Re: Help with suggestions and understanding

April 13, 2009

When most Dr.'s start men on gels they don't test them in 2 weeks to see if

there levels are high enough. Also doing Testosterone meds drives up some men's

estradiol E2 levels when this happens he will lose his libido and get ED. All

this needs to be tested. It's best to try to get up into the upper 1/3 of his

labs range for Total T and Free T and this go by how he is feeling. Keeping his

E2 down to about 30.

Go www.allthingsmale.com and on the left hit Pub. and read TRT: A Recipe for

Success. Dr. puts this out there free for him and his DR. Dr. in one

of the best loc. in MI. a lot of men drive or fly out to see him he only needs

to see him once then he can treat and test him by Email of Phone. See if his

Dr. will work with Dr. over the phone he also will do this.

Until he gets tuned up he will not feel good.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <zoozin@...>

> Subject: Help with suggestions and understanding

>

> Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 1:21 PM

> Hello everyone...I joined this group on behalf of my

> boyfriend who has been diagnosed with hypogonadism post

> testicular cancer. He recently switched from biweekly T

> injections to the daily gel. I cannot believe what a mess

> he has become. His energy comes in spurts, he's

> forgetful, unemotional, complains of severe headaches,

> sometimes he cannot get out of bed and flails to find a

> comfortable spot. He's angry and agitated and

> depressed. He is not like this all the time but he is

> sicker more often than not. His libido is at zero and

> sometimes I take it personal as just kissing me has become a

> chore. Anyways, this is not about me because I am in it for

> the long haul...I just want to see him get better. I cannot

> believe that doctors allow people to suffer this long

> without making it a mission to help you guys. I don't

> think the proper levels are being checked and I certainly

> feel that way too much time elapses in between appointments.

> Other than checking testosterone levels, what else should

> be being checked and monitored?? And has anyone ever been in

> this funk where you just don't want to live anymore and

> finally discovered the secret formula to make everything all

> better?? Please advise...love to you all.

>

> ------------------------------------

>

April 13, 2009

HI ,

This is a familiar story. I suspect they have prescribed the minimum dose of

gel, which sounds like it isn’t enough.

When I had this problem, I experimented with the dosing then told my doctor

what made me feel ok.

I did that by increasing to 1 ½ packs of gel a day, which helped.

There are alternatives around. Guys in this group advocate using HCG in

addition to Testosterone. For me, it is a matter of trying to get the TRT

right before opting for other meds too.

Gels in some men cause excess Estrogen to be made. It is worth checking.

As to blood tests. He should get Serum testosterone, LH FSH, SHBG Prolactin

and Estradiol.

You don’t say where you are, but if you are in the US, there should be no

problem getting these tests.

I hope it helps,

Nick

Nick O'Hara

Author, The Testosterone Deficiency Centre (www.androids.org.uk)

Associate Editor The Testicular Cancer Resource Center (tcrc.acor.org)

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of

Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:22 PM

Subject: Help with suggestions and understanding

Hello everyone...I joined this group on behalf of my boyfriend who has been

diagnosed with hypogonadism post testicular cancer. He recently switched

from biweekly T injections to the daily gel. I cannot believe what a mess he

has become. His energy comes in spurts, he's forgetful, unemotional,

complains of severe headaches, sometimes he cannot get out of bed and flails

to find a comfortable spot. He's angry and agitated and depressed. He is not

like this all the time but he is sicker more often than not. His libido is

at zero and sometimes I take it personal as just kissing me has become a

chore. Anyways, this is not about me because I am in it for the long

haul...I just want to see him get better. I cannot believe that doctors

allow people to suffer this long without making it a mission to help you

guys. I don't think the proper levels are being checked and I certainly feel

that way too much time elapses in between appointments. Other than checking

testosterone levels, what else should be being checked and monitored?? And

has anyone ever been in this funk where you just don't want to live anymore

and finally discovered the secret formula to make everything all better??

Please advise...love to you all.

April 13, 2009

Welcome. Please give the T the chance to be effective. If he has mood changes

that is affecting his well-being, possibly he should also see a psychotherapist

that can script an antidepressant until he can get balance again.

There are over the counter stuff for overall well-being that could help him.

Make sure he is receiving the proper care with a trained Endo professional that

specializes in hypogandism or low T. Most Endo's deal with diabetes which is

where the money and patients are.

Until his T levels balance, he could be scripted a sexual medication for

erection difficulties. Right now, it seems its a waiting game until his body can

balance from such a trauma of cancer.

