgery. I don't think it's a direct result of the AGB surgery,

because the part of the liver they move to get access to the stomach

is pretty far away from the bile duct. I think it may be more due to

the fact that I don't eat as much, because I notice that the pain

gets better or even goes away when I EAT. Is that strange, or what?

Should I go to my doctor and get a full battery of tests (e.g., liver

function blood tests, ultrasound, ERCP)? Should I try this " liver

flush " thing? I am afraid of doing anything that could be dangerous--

are there risks to a liver flush? Has anyone had a bad outcome from

doing one?

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Well, maybe I shouldn't have brought that up since I don't want to

open up a can of worms as to whether or not the AGB is a good thing

to do -- only time will tell if it was the right decision for me. I

know there are a lot of potential downsides. I was just at a point

of desperation. I always seem to be on the " bleeding edge " of weight

loss fads...first Optifast (which gave me gallstones to begin with),

then phen/fen (which helped me to lose 120 lbs & then I gained 100

back when I had to quit taking it), and now the AGB.

The AGB is helping me reduce the quantity of food I eat, but not

necessarily increasing the quality. My typical breakfast is a

banana, Quaker oat squares & skim milk & coffee. I have that same

breakfast almost without fail every day.

My lunch is all over the map- some typical things I might eat

include: whole-wheat bread & peanut butter or part-skim mozzarella

cheese or garden burger or hummus, tomato or chicken noodle soup, a

few baby carrots, an apple or peach, yogurt, etc...

My typical dinner could include pasta or rice or potato with some

veggie (broccoli or salad or corn or green beans) and then I try to

get some sort of a protein such as chicken or egg or cheese or tofu.

In-between meals I usually have another fruit and drink water or

crystal light...I've been drinking a lot of crystal light lately.

The evening is my problematic time -- I crave sugar and fat and all

that bad stuff. To fulfill those cravings, I have been snacking on

Zesta saltines a lot, which is probably a bad choice...I even put

butter and honey on them at times. Yesterday I had about 1/2 a pint

of Ben & Jerry's low-fat yogurt cherry garcia...which is probably why

I had gained a couple of ounces on the scale this morning!! I

sometimes eat walnuts & raisins together to try to satisfy that

craving. I think that walnuts are a good source of 'healthy fat' so

I often sprinkle them on my salads along with a little bit of

dressing and parmesan cheese.

What do you think, is my diet the culprit here? I am also trying to

start exercising more ... I had really become sedentary in the last

year. I am now walking at least 30 minutes a day.

Thanks,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

;

There are a few things that are not doing you much good. I know that sweets are

perhaps the hardest thing to overcome because often times the craving is because

of a potential candida problem or a need for quick energy from such a simple

carbohydrate. But considering that this is often indulged at night pretty well

negates the need for energy and will cause a storage problem. However, the one

thing you noted was how much Crystal Light you've been drinking. This drink uses

a chemical called aspartame as its sweetener and this is suspect for may

problems that people suffer from MS symptoms to heart problems. You may find

this website an interesting bit of study on the subject at hand here, and

especially in consideration as to weight problems as this may very well be one

of the causes of the sweets craving that you endure.

http://www.dorway.com/

The other food that you might think is doing you good by eating it is the skim

milk mozzarella cheese. I would suggest checking the package to see if you see

the words hydrogenated oil anywhere. If it doesn't and it has notes regarding

natural enzymes then it would be an OK product to consider eating. Otherwise I'd

be looking for a quality naturally made cheese to satisfy that craving for fats

as you will get a fat that is usable and digestible for the liver's ease.

The Zesta saltines may appear to be low in fat but the words " refined wheat

flour " and hydrogenated are certain to be found on the box from which they came

and although not as fatting the problem has to do with making the liver work

harder to not make it fatting.

You are eating a lot of processed foods, which includes the chicken noodle

soups, and as a result you are missing the real nutrition that your body is

actually craving. The problem is just getting past the point of fat desire by

eating a food regimen that will be void of hydrogenated and processed foods for

a time. If you were to make it around two to three weeks by eating just

vegetables, fruits and grains that you've purchased and prepared from scratch

chances are pretty good that the next time you tried to taste a piece of the

skim milk processed cheese the hydrogenated oil isn't going to be too

satisfying, French fries from a place like McD would taste disgustingly greasy.

Doing this doesn't mean you don't eat cooked foods and eat void of fats. It

really means that you eat lots of fats but of the type that will actually do

your liver the good that it needs and work with it instead of make a burden with

which it would have to deal.

Shoot, I smother my salads with olive oil and spices as well as various vinegars

and haven't suffered with an excessive weight gain for the last three years.

I've kept off a sumo gut for that length of time and I've been eating quite good

too. The trick is not a trick at all. It's a way of eating that simply avoids

all saturated animal fats, I cut off the juicy fat edging a nice lean steak, and

hydrogenated fats, those that are from deep frying or high heat cooking with

various oils like olive oil or peanut oil.

Another thing I take quite often too are digestive enzymes. I usually keep a

bottle in my truck as well as by my bed of the type that is from papaya or

pineapple to help make sure my digestive system is getting plenty of help from

live foods. Those are the naturally sweet type that can be chewed but I also

have another that I will take before eating some meals because I know there is

either a lot of protein or fa

It isn't an easy thing to do, to change habits, because there is the " Oh, well "

factor that just seems to keep creeping in to the desired picture of health. So,

don't think we're perfect on this end either because I too am guilty as regards

sweets but I do feel I have it in control to a point that I can find something

else to eat to make my body satisfied without the sugar. In fact often times a

protein mix will take care of that desire in very short order and if I have to

do it I have either maple syrup or honey with some natural yogurt instead of a

refined sugar.

Dale