Re: poss blocked bile duct and flushing

March 20, 2003

Colleen - How did you know you had a large gallstone if you didn't experience

any pain? Also, what foods/supplements did you eat/take? I really want to

get back to normal. Thanks for responding. ~Anne~

March 20, 2003

Hi Anne, I am new to the gall bladder problem . Recently I had a blockage

of the ducts myself, which cause d jaundice and severe itching of my

skin. I was told I needed GB surgery immediately, or else my liver would

get infected, which actually did and they could not operate on me. But

they did an endoscopy on me, which got rid of some sludge in my ducts, my

itching is gone and my skin is almost back to normal. I do not know if

this is of any help, but I do feel a lot better and now I am

reconsidering my surgery and looking into flushes. ERika

March 20, 2003

Don't let the yellow color stop you. I fought that for 7-8 months with flushes,

diet and supplements, before getting back to normal. I don't know what to tell

you about the pain as I rarely experience any, even though I have a large stone

in my gallbladder.

Colleen K.

----- Original Message -----

From: kblomrich@...

gallstones

Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 4:38 AM

Subject: poss blocked bile duct and flushing

Can anyone give advice? I believe that I have a blockage in the bile duct.

What leads me to think this is a constant dull ache under the right ribcage,

plus for the last few months my bowel movements have been yellowish in color,

leaving a yellow mustard-like stain on the paper. Would it be safe to try

the liver flush under these circumstances? Could it shift the blockage? I

don't want to end up in the emergency room, but I would like to save my GB.

Has anyone else been through this? Any advice on what I can do to cure this?

~Anne~

March 21, 2003

Colleen - is your stone still present? Have you got rid of the yellow color?

From the info I can gather on the internet, I think the color is a result of

bile backing up into the intestines instead of being processed as should. I

am worried that I'll end up with jaundice and a diseased liver. Did you find

the liver flushes at all painful? Sorry for the barrage of questions, but I

want to do what I can before I have to resort to hospital treatment. ~Anne~

March 21, 2003

Dear Anne,

I had severe indigestion symptoms. Of course, numerous doctors, including a

gastroenterologist, shrugged their shoulders and said it was just reflux. But

Dara Dietz, an herbalist who owns H.E.A.L. Marketplace told me she was sure it

was my gallbladder. Finally, after a really severe three day attack about 9

months ago a less dense (but still quite arrogant) doctor decided it was in

fact, my gallbladder. He had an ultrasound done which showed a 1 " stone. Of

course he insisted that the only solution was having the gallbladder removed. He

claimed (after I told him no thank you on the surgery and I was going to try the

flushes) that it was impossible for that large a stone to pass through the very

small duct. And if it did get through the duct (notice how he contradicted

himself, lol) one would then suffer from " ileus " . I am not sure what this is. I

think it has something to do with a stone getting lodged in the intestine? I

have yet to hear of an actual case of this, but I suppose it has happened once

or twice in history so they keep it in their arsenal of scare tactics, lol.

I take a combination of supplements. Some I take daily, some I alternate with

other things. Some I take when symptoms flair up. I do not take all these things

all the time. But here is a list of things I use/have used for my

liver/gallbladder and associated digestive problems: Coptis,Curcuma, Gold Goin

Grass, Chinese Bitters (this is Chang's program), Livatone/Livatone Plus

(Dr. Cabot's Program) Beta TCP, Stone Free, Hepastat, Acidophilus, Lecithin,

fish oil, Liver/Gallbladder formula (Dr. Schulze Program) Chanca Piedra,

CandiBactin AR. I take Grapefruit Seed Extract and Dr. Schulze Digestive Tonic

(though I get mine from Dara because hers seemed to work better for me and was

cheaper to boot) to help with actual digestive problems. I take Cayenne and

Lobelia tincture if I get a full blown attack, because the Cayenne stops the

severe circulatory/heart effects I get with my attacks, and the Lobelia helps

relax things. I also use Dr. Schulze intestinal cleanse program from time to

time. I am going to begin taking Malic Acid capsules because I don't think I can

get around to consuming enough apple juice to provide the needed amount. We

homeschool, and I do not have the luxury of time alone to tend to my needs. I

have to work it in around my children's needs.

As for foods, I try to juice when I can, eat fresh fruit and vegs. No particular

food seems to trigger symptoms except possibly turkey though I am not sure about

that yet. I try to watch fat but it seems that too much sugar seems to trigger

problems for me, more so than fat even. I might have a bit of a yeast overgrowth

problem as well. When I bake/cook I use Stevia to replace at least part of the

sugar in the recipe. We have our own chickens and goat so I eat free-range eggs

on occasion and drink raw goat milk which I mix with rice milk. If I'm careful

with my diet and take my supplements I feel pretty good. If I fall off the wagon

on my diet for an extended period, the misery will begin. I would very much like

to try Dr. Cabot's diet, but again the homeschooling makes it a bit difficult

right now. I hope to get better organized in the future so I can try it.