If as his wife must be patient, supportive, and loving. Please don't blame him

or take offense during these times. His actions are biologically based. If he is

abusive, cheating, or lying that is different and not biological.

Make sure he is receiving the proper care, continue to research and have him as

well, and be patient.

April 14, 2009

>

> Hello everyone...I joined this group on behalf of my boyfriend who has been

diagnosed with hypogonadism post testicular cancer. He recently switched from

biweekly T injections to the daily gel. I cannot believe what a mess he has

become. His energy comes in spurts, he's forgetful, unemotional, complains of

severe headaches, sometimes he cannot get out of bed and flails to find a

comfortable spot. He's angry and agitated and depressed. He is not like this

all the time but he is sicker more often than not. His libido is at zero and

sometimes I take it personal as just kissing me has become a chore. Anyways,

this is not about me because I am in it for the long haul...I just want to see

him get better. I cannot believe that doctors allow people to suffer this long

without making it a mission to help you guys. I don't think the proper levels

are being checked and I certainly feel that way too much time elapses in between

appointments. Other than checking testosterone levels, what else should be

being checked and monitored?? And has anyone ever been in this funk where you

just don't want to live anymore and finally discovered the secret formula to

make everything all better?? Please advise...love to you all.

>

What an ordeal for both of you. It's good that your boyfriend has a helper like

you.

You mentioned his doctor switched him from biweekly injections to Androgel. I'm

curious as to why. His doc could have done more frequent injections (weekly,

every 3 days, etc.) of smaller amounts of T each time. This prevents the

" roller coaster " effect from the huge increase & decrease (as well as the

excessive estrogen) from injecting every 2 weeks. Injections tend to produce

higher testosterone levels than Androgel- which may be the solution if Androgel

isn't supplying enough (regardless of how many packs are used).

Nick mentioned some good tests to get like total testosterone & estradiol, but I

don't think LH or FSH would be that helpful here since your boyfriend had

testicular cancer. FSH & LH are used to check why the testes aren't producing

enough testosterone, but in his case it's most likely primary hypogonadism, not

secondary. (If 1) he has a dysfunctional testis or testes, or 2) one or more

isn't there any longer, hCG won't help increase testosterone production.)

Another test (which can be done without him coming off Androgel) includes

dihydrotestosterone (DHT). The results from total ( & free, if possible)

testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, & estradiol should help point to what needs

to be adjusted. You can order these for yourselves from

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Health-Well-Being/Health-23000-1/Blood-T\

ests.htm or privatemdlabs.com instead of waiting for a doctor's appt to get lab

requisitions (plus most docs don't request DHT or estradiol for men anyway).

High estradiol/low T can make one feel lousy. Dialing them in makes a huge

difference.

~Xian

April 14, 2009

Thanks, UU. Your point is taken, but I think & her bf might profit from

preliminary action now & then making adjustments in light of objective lab

information.

I agree with waiting, when waiting is necessary. Too often, doctors effectively

make that decision by posting appointments too far in the future, when regular

visits are necessary- just look at how long it takes to be a second visit with

an endo in the US. Average wait time is 2-3 months. This is unacceptable for

people with chronic diseases/hormonal deficiencies. Waiting, whether it is

planned or just happens to occur, is itself a risk. Without adjustment, someone

may not improve or stay the same- sometimes people get worse. (Getting worse-

psychologically & /or physically- is the most expensive route.) I take it

seriously when someone says they can't get out of bed. & I've worked with

individuals with endocrine disorders who are frankly non-functional & borderline

unable to help themselves until they either get an antidepressant or fix their

hormones.

, I wrote that you & your bf might get the quickest & best resolution to

this problem. If you order tests for yourself, you can get the results in about

a week. Then you can be ready with information to present the doc & ask/request

changes if necessary. I don't know how soon you can get an appt. with your bf's

doctor nor that he will grant requisitions for everything you want tested,

including important hormones like DHT & estradiol. Then there's the waiting

time till the next appointment.

Regarding cost & medical insurance, Androgel is itself expensive. Hopefully,

your insurance is covering this. Compare this to the cost of testing

testosterone, DHT, & estradiol for $175 altogether. Very little interpreting

skills required since Life Extension has posted optimal ranges of those hormones

for anyone to see (http://www.lef.org/protocols/appendix/blood_testing_03.htm

- check estradiol).

The important thing is that you & your bf have options & information to make the

best decision with your doctor, rather than being left to the decision your

doctor chooses for you. It should be a team effort.

If I've written more information than you wanted, I apologize.

~Xian

>

> >

>

> > Hello everyone...I joined this group on behalf of my boyfriend who has been