Re: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

October 8, 2009

Well the problem with the diet induced weight loss is that it happened over a

year ago and I have recovered and gained the weight back over 7 months ago.

Something is not returning to normal. Overall I am wondering does it look like I

have okay pituitary function?

________________________________

From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...>

Sent: Wed, October 7, 2009 10:36:44 PM

Subject: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

Your LH is quite low ( & your T is painfully low). As you wrote, going on a diet

could have reduced your hormone production. Reduced production of reproductive

hormones and gonadotropins like LH has been found to occur in 1) malnutrition or

starvation, as well as 2) caloric restriction studies on animals.

AACE for hypogonadism would recommend an MRI if the individual had 1) low T & 2)

low LH & FSH 3) without some other known cause which can temporarily cause low

T, such as dieting, illness, etc. I would agree that you probably don't merit an

MRI unless these results are basically unchanged or worsened after your diet.

Fix that diet, retest, and then see what your results are..

~Xian

>

> I don't beleive a MRI of the pituitary is necessary I would say it would be if

I hadn't been normal up until diet induced weight loss. Being 16 I don't know

how a tumor could arise and also even if my levels show pitutary problem. Input

would be nice

> T4 (Free) 1.04 (0.89-1.76)

> TSH 1.17 (.35-5.50)

> LH 2.2 (1.5-9.3)

> Testosterone 96.7 (241-827)

> Normal CBC and Comp Metabolic

> The only other thing the Dr. noticed that was abnormal was a low Hemoglobin

with normal ferratin, Iron and TIBC.

> Hemoglobin 11.9 (13.0-16.0)

> RBC 3.97 (4.70-6.10)

> Hematocrit 34.5 (39-50)

> IGF-1- 243 range (257-601)

> ACTH 23 pg/ml normal with cortisol

>

October 8, 2009

This is my point he fixed his diet some time ago I have seen low T in younger

men that over did it in the gym woking out and going on a poor diet to get % of

body fat down. They ended up with low testosterone do to the lack of

Cholesterol we need this to make hormones and there Adrenals were over worked do

to the stress on them from that poor diet and over doing it in the gym. He did

a 3x's in a day Cortisol Saliva test that to me looks like his Adrenals are over

worked or he has Adreanl Fatigue.

The following labs look low in the morning and low at bedtime. Normal people in

the morning have the highest levels up near the top of the range.

========================================================================

Re: Matt O'Brien Re: Digest Number 3863

Cortisol Morning 17.1 (5.1-40.2)

Cortisol Noon 7.8 (2.1-15.7)

Cortisol Night <0.3 (0.2-9.2)

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...>

> Subject: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

>

> Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 11:36 PM

> Your LH is quite low ( & your T is

> painfully low). As you wrote, going on a diet could

> have reduced your hormone production. Reduced

> production of reproductive hormones and gonadotropins like

> LH has been found to occur in 1) malnutrition or starvation,

> as well as 2) caloric restriction studies on animals.

>

> AACE for hypogonadism would recommend an MRI if the

> individual had 1) low T & 2) low LH & FSH 3) without

> some other known cause which can temporarily cause low T,

> such as dieting, illness, etc. I would agree that you

> probably don't merit an MRI unless these results are

> basically unchanged or worsened after your diet.

>

> Fix that diet, retest, and then see what your results are.

> ~Xian

>

> >

> > I don't beleive a MRI of the pituitary is necessary I

> would say it would be if I hadn't been normal up until diet

> induced weight loss. Being 16 I don't know how a tumor could

> arise and also even if my levels show pitutary problem.

> Input would be nice

> > T4 (Free) 1.04 (0.89-1.76)

> > TSH 1.17 (.35-5.50)

> > LH 2.2 (1.5-9.3)

> > Testosterone 96.7 (241-827)

> > Normal CBC and Comp Metabolic

> > The only other thing the Dr. noticed that was abnormal

> was a low Hemoglobin with normal ferratin, Iron and TIBC.

> > Hemoglobin 11.9 (13.0-16.0)

> > RBC 3.97 (4.70-6.10)

> > Hematocrit 34.5 (39-50)

> > IGF-1- 243 range (257-601)

> > ACTH 23 pg/ml normal with cortisol

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

October 8, 2009

On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 05:15:44 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>

>Well the problem with the diet induced weight loss is that it happened over a

year ago and I have recovered and gained the weight back over 7 months ago.

Something is not returning to normal. Overall I am wondering does it look like I

have okay pituitary function?

WIth low T, low FSH, LH and IGF it would seem not.