What you need to do is to look up information on different programs and

supplements and decide which you think would help YOU. We are all different.

What works for one person may not necessarily be what another person needs. As

far as the " color " problem you're having, the first thing that helped with that

for me was doing Chang's program. The Beta TCP that I used after that,

also helped. The Chanca Piedra really helped. But I do not want to stay on that

particular product for an extended period of time so I take it off and on.

I hope this helps a little. I remember being really scared when I found out I

had that big a stone. I was sure I was going to die any minute. But I was

equally sure I was not going to have my gallbladder out. I spent a lot of time

on the phone in a panic with poor Dara. That was before I found this list. You

will learn a lot from internet research and by reading the many good posts on

this list, especially from the " vets " such as Dale and . These are the

resources I have used to put my program together.

Good Luck and God Bless!

Colleen K.

----- Original Message -----

From: kblomrich@...

gallstones

Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:34 AM

Subject: Re: poss blocked bile duct and flushing

Colleen - How did you know you had a large gallstone if you didn't experience

any pain? Also, what foods/supplements did you eat/take? I really want to

get back to normal. Thanks for responding. ~Anne~

March 21, 2003

Dear Anne,

Yes, I still have the stone. I am hoping to get an ultrasound sometime in the

next few months to check the size. No, the flushes were not painful at all. Like

everyone says, the worst part is usually the nausea, for those that experience

it. Or the diarrhea from the Epsom Salts. I have found that the Epsom Salts do

not work for me. No matter how small a dosage I take I am up all night with the

diarrhea and almost no stones pass. But if I use Dr. Schulze's method without

the ES, I pass many stones. I think I am going to stick with that one.

I understand your concerns about jaundice. I used to check my eyes fairly often

to see if there was any yellow. I have never had yellow eyes or skin, that I

know of. Everyone is different and perhaps there is a possibility of these

things happening to you. But from what I have read on this list, those that have

had jaundice or other serious problems with their liver, have only healed them

with the methods shared here (flushes, diet, supplements). I do not recall

anyone saying that these methods have CAUSED liver problems, if done properly.

I have returned, for the most part, to normal color. Every so often, when I have

an attack, things will turn yellow for a few days but then goes back to normal.

Your best bet right now, if you haven't already, is to change your diet

beginning today. That's a positive step you can take right now towards better

liver/gallbladder health. Even while you're pondering whether to do a flush or

what supplements to take, you can change your diet. God is ultimately in control

of our health, but if He wishes to make it better He usually requires our

cooperation. The sooner you can let go of your fear and start on the road to

better health, the better you will feel. If you have not seen a doctor and you

think that you need to, that is certainly an option. But keep in mind they

generally have only three solutions to health problems: slash,burn or poison.

With gallbladders they prefer the slash method (surgery), and that's what most

of us have been told to do. I am blessed to have really good chiropractors who

handle our health care. It's extremely rare anymore for my children or myself to

go to the " doctor " or take any prescription or OTC meds, thanks to our knowledge

of Natural medicine and our Chiropractors' help (they have told me by the way,

to keep my gallbladder if at all possible, and they hand out flush recipes).

Unfortunately my husband has not been able to wean himself totally off

prescriptions or OTC meds, but he's getting better and trusting the natural way

more.

We've all been where you're at. Christians like to say " do the next thing " when

pondering how to follow God's will in their life. In this case, if you take a

first small step towards natural health, whatever you choose it to be, you'll

find the next, perhaps bigger steps, that much easier to take.

AMDG,

Colleen K.

----- Original Message -----

From: kblomrich@...

gallstones

Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 3:27 AM

Subject: Re: poss blocked bile duct and flushing

Colleen - is your stone still present? Have you got rid of the yellow color?

From the info I can gather on the internet, I think the color is a result of

bile backing up into the intestines instead of being processed as should. I

am worried that I'll end up with jaundice and a diseased liver. Did you find

the liver flushes at all painful? Sorry for the barrage of questions, but I

want to do what I can before I have to resort to hospital treatment. ~Anne~

March 22, 2003

Thanks for taking the time to respond Colleen.

2 weeks ago I did what you suggested, and have started watching very

carefully what I eat. Mostly raw fruit & veg, lots of mineral water, juice,

a little fish and red meat, a small handful of pumpkin seeds each morning

(I've read these are very good for you). No wheat, sugar, dairy. Started

back at the gym 4 x week, plus walk my dog 2 miles every day (although the

walking I have been doing for years). Have dropped a little weight (good!)

but still the yellow persists. For some reason this is really worrying me.