October 8, 2009

On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 03:36:44 -0000, you wrote:

>Your LH is quite low ( & your T is painfully low). As you wrote, going on a

diet could have reduced your hormone production. Reduced production of

reproductive hormones and gonadotropins like LH has been found to occur in 1)

malnutrition or starvation, as well as 2) caloric restriction studies on

animals.

>

>AACE for hypogonadism would recommend an MRI if the individual had 1) low T &

2) low LH & FSH 3) without some other known cause which can temporarily cause

low T, such as dieting, illness, etc. I would agree that you probably don't

merit an MRI unless these results are basically unchanged or worsened after your

diet.

A prolactin test would also help. Prolactinomas are the main reason to

order MRI in low T cases.

October 8, 2009

That really is what it seems like but I have normal cortisol, androstendione,

and DHEA levels which confuses me

Cortisol 15 ug/dl 4:00 range 4..0-16

DHEA 500 ng/dl range 250-900

androstendione 82 ng/dl range 33-192

________________________________

From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 1:17:29 PM

Subject: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

Your case is not that difficult. It stems from diet induced stress which

eventually end up burning out your adrenals. Which probably when tested would

show on the low end of normal which is not healthy. I would look at getting all

the building blocks in the proper ratio before even venturing on TRT which your

endo if not has ruled out primary vs secondary would easily loose his licencse

if he prescribe TRT to you.

>

> >

> >Well the problem with the diet induced weight loss is that it happened over a

year ago and I have recovered and gained the weight back over 7 months ago.

Something is not returning to normal. Overall I am wondering does it look like I

have okay pituitary function?

>

> WIth low T, low FSH, LH and IGF it would seem not.

>

October 8, 2009

I just don't want to be hypopituitary

________________________________

From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 6:23:11 PM

Subject: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

You tell me that normal = healthy. Look at the general population out there. ITs

going to hell in a handbasket. you start out fine but burn it off during the day

time. Think of it as gas tank. You start with fuel tank in the morning, but you

burn it off during the day with out making a pit stop eventually you run low.

> >

> > >

> > >Well the problem with the diet induced weight loss is that it happened over

a year ago and I have recovered and gained the weight back over 7 months ago.

Something is not returning to normal. Overall I am wondering does it look like I

have okay pituitary function?

> >

> > WIth low T, low FSH, LH and IGF it would seem not.

> >

>

October 9, 2009

Are prolactinomas the most common pituitary tumor?

________________________________

From: colinpaulturner <colinpaulturner@...>

Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 6:40:12 PM

Subject: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

> A prolactin test would also help. Prolactinomas are the main reason to

> order MRI in low T cases.

>

Any endocrine specialist worth his or her salt would order an MRI in this

particular case, given that it could stem from a whole host of pituitary-based

problems. I had high prolactin but it turned out to be empty sella syndrome

rather than a prolactinoma. The guy in question - Matt, I think - should insist

on an MRI to rule out all of these potential problems.

October 9, 2009

* 3 scrambled eggs (twice a week)

* Bagel with peanut butter and honey

* cereal (Cheerios or Raisin Bran)

* 2 packs of oatmeal with water

Snack:

* Banana

* Yogurt

Lunch:

* 2 wholegrain sandwiches with tuna and mayonnaise

Snack:

* Protein shake

* Oatmeal bar

Dinner:

* Different every day, usually pasta or steak

Snack:

* Bagel

* Cottage cheese

* Weight gainer shake before bed

________________________________

From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...>

Sent: Fri, October 9, 2009 12:14:22 AM

Subject: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

Right on Retro- I was about to post that same point.

~Xian

>

> >Your LH is quite low ( & your T is painfully low). As you wrote, going on a

diet could have reduced your hormone production. Reduced production of

reproductive hormones and gonadotropins like LH has been found to occur in 1)

malnutrition or starvation, as well as 2) caloric restriction studies on

animals.

> >

> >AACE for hypogonadism would recommend an MRI if the individual had 1) low T &

2) low LH & FSH 3) without some other known cause which can temporarily cause

low T, such as dieting, illness, etc. I would agree that you probably don't

merit an MRI unless these results are basically unchanged or worsened after your

diet.

>

> A prolactin test would also help. Prolactinomas are the main reason to

> order MRI in low T cases.

>

October 9, 2009

Well maybe your Dr. feels 15 for cortisol is OK because your in the low normal

range but if you did this test in the morning your low and your 3x's in a day

saliva test you posted showed your low in the morning. Your adrenals are not

working right this happens when they get stressed or over worked.

I hate to say this but some times I think I am wasting my time with you your

posting the same things over and over again all over the web. We are giving you

info and links to read but it looks to me like your not reading them.

Here is a link to a thread about Adrenal problems and testing it and what labs

look like.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=8562

I am giving you this link again about Adrenal Fatigue.

http://www.tmuscle.com/article/diet_and_nutrition/adrenal_fatigue_101 & cr=dietAnd\

Nutrition

Your don't have low Testosterone and a low LH and FSH with good levels of

Estradiol and not have a Pituitary Problem be it a tumor of head injury these

are the biggest things to cause a Pituitary to not work right.

Your Dr. might have told you your Cortisol levels are fine because your in the

normal range this is not true your low normal. He is not up on this and is only

looking to see if you have the extreme " 's/Adrenal Insufficiency " or

" Cushing " . Having been on that diet you were on will crash your Adrenals this

can't make enough Cortisol they are over worked.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Matt Obrien <mattobrien71@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

>

> Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 6:07 PM

>

> That really is what it seems like but I have normal

> cortisol, androstendione, and DHEA levels which confuses me

> Cortisol 15 ug/dl 4:00 range 4..0-16

> DHEA 500 ng/dl range 250-900

> androstendione 82 ng/dl range 33-192

>

> ________________________________

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

>

> Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 1:17:29 PM

> Subject: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

>

> Your case is not that difficult. It stems from diet induced

> stress which eventually end up burning out your adrenals.

> Which probably when tested would show on the low end of

> normal which is not healthy. I would look at getting all the

> building blocks in the proper ratio before even venturing on

> TRT which your endo if not has ruled out primary vs

> secondary would easily loose his licencse if he prescribe

> TRT to you.

>

> >

> > >

> > >Well the problem with the diet induced weight loss

> is that it happened over a year ago and I have recovered and

> gained the weight back over 7 months ago. Something is not

> returning to normal. Overall I am wondering does it look

> like I have okay pituitary function?

> >

> > WIth low T, low FSH, LH and IGF it would seem not.

> >

>

October 9, 2009

I don't what you to be Hypopituitary either I am Hypopituitary and it's not an

easy life. But you need to know if your are so you can get the right treatment.

I am up on Pituitary Problems in all the yrs 23 of them not one Dr. I seen knew

I had this problem so I suffered not feeling 100% for all them yrs. I figured

this out my self all I did was to get my Dr. to put me on HCG. I was on

Testosterone meds for 23 yrs adding HCG 500 IU's 3x's a week my Total

Testosterone levels doubled I went from 600 to 1200 on my labs. In all them yrs

Dr.'s told me I was Primary meaning my Testis don't work right. I asked my Dr.

how is this possable he told me my Adrenals must have made the Testosterone. I

did some research on this and yes your adrenals do make some testosterone but

not that much they make a little.

So you see if you don't know you are Hypopituitary you will not get a Dr. to

treat the other homones the Pituitary has control over. Today 27 yrs. later

from the day I got sick I now treat my low Testosterone, Cortisol, Thyroid,

Ferritin, Iron, and Aldosterone levels and feel great. Not all people have this

hormones low do to a bad Pituitary most just need Testosterone.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Matt Obrien <mattobrien71@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

>

> Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:34 PM

> I just don't want to be

> hypopituitary

>

> ________________________________

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

>

> Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 6:23:11 PM

> Subject: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

>

> You tell me that normal = healthy. Look at the general

> population out there. ITs going to hell in a handbasket. you

> start out fine but burn it off during the day time. Think of

> it as gas tank. You start with fuel tank in the morning, but

> you burn it off during the day with out making a pit stop

> eventually you run low.

>

> > >

> > > >

> > > >Well the problem with the diet induced weight

> loss is that it happened over a year ago and I have

> recovered and gained the weight back over 7 months ago.

> Something is not returning to normal. Overall I am wondering

> does it look like I have okay pituitary function?

> > >

> > > WIth low T, low FSH, LH and IGF it would seem

> not.

> > >

> >

October 9, 2009

I have known Hard for yrs and in a way yes he is an Expert from what he has been

through his self much like my self and he will be a Dr. of Naturopathic Medicine

very soon and the MD. he works this is one of the best Dr.s in the area.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: colinpaulturner <colinpaulturner@...>

> Subject: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

>

> Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:34 PM

>

> >

> > Your case is not that difficult. It stems from

> diet induced stress which eventually end up burning out your

> adrenals.

>

> How do you know? Are you a specialist?

>

> ------------------------------------

>

October 9, 2009

I'm not sure at my levels I have a pituitary problem. Did you have a GnRH

stimulation test or an MRI to determine your hypopituitarism.

________________________________

From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

Sent: Friday, October 9, 2009 9:31:02 AM

Subject: Re: Re: I don't think there is a tumor