Oh well, maybe I haven't given it enough time. Am going to try flush next

weekend, was going to tonight but husband has made plans for us to go out.

Regards, ~Anne~

March 23, 2003

Greetings all,

I've been following this group for a while and just

thought I'd share my recent experience. In the past,

I've tried various flushes and seemed to pass some

stones and maybe sludge, but have felt ill with the

stones for various months now.

Months ago, after complaining of intense pain (abdomen

and back---waking up in the mid of night)and nausea,

ultrasound confirmed that I had many stones, some

being fairly large. My doctor's office took it's sweet

time referring me to a specialist but insisted that I

should have the GB removed. Well, last Friday, I don't

think I ate anything outstanding but I began to

experience one of the worst attacks I've had and it

wouldn't go away after a few hours like usual, even

after ingesting apple cider vinegar w/water and an

ibuprofen. In fact, the pain lasted for several days

and was so bad I had difficulty breathing, didn't know

what to do w/myself and couldn't sleep. It seemed like

food was not moving anywhere and was just stuck in my

system. Also, it felt like I had a lot of air in my

upper abdomen and I couldn't release it. It was a very

uncomfortable feeling, culminating in eventual

vomiting.....AND, my urine had become very intensely

yellow. I went to Urgent Care that weekend and they

just told me to watch what I eat and gave me some

Vicodin. It helped for a little while but not

much.....called in sick Monday and by Tuesday, I was

praying for death. I couldn't stand it anymore and

went to the ER, A BIG STEP for me. At first they told

me, " well, if you have stones, you'll have pain " but

when I insisted something else was going on, they did

another u/s and found that a couple of stones were

lodged in my bile ducts and as a result, I had

developed pancreatitis. Also, I was dehydrated. They

admitted me and I spent 3 days on IV to allow the

pancreas to normalize before they would do anything

else. Then, Thursday, they went in by endoscope to

remove the stones from the bile ducts but the stones

had somehow already passed. Next day, they removed my

GB. I am sore but it in no way compares to the pain

I've endured w/the stones. I hope that I see continued

improvement and won't have to worry about this pain

again. Just thought I'd share but I hope that no

matter what any of you may decide, whether to keep the

GB or not, that you continue on the path of wellness

and don't have to live with pain. I completely

understand the agony of it and wouldn't wish it on my

worst enemy (well, if I had one! ) Anyways, good

luck to all of you and I will continue to stay with

you and learn and grow with the information I find

here. Well wishes to all.....

--- kblomrich@... wrote:

> Thanks for taking the time to respond Colleen.

>

> 2 weeks ago I did what you suggested, and have

> started watching very

> carefully what I eat. Mostly raw fruit & veg, lots

> of mineral water, juice,

> a little fish and red meat, a small handful of

> pumpkin seeds each morning

> (I've read these are very good for you). No wheat,

> sugar, dairy. Started

> back at the gym 4 x week, plus walk my dog 2 miles

> every day (although the

> walking I have been doing for years). Have dropped

> a little weight (good!)

> but still the yellow persists. For some reason this

> is really worrying me.

> Oh well, maybe I haven't given it enough time. Am

> going to try flush next

> weekend, was going to tonight but husband has made

> plans for us to go out.

>

> Regards, ~Anne~

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

March 23, 2003

Dear ,

Sorry to hear of your recent painful experience and hope that you're

well on your way to recovery.

~Suzanne

> Then, Thursday, they went in by endoscope to

> remove the stones from the bile ducts but the stones

> had somehow already passed. Next day, they removed my

> GB. I am sore but it in no way compares to the pain

> I've endured w/the stones. I hope that I see continued

> improvement and won't have to worry about this pain

> again. Just thought I'd share but I hope that no

> matter what any of you may decide, whether to keep the

> GB or not, that you continue on the path of wellness

> and don't have to live with pain. I completely

> understand the agony of it and wouldn't wish it on my

> worst enemy (well, if I had one! ) Anyways, good

> luck to all of you and I will continue to stay with

> you and learn and grow with the information I find

> here. Well wishes to all.....

>

March 23, 2003

Sounds like you are on the right road, Anne. Start trying different

liver/gallbladder supplements and see which ones help with the color. Flushes in

and of themselves may not do it, at least they didn't for me. In fact when I do

a flush I often get the yellow back, but then things right themselves in a day

or two. But the supplements helped me the most. And it took time; several months

as a matter of fact, for things to really improve. It may not take that long for

you if you don't have any large stones.

Colleen

----- Original Message -----

From: kblomrich@...

gallstones

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 3:47 AM